From anothy.9srv.net!inferno Thu Apr 8 21:01:50 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Thu Apr 8 21:01:50 BST 2004 Received: from [81.136.200.254] ([81.136.200.254]) by 9srv.net; Thu Apr 8 15:56:38 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Very exciting! (and comment on driver development) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:56:33 +0100 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Oh, now this is very exciting. Maybe the list server here will like me better than the topica one! Below is the content of email I sent individually about the "how to develop inferno drivers" question. Included in case it's useful to someone. Essentially what a driver needs to do is provide code for a small handful of entry points. Pick a smallish driver (just do wc on dev*.c in one of the os/* directories) and look for the devtab structure (typically near or at the end of the file). About 90% (maybe more) of getting a driver into the kernel is just implementing code for those ~15 entry points. Of course, there's still the hard part of writing the bit-fiddling code to make the hardware in question actually *do* something, as others have pointed out, but that's true everywhere, obviously. If you've already done that, the code for interfacing to the rest of the kernel and for providing the file system is fairly straight-forward. I'm no kernel hacker, but Inferno (and Plan 9) is the only system i'm able to read and understand drivers for, and make changes to that don't blow things up. There also exist stub functions for many of those entry points if you don't actually want/need that entry point to do anything. For example, if "create" shouldn't do anything in the file tree your driver serves, you can just use "devcreate" rather than writing your own code. devrtc.c is a reasonably small and self-contained driver for reference purposes. Feel free (encouraged!) to post any of this message you find useful back to the list. some guy from jersey. $B%"(B From rog Thu Apr 8 21:31:27 BST 2004 remote from presto To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com CC: inferno@topica.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Very exciting! (and comment on driver development) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 21:31:27 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hey anothy! swift off the mark... anyway, in case anyone else is here, i'll give my 2ยข on inferno device drivers... the most important bit starts right the beginning, when you're want to work out how you want the thing to look in the namespace. all kinds of criteria are important here, particularly in inferno. in no particular order: - convenience text wins over binary almost every time (except when the data is naturally binary, or efficiency is a major concern - e.g. /dev/draw). "how would i most *like* to be able to access this device?" - efficiency are we going to be able to access operations in reasonable time when using the dev driver over styx? we'd like to keep the driver as "close to the metal" as possible, while still bearing all the other criteria in mind. - universality under inferno it's important not to base the driver on features that are not common to all platforms that might implement it. of course, it's perfectly reasonable to provide optional features (ip(3) has plenty of examples), but the interface to the device shouldn't hinge on them. - access multiplexing how do you want to cope with multiple users all wanting to do different things? all kinds of solution are possible, from "don't care" (e.g. eia(3)), "only one at a time" (e.g. /dev/pointer), to "as many as you like" (e.g. ip(3)). - no mucking around with semantics it's possible to make files do almost anything you want (you're the server, you're in control). but things are best for all concerned if things act as closely as possible like normal files or directories. there are various kinds of "magic" that are fairly standard (e.g. clone files); borrow these conventions from other drivers, but don't (in general) invent your own. look to other drivers for inspiration. many kinds of things have been tried! From charter.net!dbulkow Sat Apr 10 15:35:16 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mxsf16.cluster1.charter.net ([209.225.28.216]) by doppio; Sat Apr 10 15:35:16 BST 2004 Received: from charter.net (cpe-68-112-253-39.ma.charter.com [68.112.253.39]) by mxsf16.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3AEHqHb023881 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:17:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40780214.5080502@charter.net> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:17:56 -0400 From: David Bulkow User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: subscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From xaplos.com!macrod Tue Apr 13 04:34:23 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.64]) by doppio; Tue Apr 13 04:34:23 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040413032910.JHFD1702.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:29:10 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Cc: Subject: Building Inferno Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:29:06 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <40780214.5080502@charter.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Thread-Index: AcQfCOhBcbyuO9hiSCaH/GHF6N/yQwB9/Ppg Message-Id: <20040413032910.JHFD1702.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> I've noticed that the distribution of Inferno includes several C cross compilers. I have a few questions: 1. I want to be able to build the Inferno emu myself. Not really necessary since I have it currently running on Mac OS X, Linux, and Windows XP, but I always like to know that I can compile the system myself (building from CVS, etc.). My question is can I simply update mkconfig (say in Inferno's Edit) for my specific environment and build the emu from within my current emu version of Inferno (invoke mkfile from Inferno's shell which would call 8c)? Essentially, I'd like to know if/how I can build the emulated version of Inferno for Windows within the emulated version of Inferno for Windows (feel free to replace Windows with some other platform)? If this is not possible, then what should be used to build the emu for Windows from its source - MS Visual Studio, MinGW, cygwin? How about Linux and Mac OS X --> gcc? 2. Is it possible to build a 'native port' of Inferno from within the Inferno emu? I'm currently running Inferno emu in Win XP; however, I'd like to compile my new Bluetooth device driver - hypothetically:-) - into a native Inferno kernel running on the ARM processor. Can I simply update some mkfiles and build the entire Inferno OS for ARM (with my custom drivers) from within the Inferno emu running in Windows? I had some difficulty installing Plan9 on my IBM T40 Thinkpad and started to think that this endeavor might not even be necessary (although I'd still like to do it). If I can bootstrap the Inferno emu for Windows from my current working Inferno environment (also running in Windows) and then compile a native version of Inferno to a different processor from within my current working Inferno environment, then I'm set. In fact, I can easily justify making the Inferno emu my "primary OS" since it would essentially be used to build future versions of the emu, build Limbo-based apps, debug my apps, and produce my final Inferno binary image for the target board. I suspect the inclusion of the cross-compilers means I can perform these operations, but this just seems too easy... Thanks, -Mark P.S. Sorry for the cross-post to both Inferno lists, but I wasn't sure if everyone had a chance to make the switch over. Besides, I am very interested in the adverts Topica will sandwich this message with:-) From bellsouth.net!blstuart Tue Apr 13 08:10:50 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf14aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.62]) by doppio; Tue Apr 13 08:10:50 BST 2004 Received: from bellsouth.net ([65.4.255.133]) by imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with SMTP id <20040413042903.RHKU23778.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:29:03 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com From: blstuart@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Building Inferno In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:29:06 -0400 . <20040413032910.JHFD1702.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:20:55 -0500 Sender: blstuart@imf14aec.mail.bellsouth.net Message-Id: <20040413042903.RHKU23778.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> In message <20040413032910.JHFD1702.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos>, "Mark F Rodriguez" writes: >My question is can I simply update mkconfig (say in Inferno's Edit) for my >specific environment and build the emu from within my current emu version of >Inferno (invoke mkfile from Inferno's shell which would call 8c)? Not really. You'll need to use the host OS's native compiler and to modify mkfile accordingly. >Essentially, I'd like to know if/how I can build the emulated version of >Inferno for Windows within the emulated version of Inferno for Windows (feel >free to replace Windows with some other platform)? Inferno is not self-hosting in that sense. Basically, there's no C compiler that runs in Inferno. >If this is not possible, then what should be used to build the emu for >Windows from its source - MS Visual Studio, MinGW, cygwin? How about Linux >and Mac OS X --> gcc? Visual C for now. I've got a grad student working on preparing some patches to allow one to build with cygwin. The big things we had to change were the details of the asm fragments and the thread local variable up. It turns out that the version of gcc included with cygwin doesn't support a thread local storage class. So we had to replace references to up with calls to Windows functions that can manage thread local storage at run time. >2. Is it possible to build a 'native port' of Inferno from within the >Inferno emu? Again no, but here is where the included version of 8c comes in handy. You can build a native that does pretty much all you want except for the VGA support and the native file system. I've got a machine a work that is running native Inferno complete with networking. > I'm currently running Inferno emu in Win XP; however, I'd like >to compile my new Bluetooth device driver - hypothetically:-) - into a >native Inferno kernel running on the ARM processor. Can I simply update some >mkfiles and build the entire Inferno OS for ARM (with my custom drivers) >from within the Inferno emu running in Windows? Not from emu, but from a Windows cmd shell. Also, I promise I haven't forgotten about sending the book material. I've been a little swamped the last week with grading, etc. I'll get it to you as soon as I can and it includes an appendix describing how to rebuild the hosted version (emu). (However, that won't help with a platform for building the Bluetooth driver.) Brian L. Stuart From terzarima.net!forsyth Tue Apr 13 09:43:41 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Tue Apr 13 09:43:41 BST 2004 Message-ID: <0b036f5b955b0f9f783b606c47ff4952@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Building Inferno From: Charles Forsyth Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:39:14 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040413032910.JHFD1702.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The document ``Inferno Ports: Hosted and Native'' should be updated to explain all this. Meanwhile: 1. mkconfig Always set mkconfig to reflect the hosting environment: ROOT= # eg, /usr/inferno, or c:/inferno on Windows SYSHOST=FreeBSD # or Linux, Nt, MacOSX, ... SYSTARG=$SYSHOST OBJTYPE=386 for example. Exceptionally, Plan 9 uses a variable for OBJTYPE: ROOT= SYSHOST=Plan9 SYSTARG=$SYSHOST OBJTYPE=$objtype note that SYSTARG is always $SYSHOST I can't think why we don't set all that automatically on installation, so I shall probably change it to do so, as happens here when building the distributions. mkconfig doesn't change subsequently even when building native kernels. Each native kernel mkfile overrides the settings to reflect the particular combination for that native kernel (eg, OBJTYPE=power, OBJTYPE=arm). In the following sections I'll use $ROOT etc and you should substitute the value of the same. 2. building emu Having set mkconfig to some supported combination, in your hosting system's command interpreter--eg, sh for Unix or cmd for Windows-- ensure that $ROOT/$SYSHOST/$OBJTYPE/bin (eg, /usr/inferno/FreeBSD/386/bin) is in the command interpreter's PATH variable (or equivalent), then do the equivalent of cd $ROOT/emu/$SYSHOST (eg, cd /usr/inferno/emu/FreeBSD) and then, finally, mk will remake emu, including supporting libraries. {mk install} will install it in the appropriate bin directory ($ROOT/$SYSTARG/$OBJTYPE/bin). Under Windows I know that you can use the MKS ksh instead of cmd. The mkfiles selected from $ROOT/mkfiles by the settings in mkconfig use the host platform's own C compiler to compile emu and the supporting libraries. Thus, on Windows we use Microsoft's Visual C/C++/.NET. On SGI we use SGI's C compiler. On most other Unix platforms or Unix clones we use gcc. On Solaris for instance, we use gcc not Sun's compiler. If at some point we can use gcc on Windows that would be fine with us, but as yet we cannot. The only platform on which I know you can cross-compile for different emu targets is Plan 9, and then only for different Plan 9 target architectures (by different settings of $objtype for each mk). That's because Plan 9 compilers become cross-compilers just by compiling the source of any given compiler with the appropriate $objtype setting for the desired target. (eg, on Plan 9, {cd /sys/src/cmd/vc; objtype=power mk install} makes a powerpc executable that is a MIPS compiler, thus cross-compiling for mips on powerpc.) In principle, it should be possible to generate a cross-compiling gcc for certain combinations of host and target, and one of those might support the right combination to cross-compile a selected Inferno hosting platform, but it is not trivial to set up gcc that way, or it wasn't when I had to do it (that wasn't for Inferno). I had to fight endian assumptions in at least one assembler (gnu x86 assembler running on sparc). Perhaps it is easier now. Given that we use gcc for most Unix environments, if you had such a cross compiler, gcc-x86-sparc, say, it should suffice to change the gcc name in appropriate mkfiles in $ROOT/mkfiles. You'd have thought it would be straightforward to cross-compile on FreeBSD x86 for FreeBSD power, but I do not know how. I have installed cross-compilation for ARM from x86 Linux and it was somehow not trivial. 3. Native kernels Don't touch mkconfig. Leave it set to reflect your host environment. The compiler suites 8[acl], q[acl] etc. are included to build native kernels. The executables for them are included for a given host type only when we think or know that the particular platform--for instance Windows-- does not always provide a C compiler. Including them pre-compiled allows you to build native kernels even when you haven't got a C compiler for your host environment. Otherwise you build utils by {cd $ROOT; mk install} which remakes not just emu, but utils and all supporting libraries. To build your new Bluetooth device driver into an ARM kernel, put the driver devbt.c in the appropriate directory (eg, os/port or os/), add "bt" to the "dev" section in the native system's configuration file (see conf(10.6)), and then in the HOST's command interpreter, ensure PATH is set as above, that 5[acl] executables are in the corresponding bin directory, and cd $ROOT/os/; mk will cross-compile on your SYSHOST for the arm. From softcardsystems.com!sah Tue Apr 13 14:53:22 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com ([12.34.136.114]) by doppio; Tue Apr 13 14:53:22 BST 2004 Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3DCqhvR003002 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:52:43 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:52:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam X-Sender: To: Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Building Inferno In-Reply-To: <0b036f5b955b0f9f783b606c47ff4952@terzarima.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Any chance the new list is being archived for future searching? Sam From terzarima.net!forsyth Tue Apr 13 15:38:53 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Tue Apr 13 15:38:53 BST 2004 Message-ID: <300d274716c3a818dc8615bf3ffcfd04@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Building Inferno From: Charles Forsyth Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:34:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xmmonmhzogqxqmrgupoztvxzmf" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xmmonmhzogqxqmrgupoztvxzmf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit messages are archived but i haven't yet set up the search interfaces --upas-xmmonmhzogqxqmrgupoztvxzmf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Tue Apr 13 14:52:41 BST 2004 Received: from athena.softcardsystems.com ([12.34.136.114]) by doppio; Tue Apr 13 14:53:22 BST 2004 Received: from athena (athena [12.34.136.114]) by athena.softcardsystems.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3DCqhvR003002 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:52:43 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:52:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam X-Sender: To: In-Reply-To: <0b036f5b955b0f9f783b606c47ff4952@terzarima.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Building Inferno Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Any chance the new list is being archived for future searching? Sam --upas-xmmonmhzogqxqmrgupoztvxzmf-- From suspicious.org!suspect Tue Apr 13 15:49:51 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Tue Apr 13 15:49:51 BST 2004 Received: by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix, from userid 953) id E19797B; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:44:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.2.75.127] (unknown [128.2.75.127]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D71A72; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:44:34 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <140D63C4-8D59-11D8-A70D-000A95C53D8A@suspicious.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Building Inferno Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:44:33 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) http://lists.gemusehaken.org/pipermail/inferno/ On Apr 13, 2004, at 8:52 AM, Sam wrote: > Any chance the new list is being archived for > future searching? > > Sam > > From xaplos.com!macrod Tue Apr 13 16:45:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf05aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.53]) by doppio; Tue Apr 13 16:45:27 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040413143946.PYZM5947.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:39:46 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Building Inferno Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:39:41 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <20040413042903.RHKU23778.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> Thread-Index: AcQhJuNZfUGXByilTA649/qynYVAEAAPaOrg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-Id: <20040413143946.PYZM5947.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > Inferno is not self-hosting in that sense. Basically, there's > no C compiler that runs in Inferno. > Thanks for the info. Things are pretty clear now. > Visual C for now. I've got a grad student working on preparing > some patches to allow one to build with cygwin. The big things > we had to change were the details of the asm fragments and the > thread local variable up. It turns out that the version of gcc > included with cygwin doesn't support a thread local storage class. > So we had to replace references to up with calls to Windows > functions that can manage thread local storage at run time. Not sure if this helps, but Microsoft has what they call Services for Unix (aka SFU) that includes a Unix environment complete with gcc, make, and shell. I've found building Unix apps / tools with this environment pretty successful. Thanks, -Mark From terzarima.net!forsyth Tue Apr 13 16:51:04 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Tue Apr 13 16:51:04 BST 2004 Message-ID: <09e20db03702de4dc931c34789e8b508@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Building Inferno From: Charles Forsyth Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:46:37 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040413143946.PYZM5947.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Not sure if this helps, but Microsoft has what they call Services for Unix >>(aka SFU) that includes a Unix environment complete with gcc, make, and >>shell. I've found building Unix apps / tools with this environment pretty >>successful. that's interesting. i'd have thought it wouldn't link with the full set of the Windows libraries (not that Inferno needs much but it does need some level of Windows graphics), just to ensure people had to keep buying Microsoft's own compilers to do Windows work, but it would be worth checking. From xaplos.com!macrod Tue Apr 13 16:51:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.71]) by doppio; Tue Apr 13 16:51:52 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040413154638.MWW23778.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:46:38 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Building Inferno Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:46:33 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <140D63C4-8D59-11D8-A70D-000A95C53D8A@suspicious.org> Thread-Index: AcQhZ0ENwqZHJQOFTnilIzRcedf75AAAqB/w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-Id: <20040413154638.MWW23778.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Knowing now that native builds of Inferno are not directly built from within Inferno, can I continue to use my 'preferred' cross compiler to build Inferno? For example, let's say I wanted to build Inferno natively for the iPaq running on the ARM processor. Instead of using 5c from within my Nt/386/bin directory, could I use MS Visual Studio embedded edition instead? This way I could take advantage of the familiar tool chain and tools (i.e., JTAG support, easy thread debugging, etc.) when debugging the Inferno kernel on the target. Here's some more background info for why I'm asking this question. As more of a research project (and possible future use in an existing clients project), I'm interested to see if I can swap out Inferno's current round-robin based task scheduler for a preemptive priority-based scheduler. I have some nice tools already from Accelerated Technologies that integrate nicely with Visual Studio and would like to take advantage of them (i.e., catch priority inversion, race conditions, etc.). Basically, I'll continue to use my existing dev platform to get Inferno up and running on the target board and then utilize the Inferno dev tools (i.e., Acme, Limbo, Acid???, etc.) to actually write my application. Again, thanks for all the assistance, -Mark From cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mirtchov Tue Apr 13 17:56:10 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plan9.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.220.110]) by doppio; Tue Apr 13 17:56:10 BST 2004 Message-ID: <910532a6ec0dfa28515c4f6667364956@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Wmclient vs Tkclient Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:26:06 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I spent two days of the weekend learning Limbo (something I should've done long time ago) by mostly rewriting one or two xscr hacks for it. Hoping that the 'free t-shirt for contributors' event is still ongoing, I wrote a tool similar to Plan 9's lens(1): http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/inferno/lens.b It shows (in an inferno window) a magnification of the location pointed to by the mouse pointer. Magnification is controlled by keys [1,0] with 1 being 1:1 and 0 being 10:1. Part of the reason I did it was to see how fast Inferno's graphics were. Now, thinking in strict Plan 9 terms I had tried to find a way of drawing directly to an inferno window's Image (corresponding to the screen global variable in Plan 9) but the only thing I found was to use a panel Tk widget, as reversi.b does. This actually turned out to be very fast, especially having in mind that my algorithm is much simpler (and slower) than the one used in Plan 9's lens(1). The xscr's ran faster in Inferno running under P9 than native on the same machine. having discovered Wmclient later I reimplemented them to draw directly to the window's Image structure and was amazed to find out that it's slower, hundreds of times slower than using Tk's panel... Since the application involves reading back from display->Image I can imagine there being an issue with accessing Plan 9's video memory directly in the slower case vs accessing local memory in the faster one, but it's still puzzling... andrey ps: the other two programs are rewrites of xscr hacks that mangle the display: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/inferno/ From terzarima.net!forsyth Tue Apr 13 18:08:21 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Tue Apr 13 18:08:21 BST 2004 Message-ID: <5beb41e9259dc65dfaf35917b8843826@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Wmclient vs Tkclient From: Charles Forsyth Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:03:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: <910532a6ec0dfa28515c4f6667364956@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit roger peppe implemented the panel and Wmclient/Tkclient, but he's away this week. i worked on some of the low-level code. i think it could be that output to the panel is buffered, and updated by tk on tk->cmd("update") (for instance), but direct output to the window is not, so every draw request results in a trip to the graphics device. see Image.flush in draw-image(2) to control it, if so. From vitanuova.com!michael Tue Apr 13 21:18:57 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 158.152.8.115 ([158.152.8.115]) by doppio; Tue Apr 13 21:18:57 BST 2004 Message-ID: <004101c421d6$219ecdf0$7308989e@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: <910532a6ec0dfa28515c4f6667364956@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Wmclient vs Tkclient Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:08:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Andrey, thank you for the contribution, and yes you can have a free T-shirt. If you send by private email you size and address. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "andrey mirtchovski" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 9:26 AM Subject: [inferno-list] Wmclient vs Tkclient > I spent two days of the weekend learning Limbo (something I should've > done long time ago) by mostly rewriting one or two xscr hacks for it. > > Hoping that the 'free t-shirt for contributors' event is still > ongoing, I wrote a tool similar to Plan 9's lens(1): > > http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/inferno/lens.b > > It shows (in an inferno window) a magnification of the location > pointed to by the mouse pointer. Magnification is controlled by keys > [1,0] with 1 being 1:1 and 0 being 10:1. > > Part of the reason I did it was to see how fast Inferno's graphics > were. > > Now, thinking in strict Plan 9 terms I had tried to find a way of > drawing directly to an inferno window's Image (corresponding to the > screen global variable in Plan 9) but the only thing I found was to > use a panel Tk widget, as reversi.b does. This actually turned out to > be very fast, especially having in mind that my algorithm is much > simpler (and slower) than the one used in Plan 9's lens(1). The > xscr's ran faster in Inferno running under P9 than native on the same > machine. > > having discovered Wmclient later I reimplemented them to draw directly > to the window's Image structure and was amazed to find out that it's > slower, hundreds of times slower than using Tk's panel... > > Since the application involves reading back from display->Image I can > imagine there being an issue with accessing Plan 9's video memory > directly in the slower case vs accessing local memory in the faster > one, but it's still puzzling... > > andrey > > ps: the other two programs are rewrites of xscr hacks that mangle the > display: > > http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/inferno/ > From cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mirtchov Tue Apr 13 22:01:40 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca ([137.186.244.103]) by doppio; Tue Apr 13 22:01:40 BST 2004 Message-ID: <4b71b32f016e4e20e91c09f21fa62d20@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Wmclient vs Tkclient Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:56:08 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <004101c421d6$219ecdf0$7308989e@MICHAEL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Andrey, > > thank you for the contribution, and yes you can have a free T-shirt. > If you send by private email you size and address. > > Michael That is very generous of you, thanks! I had assumed that since VitaNuova's web page mentioned nothing I'm out of luck. :) By the way, are there any plans for a 4th Edition redesign of shirts and logos? andrey From gmail.com!russcox Wed Apr 14 01:43:32 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.240]) by doppio; Wed Apr 14 01:43:32 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so9983cwc for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:38:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.62 with SMTP id v62mr20018cwb; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0BD64A9D.3BB780A6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:11:35 -0700 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Wmclient vs Tkclient Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <5beb41e9259dc65dfaf35917b8843826@terzarima.net> reading from video memory is slower than reading from disk. perhaps your algorithm is reading from the buffer it renders into? if so, the fact that tk is done entirely in memory before going out to the vga is likely the culprit. From vitanuova.com!michael Wed Apr 14 08:58:22 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 62.254.170.97 ([62.254.170.97]) by doppio; Wed Apr 14 08:58:22 BST 2004 Message-ID: <003501c42237$ae86c4f0$220101c8@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: <4b71b32f016e4e20e91c09f21fa62d20@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Wmclient vs Tkclient Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:46:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 ----- Original Message ----- From: "andrey mirtchovski" > By the way, are there any plans for a 4th Edition redesign of shirts > and logos? We might do it later this year and at the same time we will decide whether to produce a printed version of the 4th Edition manuals. From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Thu Apr 15 07:18:12 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Thu Apr 15 07:18:12 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:12:55 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:12:54 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:12:53 -0700 References: AAQPlbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040414T231253Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: HD install To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Apr 2004 06:12:55.0163 (UTC) FILETIME=[B0F4ACB0:01C422B0] Perhaps someone could give me a pointer. I've heard it said that one can = set up Inferno to boot and run native from a hard disk, but I've never = seen it shown how. I can compile a kernel, but it doesn't do me much = good without a filesystem... Anyone know where to start? Thanks much! From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Thu Apr 15 08:31:29 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Thu Apr 15 08:31:29 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:26:14 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:26:14 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:26:13 -0700 References: AAQPlbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040415T002613Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: kernel build fail To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Apr 2004 07:26:14.0359 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF14B670:01C422BA] Anyone tried the 20040331 release yet? I can seem to get mine to build a = kernel out of the box, using Windows 2000. It crashes where the mkfile = calls "rcsh ../port/mkroot pc" and starts generating Windows memory = errors. Has anyone else seen this? From forsyth Thu Apr 15 09:32:02 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:32:02 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] kernel build fail In-Reply-To: <20040415T002613Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dqplijqamwbyovkjihgwzjxstw" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dqplijqamwbyovkjihgwzjxstw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that's normally one of my tests before release, unless i slipped up. now, i tried it just now and i get a different problem that's even more mysterious (usage message, but only when invoked through the mkfile), but at the same point. --upas-dqplijqamwbyovkjihgwzjxstw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Thu Apr 15 08:31:29 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:26:14 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:26:14 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:26:13 -0700 References: AAQPlbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040415T002613Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Apr 2004 07:26:14.0359 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF14B670:01C422BA] Subject: [inferno-list] kernel build fail Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Anyone tried the 20040331 release yet? I can seem to get mine to build a = kernel out of the box, using Windows 2000. It crashes where the mkfile = calls "rcsh ../port/mkroot pc" and starts generating Windows memory = errors. Has anyone else seen this? --upas-dqplijqamwbyovkjihgwzjxstw-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu Apr 15 10:35:29 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu Apr 15 10:35:29 BST 2004 Message-ID: <037d6728eab5adeb9af65c98bdfa7efd@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] kernel build fail From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:31:00 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040415T002613Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dvtuxrnqjsntloqzmaxzbswhhl" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dvtuxrnqjsntloqzmaxzbswhhl Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i've tried it myself now on a fresh installation from the CD and it was fine. (which is good for sanity because i was sure i had tested it.) i used a Visual C++ cmd box. on my other installation i was building it remotely using ssh to Windows, although i'm fairly sure i'd done that recently as well. still, there's clearly something wrong with the my other installation and yours, and i wonder if the underlying problem might be the same. what path name did you use for your installation? by the way, if i had needed any coaxing to have mkconfig set automatically on installation it would have vanished after having to fuss to set it today. --upas-dvtuxrnqjsntloqzmaxzbswhhl Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Thu Apr 15 08:29:25 BST 2004 Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Thu Apr 15 08:31:29 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:26:14 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:26:14 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:26:13 -0700 References: AAQPlbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040415T002613Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Apr 2004 07:26:14.0359 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF14B670:01C422BA] Subject: [inferno-list] kernel build fail Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Anyone tried the 20040331 release yet? I can seem to get mine to build a = kernel out of the box, using Windows 2000. It crashes where the mkfile = calls "rcsh ../port/mkroot pc" and starts generating Windows memory = errors. Has anyone else seen this? --upas-dvtuxrnqjsntloqzmaxzbswhhl-- From suspicious.org!suspect Thu Apr 15 14:46:30 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Thu Apr 15 14:46:30 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.75.127] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.75.127]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30BBC7A; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:41:16 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <20040414T231253Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> References: AAQPlbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf <20040414T231253Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <90A5418A-8EE2-11D8-912E-000A95C53D8A@suspicious.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org Subject: Re: [inferno-list] HD install Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:41:14 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Hello, If you just want to make a bootable floppy or CD, you can follow these instructions: http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~pstanley/nativeinferno.html You can always run 'memfs -a / ' to allow you to write evanescent files, or mount a remote filesystem for persistent storage. I realize though that that is not exactly what you asked for: To install native inferno on a harddisk, these instructions are assuming you have the kfs device in inferno (it is no longer in R4, but the following works for R3) (1) bind -b '#H' /dev #H now appears as hd0disk and hd0partition representing the partition table and rest of the disk respectively (2) ; disk/part This prints out what would have gone into the partition table (3) ; disk/part -w This actually writes the partition table info (4) bind -b '#Kcons' /dev echo ream fs /dev/hd0fs > '#Kcons/kfsctl' (5) echo filsys fs /dev/hd0fs > '#Kcons/kfsctl' (6) bind -c '#Kfs' /n/local (?) You can now copy a filesystem onto /n/local. You should then subsequently be able to boot using the Plan 9 boot loader. cheers, On Apr 15, 2004, at 2:12 AM, Ben Huntsman wrote: > Perhaps someone could give me a pointer. I've heard it said that one > can set up Inferno to boot and run native from a hard disk, but I've > never seen it shown how. I can compile a kernel, but it doesn't do > me much good without a filesystem... Anyone know where to start? > Thanks much! From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Thu Apr 15 17:44:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Thu Apr 15 17:44:52 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:39:37 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:39:37 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:39:36 -0700 References: AAQZlbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040415T093936Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] kernel build fail To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Apr 2004 16:39:37.0852 (UTC) FILETIME=[3DE7ABC0:01C42308] >what path name did you use for your installation? my install path is F:/src/live/inferno/20040331 in order to keep different release dates separate until I test them = locally... From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Thu Apr 15 18:03:55 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Thu Apr 15 18:03:55 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:58:40 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:58:39 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:58:39 -0700 References: AAAblbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040415T095839Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: broken MacOSX install To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Apr 2004 16:58:40.0033 (UTC) FILETIME=[E6B2A910:01C4230A] Hello again. My appologies in advance for posting so many questions, but = this one I thought needed pointing out. When installing the distribution under MacOSX, the script starts generating= continuous errors at the point where it tries to copy /fonts/lucida. = Once the errors begin, the only way to regain control is to open another = terminal and kill off the install process. Attempting to re-run the = install script works, but results in an incomplete install which does not = include mkconfig or the /mkfiles directory. I've seen this problem all = along, and the only way I've been able to get Inferno running on my MacOSX = system is to copy over the functional install from my Nt system. Anyone = else had this problem? From corpus-callosum.com!jas Thu Apr 15 18:17:21 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from gate.corpus-callosum.com ([216.36.98.130]) by doppio; Thu Apr 15 18:17:21 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.8] (codex [10.0.1.8]) by gate.corpus-callosum.com (8.12.6/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i3FHC6fK010934 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:12:06 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jas@corpus-callosum.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <20040415T095839Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> References: AAAblbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf <20040415T095839Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <022C1987-8F00-11D8-806D-003065E1714E@corpus-callosum.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jeff Sickel Subject: Re: [inferno-list] broken MacOSX install Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:12:00 -0500 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) The latest 20040331 release still has the MacOSX emu binary from pre 20031205. You can follow the directions found on http://www.corpus-callosum.com/software.html for the fourth edition to install with the binary and install script found there. Then follow the standard build instructions to build a new emu from the latest sources. You may need to add the following to the end of lib9/mkfile sysfatal.o: sysfatal.c $CC $CFLAGS -fno-common sysfatal.c From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Thu Apr 15 20:11:31 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Thu Apr 15 20:11:31 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:06:16 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:06:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:06:15 -0700 References: AAgdlbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040415T120615Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] broken MacOSX install To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Apr 2004 19:06:16.0136 (UTC) FILETIME=[BA174480:01C4231C] >>> Jeff Sickel 4/15/2004 10:12:00 AM >>> >The latest 20040331 release still has the MacOSX emu binary from pre=20 >20031205. You can follow the directions found on=20 Good point. I copied the 20040331 cd to a folder on my hd, replaced the = stock emu with Corpus Callosum's, and all works fine, even with Vita's = install script. From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Apr 16 00:20:31 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 00:20:31 BST 2004 Message-ID: <9e02f14b81ec2d0db7af2ff59e5a3c3b@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] broken MacOSX install From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:16:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040415T120615Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Good point. I copied the 20040331 cd to a folder on my hd, replaced the stock emu with Corpus Callosum's, and all works fine, even with Vita's install script. actually all the MacOSX stuff is taken verbatum from CC's: i just thought i had updated something (because the dates and content were different when i checked) but it wasn't quite the right version. i'll copy the right one in tomorrow to reduce further fuss. From xaplos.com!macrod Fri Apr 16 06:50:59 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf13aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.61]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 06:50:59 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040416034051.KWWM1818.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:40:51 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: Inferno Use Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:40:49 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcQjZJws8SKn4/qkQ9Ww8O/voUSAqw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20040416034051.KWWM1818.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> During one of my searches about Inferno on the net, I came across one link that mentioned Inferno's use in commercial products and had a listing of product using Inferno. I was trying to track down the link again this evening and thought I'd ask out of curiosity... What "interesting" commercial products (particularly embedded) are using native Inferno for their OS? I'd actually be interested in also hearing about research / educational projects using Inferno as well. Thanks, -Mark From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Fri Apr 16 06:57:53 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 06:57:53 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:52:38 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:52:38 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:52:36 -0700 References: AAgklbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040415T225236Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Use To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Apr 2004 05:52:38.0247 (UTC) FILETIME=[0607C770:01C42377] >What "interesting" commercial products (particularly embedded) are using >native Inferno for their OS? From my research, the best I ever found was that Lucent produced a = rack-mountable firewall (maybe even two different models!!) that ran = Inferno. Of course, they're no longer produced. Otherwise, I've not = heard of any Inferno-based products that made it to market. There's = always the Lucent/Intel "sword" WebPhone reference platform... From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Apr 16 09:02:19 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 09:02:19 BST 2004 Message-ID: <714335df7de73da2f0eeef3b92778d5c@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Use From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:57:49 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040415T225236Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Lucent produced a rack-mountable firewall ... >Of course, they're no longer produced. Lucent still uses a variant of Inferno in a range of firewall devices. From altair.syntelos.com!jdp Fri Apr 16 09:15:50 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from altair.syntelos.com ([204.193.147.240]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 09:15:50 BST 2004 Received: from syntelos.com (pool-141-153-163-69.mad.east.verizon.net [141.153.163.69]) by altair.syntelos.com (8.10.2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i3G8ANR06166; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <407FBC27.5060308@syntelos.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:57:43 -0700 From: John Pritchard Organization: http://www.syntelos.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, fr-fr, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Use References: <714335df7de73da2f0eeef3b92778d5c@terzarima.net> In-Reply-To: <714335df7de73da2f0eeef3b92778d5c@terzarima.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Lucent produced a rack-mountable firewall ... >>Of course, they're no longer produced. >> >> > >Lucent still uses a variant of Inferno in a range of firewall devices. > > > > > Of course you're just whetting our appetites for news of that animal. From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Apr 16 09:25:37 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 09:25:37 BST 2004 Message-ID: <408720cd0e7d6de3dc4c64bf075bde3e@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Use From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:21:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: <407FBC27.5060308@syntelos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ijhgyplcditwkhxqajvsxhkenh" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ijhgyplcditwkhxqajvsxhkenh Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit not really: i think it's still called the Lucent Managed Firewall, and the Lucent web site for it does still mention Inferno (somewhere). (i'd give the link but i didn't note it the last time i looked at it.) i do know a bit more, but that's all confidential. --upas-ijhgyplcditwkhxqajvsxhkenh Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Fri Apr 16 09:19:46 BST 2004 Received: from altair.syntelos.com ([204.193.147.240]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 09:15:50 BST 2004 Received: from syntelos.com (pool-141-153-163-69.mad.east.verizon.net [141.153.163.69]) by altair.syntelos.com (8.10.2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i3G8ANR06166; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <407FBC27.5060308@syntelos.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:57:43 -0700 From: John Pritchard Organization: http://www.syntelos.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, fr-fr, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: <714335df7de73da2f0eeef3b92778d5c@terzarima.net> In-Reply-To: <714335df7de73da2f0eeef3b92778d5c@terzarima.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Use Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk >>Lucent produced a rack-mountable firewall ... >>Of course, they're no longer produced. >> >> > >Lucent still uses a variant of Inferno in a range of firewall devices. > > > > > Of course you're just whetting our appetites for news of that animal. --upas-ijhgyplcditwkhxqajvsxhkenh-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Apr 16 09:43:16 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 09:43:16 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Use From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:38:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: <408720cd0e7d6de3dc4c64bf075bde3e@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>(i'd give the link but i didn't note it the last time i looked at it.) if it's any help it was a link i followed from a press release about a new model (range?) earlier this year. From teleware.fi!anssi.porttikivi Fri Apr 16 09:50:11 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from hkisrv08.tw.fi ([193.65.76.105]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 09:50:11 BST 2004 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: VS: [inferno-list] Inferno Use Disposition-Notification-To: "Anssi Porttikivi" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:46:55 +0300 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [inferno-list] Inferno Use Thread-Index: AcQjjiVOYnucDSIfTNiqbF11Cl2UJQAACMWw From: "Anssi Porttikivi" To: =20 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 See http://a9.com/lucent+managed+firewall+inferno The devices are called The Lucent VPN Firewall Portfolio now. To quote from the page http://www.lucent.com/security/: "Lucent VPN Firewall Portfolio...Using a native high-availability architecture with no single point of failure, our full-featured bridging firewalls enable stealthy, depth-of-defense security that conventional router-based firewalls cannot match...The ultra-thin, highly secure operating system (OS) - developed by the same Bell Labs team that created the UNIX(r) OS - is virtually impenetrable, while delivering high-speed content security and premium authentication services" >Charles Forsyth [mailto:forsyth@terzarima.net]=20 >Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Use > >not really: i think it's still called the Lucent Managed Firewall, >and the Lucent web site for it does still mention Inferno >(somewhere). (i'd give the link but i didn't note it the last time i >looked at it.) i do know a bit more, but that's all confidential. ANSSI PORTTIKIVI TELEWARE OY mobile: +358 (0)40 750 5155 * fax: +358 (0)9 343 1321=20 Laajalahdentie 23, FIN-00330 Helsinki, FINLAND anssi.porttikivi@teleware.fi * www.teleware.fi -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0.3 iQA/AwUBQH+dCDh54EDnRfhuEQLsQACeLRA94b0DqONJxbqaienBBjs8nc8AoMfx j12gI0dKGXhT7D6KXXtHAQJF =3Df3Mu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From teleware.fi!anssi.porttikivi Fri Apr 16 10:18:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from hkisrv08.tw.fi ([193.65.76.105]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 10:18:20 BST 2004 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: VS: [inferno-list] Inferno Use Disposition-Notification-To: "Anssi Porttikivi" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:15:04 +0300 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [inferno-list] Inferno Use Thread-Index: AcQjZJws8SKn4/qkQ9Ww8O/voUSAqwAKpNlQ From: "Anssi Porttikivi" To: =20 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Even more interesting was now dicontinued PathStar line, see further down on this page: http://www.dslprime.com/News_Articles/a/Voice_over_DSL/voice_over_dsl. html Moreover, search at Google for '"ip exchange" inferno' gives a pointer to a Bell Labs Technical Journal article about a product called "IP Exchange", which used Inferno. I don't think it was ever on market, though? Heck, I once sketched an idea of a 9P/Styx based "hybrid distributed switch/router" on some Inferno list, and somebody commented that Lucent is working on one. I never heard about it since, only now when I looked at Google, I noticed that "IP Exchange" product. Can anybody find the article online, perhaps somewhere in the Google cache? >Mark F Rodriguez [mailto:macrod@xaplos.com]=20 >[inferno-list] Inferno Use > >During one of my searches about Inferno on the net, I came across >one link that mentioned Inferno's use in commercial products and >had a listing of product using Inferno. I was trying to track down >the link again this evening and thought I'd ask out of curiosity... > >What "interesting" commercial products (particularly embedded) are >using native Inferno for their OS?=20 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0.3 iQA/AwUBQH+joTh54EDnRfhuEQJEJQCg5mPFHF6ecd/XVqv8s3zDJOG92cUAn1zV /3fVYJIm5czILqcEzulUUHCr =3DY6OQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nilpotent.org!silence-inferno Fri Apr 16 11:48:29 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from naseebnetworks.com ([202.59.76.210]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 11:48:29 BST 2004 Received: (qmail 19701 invoked by uid 2015); 16 Apr 2004 10:36:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20040416103633.19700.qmail@naseebnetworks.com> From: "Faried Nawaz" Date: 16 Apr 2004 16:36:33 +0600 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: freebsd 5.2.1 Hello, Does 20040331 work on FreeBSD 5.2.1? I get % sh -x /mnt/install/FreeBSD-386.sh /u/inferno + base=. + dir=/mnt/install/FreeBSD-386.sh + test /mnt/install/FreeBSD-386.sh != . + test . != install + basename /mnt/install/FreeBSD-386.sh + base=FreeBSD-386.sh + dirname /mnt/install/FreeBSD-386.sh + dir=/mnt/install + test /mnt/install != . + test FreeBSD-386.sh != install + basename /mnt/install + base=install + dirname /mnt/install + dir=/mnt + test /mnt != . + test install != install + test install != install + CDPATH=/mnt + EMUPATH=FreeBSD/386/bin + test -d /u/inferno + /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu -c1 -G -r/mnt /dis/install/install.dis -r /u/inferno -p FreeBSD and then nothing. It's just sitting there. ps alx says % ps alxww |grep emu 200 24550 24545 0 20 0 4984 1500 pause Ss ?? 0:00.02 /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu -c1 -G -r/mnt /dis/install/install.dis -r /u/inferno -p FreeBSD 200 24551 1 0 5 0 4984 1500 ttyin S ?? 0:00.00 /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu -c1 -G -r/mnt /dis/install/install.dis -r /u/inferno -p FreeBSD 200 24552 1 0 20 0 4984 1500 pause S ?? 0:00.01 /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu -c1 -G -r/mnt /dis/install/install.dis -r /u/inferno -p FreeBSD 200 24553 1 0 20 0 4984 1500 pause S ?? 0:00.00 /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu -c1 -G -r/mnt /dis/install/install.dis -r /u/inferno -p FreeBSD 0 24601 1946 0 77 0 1416 520 - R+ p1 0:00.01 grep emu % Faried. -- The Great GNU has arrived, infidels, behold his wrath ! "We have nothing to fear from free information but pop-up advertising!" continuations are hard. let's go []! -- 'barbie From igd.fhg.de!christoph.hornung Fri Apr 16 14:55:17 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from loki.igd.fhg.de ([192.44.32.17]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 14:55:17 BST 2004 Received: from igd.fhg.de (host1336.igd.fhg.de [146.140.6.56]) by loki.igd.fhg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D8807B25 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:50:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <407FE475.5020604@igd.fhg.de> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:49:41 +0200 From: "Dr. Christoph Hornung" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Available Results on Inferno OS? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would be interested, whether there are: - commercial products - software libraries based on Inferno OS. Especially, is there any JavaVM Implementation based on Inferno OS? And, if so, how does it compare to Sun's JVM? kind regards ch From xaplos.com!macrod Fri Apr 16 17:42:35 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.66]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 17:42:35 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040416155346.VBDX1773.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:53:46 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: Debugging Native Inferno Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:53:36 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcQjyvnNCSzTGaZCT12Z30XmkI0lrA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20040416155346.VBDX1773.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> I was able to use the instructions provided from a previous query (thanks to all who responded) to build Inferno for ARM. I've made arrangements for an ARM-based development board and had a few questions... again:-) I just ran the 'default' makefile and didn't notice any options for optimization (i.e., -O0, -O2, etc.). I also didn't see anything about optimization flag settings in the man entry for the compiler. Can I turn on/off optimization (-O0) so I can easily debug the kernel on the target board? Speaking of debugging, what kind of debugging tools do I have available when actually running native Inferno on the ARM board? The current environment I'm coming from allows debugging over OCI/JTAG and gdb (as well as several other combinations like Ethernet, serial, etc.). It's quite easy to step through low-level code and analyze not only the application, but threads, ISRs, etc. Assuming I have everything ready to debug (i.e., a native Inferno build for ARM, supported development board, boot loader, Ethernet cable / serial cable / JTAG, etc.), what is the "standard way" to debug a native Inferno kernel, device drivers, ISRs, built-in modules, etc.? Thanks, -Mark From cooper.edu!salomo3 Fri Apr 16 17:58:42 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wish.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.74]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 17:58:42 BST 2004 Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id A89483938; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id ADD8E3937 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from verb.ee.cooper.edu ([199.98.20.228]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2344.199.98.20.228.1082133713.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <407FE475.5020604@igd.fhg.de> References: <407FE475.5020604@igd.fhg.de> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: "Joel Salomon" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-19.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dr. Christoph Hornung said: > Especially, is there any JavaVM Implementation based on Inferno OS? And= , > if so, how does it compare to Sun's JVM? Do you mean a JVM atop the Dis VM (probably be horribly inefficient) or Java/Inferno interoperability? "The design of the Inferno virtual machine" http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/papers/hotchips.html has some jvm/dis comparisons. (I seem to remember a paper that went into greater detail - any pointers?) Might be possible to implement a really cool lisp machine on dis though..= . --Joel From suspicious.org!suspect Fri Apr 16 18:21:07 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 18:21:07 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.75.127] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.75.127]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 395BB73; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:15:52 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <2344.199.98.20.228.1082133713.squirrel@wish> References: <407FE475.5020604@igd.fhg.de> <2344.199.98.20.228.1082133713.squirrel@wish> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:15:51 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Also of interest is the paper that was in the LCTES conference and then in LNCS: C. F. Yurkoski, L. R. Rau and B. K. Ellis, Using Inferno to execute Java on small devices. Springer Verlag Lecture Notes in Computer Science, vol. 1474, pp. 108-118, 1998. cheers, On Apr 16, 2004, at 12:41 PM, Joel Salomon wrote: > Dr. Christoph Hornung said: >> Especially, is there any JavaVM Implementation based on Inferno OS? >> And, >> if so, how does it compare to Sun's JVM? > > Do you mean a JVM atop the Dis VM (probably be horribly inefficient) or > Java/Inferno interoperability? > "The design of the Inferno virtual machine" > http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/papers/hotchips.html has some jvm/dis > comparisons. (I seem to remember a paper that went into greater detail > - > any pointers?) > > Might be possible to implement a really cool lisp machine on dis > though... > > --Joel From cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mirtchov Fri Apr 16 18:29:19 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rhome.plan9.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.220.110]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 18:29:19 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:23:40 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <2344.199.98.20.228.1082133713.squirrel@wish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > (I seem to remember a paper that went into greater detail - > any pointers?) "Timing Trials, or, the Trials of Timing" http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/bwk/interps/paper.ps I keep giving pointers to it, but I'm not sure of its relevance anymore (dates back to 1997), perhaps those who know what has changed since (in both Java and Inferno's respective VM's) can elaborate. andrey From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Apr 16 18:48:09 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 18:48:09 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:44:48 +0100 In-Reply-To: <2344.199.98.20.228.1082133713.squirrel@wish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xkbniyrqqdxbnwylklmjspbeiw" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xkbniyrqqdxbnwylklmjspbeiw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit there are two bits of software to help support Java, one converts .class files to Dis statically; another does something similar on the fly. the only reason we haven't included them is that the tree containing the source includes some code with Sun markings all over it, and we don't know its status. it would now need some work to account for the changes in exception support and similar changes to Dis. it was also Personal Java (or some similarly limited thing, although even then the .class hierarchy was quite large.) i'll see if i can find a .pdf for the paper pip mentioned, which describes a slightly earlier version of it. --upas-xkbniyrqqdxbnwylklmjspbeiw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Fri Apr 16 18:00:59 BST 2004 Received: from wish.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.74]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 17:58:42 BST 2004 Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id A89483938; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id ADD8E3937 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from verb.ee.cooper.edu ([199.98.20.228]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2344.199.98.20.228.1082133713.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <407FE475.5020604@igd.fhg.de> References: <407FE475.5020604@igd.fhg.de> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:41:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joel Salomon" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-19.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Dr. Christoph Hornung said: > Especially, is there any JavaVM Implementation based on Inferno OS? And= , > if so, how does it compare to Sun's JVM? Do you mean a JVM atop the Dis VM (probably be horribly inefficient) or Java/Inferno interoperability? "The design of the Inferno virtual machine" http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/papers/hotchips.html has some jvm/dis comparisons. (I seem to remember a paper that went into greater detail - any pointers?) Might be possible to implement a really cool lisp machine on dis though..= . --Joel --upas-xkbniyrqqdxbnwylklmjspbeiw-- From anothy.9srv.net!inferno Fri Apr 16 19:01:40 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 19:01:40 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.180] ([193.195.87.250]) by 9srv.net; Fri Apr 16 13:56:24 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <5FDC05A6-8FCF-11D8-8942-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Generic/polymorphism support? Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:56:23 +0100 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Is the current form of polymorphism in limbo considered static? If not, are the deltas likely to be additive or edits? some guy from jersey. $B%"(B From suspicious.org!suspect Fri Apr 16 20:55:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 20:55:20 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.75.127] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.75.127]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB8117F; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:50:04 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <2344.199.98.20.228.1082133713.squirrel@wish> References: <407FE475.5020604@igd.fhg.de> <2344.199.98.20.228.1082133713.squirrel@wish> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <4102C9F7-8FDF-11D8-918D-000A95C53D8A@suspicious.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:50:03 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Hello, While on the topic of: "is there any JavaVM Implementation based on Inferno OS" I thought it would be meet and right to mention: http://www.savaje.com/products/index.html which was founded by several people from the erstwhile Inferno BU. The unofficial description I was given at the time they started was that the SAVAJE OS kernel was based on Inferno, i.e., they replaced Dis w/ a JVM, and tuned their implementation for ARM platforms. I'm sure someone can comment more on whether this is true or not. And speaking of Lisp, I can't wait till I see Squarepusher using Dannenberg's Nyquist (based on xlisp) through Edisong on Inferno, Nyquist being embodied as a driver / dynld builtin. Musical reciprocation betwixt men and machines. cheers, On Apr 16, 2004, at 12:41 PM, Joel Salomon wrote: > Dr. Christoph Hornung said: >> Especially, is there any JavaVM Implementation based on Inferno OS? >> And, >> if so, how does it compare to Sun's JVM? > > Do you mean a JVM atop the Dis VM (probably be horribly inefficient) or > Java/Inferno interoperability? > "The design of the Inferno virtual machine" > http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/papers/hotchips.html has some jvm/dis > comparisons. (I seem to remember a paper that went into greater detail > - > any pointers?) > > Might be possible to implement a really cool lisp machine on dis > though... > > --Joel From infernopark.com!vdharani Fri Apr 16 21:41:14 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ensim.rackshack.net ([216.127.72.23]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 21:41:14 BST 2004 Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3GMqUZ02478 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:52:30 -0400 Received: from 192.11.226.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:52:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <56273.192.11.226.116.1082155950.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:52:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: To: In-Reply-To: <4102C9F7-8FDF-11D8-918D-000A95C53D8A@suspicious.org> References: <4102C9F7-8FDF-11D8-918D-000A95C53D8A@suspicious.org> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit pip, > While on the topic of: > > "is there any JavaVM Implementation based on Inferno OS" > > I thought it would be meet and right to mention: > > http://www.savaje.com/products/index.html > > which was founded by several people from the erstwhile Inferno BU. The > unofficial description I was given at the time they started > was that the SAVAJE OS kernel was based on Inferno, i.e., > they replaced Dis w/ a JVM, and tuned their implementation > for ARM platforms. I'm sure someone can comment > more on whether this is true or not. i was about to mention this. > And speaking of Lisp, I can't wait till I see Squarepusher > using Dannenberg's Nyquist (based on xlisp) through > Edisong on Inferno, Nyquist being embodied as a driver / dynld builtin. > Musical reciprocation betwixt men and machines. you have mentioned too many things that i am not aware of. has it been implemented in inferno? is it expected to be released shortly? thanks dharani From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Fri Apr 16 21:49:47 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 21:49:47 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:44:31 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:44:31 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:44:30 -0700 References: AAgvlbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040416T134430Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Apr 2004 20:44:31.0809 (UTC) FILETIME=[9E995310:01C423F3] > > "is there any JavaVM Implementation based on Inferno OS" Wasn't there once a Java VM that ran on top of Inferno, from around the = 2nd Edition? I know I've read about it somewhere... From infernopark.com!vdharani Fri Apr 16 22:04:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ensim.rackshack.net ([216.127.72.23]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 22:04:52 BST 2004 Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3GNG8Z02543 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:16:08 -0400 Received: from 192.11.226.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6866.192.11.226.116.1082157368.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: To: In-Reply-To: <20040416T134430Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> References: <20040416T134430Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> >> "is there any JavaVM Implementation based on Inferno OS" > > Wasn't there once a Java VM that ran on top of Inferno, from around the > 2nd Edition? I know I've read about it somewhere... It is not "on top of" per se. It basically converted .class to .dis (both statically and on-the-fly, like charles mentioned) and executed java programs right on top of Inferno's DIS VM. Where needed, new instructions were added. From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Fri Apr 16 22:16:08 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 22:16:08 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:10:52 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:10:52 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:10:51 -0700 References: AAwvlbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040416T141051Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Apr 2004 21:10:52.0794 (UTC) FILETIME=[4CF07DA0:01C423F7] yes, but is it still in existence? >>> 4/16/2004 4:16:08 PM >>> >> >> "is there any JavaVM Implementation based on Inferno OS" > > Wasn't there once a Java VM that ran on top of Inferno, from around the > 2nd Edition? I know I've read about it somewhere... It is not "on top of" per se. It basically converted .class to .dis (both statically and on-the-fly, like charles mentioned) and executed java programs right on top of Inferno's DIS VM. Where needed, new instructions were added. From binarydream.org!uriell Fri Apr 16 22:19:14 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from server4.lensbuddy.com ([212.100.255.31]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 22:19:14 BST 2004 Received: by server4.lensbuddy.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 2E8512803903; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:13:59 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:13:59 +0100 From: Uriel To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Message-ID: <20040416211359.GA30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> Mail-Followup-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: <20040416T134430Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040416T134430Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i I find reading this thread form some old inferno list specially amusing: http://www.isr.umd.edu/~doc/Inferno/Mail-list/threads.html#00712 http://www.isr.umd.edu/~doc/Inferno/Mail-list/msg00712.html FOR RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, APRIL 2, 1997 SAN FRANCISCO -- Building a new bridge between computing and communications worlds, Lucent Technologies and Sun Microsystems today signed three agreements that ensure that applications written to Sun's JavaTM platform will run on all communications devices and networks running Lucent's InfernoTM network operating system. [...] The reactions of people in the list to this announcement are also very interesting, and their predictions for the future: "Java will take over Limbo as primary language for Inferno development..." ^_^ As for Savaje, sad to see how the same(or similar?) core, but but with an inferior and hyped language can be more successful than the beautiful Inferno/Limbo combination... 7 years ago Limbo was better than any other "non-academic" language, today the situation hasn't changed one single bit... I hope at least python will catch up a bit some day and implement threading the Limbo way, at least stackless python has channels so there might be some hope... Best wishes uriel On Fri, Apr 16, 2004 at 01:44:30PM -0700, Ben Huntsman wrote: > > > > "is there any JavaVM Implementation based on Inferno OS" > > Wasn't there once a Java VM that ran on top of Inferno, from around the 2nd Edition? I know I've read about it somewhere... From suspicious.org!suspect Fri Apr 16 23:24:41 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 23:24:41 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.75.127] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.75.127]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FB927A; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:19:26 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <56273.192.11.226.116.1082155950.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> References: <4102C9F7-8FDF-11D8-918D-000A95C53D8A@suspicious.org> <56273.192.11.226.116.1082155950.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <1E761B82-8FF4-11D8-8C4C-000A95C53D8A@suspicious.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:19:25 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Oh, I forgot to put in a >[insert your favorite emoticon here]<. Edisong is a audio sequencing/synthesis program for Inferno written by Vasil. Nyquist is my favorite music composition/ synthesis language (see http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~music) . I use Nyquist regularly, and I'm much enamored by the prospects of Edisong. cheers, On Apr 16, 2004, at 6:52 PM, wrote: >> And speaking of Lisp, I can't wait till I see Squarepusher >> using Dannenberg's Nyquist (based on xlisp) through >> Edisong on Inferno, Nyquist being embodied as a driver / dynld >> builtin. >> Musical reciprocation betwixt men and machines. > you have mentioned too many things that i am not aware of. has it been > implemented in inferno? is it expected to be released shortly? > > thanks > dharani From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Apr 16 23:35:34 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 23:35:34 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] HD install From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:32:13 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040414T231253Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vlwgqvheeubqrrdfxbeawjdjly" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vlwgqvheeubqrrdfxbeawjdjly Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the kernel kfs(3) of 2nd/3rd edition required fairly extensive changes to work again because of the protocol change, and as the BUGS suggests i was a little uneasy about its implementation (although i put it into inferno in the first place). the kfs(4) in Limbo that was to replace it languished on my dump file system for quite some time until this week, when by coincidence i had just picked it up again when your message appeared. i had a good go at it during the last few days, and i am now testing the initial version. it should finally appear in the distribution shortly. one of the reasons it languished is that most file systems i've needed on native disks or NOR flash were small enough and simple enough that dossrv was adequate, and on NAND flash logfs(3) was better. --upas-vlwgqvheeubqrrdfxbeawjdjly Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Thu Apr 15 07:19:28 BST 2004 Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Thu Apr 15 07:18:12 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:12:55 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:12:54 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:12:53 -0700 References: AAQPlbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040414T231253Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Apr 2004 06:12:55.0163 (UTC) FILETIME=[B0F4ACB0:01C422B0] Subject: [inferno-list] HD install Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Perhaps someone could give me a pointer. I've heard it said that one can = set up Inferno to boot and run native from a hard disk, but I've never = seen it shown how. I can compile a kernel, but it doesn't do me much = good without a filesystem... Anyone know where to start? Thanks much! --upas-vlwgqvheeubqrrdfxbeawjdjly-- From xaplos.com!macrod Sat Apr 17 04:28:59 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf05aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.53]) by doppio; Sat Apr 17 04:28:59 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040417020256.HLY1818.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:02:56 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Inferno Use Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:02:51 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <20040416034051.KWWM1818.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Thread-Index: AcQjZJws8SKn4/qkQ9Ww8O/voUSAqwAuJCBQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20040417020256.HLY1818.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > What "interesting" commercial products (particularly embedded) are using > native Inferno for their OS? I came across the TuxScreen project (http://www.tuxscreen.net/) while searching for other resources about Inferno today. Too bad it appears I missed the opportunity to buy one of these guys (btw, if anyone knows how I can still get my hands on one of them, please let me know). From reading this site, I also "uncovered" sboot for the StongARM processor. Is this still the preferred bootloader for Inferno on ARM or should I be looking into something over on the Plan9 side? Thanks, -Mark From suspicious.org!suspect Sat Apr 17 14:36:31 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Sat Apr 17 14:36:31 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.75.127] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.75.127]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43CD881; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <7EF1A912-9073-11D8-AFBE-000A95C53D8A@suspicious.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org Subject: freetype in native kernels Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:31:13 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Curious as to what the plans are on freetype in native kernels. If it's been mentioned before, I must have missed it. Thanks. cheers, From terzarima.net!forsyth Sat Apr 17 19:44:53 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sat Apr 17 19:44:53 BST 2004 Message-ID: <512ba68fea426ada181d3bee321a8fcf@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] freetype in native kernels From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:41:31 +0100 In-Reply-To: <7EF1A912-9073-11D8-AFBE-000A95C53D8A@suspicious.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bvyxbyvzjgpynouhfjzxcnspwq" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bvyxbyvzjgpynouhfjzxcnspwq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit we have configured the Freetype module into native kernels, but perhaps you're asking when one might expect the scalable font server? i wasn't sure. --upas-bvyxbyvzjgpynouhfjzxcnspwq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Sat Apr 17 14:39:43 BST 2004 Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Sat Apr 17 14:36:31 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.75.127] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.75.127]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43CD881; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <7EF1A912-9073-11D8-AFBE-000A95C53D8A@suspicious.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:31:13 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Subject: [inferno-list] freetype in native kernels Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Curious as to what the plans are on freetype in native kernels. If it's been mentioned before, I must have missed it. Thanks. cheers, --upas-bvyxbyvzjgpynouhfjzxcnspwq-- From cooper.edu!salomo3 Sun Apr 18 02:20:39 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wish.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.74]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 02:20:39 BST 2004 Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 9A4123938; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 012F63937 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 68-173-27-208.nyc.rr.com ([68.173.27.208]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish.cooper.edu with HTTP; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33210.68.173.27.208.1082250226.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> In-Reply-To: <20040416211359.GA30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> References: <20040416T134430Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> <20040416211359.GA30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: "Joel Salomon" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-19.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Uriel said: > 7 years ago Limbo was better than any other "non-academic" language, > today the situation hasn't changed one single bit... I hope at least > python will catch up a bit some day and implement threading the Limbo > way, at least stackless python has channels so there might be some > hope... Probably be better to implement limbo as a scripting language for *nix/lunix. I believe there's a sourceforge abandonware that does that.. Maybe start from the newsqueak source base? --Joel From cooper.edu!salomo3 Sun Apr 18 03:26:58 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wish.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.74]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 03:26:58 BST 2004 Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id EF0643938; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 58B533937 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adjective.ee.cooper.edu ([199.98.20.221]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3653.199.98.20.221.1082254204.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <33210.68.173.27.208.1082250226.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> References: <20040416T134430Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> <20040416211359.GA30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> <33210.68.173.27.208.1082250226.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: "Joel Salomon" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-19.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I said: > Probably be better to implement limbo as a scripting language for > *nix/lunix. I believe there's a sourceforge abandonware that does that.= . Update: it's abandonware, all right. Stuff in cvs not been touched for 7 months - http://sourceforge.net/projects/acheron-l/ Supposed to be a compiler for limbo. They *do* have the gnu AUTHORS, COPYING, etc. files set up though.. --Joel From gmail.com!russcox Sun Apr 18 04:26:13 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.248]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 04:26:13 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so4997cwc for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:20:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.78 with SMTP id v78mr13941cwb; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <15052975.65BF769C@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:14:17 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20040416T134430Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> <20040416211359.GA30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> <33210.68.173.27.208.1082250226.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> We discussed this on 9fans a few months ago. I have the beginning of a port of limbo to native Unix. If anyone is interested in picking it up and working on it, mail me. Russ From infernopark.com!vdharani Sun Apr 18 05:37:04 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ensim.rackshack.net ([216.127.72.23]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 05:37:04 BST 2004 Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3I6meZ07858 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 02:48:40 -0400 Received: from 67.85.61.176 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 02:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33126.67.85.61.176.1082270920.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 02:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: To: In-Reply-To: <15052975.65BF769C@mail.gmail.com> References: <15052975.65BF769C@mail.gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Russ, > We discussed this on 9fans a few months ago. > I have the beginning of a port of limbo to native > Unix. If anyone is interested in picking it up and > working on it, mail me. will the license of the result be the same as Vita Nuova's inferno? i am thinking it would be nice if we have some form of limbo/inferno with GPL- like license. i also feel it is the license that keeps 9fans away from using inferno/limbo (or atleast i dont see any other reason). about the time inferno was released, i think rochester university comp. sci. department started something like open-source inferno. but the students who did that ended up joining inferno group itself and the work halted. after that, this is the second time i am hearing some effort like that. it is really sad that everyone (atleast 9fans + a few) talks good about limbo but no one seems to use it for anything more than a couple of personal toy projects. i have seen inferno/limbo in keep-warm mode for many years and i would like to see more and more people using inferno. the decline in mailing list usage (while in topica.com) made me worried. given that a bad license is good enough to kill a product these days, i would like to hear if there will be any improvements to the license policy by Vita Nuova. also, as long as inferno's license is not GPL or linux- like, i personally feel it is better to have an open-source inferno/limbo project with GPL-like license. i would like to discuss more but i am waiting to see some license update. once it is ready and once someone explains (in normal english) what it means, i would like to pass my comments and/or get my questions answered. regards dharani From terzarima.net!forsyth Sun Apr 18 10:18:21 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 10:18:21 BST 2004 Message-ID: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:14:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: <33126.67.85.61.176.1082270920.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>thinking it would be nice if we have some form of limbo/inferno with GPL- >>like license. i also feel it is the license that keeps 9fans away from >>using inferno/limbo (or atleast i dont see any other reason). errr. under the Liberal licence (29 May 2003, last year note) 4th edition Inferno is distributed as Free software. we use `Liberal' to avoid the libero/gratiuto confusion. the effect of at least one clause is similar to the GPL. that's why there's a dual-licence scheme for those who don't want that. as it happens, it's also free, in that you can download without paying money. that's also why there aren't immediately any printed manuals. the main points that have arisen are (a) possible interaction with a commercial licence for someone who wishes to use both, which is most easily dealt with by terms in the commercial licence, and (b) licences such as GPL often have requirements such as `you must keep a banner if the software displays one' but does that make its terms `more restrictive' and thus inelegible for use under section 2 of our licence (no, because it's inconsequential so go ahead). it's slightly tighter than the GPL as regards use for `services', so we couldn't use GPL even if i were happy with a licence that includes a long ideological preface (before an otherwise decent licence) nor is it quite right for English law (you aren't allowed to disclaim all warranty, nor does GPL deal with the consequences of the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999). i'm not sure what a `linux-like' licence is since it's notionally GPL except that Linus then allowed people to distribute binary-only modules if dynamically linked (rather negating the point of access to source both in principle and sadly in practice), and since Inferno applications are nothing if not dynamically linked (load ItUp ItUp->PATH) that might be a bad idea! From forsyth Sun Apr 18 10:27:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:27:20 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? In-Reply-To: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>that's also why there aren't immediately any printed manuals. forsyth@terzarima.net ought to have said ``that's partly why ...'' because the other reason is that a few usefully-printed additions seem likely to appear and some documents need to be brought up to date. had i quite realised how much traffic just leaving topica would generate, i'd have done it much earlier! From anothy.9srv.net!inferno Sun Apr 18 11:22:05 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 11:22:05 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.180] ([193.195.87.250]) by 9srv.net; Sun Apr 18 06:16:49 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <803144D5-9121-11D8-B33E-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:16:47 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) > had i quite realised how much traffic just leaving topica would > generate, > i'd have done it much earlier! It's nice to have a system that doesn't categorically refuse to let me post! From binarydream.org!uriell Sun Apr 18 12:01:22 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from server4.lensbuddy.com ([212.100.255.31]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 12:01:22 BST 2004 Received: by server4.lensbuddy.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 412492803903; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:56:07 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:56:07 +0100 From: Uriel To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Message-ID: <20040418105607.GC30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> Mail-Followup-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <656bfb87ceafc87851aad1710302a2c8@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <656bfb87ceafc87851aad1710302a2c8@vitanuova.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i On Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 10:27:20AM +0100, C H Forsyth wrote: > >>that's also why there aren't immediately any printed manuals. > > forsyth@terzarima.net ought to have said ``that's partly why ...'' > because the other reason is that a few usefully-printed additions seem likely > to appear and some documents need to be brought up to date. I, and others too, am eagerly awaiting for the release of the printed manuals to buy a copy of Inferno 4ed. And, of course, we are all waiting for the "mythical" Inferno book ;) (Any news about that? other than Amazon's for ever changing "publication date"...) > had i quite realised how much traffic just leaving topica would generate, > i'd have done it much earlier! There was a feeling of impatience in the air, everyone was awaiting for a sign... we are all sick of Java and Lunix, it's time for a change... Now, what about a wiki? The current docs section in the web site has missing many links and it's a bit outdated, a plan9 style wiki, only editable from acme, would be a great resource. Best wishes uriel From anothy.9srv.net!inferno Sun Apr 18 12:03:30 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 12:03:30 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.180] ([193.195.87.250]) by 9srv.net; Sun Apr 18 06:58:13 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <33126.67.85.61.176.1082270920.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> References: <15052975.65BF769C@mail.gmail.com> <33126.67.85.61.176.1082270920.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed Message-Id: <49050D3E-9127-11D8-B33E-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:58:12 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) > it is really sad that everyone (atleast 9fans + a few) talks good about > limbo but no one seems to use it for anything more than a couple of > personal toy projects. i have seen inferno/limbo in keep-warm mode for > many years and i would like to see more and more people using inferno. > the > decline in mailing list usage (while in topica.com) made me worried. okay, i agree with this sentiment. i've got a toy project i'm working on (hopefully i'll finish and post today or tomorrow), but for things i do at work, it's not really a consideration for very long. and there's a small-ish set of reasons why. these are not intended to be in any particular order other than as i think of them. 1) Lack of a decent Mac OS X port i know one exists (i have it running right now), but it requires X11, which is ugly, it's not entirely stable (although improving), and i don't believe the JIT compiler works (although geoff reports success). I'm primarily a mac user, as are *all* of our R&D staff, and most/all our IT staff. something just under half have bothered to install X11. they're not inclined to do it just for this one oddball system. 2) Lack of good server-side support for non-Inferno clients we've got external customers that need to get to our systems and data. it's not practical for us to install or have them install Inferno on their systems. we're doing web apps for customer access, because it uses stuff we can be pretty damned sure they've already got. i'd love to see these systems written in Limbo, but as it is they're written in Perl. an Inferno module for Apache and some html-generating modules would help out here a lot. 3) Lack of browser plug-ins i got *really* excited when the first one came out - it seemed (seems) like a wonderful way to get Inferno on people's desktops. lacking #2 above, this would allow us to use Inferno with limited start-up costs. but the networking support never really got off the ground, and it was only ever for one browser on one platform. and not one we're inclined to build systems around. 4) Poor external interface support some common interfaces simply aren't there. um, printing? at all? postscript/PDF support? a WebDAV client or server would be very nice, and useful. heck, combine a WebDAV server with the next item below and i could probably justify an inferno server on our network today! 5) No (real) file server kfs doesn't count. either a version of ken's fs that speaks styx, or a version of fossil/venti (yes, i know bits of it are there), would go a long way towards providing value to our company. having used dumps, every other way of doing backups sucks. period. we're trying to find a solution better than tape, but not coming up with good answers. if i could get to this from clients that don't speak styx (see #4), it'd be a huge win. as an addendum, the plan9/inferno split is harmful to both communities. the rift (cut deep well before VN was even in the picture) has been closing, thanks to good technical and social work by VN. but it's still too big. the systems really are similar enough that they should be 100% interoperable from an external interface point of view, and pretty darned close internally. i *should* be able to mount one systems /dev/draw from the other and have it do rational things. i mention this as an addendum because i can't honestly say this has any impact on our decision to use inferno, but it's something of a personal nit. i also can't say that if these were all solved we'd be using inferno for everything, or even anything. but it's likely. until #1, #2 or #3, and #4, at least, get solved, it's just not on the table for most (but not all) of our projects here. none of this is intended to be whining. it's still a great system for either research or toy projects, and a few, specific types of commercial projects. but these are the items that prevent it from being more useful to us in a more general sense, and, from what i've heard from others, a similar set to what a wider audience would agree with. now, back to my toy project... some guy from jersey. $B%"(B From anothy.9srv.net!inferno Sun Apr 18 12:16:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 12:16:45 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.180] ([193.195.87.250]) by 9srv.net; Sun Apr 18 07:11:28 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <33126.67.85.61.176.1082270920.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> References: <15052975.65BF769C@mail.gmail.com> <33126.67.85.61.176.1082270920.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed Message-Id: <233E50AD-9129-11D8-B33E-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 12:11:27 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) oh, it might also be worth noting explicitly that the license is not on that list. the liberal license is fine for everything i'm doing myself, and if we need something else, we'll get a commercial license. heck, personally, i was quite happy with the subscription model (certainly while i was under the student license cover!), and we'd (corporately) be happy to have continued in that model. some guy from jersey. $B%"(B From binarydream.org!uriell Sun Apr 18 13:20:56 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from server4.lensbuddy.com ([212.100.255.31]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 13:20:56 BST 2004 Received: by server4.lensbuddy.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id CB05C2803903; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:15:40 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:15:40 +0100 From: Uriel To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Message-ID: <20040418121540.GD30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> Mail-Followup-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: <33126.67.85.61.176.1082270920.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Oh, the damned license(s)... I'm in no way a GPL fan, but it would have been nice not to have "yet another license", it makes it hard to explain to people that Inferno is now open source, not everyone is a lawyer, and no one likes to read licenses, leave alone understands them; a known license helps when you are trying to convince someone to try Inferno. There are already a considerable amount of open source licenses, and to be honest I'm surprised none of them was "good enough", but I can understand you had your reasons, still, it would help if at least the license were OSI approved, is there any reason it's not? And what is up with the click thru download nonsense? to be asked your name and email puts people off, and then, the forms seems to work fine even if you don't fill anything... The web site should make it more clear too, I have pointed people to http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/ and have they tell me "oh, to get Inferno I have to pay?", yes, people is that dumb :( if you don't make it all clear and easy they will run back to their Lunix crap. I was speaking with an OpenBSD developer about the released C compilers, as they seemed interested in them back when Plan 9 was re-licensed, and he was even suspicious of the Free-for-all license. I'm no lawyer, and I really hate to argue about this matters... I have to agree with Theo on this one, licenses are like software, and the simpler, the better. Please don't take this as criticism, I'm eternally grateful that you released the code at all, and I personally like the "free-for-all" license, I just think the license misinformation is hindering wider adoption of Inferno and that makes me sad. And it's more a matter of making it easier for people to understand/know what the license is, rather than actually change anything the license means... Best wishes uriel On Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 10:14:59AM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > >>thinking it would be nice if we have some form of limbo/inferno with GPL- > >>like license. i also feel it is the license that keeps 9fans away from > >>using inferno/limbo (or atleast i dont see any other reason). > > errr. under the Liberal licence (29 May 2003, last year note) > 4th edition Inferno is distributed as Free software. we use `Liberal' > to avoid the libero/gratiuto confusion. the effect of at least one clause is > similar to the GPL. that's why there's a dual-licence scheme for those who > don't want that. as it happens, it's also free, in that you can download > without paying money. that's also why there aren't immediately any > printed manuals. > > the main points that have arisen are (a) possible interaction with a commercial > licence for someone who wishes to use both, which is most easily dealt with > by terms in the commercial licence, and (b) licences such as GPL often have requirements > such as `you must keep a banner if the software displays one' but does that make > its terms `more restrictive' and thus inelegible for use under section 2 of our licence > (no, because it's inconsequential so go ahead). it's slightly tighter than the GPL > as regards use for `services', so we couldn't use GPL even if i were happy with a licence > that includes a long ideological preface (before an otherwise decent licence) nor > is it quite right for English law (you aren't allowed to disclaim all warranty, > nor does GPL deal with the consequences of the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999). > > i'm not sure what a `linux-like' licence is since it's notionally GPL except that Linus > then allowed people to distribute binary-only modules if dynamically linked > (rather negating the point of access to source both in principle and sadly in practice), > and since Inferno applications are nothing if not dynamically > linked (load ItUp ItUp->PATH) that might be a bad idea! > From gmail.com!russcox Sun Apr 18 15:00:00 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.240]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 15:00:00 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so333cwc for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 06:54:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.13 with SMTP id u13mr453cwc; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 06:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <135314D3.78DB634F@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:28:03 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <33126.67.85.61.176.1082270920.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <20040418121540.GD30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> I'm so sick of arguing about licenses. It makes me want to stop working on software entirely. Russ From binarydream.org!uriell Sun Apr 18 16:45:10 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from server4.lensbuddy.com ([212.100.255.31]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 16:45:10 BST 2004 Received: by server4.lensbuddy.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 874AB2803903; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 16:39:54 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 16:39:54 +0100 From: Uriel To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Message-ID: <20040418153954.GE30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> Mail-Followup-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: <33126.67.85.61.176.1082270920.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <20040418121540.GD30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> <135314D3.78DB634F@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <135314D3.78DB634F@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i On Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 09:28:03AM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > I'm so sick of arguing about licenses. It makes me want to stop > working on software entirely. I agree completely, sorry for the rant :( I personally don't care much as long as I have access to the source. Maybe it wasn't the right way to put it, but the rant was from the POV of minimizing the amount of time one has to spend talking with people about the matter, right now you have to explain the license every time you introduce someone to Inferno/Plan 9, and in many cases then argue with them over their(often bogus) interpretation of it, and it's annoying... I wish people weren't so religious about it... Best wishes uriel From terzarima.net!forsyth Sun Apr 18 17:15:59 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 17:15:59 BST 2004 Message-ID: <5f086eaa9fa358ef3fe6b7d28bbb5fa7@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Generic/polymorphism support? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:12:36 +0100 In-Reply-To: <5FDC05A6-8FCF-11D8-8942-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-guxbcvxmqvehtgmpyjgwsbyaou" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-guxbcvxmqvehtgmpyjgwsbyaou Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit could you elaborate a little more? it could save me some typing. the main addition is to document the syntax that allows constraints to be specified for type parameters (thus allowing parametrised types access to operations on the parameters). that could involve an edit because the currently undocumented syntax puts the constraints at the start of an adt and roger has noted that it might be less cluttered if they were at the end. the second aspect is that currently constraints need to be repeated at times for adt functions that use them, but although that's precise it is equally verbose, and perhaps should not be required. this sort of polymorphic type results from the use of universal quantifiers in the underlying type system (eg, `for all V, T such that ...: use V and T in another type definition'). (indeed, the syntax would be prettier and more accurate if we just used the unicode character for universal quantifier instead of `for', but we don't set that precedent for the use of unicode characters in Limbo syntax.) anyhow, this allows a module to provide a type that's parametrised by a type provided by a program using the module (eg, providing Tree allowing Tree[T] for any suitable T). a type system can allow an existential qualifier to be used. that allows the representation of a type to be encapsulated, and in a some sense it offers the dual to parametric polymorphism. the Limbo module system does something similar at the module level, but so-called existential types if added would extend that effect to smaller scopes with more general effect. it's possible to emulate aspects of either type quantifier by using a process in a module implementation to maintain the implementation-specific representation attached to a type or types in the module specification. that's sometimes needed in any case to ensure the data type implemented is safe for concurrent use. even so, there is some thought about having a form of explicit existential type in Limbo to provide the dual to its polymorphism. --upas-guxbcvxmqvehtgmpyjgwsbyaou Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Fri Apr 16 18:59:22 BST 2004 Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Fri Apr 16 19:01:40 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.180] ([193.195.87.250]) by 9srv.net; Fri Apr 16 13:56:24 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <5FDC05A6-8FCF-11D8-8942-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com From: Anthony Sorace Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:56:23 +0100 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Subject: [inferno-list] Generic/polymorphism support? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Is the current form of polymorphism in limbo considered static? If not, are the deltas likely to be additive or edits? some guy from jersey. $B%"(B --upas-guxbcvxmqvehtgmpyjgwsbyaou-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Sun Apr 18 17:39:38 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 17:39:38 BST 2004 Message-ID: <86a810b8d596f6fecf84a52353671b6d@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] licence From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:36:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: <135314D3.78DB634F@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-rrouvelzcixahymbbmudxfutac" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-rrouvelzcixahymbbmudxfutac Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit quite, i mean there comes a point where, although i didn't put the click-through business in, just inherited it, but i could easily remove it, i do wonder if someone can't be arsed to click through or makes such a big thing about it (i don't mean uriell@binarydream.org here, since he was only the messenger that observed correctly that it does bother some people a lot), whether they are really ever going to be such a great contributor of anything other than angst than it's worth my seriously worrying about it. it's more likely to vanish just because it's convenient to fetch things automatically and that scheme can get in the way (if you don't want to rely on current naming conventions). i switched from the GPL to the free-for-all for the utils mk and compilers because someone swore they would never do any decent work with it if it had the GPL, so it's not that we're unbending, but then again, there are limits. as russ says, the in-fighting, as between Free and Open, gets a bit tedious. i suppose required to choose i prefer the Free people because although they are more ideological, they are fairly consistent and seem less sanctimonious, and i use more of their programs, but on the whole, i'd prefer just to settle down and get back to work! i don't take any of this personally because i see the matter pop up on the caml list too.... as it happens, i did have a look to see whether another licence would do because i am lazy and mean (i hate paying solicitors, and anyway we have to work it out for them where Free software is concerned) but at the time i looked i did not see anything with the right effect or care about certain points, drawn up for English law. i noticed Ericsson had a variant of some existing licence (forget which) redrawn for Swedish law. now, the US and English legal systems are still fairly closely related, but the disclaimers need care, and there are some other technical points to address (there are differences i believe in contract law even between the various States). --upas-rrouvelzcixahymbbmudxfutac Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Sun Apr 18 14:59:18 BST 2004 Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.240]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 15:00:00 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so333cwc for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 06:54:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.13 with SMTP id u13mr453cwc; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 06:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <135314D3.78DB634F@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:28:03 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <33126.67.85.61.176.1082270920.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <20040418121540.GD30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk I'm so sick of arguing about licenses. It makes me want to stop working on software entirely. Russ --upas-rrouvelzcixahymbbmudxfutac-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Sun Apr 18 17:42:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 17:42:20 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:38:57 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040416T141051Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit just a note to say that i haven't forgotten nor am i ignoring BHuntsman's queries about booting, debugging, etc. that started this thread (i think). From comcast.net!battelle Sun Apr 18 17:44:49 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.202.55]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 17:44:49 BST 2004 Received: from battamd64 (c-24-5-8-120.client.comcast.net[24.5.8.120]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004041816243201100k0pmte> (Authid: battelle); Sun, 18 Apr 2004 16:24:32 +0000 From: "Joe Battelle" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:24:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <135314D3.78DB634F@mail.gmail.com> Thread-Index: AcQlTWKXIIB1+nfkS7uTIRoYJGZuXwAEqsgA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 >I'm so sick of arguing about licenses. It makes me want to stop working on software entirely. Arguing bad. Clarifying good. I had to stop working on an inferno project because I never got a response about commercial licensing. I could give a rat's tail which "open" license is used, but if I can't tell a client how much the commercial license is going to cost them then I can't spec the product. Without a published flat-rate license inferno is in trouble. Joe From pobox.com!taj.khattra Sun Apr 18 18:31:22 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net ([199.185.220.220]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 18:31:22 BST 2004 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([207.6.35.166]) by priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with ESMTP id <20040418172605.JUAZ62.priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net@localhost.localdomain> for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:26:05 -0600 Received: (qmail 12699 invoked by uid 500); 18 Apr 2004 17:30:23 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:30:23 -0700 From: Taj Khattra To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] licence Message-ID: <20040418173023.GA12593@localhost.localdomain> References: <135314D3.78DB634F@mail.gmail.com> <86a810b8d596f6fecf84a52353671b6d@terzarima.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <86a810b8d596f6fecf84a52353671b6d@terzarima.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i > i noticed Ericsson had a variant of some existing licence > (forget which) redrawn for Swedish law. if you're referring to the Erlang Public License, it's a derivative of the Mozilla Public License, taking into account Swedish law. (we used to have the same bleeding licensing debates on the Lua mailing list when the Lua license was similar, but not quite the same, as the zlib license. eventually, the Lua authors decided to release Lua 5.0 under the MIT license. that seems to have pacified the hordes.) From xaplos.com!macrod Sun Apr 18 19:53:57 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf13aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.61]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 19:53:57 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040418180437.GIBQ1773.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 14:04:37 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 14:04:20 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <212732608e29f34a87c763c0d6a479c3@vitanuova.com> Thread-Index: AcQlTWKXIIB1+nfkS7uTIRoYJGZuXwAEqsgAAAG150A= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20040418180437.GIBQ1773.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > I had to stop working on an inferno project because I never got a response > about commercial licensing. I could give a > rat's tail which "open" license is used, but if I can't tell a client how > much the commercial license is going to cost them then I can't spec the > product. Without a published flat-rate license inferno is in trouble. Interesting... I've recently made an inquiry about this same matter since I wanted to know the actual cost(s) for using Inferno commercially before really investing too much time with the technology. At first I thought the "commercial subscription" WAS the license and entitled one to use Inferno for commercial products as long as the subscription was current. From several archive messages and recent postings, this does not appear to be the case. What then is the annual commercial subscription needed for? As one getting ready to make a decision about using Inferno for a commercial product (and not being a lawyer) here are some of my concerns/questions (no particular order): 1. Is commercial use royalty based? 2. What is the cost to use Inferno commercially? 3. Is the commercial license on the VN web site the "real" license or am I missing something? The reason I ask is that it appears that a commercial license is solely based on an annual subscription model. 4. If we decide to base our platform on Inferno, then we need assurances that we can continue to use the Inferno technology (with a valid license of course) even if further development of Inferno is stopped (i.e., it's shelved and/or no longer supported), VN goes out of business or sells the technology, etc. 5. If there is not a flat rate pricing structure, we'd want to make sure the licensing cost does not start at $X / year or unit and then after we go to market (and hopefully have a really good year) increases to $X * N / year or unit while other customers are still paying $X / year or unit. 6. We must have access to all source files. [This appears to already be satisfied] 7. Technical support for the product must be available. 8. Active and knowledgeable community of users. [Already found that here] I'm sure I'll think of other questions / concerns, but these were on my mind. While I'm not a big fan of the GPL, I do like knowing that the software I learn and use today will be around tomorrow (maybe not officially supported or actively developed, but I have the right to continue to use it and the source to maintain or modify it). I've used several commercial RTOS and often times the use of them requires an upfront purchase that entitles one to use it (also gets you access to the source code). Once this fee has been paid, you can use the code for as long as you want and since you have the source can change it as well. Some companies also charge an annual subscription for support and entitlement to future releases, but if you let your subscription run out you can still use the software (you just don't get future updates or support). I tend to like this commercial model since it guarantees that the purchase I make for the code allows me to use it in the future (even if the company I purchased from abandons the product or ceases to exist) and kind of locks down my investment (i.e., if the company decides to sell off the technology and the new company decides to sell the same system for 10xs as much or changes the license, I can cancel my subscription but continue to use the software I currently own). Any "official" answers to these concerns/questions would greatly help in making a decision about using the Inferno technology for an upcoming project. Thanks, -Mark From 9srv.net!a Sun Apr 18 20:27:07 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 20:27:07 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.180] ([193.195.87.250]) by 9srv.net; Sun Apr 18 15:21:50 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <20040418180437.GIBQ1773.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> References: <20040418180437.GIBQ1773.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:21:48 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) > At first I thought the "commercial subscription" WAS the license and > entitled one to use Inferno for commercial products as long as the > subscription was current. From several archive messages and recent > postings, > this does not appear to be the case. What then is the annual commercial > subscription needed for? i'm not really sure, but note that what VN's currently selling as the subscription isn't the same as the old subscription - for starters, it's about a tenth the cost. i think some of your other questions are based on the old subscription model, but i'll wait for someone authoritative to clear that up. > 5. If there is not a flat rate pricing structure, we'd want to make > sure the > licensing cost does not start at $X / year or unit and then after we > go to > market (and hopefully have a really good year) increases to $X * N / > year or > unit while other customers are still paying $X / year or unit. unless, presumably, N<1, eh? ;-) From 9srv.net!a Sun Apr 18 20:37:37 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 20:37:37 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.180] ([193.195.87.250]) by 9srv.net; Sun Apr 18 15:32:20 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <5f086eaa9fa358ef3fe6b7d28bbb5fa7@terzarima.net> References: <5f086eaa9fa358ef3fe6b7d28bbb5fa7@terzarima.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Message-Id: <1B8B20A2-916F-11D8-B33E-000A95DA79F6@9srv.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Generic/polymorphism support? Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:32:19 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) > could you elaborate a little more? > it could save me some typing. sorry, yes, i should have been a bit clearer, but you covered=20 everything i needed, and then some. > indeed, the syntax would be prettier and more accurate if we > just used the unicode character for universal quantifier instead > of `for', but we don't set that precedent for the use of unicode > characters in Limbo syntax. heh. funny you should mention that. i'd asked about polymorphism in the=20= first place because i'd been considering an APL interpreter that=20 actually uses the unicode characters (all the existing ones i know of=20 just use special font tricks). there were a few things i couldn't=20 figure out how to do without polymorphism. i've always wanted to see =E2=86=92 equal -> for channel operations, or = =E2=89=94 for=20 assignment. some guy from jersey. =E3=82=A2 From cooper.edu!salomo3 Sun Apr 18 20:57:04 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wish.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.74]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 20:57:04 BST 2004 Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id C8E133939; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:40:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 59E443938 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:40:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-2ivecgu.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.50.30]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish.cooper.edu with HTTP; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:40:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4107.165.247.50.30.1082317208.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> In-Reply-To: <49050D3E-9127-11D8-B33E-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> References: <15052975.65BF769C@mail.gmail.com> <33126.67.85.61.176.1082270920.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <49050D3E-9127-11D8-B33E-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:40:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: "Joel Salomon" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-19.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anthony Sorace said: > 5) No (real) file server > kfs doesn't count. either a version of ken's fs that speaks styx, or a > version of fossil/venti I seem to recall that the inferno 4e styx & 9P2000 have converged (unless I've misread http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/4e/styx.html ), so *maybe* you could mount a plan9 fossil/venti server. > the systems really are similar enough that they should be 100% > interoperable from an external interface point of view, and pretty > darned close internally. i *should* be able to mount one systems > /dev/draw from the other and have it do rational things. At the risk of sounding like 9fans' weapons enthusiast, yup. > some guy from jersey. > =1B$B%"=1B(B some other guy from brooklyn, ;) --Joel From vitanuova.com!michael Sun Apr 18 21:36:34 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 158.152.8.115 ([158.152.8.115]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 21:36:34 BST 2004 Message-ID: <00fb01c425c5$fa90dfc0$7308989e@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: <33126.67.85.61.176.1082270920.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <20040418121540.GD30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:22:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Uriel" > There are already a considerable amount of open source licenses, and to > be honest I'm surprised none of them was "good enough", but I can > understand you had your reasons, still, it would help if at least the > license were OSI approved, is there any reason it's not? It may be irksome but it is necessary for us to have our own licence so that we can be quite precise about the rights and obligations that we wish to pass on to licencees, and we wanted something that is actually a licence (see below). We will however try and explain things better on the web site. Just because a licence has an OSI approval does not help anyone, the devil is in the detail. > And what is up with the click thru download nonsense? to be asked your > name and email puts people off, and then, the forms seems to work fine > even if you don't fill anything... We like to know who is downloading the software but as you have found we don't require it; Bill Gates has apparently downloaded Inferno on many occassions. > The web site should make it more clear too, I have pointed people to > http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/ and have they tell me "oh, to get > Inferno I have to pay?", yes, people is that dumb We will try and make it more explicit, thanks for the feedback. > I have to agree with Theo on this one, licenses are like software, and > the simpler, the better. Unfortunately many of the 'so called' licences are not licences at all and would be very difficult to defend or challenge in law. In order to protect our investment we have to be precise in legal terms which means choosing a jurisdiction. Having made a choice on jurisdiction a certain amount of complexity is inevitable. Having said that, I do think our licence is clearer than many (including the GPL). From 9srv.net!a Sun Apr 18 22:21:42 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Sun Apr 18 22:21:42 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.180] ([193.195.87.250]) by 9srv.net; Sun Apr 18 17:16:25 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <4107.165.247.50.30.1082317208.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> References: <15052975.65BF769C@mail.gmail.com> <33126.67.85.61.176.1082270920.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <49050D3E-9127-11D8-B33E-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> <4107.165.247.50.30.1082317208.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:16:24 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) > I seem to recall that the inferno 4e styx & 9P2000 have converged > (unless > I've misread http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/4e/styx.html ), so > *maybe* > you could mount a plan9 fossil/venti server. nope. at a minimum, the authentication schemes are different. some guy from jersey. $B%"(B From xaplos.com!macrod Mon Apr 19 00:34:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.64]) by doppio; Mon Apr 19 00:34:52 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040418232935.UFWV1714.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:29:35 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: Free Compiler for Windows Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:29:30 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-index: AcQlnP9b6IICvP7UQamH0nhn2Knw/g== Message-Id: <20040418232935.UFWV1714.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Thought others might be interested that Microsoft has release their C/C++ compiler for "free". I haven't tried yet, but this should allow anyone who is interested in building Inferno (emu) for Windows to do so without having to purchase Visual Studio. According to the link below, the tools are identical to those shipping with Visual Studio .Net 2003. http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/ Thanks, -Mark From infernopark.com!vdharani Mon Apr 19 02:50:40 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ensim.rackshack.net ([216.127.72.23]) by doppio; Mon Apr 19 02:50:40 BST 2004 Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3J42TZ16022 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 00:02:29 -0400 Received: from 67.85.61.176 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 00:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33125.67.85.61.176.1082347349.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 00:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: To: In-Reply-To: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> References: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi, while convincing people to use inferno/limbo is difficult, it would be nice if we know how much it is for a commercial license for a company. earlier, it was explicit and flat. now, it seems to be case-to-case basis. from what i heard (i could be wrong), the license fee seems to be more than embedded linux license fee. inferno is definitely superior to linux or anything else. but how many products are out using inferno? how many are in the pipeline? just many people participate in this mailing list? what happened to the talented individuals who knew and used inferno well? how can we retain existing users and attract more and more people? these days license is one of the important deciding factors for choosing a technology. as rob put it well, linux succeeded because of 'open-source' concept not because of its greatness. i would like to see more and more people/companies adopt inferno. it may be possible to attract people with a 'liberal' commercial license costing less. otherwise it is difficult to convince people when they say 'but then linux is free! and out product could cost less!'. we also need to note that by choosing inferno/limbo, companies have issues like: * ease of getting people to work in inferno/limbo * technical expertise in inferno/limbo * making inferno work with third-party modules * porting 'industry-standard' apps/modules to inferno * inferno can be obtained only from vita nuova (single point-of-failure?) * it will be a very costly affair if they need to migrate (for whatever reason) to a different language (seriously, i have heard atleast two groups talking about it). as far as java or linux is concerned, these issues are either non-existent or can be solved easily. i wonder whether inferno/limbo will eventually become everyone's toy (like, say, linksys router) or be an expensive platform used by a small set of people for a special purpose (like, say, an underwater robot(?)). inferno was released 7 years before. here are the facts: no of products that are out using inferno - 1 (?) no of books on inferno/limbo - 1 no of jobs on inferno/limbo - 0 (?) (atleast monster says so) no of hardware companies that support inferno - 0 (?) no of individuals who have inferno expertise - <100 (?) no of companies who are keen in inferno - ? just imagine what the numbers are for linux or java. what can we do to see a 10X growth in inferno adoptation? where will inferno be in 2008? i do like inferno. personally, i spend my free time advising and helping college students to understand and use plan 9 and inferno/limbo. even if they dont get to use plan 9 or inferno/limbo when they get employed, i am confident that they will get a fairly solid foundation for their career from these platforms. thanks dharani From binarydream.org!uriell Mon Apr 19 05:12:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from server4.lensbuddy.com ([212.100.255.31]) by doppio; Mon Apr 19 05:12:45 BST 2004 Received: by server4.lensbuddy.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 82DB82803903; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 05:07:29 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 05:07:29 +0100 From: Uriel To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] licence Message-ID: <20040419040729.GF30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> Mail-Followup-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: <135314D3.78DB634F@mail.gmail.com> <86a810b8d596f6fecf84a52353671b6d@terzarima.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <86a810b8d596f6fecf84a52353671b6d@terzarima.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i First thanks Michael and Charles for your replies. Just to make it clear, I don't care at all about the license as long as I can get the src and can play/work with it; I only was trying to point some issues that I have noticed while "evangelizing"(*yuck*) Limbo/Inferno to others. So my main interest was to help Inferno rather than complain about, if I want to complain about something I will complain about wm's ugliness! ;) [rio for Inferno anyone? hint, hint!] On Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 05:36:15PM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > although i didn't put the click-through business in, just inherited > it, but i could easily remove it, i do wonder if someone can't be > arsed to click through or makes such a big thing about it (i don't > mean uriell@binarydream.org here, since he was only the messenger that > observed correctly that it does bother some people a lot), whether > they are really ever going to be such a great contributor of anything > other than angst than it's worth my seriously worrying about it. Yes, I agree, and it doesn't bother me at all, specially since just clicking without filling anything gets one thru :) Still, it raises a bit the bar to try Inferno, maybe someone doesn't care too much, but at the same time maybe they don't know much about Inferno and don't have such a great interest, and they don't know they can just ignore the form and there is no need at all for putting their email, also many people associates that kind of "click thru" pages with restrictive licenses, spam, etc. Think that Inferno is competing for attention with thousands of braindamaged open source projects that people can just apt-get install in 30 seconds(BTW, anyone making .debs of Inferno?), and as others have pointed out, there are clear (business) advantages to have as much people trying Inferno as possible... I personally rather only have "sane" people using and developing Inferno, but look where did that take Plan 9, isolated and ignored :( Inferno is a chance to introduce some sanity in the rotten software world, probably the last chance... > it's more likely to vanish just because it's convenient to fetch > things automatically and that scheme can get in the way (if you don't > want to rely on current naming conventions). Yes, that would be nice. BTW, is there any easier way to know when there are new updates other than going to the download page? Some kind of changelog would be also greatly appreciated, IMHO the best would be to have a news item that lists the main changes in the update, that also would make the site look a bit less dead ;) Or maybe sources.vitanuova.com? [hint, hint!] ^_^ And now I will shut up about all this stupid license crap ;) Best wishes uriel From ericsson.com!bengt.kleberg Mon Apr 19 09:35:21 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from eagle.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.53]) by doppio; Mon Apr 19 09:35:21 BST 2004 Received: from esealmw143.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by eagle.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id i3J8FQAh010418 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:15:26 +0200 Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by esealmw143.al.sw.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:15:25 +0200 Received: from wsb017.uab.ericsson.se ([134.138.232.116]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id JDM00KMJ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:08:33 +0200 Received: from ericsson.com by wsb017.uab.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/client-1.3uab4) id i3J884g17910; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:08:04 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <408388E4.8050705@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:08:04 +0200 X-Sybari-Trust: d1a1aba1 2c4885b5 2f9c3433 00000138 From: Bengt Kleberg User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (X11/20040212) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? References: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <656bfb87ceafc87851aad1710302a2c8@vitanuova.com> <20040418105607.GC30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> In-Reply-To: <20040418105607.GC30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Apr 2004 08:15:25.0798 (UTC) FILETIME=[77ED9060:01C425E6] Uriel wrote: >On Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 10:27:20AM +0100, C H Forsyth wrote: > > > >And, of course, we are all waiting for the "mythical" Inferno book ;) >(Any news about that? other than Amazon's for ever changing "publication >date"...) > > i may have misunderstood, but there is a book. a good book, imho. ''inferno programming with limbo'', by phillip stanley-marbell. isbn 0-470-84352-7 or are you refering to something else? bengt From 9srv.net!a Mon Apr 19 09:53:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Mon Apr 19 09:53:45 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.104] ([193.195.87.250]) by 9srv.net; Mon Apr 19 04:48:27 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <408388E4.8050705@ericsson.com> References: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <656bfb87ceafc87851aad1710302a2c8@vitanuova.com> <20040418105607.GC30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> <408388E4.8050705@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <4D74DCE4-91DE-11D8-B2B9-000A95DA79F6@9srv.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:48:17 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) while i've not read pip's book, there's another one (started by rob and ???, finished by VN) which keeps having its availability date moved out (typically, on the old date). i've read several drafts, and am interested to read the final. if it ever becomes better than vaporware. From binarydream.org!uriell Mon Apr 19 09:56:33 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from server4.lensbuddy.com ([212.100.255.31]) by doppio; Mon Apr 19 09:56:33 BST 2004 Received: by server4.lensbuddy.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 731452803903; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:51:17 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:51:17 +0100 From: Uriel To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Message-ID: <20040419085117.GA26438@server4.lensbuddy.com> Mail-Followup-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <656bfb87ceafc87851aad1710302a2c8@vitanuova.com> <20040418105607.GC30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> <408388E4.8050705@ericsson.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <408388E4.8050705@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 10:08:04AM +0200, Bengt Kleberg wrote: > or are you refering to something else? Yes, to this one: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0470849711/ The Inferno Programming Book: An Introduction to Programming for the Inferno Distributed System by Martin Atkins, Rob Pike, Howard Trickey I have been waiting for it 2 years or more :( Best wishes uriel From vitanuova.com!michael Mon Apr 19 11:09:55 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 62.254.170.97 ([62.254.170.97]) by doppio; Mon Apr 19 11:09:55 BST 2004 Message-ID: <00ba01c42637$85afe350$220101c8@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <656bfb87ceafc87851aad1710302a2c8@vitanuova.com> <20040418105607.GC30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> <408388E4.8050705@ericsson.com> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:55:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > i may have misunderstood, but there is a book. a good book, imho. You are right pip's book has been out for quite some time and is a good read. The book that was started by Pike and Trickey has had a lot of work done on it by Dr. Martin Atkins and further revisions by Charles. It is not finished but is not far off, unfortunately it is playing second fiddle to rather more urgent tasks. I hope we can get it complete and published soon. From vitanuova.com!michael Mon Apr 19 20:49:25 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 158.152.8.115 ([158.152.8.115]) by doppio; Mon Apr 19 20:49:25 BST 2004 Message-ID: <002c01c42688$79b6fe20$7308989e@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <656bfb87ceafc87851aad1710302a2c8@vitanuova.com> <20040418105607.GC30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> <408388E4.8050705@ericsson.com> <00ba01c42637$85afe350$220101c8@MICHAEL> Subject: Licence clarification Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:35:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 I hope to make some amendments to our web site either tomorrow or Wednesday that will clarify the licence questions that have been raised over the weekend and earlier. From vitanuova.com!michael Mon Apr 19 22:22:01 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 158.152.8.115 ([158.152.8.115]) by doppio; Mon Apr 19 22:22:01 BST 2004 Message-ID: <004601c42695$697abad0$7308989e@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <33125.67.85.61.176.1082347349.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:06:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Dharani raises some simple questions for which I haven't yet found simple answers. But here are a few observations. > how can we retain existing users and attract more and more people? > these days license is one of the important deciding factors for choosing a > technology. as rob put it well, linux succeeded because of 'open-source' > concept not because of its greatness. Licence alone is not the solution: I am certain that even if you GPL'd Inferno you would not attract a substantial following. My sense of it is that Linux has done the licence revolution and to try and compete on that basis smacks of 'horses stable doors and too late'; it may have been just possible in 1997. If Inferno is to be successfull, and still around in 2008, then it will be because it ploughs its own furrow and does not compromise its design to compete with short lived fads or try and compete in areas that do not require all of its strengths. So what is it that Inferno does so well? Even after seven years Inferno is still by far (in my opinion) the most efficaious technology for creating distributed systems across heterogenous environments. Coincidentally it is an efficient and yet small embedded OS, has a concurrent safe programming language that is a joy to write in, an efficient virtual machine and a cross-compiler suite that is remarkable in contrast to the giant that is gcc. Distributed systems throughout the 90s was a neglected area of computing, as we satisfied our appetite for all things http. More recently there has been renewed interest, and a new name: Grid Computing. So once again people are investigating ways of creating distributed systems. However much of what is being developed is a recapitulation of the now well worn and ineffective RPC approach that includes technologies such as Corba, JXTA and Web Services. And here lies the > i do like inferno. personally, i spend my free time advising and helping > college students to understand and use plan 9 and inferno/limbo. Education is important and I am grateful to all the academics who use Inferno/Plan 9 as part of their teaching programs. My hope is that Inferno will become as much a byword for distributed computing as Linux has become for open source licensing. Michael From cs.indiana.edu!geobrown Mon Apr 19 22:42:18 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu ([129.79.254.191]) by doppio; Mon Apr 19 22:42:18 BST 2004 Received: from cs.indiana.edu (bl-csci-54207.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.246.133]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUCS_2.61) with ESMTP id i3JLawAN009613 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:36:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40844673.9050004@cs.indiana.edu> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:36:51 -0500 From: Geoffrey Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? References: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <33125.67.85.61.176.1082347349.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <004601c42695$697abad0$7308989e@MICHAEL> In-Reply-To: <004601c42695$697abad0$7308989e@MICHAEL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As an academic who's recently used Inferno in a class, I can think of a couple of impediments to greater adoption off hand. 1) The C based code needs to be made more portable. The Ken Thompson compilers may be wonderful, but that only helps when there is a compiler available. I recently went through the process of porting Inferno to the Altera Nios (functioning, but not yet robust). A large part of the work was modifying the non-standard C. Porting the compiler wouldn't have been an effective choice since the entire tool chain (most specifically the debugger support) was gnu based. 2) Continue the fine work of making the file system protocol accessible outside of Inferno. Libstyx is a good start. Client libraries might help also. Honestly, I think the file system model is one of the greatest strengths. 3) Develop a device drivers manual. There's a fine device model, but it takes some real understanding of Inferno/Plan 9 to know where to look. It also takes reading a lot of code. 4) Make it easier to use Inferno without Limbo. Limbo is a fine language, but you've doubled the sales effort if using Inferno requires adopting a new OS and a new programming language. 5) You need an up to date book. The old Bell Labs book is somewhat inconsistent with respect to release 4. "Inferno Programming with Limbo" isn't bad, but really just scratches the surface. Geoffrey Brown Michael Jeffrey wrote: >Dharani raises some simple questions for which I haven't yet found simple >answers. But here are a few observations. > > > >>how can we retain existing users and attract more and more people? >>these days license is one of the important deciding factors for choosing a >>technology. as rob put it well, linux succeeded because of 'open-source' >>concept not because of its greatness. >> >> > >Licence alone is not the solution: I am certain that even if you GPL'd >Inferno >you would not attract a substantial following. My sense of it is that Linux >has done the licence revolution and to try and compete on that basis smacks >of 'horses stable doors and too late'; it may have been just possible in >1997. > >If Inferno is to be successfull, and still around in 2008, then it will be >because >it ploughs its own furrow and does not compromise its design to compete >with short lived fads or try and compete in areas that do not require all of >its >strengths. > >So what is it that Inferno does so well? Even after seven years Inferno is >still by far (in my opinion) the most efficaious technology for creating >distributed systems across heterogenous environments. Coincidentally it >is an efficient and yet small embedded OS, has a concurrent safe programming >language that is a joy to write in, an efficient virtual machine and a >cross-compiler >suite that is remarkable in contrast to the giant that is gcc. > >Distributed systems throughout the 90s was a neglected area >of computing, as we satisfied our appetite for all things http. More >recently >there has been renewed interest, and a new name: Grid Computing. So once >again people are investigating ways of creating distributed systems. >However >much of what is being developed is a recapitulation of the now well worn >and ineffective RPC approach that includes technologies such as Corba, >JXTA and Web Services. And here lies the > > > >>i do like inferno. personally, i spend my free time advising and helping >>college students to understand and use plan 9 and inferno/limbo. >> >> > >Education is important and I am grateful to all the academics who use >Inferno/Plan 9 as part of their teaching programs. > >My hope is that Inferno will become as much a byword for distributed >computing as Linux has become for open source licensing. > >Michael > > From xaplos.com!macrod Mon Apr 19 23:47:42 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf05aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.53]) by doppio; Mon Apr 19 23:47:42 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040419215831.OJAU1832.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:58:31 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:58:25 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <40844673.9050004@cs.indiana.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcQmV2V+kOrbSkJsQ36wbJ8gL9jCggAAagFA Message-Id: <20040419215831.OJAU1832.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > 1) The C based code needs to be made more portable. The Ken Thompson > compilers may be wonderful, but > that only helps when there is a compiler available. I recently went > through the process of porting Inferno to > the Altera Nios (functioning, but not yet robust). A large part of the > work was modifying the non-standard C. Porting the compiler wouldn't > have been an effective choice since the entire tool chain (most > specifically the debugger support) was gnu based. Very much interested in your work with the Altera Nios. We are using the Cyclone processor and I was thinking about how to get Inferno to run on our dev board for some experiments and possible use in several projects we are working on. Thanks, -Mark From gmail.com!russcox Tue Apr 20 00:17:56 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.243]) by doppio; Tue Apr 20 00:17:56 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so4408cwb for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.32 with SMTP id x32mr12008cwb; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:12:38 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <33125.67.85.61.176.1082347349.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <004601c42695$697abad0$7308989e@MICHAEL> <40844673.9050004@cs.indiana.edu> > 2) Continue the fine work of making the file system protocol accessible > outside of Inferno. Libstyx is a good start. Client > libraries might help also. Honestly, I think the file system model is > one of the greatest strengths. There are client libraries for 9P (which might as well be Styx since I punt on authentication) in the Plan 9 ports as "libfs", if anyone is interested in not reinventing the wheel. I've also been working on making acid work with the various non-Plan 9 compilers out there, which is a big help if you're going to start porting the kernels to other compilers. Russ From ece.cmu.edu!pstanley Tue Apr 20 00:45:25 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Tue Apr 20 00:45:25 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.75.127] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.75.127]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B924B3; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:40:08 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <40844673.9050004@cs.indiana.edu> References: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <33125.67.85.61.176.1082347349.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <004601c42695$697abad0$7308989e@MICHAEL> <40844673.9050004@cs.indiana.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: phillip stanley-marbell Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:40:06 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) "Inferno Programming with Limbo" tries to fill a large gap --- as an Inferno tutorial, a text on Limbo programming and a self contained reference. I'm quite satisfied with how it turned out given when it was written and published (almost 2 years ago now). It is being used as the reference text for a course here at CMU, and the differences with regards to the 4th edition distribution (which is what is being used for the class) cause no discomfit; The students seemed to like it much. In addition to a new revision of IPWL due late '04/early '05, we're also busy working on another text to replace IPWL in the course here. The material in the new book is specifically about building distributed applications around the emulator, and gives a thorough coverage of the emulator architecture and sources, and using it to build applications on Windows/MacOS/Linux// etc. We find it to be a particularly elegant approach, with the applications written in LImbo and C. We wish the Pike/Trickey/Atkins/Forsyth book would come out soon, to reduce the urgency of doing a revision of IPWL so we can focus on the new text which we are quite excited about. cheers, phillip Dept. of ECE, Carnegie Mellon | http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~pstanley On Apr 19, 2004, at 5:36 PM, Geoffrey Brown wrote: > 5) You need an up to date book. The old Bell Labs book is somewhat > inconsistent with respect to release 4. "Inferno Programming with > Limbo" > isn't bad, but really just scratches the surface. From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Tue Apr 20 01:49:25 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Tue Apr 20 01:49:25 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:44:08 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.222.199]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:44:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:44:06 -0700 References: AAwRmbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040419T174406Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Apr 2004 00:44:07.0921 (UTC) FILETIME=[96AB2E10:01C42670] All this talk sounds like we're giving up on Inferno as an OS, and trying = to rather rework it's strengths for integration into more mainstream = systems... am I wrong? Development will still continue on the core OS, = right? >>> Russ Cox 4/19/2004 3:12:38 PM >>> > 2) Continue the fine work of making the file system protocol accessible > outside of Inferno. Libstyx is a good start. Client > libraries might help also. Honestly, I think the file system model is > one of the greatest strengths. There are client libraries for 9P (which might as well be Styx since I punt on authentication) in the Plan 9 ports as "libfs", if anyone is interested in not reinventing the wheel. I've also been working on making acid work with the various non-Plan 9 compilers out there, which is a big help if you're going to start porting the kernels to other compilers. Russ From comcast.net!battelle Tue Apr 20 02:55:31 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.202.55]) by doppio; Tue Apr 20 02:55:31 BST 2004 Received: from battamd64 (c-24-5-8-120.client.comcast.net[24.5.8.120]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004042001501401100k1bdre> (Authid: battelle); Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:50:14 +0000 From: "Joe Battelle" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:50:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Thread-Index: AcQmcV3Lr+6vWaj1QkqwH1J5VbF/BwAASD0g In-Reply-To: <20040419T174406Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> >All this talk sounds like we're giving up on Inferno as an OS, and trying to rather rework it's >strengths for integration into more mainstream systems... am I wrong? Development will still >continue on the core OS, right? There really are two infernos built from the same source--the inferno that is great for embedded systems, and the inferno that is great for doing crossplatform hosted (distributed/grid) apps, that indeed already run well on mainstream systems. I think both are being enhanced tremendously in the 4th release. Keep in mind, that a lot of this "talk" has centered around wanting it to be easier to bring the outside hosted environment in, by providing better documentation and libraries for creating device drivers and file systems in C and other languages. This doesn't re-orient the inferno system proper at all. The real strength of inferno is not one particular feature, either of the OS or limbo language, but rather that the whole package is really (comparatively) simple to understand, maintain and enhance. Granted, my measure of simplicity is "does an expert programmer feel like he can make modifications to absolutely any part of the system with a high probability of success using only the source code as reference and a 1-3 month learning curve." I don't think there are that many OS components or tools that meet that criteria--be they open or closed. In my book, Inferno shines in this area. Joe From ti.com!cbarrera Tue Apr 20 04:26:34 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from dragon.ti.com ([192.94.94.33]) by doppio; Tue Apr 20 04:26:34 BST 2004 Received: from dmhp30.itg.ti.com ([134.183.41.209]) by dragon.ti.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3K3LGoR025540 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:21:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ti.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dmhp30.itg.ti.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3K3LFkO000380 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:21:16 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <408497A2.3020801@ti.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:23:14 +0900 From: Christopher Barrera User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Wmclient vs Tkclient References: <4b71b32f016e4e20e91c09f21fa62d20@plan9.ucalgary.ca> <003501c42237$ae86c4f0$220101c8@MICHAEL> In-Reply-To: <003501c42237$ae86c4f0$220101c8@MICHAEL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have seen this question come up a few times in the list, usually from the VN folx. Perhaps y'all are trying to test the waters of how people feel about printed manuals. For the subscription price last year, the printed manuals being added made it an extremely good value. However, I for one, do not feel strongly about having them. If all Inferno documentation was kept up to date, in a very well organized, indexed, and searchable format, available electronically, that would keep me happy. Such documentation could be included with each inferno package/download, and available online from the website. Especially nice, though, if an all electronic distribution of the documentation was created, would be PDF versions so that people could print their own hardcopies. Much documentation is already PDF, but I don't recall if the man pages were available in that format. If not producing printed manuals allowed VN to focus more time and capital to more fruitful efforts, I would not complain. One more possibility, there are many online bookpublishers who will print hardcopies on demand. Sometimes it is nice to have hardcopies and not print one's own, that is another alternative. My two yen, Michael Jeffrey wrote: > >We might do it later this year and at the same time we will >decide whether to produce a printed version of the 4th Edition >manuals. > > > > > From terzarima.net!forsyth Tue Apr 20 08:01:15 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Tue Apr 20 08:01:15 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Wmclient vs Tkclient From: Charles Forsyth Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:54:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: <408497A2.3020801@ti.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>One more possibility, there are many online bookpublishers who >>will print hardcopies on demand. Sometimes it is nice to have >>hardcopies and not print one's own, that is another alternative. i've always found hard copy much easier to browse, to get a good overview of a system at the start (as I found for instance for 4th/5th Edition Unix and then later for 7th Edition when many things had changed or been added). that was true for several other systems i have used. once i know that from a good read, however, i nearly always leave the books on the shelf, and rely on the electronic versions (and that was true for me for Unix from the start). the importance of the overview read for me was that, having read through once, i would remember at least vaguely that i had seen a library function/system call/command to do such-and-such and would know to go back to look for it (in print or electronically) if i ever had a need for it. for Windows, by contrast, where i have had no such overview, i really have no idea what the overall structure might be, or even whether there is one, even though the on-line documentation for the standard Windows things is not bad. i thought myself that on-demand publication might work (it also has the advantage that the content of the hard copy when bought is potentially quite close to that of the electronic version at that time). they weren't really available when we started. even now for the few i've looked at we are close to the limit of the size they can handle, but probably i just need to look more thoroughly. (the Manual Pages volume could also be split, of course.) the current on-line manual pages are kept reasonably up-to-date-- if something is currently undocumented it might be intentional, the missing freetype(2) being one of the exceptions that i've only just noticed-- but for some reason the papers are not. From binarydream.org!uriell Tue Apr 20 09:03:41 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from server4.lensbuddy.com ([212.100.255.31]) by doppio; Tue Apr 20 09:03:41 BST 2004 Received: by server4.lensbuddy.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 83F582803903; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:58:24 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:58:24 +0100 From: Uriel To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Message-ID: <20040420075824.GC26438@server4.lensbuddy.com> Mail-Followup-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: <20040416T134430Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> <20040416211359.GA30337@server4.lensbuddy.com> <33210.68.173.27.208.1082250226.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> <3653.199.98.20.221.1082254204.squirrel@wish> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3653.199.98.20.221.1082254204.squirrel@wish> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i On Sat, Apr 17, 2004 at 10:10:04PM -0400, Joel Salomon wrote: > Update: it's abandonware, all right. Stuff in cvs not been touched for 7 > months - http://sourceforge.net/projects/acheron-l/ > Supposed to be a compiler for limbo. Another update ;) After closer examination, the last CVS change is from 2 weeks ago, so probably it's not so dead... yet ;) See: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/acheron-l/acheron/src/?sortby=date Interestingly it is written in ML, I will give it a try later... Best wishes uriel From vitanuova.com!michael Tue Apr 20 11:07:39 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 62.254.170.97 ([62.254.170.97]) by doppio; Tue Apr 20 11:07:39 BST 2004 Message-ID: <00c701c42700$5e2b0f20$220101c8@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: AAwRmbBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf <20040419T174406Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:53:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Huntsman" To: Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? > All this talk sounds like we're giving up on Inferno as an OS, and trying to rather rework it's strengths for integration into more mainstream systems... am I wrong? > Development will still continue on the core OS, right? Yes you are wrong. Inferno's effectiveness in creating distributed systems across existing platforms is predicated on it providing a complete OS environment. It is interesting that quite a number of more recent academic projects looking into distributed systems (I can think of AOS, Agile and Harmony off hand) have concluded that the problems associated with distribution should and will be solved by a portable operating system environment and that there is not an adequate solution that is based solely on linguistics or protocol. So whether we work on systems based on emu, or native Inferno kernels the importance of the OS is the same. Ever since the creation of the Lucent Inferno BU (1997) there have been voices suggesting that the breadth of Inferno be reduced: the ports, Limbo even Styx. But this would be death by a thousand cuts. From cs.indiana.edu!geobrown Tue Apr 20 16:27:31 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu ([129.79.254.191]) by doppio; Tue Apr 20 16:27:31 BST 2004 Received: from cs.indiana.edu (bl-csci-54207.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.246.133]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUCS_2.61) with ESMTP id i3KFMDbg028065 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:22:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40854020.5080107@cs.indiana.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:22:08 -0500 From: Geoffrey Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? References: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <33125.67.85.61.176.1082347349.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <004601c42695$697abad0$7308989e@MICHAEL> <40844673.9050004@cs.indiana.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've inadvertently touched a nerve. IPWL is a fine book, but as you point out it has a large gap to fill. I look forward to your new effort. Geoffrey phillip stanley-marbell wrote: > "Inferno Programming with Limbo" tries to fill a large gap --- as an > Inferno > tutorial, a text on Limbo programming and a self contained reference. > I'm > quite satisfied with how it turned out given when it was written and > published > (almost 2 years ago now). It is being used as the reference text for a > course here at CMU, and the differences with regards to the 4th edition > distribution (which is what is being used for the class) cause no > discomfit; > The students seemed to like it much. > > In addition to a new revision of IPWL due late '04/early '05, we're also > busy working on another text to replace IPWL in the course here. The > material in the new book is specifically about building distributed > applications around the emulator, and gives a thorough coverage > of the emulator architecture and sources, and using it to build > applications > on Windows/MacOS/Linux// etc. We find it to be a particularly > elegant approach, with the applications written in LImbo and C. > > We wish the Pike/Trickey/Atkins/Forsyth book would come out > soon, to reduce the urgency of doing a revision of IPWL so we > can focus on the new text which we are quite excited about. > > cheers, > phillip > > > Dept. of ECE, Carnegie Mellon | http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~pstanley > > > > On Apr 19, 2004, at 5:36 PM, Geoffrey Brown wrote: > >> 5) You need an up to date book. The old Bell Labs book is somewhat >> inconsistent with respect to release 4. "Inferno Programming with >> Limbo" >> isn't bad, but really just scratches the surface. > From ece.cmu.edu!pstanley Tue Apr 20 17:10:29 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Tue Apr 20 17:10:29 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.67.147] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.67.147]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22A00D1; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:05:12 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <40854020.5080107@cs.indiana.edu> References: <011747735d2be8bf6917086e7e726e34@terzarima.net> <33125.67.85.61.176.1082347349.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <004601c42695$697abad0$7308989e@MICHAEL> <40844673.9050004@cs.indiana.edu> <40854020.5080107@cs.indiana.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <803F3F89-92E4-11D8-86B0-000A95C53D8A@ece.cmu.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: phillip stanley-marbell Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:05:10 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Not at all. I just figured i'd take the opportunity to say more than I usually do, and discuss some of the projects currently in the pipeline. cheers, phillip Dept. of ECE, Carnegie Mellon | http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~pstanley On Apr 20, 2004, at 11:22 AM, Geoffrey Brown wrote: > I've inadvertently touched a nerve. IPWL is a fine book, but as you > point > out it has a large gap to fill. I look forward to your new effort. > > Geoffrey From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed Apr 21 17:29:53 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed Apr 21 17:29:53 BST 2004 Message-ID: <9ba615c9dee9c73bee8bb3fc998cb55c@terzarima.net> From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:23:53 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? In-Reply-To: <20040419T174406Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>All this talk sounds like we're giving up on Inferno as an OS, >>and trying to rather rework it's strengths for integration into >>more mainstream systems... am I wrong? >>Development will still continue on the core OS, right? yes, it will indeed. From rog Wed Apr 21 18:10:10 BST 2004 remote from presto To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:10:10 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <4107.165.247.50.30.1082317208.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > the systems really are similar enough that they should be 100% > interoperable from an external interface point of view, and pretty > darned close internally. i *should* be able to mount one systems > /dev/draw from the other and have it do rational things. you can. the problem comes when window managers and input are added into the equation. i did have inferno running using plan 9's draw device directly (windows being created via rio). a change to inferno broke this and i'm still thinking about decent ways to fix it, sadly. From rog Wed Apr 21 18:13:32 BST 2004 remote from presto To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Debugging Native Inferno Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:13:32 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <20040416155346.VBDX1773.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I just ran the 'default' makefile and didn't notice any options for > optimization (i.e., -O0, -O2, etc.). I also didn't see anything about > optimization flag settings in the man entry for the compiler. Can I turn > on/off optimization (-O0) so I can easily debug the kernel on the target > board? with the inferno compilers, optimisation is on by default. the -N flag switches it off. From forsyth Wed Apr 21 18:16:00 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Debugging Native Inferno From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:16:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wniqvsachwvszcnebqamxcxjdf" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wniqvsachwvszcnebqamxcxjdf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit which we never do because it has never in my experience broken anything (or else we'd have fixed it), or indeed complicated debugging; so much so i had to look up the -N option! --upas-wniqvsachwvszcnebqamxcxjdf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:13:32 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <20040416155346.VBDX1773.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Debugging Native Inferno Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk > I just ran the 'default' makefile and didn't notice any options for > optimization (i.e., -O0, -O2, etc.). I also didn't see anything about > optimization flag settings in the man entry for the compiler. Can I turn > on/off optimization (-O0) so I can easily debug the kernel on the target > board? with the inferno compilers, optimisation is on by default. the -N flag switches it off. --upas-wniqvsachwvszcnebqamxcxjdf-- From 9srv.net!a Wed Apr 21 18:17:34 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Wed Apr 21 18:17:34 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.180] ([193.195.87.250]) by 9srv.net; Wed Apr 21 13:12:15 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <078D2E92-93B7-11D8-ADAC-000A95DA79F6@9srv.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:12:12 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) >> the systems really are similar enough that they should be 100% >> interoperable from an external interface point of view, and pretty >> darned close internally. i *should* be able to mount one systems >> /dev/draw from the other and have it do rational things. > > you can. the problem comes when window managers > and input are added into the equation. and authentication? or am i (happily) mistaken? From forsyth Wed Apr 21 18:45:18 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:45:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: <078D2E92-93B7-11D8-ADAC-000A95DA79F6@9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bdhbrpdmdycqcjcafdcajqnlyv" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bdhbrpdmdycqcjcafdcajqnlyv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit most plan 9 services within a machine don't authenticate, so mount -A (in inferno) and mount (in Plan 9) would work, and indeed i've mounted /srv/9660 within Inferno when testing the protocol changes in the first place. BUT: you'd better be absolutely certain that the same connection (eg, /srv/... under plan 9) is not used by both Plan 9 and Inferno for mounts. it's the same the other way. each system needs a connection to the other that only it uses for mounts. that's because each system will expect to assign tags and fids. if you're running under plan 9, bind /mnt/factotum to /usr/inferno/mnt/factotum (or your local equivalent) before starting inferno (you can also bind it in after you've started using #U). then you can use the commands of import(4): import will run the odd, somewhat wonky protocol that plan 9's exportfs uses, including authentication to set up line encryption, interacting with plan 9's factotum as required (in the inferno name space), to import whatever your plan 9 system exports. i've used it to import our office Internet interface into Inferno at home. 9export will run the odd, somewhat wonky protocol that plan 9's import uses, etc. to export inferno trees to Plan 9. finally, mount -9 will mount plan 9 file servers, again using plan 9's factotum as required, including the Tauth/Rauth stuff if needed. there isn't any line encryption because plan 9's original file server didn't support it. i have mounted a file system connection from work's plan 9 file server into my inferno system at home, using il/ip. these commands get a fair bit of the way in both directions, provided you've got a plan 9 factotum. it's also possible to go the other way, but i need some programs to extract public/private key data, and also to give Plan 9's factotum some more instruction, to be able authenticate in the other direction using public keys etc. that remains to be done. then there's putting p9any and p9sk* into the Auth9 module so they can be accessed by Inferno to authenticate to plan 9 when there is no local plan 9 present. that also remains to be done. otherwise the authentication models are rather different, so this is less for convergence than being able to interoperate reasonably. inferno's is public key based; plan 9's is not, currently. i have some other work on my to do list for managing inferno authentication amongst a collection of domains (loosely defined), signers, etc. --upas-bdhbrpdmdycqcjcafdcajqnlyv Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Wed Apr 21 18:17:34 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.180] ([193.195.87.250]) by 9srv.net; Wed Apr 21 13:12:15 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <078D2E92-93B7-11D8-ADAC-000A95DA79F6@9srv.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Anthony Sorace Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:12:12 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk >> the systems really are similar enough that they should be 100% >> interoperable from an external interface point of view, and pretty >> darned close internally. i *should* be able to mount one systems >> /dev/draw from the other and have it do rational things. > > you can. the problem comes when window managers > and input are added into the equation. and authentication? or am i (happily) mistaken? --upas-bdhbrpdmdycqcjcafdcajqnlyv-- From binarydream.org!uriell Wed Apr 21 20:58:38 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from server4.lensbuddy.com ([212.100.255.31]) by doppio; Wed Apr 21 20:58:38 BST 2004 Received: by server4.lensbuddy.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 1C91F2803903; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:53:21 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:53:21 +0100 From: Uriel To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Message-ID: <20040421195321.GK26438@server4.lensbuddy.com> Mail-Followup-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: <4107.165.247.50.30.1082317208.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> <4ffb31fbee0b64d9074a430248e2ca79@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4ffb31fbee0b64d9074a430248e2ca79@vitanuova.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 06:10:10PM +0100, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > > the systems really are similar enough that they should be 100% > > interoperable from an external interface point of view, and pretty > > darned close internally. Allow me to cast another vote for the great Plan 9-Inferno merge ;) > you can. the problem comes when window managers > and input are added into the equation. > > i did have inferno running using plan 9's draw device > directly (windows being created via rio). I would _love_ this. And for other host-OSes, replacing wm with a rio clone would be a big improvement. IMHO wm is ugly and it's usability is almost worse than other WIMP GUIs, even if acme takes most my screen, I still would like to have rio around it... BTW, why is that the 'root' wm window can't be resized? if I run a nested wm it can be resized without problems... Best wishes uriel From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed Apr 21 21:23:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed Apr 21 21:23:20 BST 2004 Message-ID: <54322446d4fd278b91a757e280d7485e@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:14:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040421195321.GK26438@server4.lensbuddy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > the systems really are similar enough that they should be 100% > > interoperable from an external interface point of view, and pretty > > darned close internally. > Allow me to cast another vote for the great Plan 9-Inferno merge ;) at a fundamental level, particularly the process model, they aren't close enough internally to be `merged'. that's one reason why making Limbo/Inferno more `native' on plan 9 would require changes to plan 9, including the kernel. i don't know how extensive they would be, but there would need to be finer control over sharing of resources, similar to the Osenv in the Inferno implementation (or something else functionally similar). >>And for other host-OSes, replacing wm with a rio clone would be a big >>improvement. i'm not sure that rio really is what is required for a good interface, apart from the colour conventions. it's rather tedious on an iPAQ for instance. even on plan 9, i hardly use it myself for the more interesting applications. sweeping out a typescript window with a shell, then running a command in it, doesn't seem all that fluid: certainly on Plan 9 i use page -w more often than page in a window, for instance (except by accident), and usually by plumbed operations. that's not really a complaint about rio for its own environment, more a comment that i don't think it is the answer for inferno. if we'd had a really good answer i suppose we'd have implemented it but at least now the window system implementation is in Limbo, where it is easier to change. it's also quite small, and modular. perhaps more extensive use of plumbing or something like it would be effective. >>BTW, why is that the 'root' wm window can't be resized? if I run a >>nested wm it can be resized without problems... that should be fixed eventually. it's because the draw device needs to allow the `physical' screen to be resized. drawterm cheats by allocating a full screen full behind the scenes. that's why you can reshape things `off' the screen. From rog Wed Apr 21 21:28:03 BST 2004 remote from presto To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:28:03 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <20040421195321.GK26438@server4.lensbuddy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i agree wm is ugly - it's not much code though! if you know what sort of thing you're after (i haven't decided myself), then it's only a few days' work to build a new one. much of the code in /appl/wm/wm.b would remain unchanged. building a rio-lookalike inferno wm would be nice little exercise. > BTW, why is that the 'root' wm window can't be resized? if I run a > nested wm it can be resized without problems... because deep inside inferno, it thinks that the root window is the underlying display. and just like plan 9, the underlying display cannot be resized (they use the same code, largely). how to deal with host-level windows is an open question. there's not only the question of display, but also of input management, and the interaction with external agents. under plan 9 it's easy, because the models are similar. under windows? linux? i'm not sure yet. From gmail.com!russcox Wed Apr 21 21:46:17 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.252]) by doppio; Wed Apr 21 21:46:17 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so4290cwb for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.66 with SMTP id v66mr14826cwb; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:34:12 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: > because deep inside inferno, it thinks that the root window > is the underlying display. and just like plan 9, the underlying > display cannot be resized (they use the same code, largely). i had to fix this in order to make the various plan 9 ported apps like 9term and acme work properly. the changes could go back into the two kernels and drawterm if someone was motivated enough and had sufficient time. russ From infernopark.com!vdharani Wed Apr 21 21:47:53 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ensim.rackshack.net ([216.127.72.23]) by doppio; Wed Apr 21 21:47:53 BST 2004 Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3LN0PZ29200 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:00:25 -0400 Received: from 192.11.226.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <62412.192.11.226.116.1082588425.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: To: In-Reply-To: <54322446d4fd278b91a757e280d7485e@terzarima.net> References: <54322446d4fd278b91a757e280d7485e@terzarima.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>>BTW, why is that the 'root' wm window can't be resized? if I run a >>>nested wm it can be resized without problems... > > that should be fixed eventually. it's because the draw device needs to > allow the `physical' screen to be resized. drawterm cheats by > allocating a full screen full behind the scenes. that's why you can > reshape things `off' the screen. mmm, i didnt know it is this simple. it would be nice if this is fixed. it becomes tough when you have to resize, otherwise. the other thing i was always wondering is, why cant i restart graphics after i exited graphics window? is it difficult to fix it? what is the actual problem? also, i think rog once mentioned about multiple windows as well. that would be a cool feature. is it in plan or is it a 'wouldn't it be nice' one? regards dharani From rog Wed Apr 21 21:49:03 BST 2004 remote from presto To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:49:03 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pdpgtmgxsttspbemzoenltxjhc" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pdpgtmgxsttspbemzoenltxjhc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if done, presumably this would mean we could have changeable screen resolutions under plan 9... wooee. do you remember what the main changes were? --upas-pdpgtmgxsttspbemzoenltxjhc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.252]) by doppio; Wed Apr 21 21:46:17 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so4290cwb for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.66 with SMTP id v66mr14826cwb; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:34:12 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk > because deep inside inferno, it thinks that the root window > is the underlying display. and just like plan 9, the underlying > display cannot be resized (they use the same code, largely). i had to fix this in order to make the various plan 9 ported apps like 9term and acme work properly. the changes could go back into the two kernels and drawterm if someone was motivated enough and had sufficient time. russ --upas-pdpgtmgxsttspbemzoenltxjhc-- From infernopark.com!vdharani Wed Apr 21 21:55:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ensim.rackshack.net ([216.127.72.23]) by doppio; Wed Apr 21 21:55:36 BST 2004 Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3LN89Z29235 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:08:09 -0400 Received: from 192.11.226.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33794.192.11.226.116.1082588889.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: drawterm+plan9+inferno+acme = crawl From: To: In-Reply-To: <6746c390ad87f01d225f6d108ca5df69@vitanuova.com> References: <6746c390ad87f01d225f6d108ca5df69@vitanuova.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi, when i run drawterm on windows and access plan9 machine, run inferno emu and then run acme on it, i see that acme is too slow to use. i see that drawterm itself is fast enough for plan 9 related activities except that acme on inferno is too slow. is anyone facing this problem? what is the actual reason? where is the bottleneck? drawterm, plan 9, inferno or acme? what can be done to speed it up? any help appreciated. thanks dharani From xaplos.com!macrod Wed Apr 21 22:07:58 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.64]) by doppio; Wed Apr 21 22:07:58 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040421175139.YUNB1818.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:51:39 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Debugging Native Inferno Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:51:25 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcQnx8f2uZ9pKGmlRQi8NMvIUNL6pQAAG1jw Message-Id: <20040421175139.YUNB1818.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > which we never do because it has never in my experience broken > anything (or else we'd have fixed it), or indeed complicated debugging; > so much so i had to look up the -N option! I'm still in the process of getting up to speed with Inferno so this may not be applicable, but if I develop a new lib (let's say libbt for Bluetooth) wouldn't I need to debug this using Acid or some other tool? I have a few colleagues that don't use debuggers at all, but I'm not that good of a programmer so I'd like to set breakpoints inside the kernel or custom library (or other libraries for learning) and single step through the code. Turning off any optimizations will make this task much easier. Thanks, -Mark From forsyth Wed Apr 21 22:26:03 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:26:03 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? In-Reply-To: <20040421195321.GK26438@server4.lensbuddy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>IMHO wm is ugly and it's usability is almost worse than other WIMP GUIs, the ugliness i think i can understand, but i use windows a fair bit (and it's also ugly), and for what i do i don't see much difference in (absence of) usability. that's to say i mainly use the start button, and Inferno's seems about the same to me. Windows' active task buttons on the task bar are probably more useful than Inferno's because they allow quick switching between things with the mouse, except of course when everything covers the task bar (but then again the Windows' task bar effects are patented[!] and so can't safely be copied). i was just curious what things you might have noticed. From comcast.net!battelle Wed Apr 21 22:47:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net ([216.148.227.85]) by doppio; Wed Apr 21 22:47:45 BST 2004 Received: from battamd64 (c-24-5-8-120.client.comcast.net[24.5.8.120]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004042121422701400ie1uhe> (Authid: battelle); Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:42:27 +0000 From: "Joe Battelle" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Debugging Native Inferno Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:42:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <20040421175139.YUNB1818.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Thread-Index: AcQnx8f2uZ9pKGmlRQi8NMvIUNL6pQAAG1jwAAfa3AA= >I'm still in the process of getting up to speed with Inferno so this may not be applicable, but >if I develop a new lib (let's say libbt for Bluetooth) wouldn't I need to debug this using Acid >or some other tool? Depends if your first implementation is for a hosted environment or native inferno. If you are starting with (say) a Windows hosted Inferno device driver and linking that in to emu, you can debug emu with WinDbg (avail. free from MS)--note that the MS compiler is free now as well. WinDbg is nice because you can go from your Ring 3 hosted Inferno device driver to your Ring 0 Windows device driver using the same tool. In any case, I would recommend the Debugging chapter of "The Practice of Programming" for some reasonable advice on using a debugger in general. Joe From rog Thu Apr 22 00:24:34 BST 2004 remote from presto To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:24:34 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <62412.192.11.226.116.1082588425.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > the other thing i was always wondering is, why cant i restart graphics > after i exited graphics window? is it difficult to fix it? what is the > actual problem? that's another symptom of the same problem. > also, i think rog once mentioned about multiple windows as well. that would > be a cool feature. is it in plan or is it a 'wouldn't it be nice' one? i'd like to see this - but there's the small matter of deciding the best way to go about it. there several possibles, and all have their own implications... From gmail.com!russcox Thu Apr 22 00:57:16 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.240]) by doppio; Thu Apr 22 00:57:16 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so5559cwb for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.5 with SMTP id v5mr14696cwb; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:05:18 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <7b53ad5af164b52be560c200d1860c18@vitanuova.com> > do you remember what the main changes were? basically more careful accounting of the root bitmap so we can figure out when all the references are gone. if you diff the devdraw.c from my ports tree http://cvs.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/cvs/plan9/src/libdraw/devdraw.c?rev=HEAD you can probably figure out the relevant code. russ From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu Apr 22 07:12:12 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu Apr 22 07:12:12 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:02:35 +0100 In-Reply-To: <54322446d4fd278b91a757e280d7485e@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>at a fundamental level, particularly the process model, >>they aren't close enough internally to be `merged'. i thought i'd expand on that a little bit, and point out two of the differences i see, though there are others. Inferno provides cheap processes-- a little more expensive than Erlang i think but not much more [and there seems scope for performance improvement]-- and without a distinction between `thread' and `process' by having the implementation sort it out dynamically. more important, though, Plan 9 follows a now conventional model in which domains of memory protection coincide with processes, but Inferno effectively follows an alternative model (still fairly old but now uncommon), explored for instance by Lampson and others, in which processes move through different domains of protection, represented in Limbo by different module instances in the process call stack. thus, if i were to add MMU-based memory protection to Inferno to be able to run arbitrary C code in it (since if you're doing a lot with C, you'll probably want the hardware protection) i'd do it in a significantly different way than in Plan 9: the C code would also move through domains of protection within a single process. From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu Apr 22 09:38:56 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu Apr 22 09:38:56 BST 2004 Message-ID: <2a0011abb306d91b7fd158d626235f20@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] drawterm+plan9+inferno+acme = crawl From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:29:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: <33794.192.11.226.116.1082588889.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-pcceaarzxezvffmmjbugklipgc" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-pcceaarzxezvffmmjbugklipgc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit over what manner of distance and network? --upas-pcceaarzxezvffmmjbugklipgc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Wed Apr 21 21:59:11 BST 2004 Received: from ensim.rackshack.net ([216.127.72.23]) by doppio; Wed Apr 21 21:55:36 BST 2004 Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3LN89Z29235 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:08:09 -0400 Received: from 192.11.226.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33794.192.11.226.116.1082588889.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:08:09 -0400 (EDT) From: To: In-Reply-To: <6746c390ad87f01d225f6d108ca5df69@vitanuova.com> References: <6746c390ad87f01d225f6d108ca5df69@vitanuova.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [inferno-list] drawterm+plan9+inferno+acme = crawl Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk hi, when i run drawterm on windows and access plan9 machine, run inferno emu and then run acme on it, i see that acme is too slow to use. i see that drawterm itself is fast enough for plan 9 related activities except that acme on inferno is too slow. is anyone facing this problem? what is the actual reason? where is the bottleneck? drawterm, plan 9, inferno or acme? what can be done to speed it up? any help appreciated. thanks dharani --upas-pcceaarzxezvffmmjbugklipgc-- From infernopark.com!vdharani Thu Apr 22 12:21:06 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ensim.rackshack.net ([216.127.72.23]) by doppio; Thu Apr 22 12:21:06 BST 2004 Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3MDXmZ32454 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:33:48 -0400 Received: from 67.85.61.176 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <32853.67.85.61.176.1082640828.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] drawterm+plan9+inferno+acme = crawl From: To: In-Reply-To: <2a0011abb306d91b7fd158d626235f20@terzarima.net> References: <2a0011abb306d91b7fd158d626235f20@terzarima.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > over what manner of distance and network? both the machines are right next to one another. earlier i used a hub. thinking that it would be the reason, i connected them through a (fairly cheap) switch. i didnt see any improvement. i also tried to lower the color quality in windows to 16 bits. no difference. here are the graphics details, in case you need it: screen resolution: 1280x1024 color quality: 16 bit chip: Rage128 GL (AGP) DAC type: Internal DAC (350Mhz) memory size: 32MB regards dharani From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu Apr 22 19:28:44 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu Apr 22 19:28:44 BST 2004 Message-ID: <599db5625f8ec95547ec5699b0a4f6b0@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] drawterm+plan9+inferno+acme = crawl From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:24:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: <32853.67.85.61.176.1082640828.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-maverlikhhlsoxnothnnysvhyj" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-maverlikhhlsoxnothnnysvhyj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes, i can see it. i had noticed it on cable but incorrectly thought it was just that but in fact that too should probably perform better. inferno pushes blocks of bytes through to the draw device, the block size being derived from iounit for the draw device connection. i suppose it's related to that but i'll investigate. --upas-maverlikhhlsoxnothnnysvhyj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Thu Apr 22 12:19:53 BST 2004 Received: from ensim.rackshack.net ([216.127.72.23]) by doppio; Thu Apr 22 12:21:06 BST 2004 Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3MDXmZ32454 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:33:48 -0400 Received: from 67.85.61.176 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <32853.67.85.61.176.1082640828.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:33:48 -0400 (EDT) From: To: In-Reply-To: <2a0011abb306d91b7fd158d626235f20@terzarima.net> References: <2a0011abb306d91b7fd158d626235f20@terzarima.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [inferno-list] drawterm+plan9+inferno+acme = crawl Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk > over what manner of distance and network? both the machines are right next to one another. earlier i used a hub. thinking that it would be the reason, i connected them through a (fairly cheap) switch. i didnt see any improvement. i also tried to lower the color quality in windows to 16 bits. no difference. here are the graphics details, in case you need it: screen resolution: 1280x1024 color quality: 16 bit chip: Rage128 GL (AGP) DAC type: Internal DAC (350Mhz) memory size: 32MB regards dharani --upas-maverlikhhlsoxnothnnysvhyj-- From vitanuova.com!michael Fri Apr 23 14:58:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 62.254.170.97 ([62.254.170.97]) by doppio; Fri Apr 23 14:58:28 BST 2004 Message-ID: <004701c4297c$1bbd70a0$220101c8@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: <599db5625f8ec95547ec5699b0a4f6b0@terzarima.net> Subject: Updated licence pages and ordering information Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:44:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 A little later than promised but our web site now has updated licence information and ordering pages for Inferno. http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/licence.html http://cgi.www.vitanuova.com/cgi-bin/www.vitanuova.com/order.pl?PRODUCTSET=INFERNO From cooper.edu!salomo3 Fri Apr 23 16:32:11 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wish.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.74]) by doppio; Fri Apr 23 16:32:11 BST 2004 Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 030F9393B; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:14:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 738623937 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drnick.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.55]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2158.199.98.17.55.1082733294.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <004701c4297c$1bbd70a0$220101c8@MICHAEL> References: <599db5625f8ec95547ec5699b0a4f6b0@terzarima.net> <004701c4297c$1bbd70a0$220101c8@MICHAEL> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information From: "Joel Salomon" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-9.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael Jeffrey said: > > A little later than promised but our web site now has > updated licence information and ordering pages for > Inferno. Is 4e now considered stable? --Joel From vitanuova.com!michael Fri Apr 23 16:44:50 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 62.254.170.97 ([62.254.170.97]) by doppio; Fri Apr 23 16:44:50 BST 2004 Message-ID: <008901c4298a$f78f3600$220101c8@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: <599db5625f8ec95547ec5699b0a4f6b0@terzarima.net> <004701c4297c$1bbd70a0$220101c8@MICHAEL> <2158.199.98.17.55.1082733294.squirrel@wish> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:30:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Yes, for most of the ports. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Salomon" To: Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information Michael Jeffrey said: > > A little later than promised but our web site now has > updated licence information and ordering pages for > Inferno. Is 4e now considered stable? --Joel From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Apr 23 16:51:21 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Apr 23 16:51:21 BST 2004 Message-ID: <55a46f067604dc3fca5a7707b6611db9@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:47:35 +0100 In-Reply-To: <2158.199.98.17.55.1082733294.squirrel@wish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-jieppcweaafvvqbyhxnchdeuvk" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jieppcweaafvvqbyhxnchdeuvk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that depends whether you mean `is it unchanging' or `is it experimental'? i think it is at least as sound as Third Edition, certainly given a few ancient bugs we've fixed, but undoubtedly there will be additions (including native ports), some changes (mainly to extend authentication, i think, which affects relatively few applications directly), and what we hope are improvements. the `preliminary' adjective before `public release' will be removed at or before the next update. i think when i added it last year, i meant it to suggest that it wasn't yet at the stage where we would commit the manual to paper in large quantities, and it would be fair to say that some documents still need updating, as i've noted earlier here. `preliminary' hasn't gone yet not so much because of content, but because i'd like to come to grips with problems people have noted for: - MacOSX - FreeBSD 5.something-that-apparently-breaks - Linux versioning none of which will require big changes, mainly distributing a consistent set. --upas-jieppcweaafvvqbyhxnchdeuvk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Fri Apr 23 16:29:09 BST 2004 Received: from wish.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.74]) by doppio; Fri Apr 23 16:32:11 BST 2004 Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 030F9393B; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:14:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 738623937 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drnick.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.55]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2158.199.98.17.55.1082733294.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <004701c4297c$1bbd70a0$220101c8@MICHAEL> References: <599db5625f8ec95547ec5699b0a4f6b0@terzarima.net> <004701c4297c$1bbd70a0$220101c8@MICHAEL> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:14:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joel Salomon" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-9.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Michael Jeffrey said: > > A little later than promised but our web site now has > updated licence information and ordering pages for > Inferno. Is 4e now considered stable? --Joel --upas-jieppcweaafvvqbyhxnchdeuvk-- From xaplos.com!macrod Fri Apr 23 21:27:16 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.64]) by doppio; Fri Apr 23 21:27:16 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040423174919.XZKI1774.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:49:19 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:49:11 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <004701c4297c$1bbd70a0$220101c8@MICHAEL> Thread-Index: AcQpO9Sbtm0lWd2eS923a9TwL0wO8gAHL4uQ Message-Id: <20040423174919.XZKI1774.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > A little later than promised but our web site now has > updated licence information and ordering pages for > Inferno. Oh no... I was hoping the commercial license would accommodate our development requirements. While I don't mind paying for developer seats (one product we use costs over $10,000 / developer), it's harder to swallow the runtime / royalty license fee. According to the link provided: "You must purchase a runtime permit for each machine to which you distribute Inferno or your application to" When looking at the order page, the runtime costs $35 / machine! I was designing our product to have a retail price < $100. The BOM was still a little [too] high, but we were looking into new components to bring the cost down. Knowing that I now have to add another $35 / device will mean Inferno is not an option anymore for this project:-( We even looked into WinCE and Symbian and their costs were ~$20 and $5 / device respectively. Perhaps I'm still missing something about the value of Inferno, but this commercial model prices it out of the market for most consumer devices. Most PDAs, cell phones, voice recorders, etc. can be purchased for less than $200 retail and with this price, things just don't add up. With the availability of 'ports' and the number of processors Inferno supports, I thought the OS was targeted at such devices, but perhaps I'm still missing something?? Thanks, -Mark From vitanuova.com!michael Fri Apr 23 22:39:29 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 158.152.8.115 ([158.152.8.115]) by doppio; Fri Apr 23 22:39:29 BST 2004 Message-ID: <00b001c429be$094cce10$7308989e@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: <20040423174919.XZKI1774.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:36:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 10:49 AM Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information > > When looking at the order page, the runtime costs $35 / machine! I was > designing our product to have a retail price < $100. The BOM was still a > little [too] high, but we were looking into new components to bring the cost > down. I presume that you are looking at much larger numbers than 10 in which case talk to us and we can negotiate something that works for both of us. > With the availability of 'ports' and the number of processors Inferno > supports, I thought the OS was targeted at such devices ... It is, but not exclusively. Inferno can be applied in such a wide range of environments that fixing on a single pricing structure is hard. However, we believe we have pitched the price about right and set a ceiling on our expectations for a runtime fee. The * footnote on the order page is there to encourage negotiation. Michael From comcast.net!battelle Sat Apr 24 00:31:03 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.198.35]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 00:31:03 BST 2004 Received: from battamd64 (c-24-5-8-120.client.comcast.net[24.5.8.120]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20040423232544013004mtfre> (Authid: battelle); Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:25:44 +0000 From: "Joe Battelle" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:25:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <20040423174919.XZKI1774.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Thread-Index: AcQpO9Sbtm0lWd2eS923a9TwL0wO8gAHL4uQAAvH5GA= >Oh no... Oh no is right... It is clear that you guys have made up your mind not to publish quantity pricing, and only published this rediculous price as some sort of appeasement. I believe the "so many cases, so many uses" thing is a ruse. Yes it requires thought, but shouldn't you at least put as much thought into your pricing model as you do the code that comprises the product? This has done little to encourage me that you guys are on the right track. There is a huge market for inferno in products that sell quantity 1000 and the price should be somewhere between $3.00 and $5.00 per unit and it should be published, and that's the last I'll say on the issue. Grumble, grumble, Joe From orthanc.ca!lyndon Sat Apr 24 02:01:50 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from orthanc.ca ([209.89.70.53]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 02:01:50 BST 2004 Received: from d207-6-110-30.bchsia.telus.net (d207-6-110-30.bchsia.telus.net [207.6.110.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by orthanc.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3O0uJpu081892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:56:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ca) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:56:14 -0700 From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information Message-ID: <2147483647.1082742974@d207-6-110-30.bchsia.telus.net> In-Reply-To: <00b001c429be$094cce10$7308989e@MICHAEL> References: <20040423174919.XZKI1774.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> <00b001c429be$094cce10$7308989e@MICHAEL> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.1 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on orthanc.ca I, too, am developing a couple of products that want to retail for under $100 (Canadian, about US$75). In my case I won't be manufacturing the product. I'm designing the prototype, and will build enough units for field trials and proof of concept. If it proves viable, the whole thing will be sold off to another company to commercialize. Before I can sell this, the prospective buyer needs to accurately calculate the unit manufacturing cost. With a variable per-seat license fee, that can't be done. This makes it a lot harder for me to interest anyone in buying the product. The attraction of the 3e license -- and what made me chose Inferno over the alternatives -- was the known up front cost of the software, and the absence of trailing royalty payments. And as a (very) small company, per-unit royalties are very expensive to administer. The paperwork -- and associated staff costs -- involved in tracking those licenses adds significantly to my overhead. Also, it's not clear what happens if I upgrade deployed products to 5e. Do I have to purchase new 5e RTLs for the machines I upgrade in the field? (I don't even want to think about trying to track that sort of thing.) > I presume that you are looking at much larger numbers than 10 > in which case talk to us and we can negotiate something that > works for both of us. That doesn't work for small companies. I can't risk buying (say) 10000 licenses at a discount when I don't know if I'll sell more than 100 units. And if I'm trying to sell the IPR in the product to a manufacturer, this just doesn't work at all. Can we negotiate the original terms that I bought 3e under? If not, my products are dead in the water (unless I can find another RTOS that doesn't need runtime licenses and has an affordable upfront purchase price). And a man years worth of development effort is now in limbo, you might say. --lyndon From xaplos.com!macrod Sat Apr 24 03:04:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf14aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.62]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 03:04:36 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040424015006.RBAR1773.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:50:06 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:50:02 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <2147483647.1082742974@d207-6-110-30.bchsia.telus.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcQpmApuqqYDeeYvT4aXp+kU5506hAABF6Xg Message-Id: <20040424015006.RBAR1773.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > That doesn't work for small companies. I can't risk buying (say) 10000 > licenses at a discount when I don't know if I'll sell more than 100 > units. And if I'm trying to sell the IPR in the product to a > manufacturer, this just doesn't work at all. > Agreed. We are [very] hopeful that we'll sell 10,000s of these things, but right now we are still in the research phase. I know we couldn't justify purchasing a large quantity off hand since we don't have any history to base the figure on. > Can we negotiate the original terms that I bought 3e under? If not, my > products are dead in the water (unless I can find another RTOS that > doesn't need runtime licenses and has an affordable upfront purchase > price). And a man years worth of development effort is now in limbo, > you might say. Sounds like my previous concern has already manifested itself in regards to changing licenses. It's very difficult to commit to a product if we have to deal with a potentially moving license that affects / infects our existing products. Thanks, -Mark From xaplos.com!macrod Sat Apr 24 03:04:37 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf14aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.62]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 03:04:37 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040424013133.ODGD1818.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:31:33 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: "'Charles Forsyth'" Cc: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:31:25 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcQpfYdAw3qfhCcGRy+ufr/2YDKauAAFo6pw Message-Id: <20040424013133.ODGD1818.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > even so, on hardware, i was quite impressed that i could > get a Gumstix for $139/$169 or so, and for you to get to less than $100 > for a device that could run inferno is remarkable. it does suggest that > it's going to be harder and harder for software people. You'd be surprised what $10 gets you as far as microprocessor horsepower and memory. I was out this evening shopping at a well know retailer in the states (Target) and saw a Palm Zire PDA retailing for $55 and change! > i'm reasonably sure we can arrange not to be a price bottleneck for you. > mind you, having said all that, the only reason you need to go for the > commercial licence with runtime permits is if you aren't prepared to > make your application source code available following the Liberal licence. > you can still charge money for things under the Liberal licence; it's just > that you must make source code available following the terms of the > licence. While I'm not in a position to make the final decision on this, it is something I plan on discussing with the team. Having said that, what assurances do we have that VN will not decide to change the liberal license in the future to the point where projects will no longer be able to ship using this license? Again, I'm not an attorney but the following text in the liberal license has me a little concerned: "VITA NUOVA may from time to time and at its sole dis-cretion publish a revised and/or new version of this LICENCE which shall then govern the licensing of all copies of LICENSED SOFTWARE supplied by VITA NUOVA after the posting of such revised or new licence." From my [limited] understanding this could mean that future "revised" licenses completely remove the "liberal" portions and now we are STUCK. While I don't expect this to be the case from VN, what if Inferno was sold or VN acquired by a not so "liberal" company? It would be easier to "jump on board" knowing that the license for the software I download / use / agree with today CANNOT change in the future. Since VN [rightfully] has the authority to change the license at any time, I'd like assurances that what's on my HD or in my product today is grandfathered in with the license I agreed to at the time I decided to use the software. It's going to be a hard sell for me to convince my colleagues to use Inferno knowing that in the future the liberal license may be replaced / revised to the point that it prevents us from shipping our product without a commercial license. Perhaps the phrase "shall then govern the licensing of all copies of LICENSED SOFTWARE" could read "shall then govern the licensing of all copies of LICENSED SOFTWARE released after the license's revision date" This would assure us that if I base my product on R4 and the license changes for R5 and I don't agree with it, I can continue to use R4 under the license I agreed to. Of course if I want to take advantage of the new features in R5, I'd have to rethink my position and agree to the new licensing terms which may even require payment. This is OK just as long as I know my R4-based application is not affected. I need to know that if I agree to your license today and base a decision on the specified terms, that some future revision to the license (which I may not agree to) cannot prevent me from shipping my product which met the terms of our original agreement. Again, I'm no lawyer but it just doesn't sound right that we can mutually agree on a license today for Inferno R4, but you can change the license terms tomorrow (say for R5) to require that I _______ (fill in the blank here) and if I don't comply run the chances of having all my previous licenses (i.e., R4) terminated. Thanks, -Mark From eth.net!vsreedhar Sat Apr 24 04:28:00 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ETH.NET ([202.9.145.21]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 04:28:00 BST 2004 Received: from CHNISO02 ([202.9.178.26]) by ETH.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:46:59 +0530 Received: from 219.65.111.64 by CHNISO02 (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:50:43 +0530 Message-ID: <000401c429ab$81952c40$406f41db@iyarkai> From: "V.Sreedhar" To: References: <6ec63ac531809826d7aa18eedb0d5ef8@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:21:13 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: vsreedhar@eth.net X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Apr 2004 03:16:59.0359 (UTC) FILETIME=[9AEC8EF0:01C429AA] --- Charles Forsyth wrote ---- >the Windows' task bar effects are patented[!] and so can't safely be copied). >i was just curious what things you might have noticed. GNOME & KDE task bars on Linux have similar effects. I suppose that they are not claimed as violating MS patents. Correct me if I am wrong. Regards, Sreedhar. From terzarima.net!forsyth Sat Apr 24 06:44:21 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 06:44:21 BST 2004 Message-ID: <70f32df1ff88f0fa84b26e325b8a8120@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:40:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040424013133.ODGD1818.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>"VITA NUOVA may from time to time and at its sole dis-cretion publish a >>revised and/or new version of this LICENCE which shall then govern the >>licensing of all copies of LICENSED SOFTWARE supplied by VITA NUOVA >>after the posting of such revised or new licence." >>assurances do we have that VN will not decide to change the liberal license >>in the future to the point where projects will no longer be able to ship >>using this license? >>license. Perhaps the phrase "shall then govern the licensing of all copies >>of LICENSED SOFTWARE" could read "shall then govern the licensing of all >>copies of LICENSED SOFTWARE released after the license's revision date" i see. that's not the reason the clause is there. i'll see if the wording can be adjusted to do what it's intended to do without causing such anxiety. i'm not sure your suggestion does that: `supplied by VITA NUOVA' is `released' (or i misunderstand the distinction you're making). nevertheless, i can see some qualification that will help and should not be too hard to make. From terzarima.net!forsyth Sat Apr 24 07:02:33 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 07:02:33 BST 2004 Message-ID: <8981039801d18d8b7303f5ae18d9e9b6@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:58:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: <000401c429ab$81952c40$406f41db@iyarkai> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-sfljbqbyyuvjvaibztwahwuzqu" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-sfljbqbyyuvjvaibztwahwuzqu Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i've wondered about that myself, since i have read some of the patents, but i didn't write/supply the other software so it's not my problem (except of course for the principle of whether a patent should have been granted for a particular thing). perhaps they don't apply for some reason, otherwise there would have been more fuss by now i suppose. Microsoft (and a few others) have many patents on various aspects of tool bars (as in Word in all variants), dockable tool bars, reconfigurable tool bars, task bars, start menu(!), various specialised menu types, and most of those have associated ones in specialised variants for handheld devices with a touch sensitive screen, and simliar variants. i was looking for a list i thought i'd made but can't find it. i found them fairly quickly on Delphion a few years ago. quite apart from user interfaces there are some amazing things patented, fairly late on. --upas-sfljbqbyyuvjvaibztwahwuzqu Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Sat Apr 24 04:29:26 BST 2004 Received: from ETH.NET ([202.9.145.21]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 04:28:00 BST 2004 Received: from CHNISO02 ([202.9.178.26]) by ETH.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:46:59 +0530 Received: from 219.65.111.64 by CHNISO02 (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:50:43 +0530 Message-ID: <000401c429ab$81952c40$406f41db@iyarkai> From: "V.Sreedhar" To: References: <6ec63ac531809826d7aa18eedb0d5ef8@vitanuova.com> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:21:13 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: vsreedhar@eth.net X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Apr 2004 03:16:59.0359 (UTC) FILETIME=[9AEC8EF0:01C429AA] Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Available Results on Inferno OS? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk --- Charles Forsyth wrote ---- >the Windows' task bar effects are patented[!] and so can't safely be copied). >i was just curious what things you might have noticed. GNOME & KDE task bars on Linux have similar effects. I suppose that they are not claimed as violating MS patents. Correct me if I am wrong. Regards, Sreedhar. --upas-sfljbqbyyuvjvaibztwahwuzqu-- From altair.syntelos.com!jdp Sat Apr 24 07:10:42 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from altair.syntelos.com ([204.193.147.240]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 07:10:42 BST 2004 Received: from syntelos.com (pool-141-153-163-69.mad.east.verizon.net [141.153.163.69]) by altair.syntelos.com (8.10.2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i3O65LR01641; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <408A2AC4.3050903@syntelos.com> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:52:20 -0700 From: John Pritchard Organization: http://www.syntelos.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, fr-fr, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information References: <89cbbee3f9ca707215fd5aa3484e0aba@vitanuova.com> In-Reply-To: <89cbbee3f9ca707215fd5aa3484e0aba@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeez louise, all you have to do is pick up the phone and talk to these guys (VN). I think the missing link is the realization that the Inferno product is applicable to a very broad range of applications, from cell phones to set-top boxes, etc., etc.. They've (VN) given the community what it needs to grow in the dual licensing scheme. The only case that clearly is difficult is that of the consultant who needs to be able to pitch a price (to have a price before getting the principals involved) -- in this case the consultant isn't in a position to 'negotiate', but yet needs a hard and fast price. I think this is a case that VN needs to recognize and to respond to with something like, "hey, call us, we know our market and can give you a fair number to pitch to your principals" -- and then of course the principals, if they bite, can then go back to VN and see if they can get a better price, etc., etc... >>Oh no... >> >> >Oh no is right... > >It is clear that you guys have made up your mind not to publish quantity >pricing, and only published this rediculous price as some sort of >appeasement. I believe the "so many cases, so many uses" thing is a ruse. >Yes it requires thought, but shouldn't you at least put as much thought into >your pricing model as you do the code that comprises the product? This has >done little to encourage me that you guys are on the right track. There is >a huge market for inferno in products that sell quantity 1000 and the price >should be somewhere between $3.00 and $5.00 per unit and it should be >published, and that's the last I'll say on the issue. > >Grumble, grumble, >Joe > > > > > From terzarima.net!forsyth Sat Apr 24 08:29:09 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 08:29:09 BST 2004 Message-ID: <196261eae367b3413a3a524326023f53@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:25:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040424013133.ODGD1818.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>(fill in the blank here) and if I don't comply run the chances of having all >>my previous licenses (i.e., R4) terminated. the liberal licence is perpetual unless you break the conditions (`perpetual subject to clause 3' which is `termination for breach') and the `licence revision' clause isn't a condition once you've got the software under the liberal licence, you've got it on the terms set at that time, for ever. a licence is a contract, and it contracts both ways. you agree to some terms, but we also agree to supply on those terms, and that lasts as long as the contract, which in this case is perpetual (subject to clause 3). i don't think it's different with the GPL, and in a way, that's potentially more complex: The Free Software Foundation may publish revised and/or new versions of the General Public License from time to time. Such new versions will be similar in spirit to the present version, but may differ in detail to address new problems or concerns. [it goes on to explain versions and how they might be used] now, `similar in spirit' is a little uncomfortable in a licence because it almost inherently forces court action to decide it, so it's best avoided (i don't think there is a Free Legal Foundation yet). i know several good examples from constitutions, including some where the subsequent interpretation is far from the well-documented original intent, but i don't want to get too far off topic. i understood there will indeed be a GPLv3 at some point. suppose that has a change intended to clarify some current wording to make clear what is meant by that `spirit' and in fact closes a particular `loophole'. (that's a good example because there is a potential loophole in the GPLv2 as regards use for services provided over a network-- it's mentioned on the FSF page that lists the incompatible licences.) but such a loophole must be used by someone (or there's no point to making the change). such a person must stick with software that specifies either GPLv2 or GPL (and no version). he can't use software that is GPLv3. so i think our current revision clause is not substantially different from that one in intent or practice. From terzarima.net!forsyth Sat Apr 24 08:30:12 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 08:30:12 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:26:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: <408A2AC4.3050903@syntelos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Jeez louise, all you have to do is pick up the phone and talk to these >>guys (VN). I think the missing link is the realization that the Inferno >>product is applicable to a very broad range of applications, from cell >>phones to set-top boxes, etc., etc.. ... email works too (eg, sales@vitanuova.com)! don't forget as well that Inferno also has its hosted mode, which we use for instance for our commercial grid software, where it works very well, and in such applications there isn't quite the same downward pressure by hardware prices on software pricing (there is some, because PCs get cheaper, but the ones used for grids aren't the cheapest). once you throw that range into the mix, it becomes harder still to produce one-size-fits-all pricing. as we can already see ... i'm not saying it's impossible, but i begin to suspect it might require a spreadsheet instead of a plain order form... From comcast.net!battelle Sat Apr 24 09:40:08 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.198.35]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 09:40:08 BST 2004 Received: from battamd64 (c-24-5-8-120.client.comcast.net[24.5.8.120]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20040424083449013004itmke> (Authid: battelle); Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:34:49 +0000 From: "Joe Battelle" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:34:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <408A2AC4.3050903@syntelos.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcQpwsUTwl4r/WHpT5qBNldqCJlLYwACIFJQ ME>and that's the last I'll say on the issue. I knew that would come back and bite me ;) Apologies for my somewhat irate post. Seeing a price printed that is an order of magnitude too high (in my estimation) is a bit of a shocker. PRITCHARD> The only case that clearly is difficult is that of the consultant I _am_ that consultant. I raised this months ago and no response. And of course I emailed privately about this. The private response was not enlightening. >I think this is a case that VN needs to recognize and to respond to with something like, "hey, call us, we know our market and can give you a fair number to pitch to your principals" -- and then of course the principals, if they bite, can then go back to VN and see if they can get a better price, etc., etc... We're not talking multimillion dollar deals and "pitching" and "biting." As engineers with limited resources (time and money) we really just want a price to put on the BOM. We need a price we can estimate with. We need to know what it will be next year and the year after. We need to know this for Qty 100 and Qty 1000 and in rare cases Qty 10000. We need to know what the hosted and native versions will cost. That's it. It's not difficult. No lawyers, no negotiating. Just a price and a public commitment to that price as before when the price for a flat-rate for 3e was posted on the website. There are those who may say "but 4e isn't even out yet--give em time." But that isn't workable either. When a company makes such a drastic change in licensing terms, it really needs to communicate effectively and well in advance of release, or risk driving developers away. Joe From comcast.net!battelle Sat Apr 24 09:44:19 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net ([216.148.227.85]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 09:44:19 BST 2004 Received: from battamd64 (c-24-5-8-120.client.comcast.net[24.5.8.120]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004042408390001400i61gqe> (Authid: battelle); Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:39:00 +0000 From: "Joe Battelle" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 01:38:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcQpzt4iJzS2urHIS7WXlip28KBP3QABY9zQ >>email works too (eg, sales@vitanuova.com)! Define "works." >>don't forget as well that Inferno also has its hosted mode...and in such applications there isn't quite the same downward pressure.... I think it's rather specious reasoning that "use cases" for inferno can justify all this pricing hullaballoo for 4e. What exactly has been added to 4e that merits a switch from flat to "negotiated" per-unit charges? This switch is strictly a business decision on VNs part. The third edition had just as much ability to be used in just as many instances. Why muddy the waters about "a range of applications?" Grid computing..? What's the next "use case" that will justify a pricing change for inferno? Joe From terzarima.net!forsyth Sat Apr 24 10:43:29 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 10:43:29 BST 2004 Message-ID: <7e1d878f6845ab8e603851e622d3179c@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:39:42 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1542128d275ba4dc4cd7f7ec70b4ade4@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>email works too (eg, sales@vitanuova.com)! >Define "works." the message is received by someone who is steady and reliable and if she cannot respond to the query she forwards it to someone who can (not me for commercial things). the process should produce a reply. i suppose it's fair to say that it does not guarantee that the response will be considered satisfactory in every case, or will not somehow be confusing, or might not apparently require further exchanges! i mentioned it only because someone suggested `picking up a phone' and i just wanted to point out that it needn't require playing telephone tag. From altair.syntelos.com!jdp Sat Apr 24 12:30:14 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from altair.syntelos.com ([204.193.147.240]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 12:30:14 BST 2004 Received: from syntelos.com (pool-141-153-163-69.mad.east.verizon.net [141.153.163.69]) by altair.syntelos.com (8.10.2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i3OBOrR02184; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <408A75A7.8040709@syntelos.com> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:11:51 -0700 From: John Pritchard Organization: http://www.syntelos.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, fr-fr, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information References: <256c84c1e1a279427e0b74314f8641ef@vitanuova.com> In-Reply-To: <256c84c1e1a279427e0b74314f8641ef@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joe, There's no mystery. Inferno is not yet a commodity. VN is small and needs to grow -- which is in all our best interest. If they can get $1/unit for cell-phone "A" and $5/unit for cell-phone "B" then they should. What's more, they must. That's their responsibility to themselves and to the system as economic actors in a capitalistic society. Just like it's your responsibility to yourself and to the system to get the best prices, on both your (economic) inputs and outputs. You just need to make your case to them, show them how yours needs price X. Listen to their comments, talk it out. Don't stop talking. I'm pretty sure they're smart people, just not so much sales staff as to chase after your price for you. John >ME>and that's the last I'll say on the issue. > >I knew that would come back and bite me ;) Apologies for my somewhat irate >post. Seeing a price printed that is an order of magnitude too high (in my >estimation) is a bit of a shocker. > >PRITCHARD> The only case that clearly is difficult is that of the consultant > >I _am_ that consultant. I raised this months ago and no response. And of >course I emailed privately about this. The private response was not >enlightening. > > > >>I think this is a case that VN needs to recognize and to respond to with >> >> >something like, "hey, call us, we know our market and can give you a fair >number to pitch to your principals" -- and then of course the principals, if >they bite, can then go back to VN and see if they can get a better price, >etc., etc... > >We're not talking multimillion dollar deals and "pitching" and "biting." As >engineers with limited resources (time and money) we really just want a >price to put on the BOM. We need a price we can estimate with. We need to >know what it will be next year and the year after. We need to know this for >Qty 100 and Qty 1000 and in rare cases Qty 10000. We need to know what the >hosted and native versions will cost. That's it. It's not difficult. No >lawyers, no negotiating. Just a price and a public commitment to that price >as before when the price for a flat-rate for 3e was posted on the website. > >There are those who may say "but 4e isn't even out yet--give em time." But >that isn't workable either. When a company makes such a drastic change in >licensing terms, it really needs to communicate effectively and well in >advance of release, or risk driving developers away. > >Joe > > > > > From eik.bme.hu!fgergo Sat Apr 24 22:02:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from goliat.eik.bme.hu ([152.66.115.2]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 22:02:36 BST 2004 Received: by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix, from userid 455) id B4EA5B16B6; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:57:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C35CA2B3 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:57:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:57:17 +0200 (CEST) From: FODEMESI Gergely X-X-Sender: fgergo@goliat To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: archive? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, is there a plan to archive the list? Gergo From 0xfe.org!vthacker Sat Apr 24 22:31:53 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ns.0xfe.org ([211.8.214.187]) by doppio; Sat Apr 24 22:31:53 BST 2004 Received: from vthacker by ns.0xfe.org with local (Exim 4.32) id 1BHUfg-0001dc-Oa for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:26:49 +0900 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:26:48 +0900 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] archive? Message-ID: <20040424212648.GB6239@0xfe.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i From: Vester Thacker On Sat, Apr 24, 2004 at 10:57:17PM +0200, FODEMESI Gergely wrote: > Hi, > > is there a plan to archive the list? Yes, here is the link: http://lists.gemusehaken.org/pipermail/inferno/ -- Vester Thacker From vitanuova.com!michael Sun Apr 25 14:00:16 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 158.152.8.115 ([158.152.8.115]) by doppio; Sun Apr 25 14:00:16 BST 2004 Message-ID: <017901c42b07$d483a820$7308989e@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: <20040424013133.ODGD1818.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:55:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark F Rodriguez" > I need to know that if I agree to your license today and base a decision on > the specified terms, that some future revision to the license (which I may > not agree to) cannot prevent me from shipping my product which met the terms > of our original agreement. This liberal and commercial licences are both 'perpetual' (para. 4) . This means that subject to the licencee not doing something wrong you and VN are bound to the terms of that licence for the download that you made, and it cannot be terminated. We categorically cannot unilaterally apply retrospective licence terms. From comcast.net!battelle Sun Apr 25 21:35:54 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.202.64]) by doppio; Sun Apr 25 21:35:54 BST 2004 Received: from battamd64 (c-24-5-8-120.client.comcast.net[24.5.8.120]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004042520303401600d5u2le> (Authid: battelle); Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:30:35 +0000 From: "Joe Battelle" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:30:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcQp4Bvb+lZaCxR1SgGqFzqz1ELWHQBHjhew X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <7e1d878f6845ab8e603851e622d3179c@terzarima.net> >>Define "works." >the message is received by someone who is steady and reliable and if she cannot respond to the >query she forwards it to someone who can (not me for commercial things). the process should >produce a reply. Right, I realize my query may have sounded snotty and that was not my intent. In my experience, the easy questions tend to be picked off and answered, while the hard ones (not technical ones mind you, rather ommercial licensing) seem to go unanswered. In the past my direct queries (by email) about commercial licensing went unanswered, but I grant that it is likely that you had nothing to say at the time. I would suggest even in that case that some sort of reply be given, and effective communication would require a "and we'll will get back to you by this date." If I post something rather than email, it is generally because I believe it to be applicable to others in my situation, and we as a class would benefit from a public response. Regardless, thanks for addressing my concerns, and we'll take the discussion off-list. Joe From igd.fhg.de!christoph.hornung Mon Apr 26 08:49:22 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from loki.igd.fhg.de ([192.44.32.17]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 08:49:22 BST 2004 Received: from igd.fhg.de (host1336.igd.fhg.de [146.140.6.56]) by loki.igd.fhg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EECB841F for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:44:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <408CBDB7.4060900@igd.fhg.de> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:43:51 +0200 From: "Dr. Christoph Hornung" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040421 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Charon/Buttons Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, in 4.Edition, Charon/Buttons do not work. I just get the first line (back, stop, next) but not the second one. any help? ch From vitanuova.com!michael Mon Apr 26 09:50:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 62.254.170.97 ([62.254.170.97]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 09:50:28 BST 2004 Message-ID: <004801c42bae$19dc7a40$220101c8@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: <408CBDB7.4060900@igd.fhg.de> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Charon/Buttons Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:47:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Christoph Hornung" To: Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 12:43 AM Subject: [inferno-list] Charon/Buttons > Hi, > > in 4.Edition, Charon/Buttons do not work. I just get the first line (back, stop, next) but not the second one. I haven't looked at the code, but I think there is only one line of buttons (back, stop, next) oh and snarf in the bottom right hand corner. Charon does not have all the accoutrements of IE (not that they would be that difficult to add) since it is not aimed as a IE replacement in hosted mode but as a browser that does a pretty good job in resource constrained devices. Can I also clarify, did back, stop and next work? From igd.fhg.de!christoph.hornung Mon Apr 26 11:07:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from loki.igd.fhg.de ([192.44.32.17]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 11:07:27 BST 2004 Received: from igd.fhg.de (host1336.igd.fhg.de [146.140.6.56]) by loki.igd.fhg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B377B2E for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:02:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <408CDE0F.2050306@igd.fhg.de> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:01:51 +0200 From: "Dr. Christoph Hornung" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040421 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Charon/Buttons References: <408CBDB7.4060900@igd.fhg.de> <004801c42bae$19dc7a40$220101c8@MICHAEL> In-Reply-To: <004801c42bae$19dc7a40$220101c8@MICHAEL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi, first line buttons work fine. However, the "?" button shows more icons and, in a Plan9 screenshot, these are also visible... ch From vitanuova.com!michael Mon Apr 26 11:13:55 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 62.254.170.97 ([62.254.170.97]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 11:13:55 BST 2004 Message-ID: <008901c42bb9$c22d0150$220101c8@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: <408CBDB7.4060900@igd.fhg.de> <004801c42bae$19dc7a40$220101c8@MICHAEL> <408CDE0F.2050306@igd.fhg.de> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Charon/Buttons Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:10:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Oh yes you are right. We'll investigate and report back. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Christoph Hornung" To: Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Charon/Buttons > hi, > > first line buttons work fine. > > However, the "?" button shows more icons and, in a Plan9 screenshot, these are also visible... > > ch From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon Apr 26 11:28:43 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 11:28:43 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Charon/Buttons From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:24:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: <008901c42bb9$c22d0150$220101c8@MICHAEL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bbaggcgofdqgazmagilgphotfs" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bbaggcgofdqgazmagilgphotfs Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the author removed them last year to simplify the interface, but the other mechanisms and programs that were supposed to provide the functionality (eg, visible history, something to replace bookmarks) never materialised! --upas-bbaggcgofdqgazmagilgphotfs Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rapido.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Mon Apr 26 11:15:51 BST 2004 Received: from 62.254.170.97 ([62.254.170.97]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 11:13:55 BST 2004 Message-ID: <008901c42bb9$c22d0150$220101c8@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: <408CBDB7.4060900@igd.fhg.de> <004801c42bae$19dc7a40$220101c8@MICHAEL> <408CDE0F.2050306@igd.fhg.de> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:10:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Charon/Buttons Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Oh yes you are right. We'll investigate and report back. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Christoph Hornung" To: Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Charon/Buttons > hi, > > first line buttons work fine. > > However, the "?" button shows more icons and, in a Plan9 screenshot, these are also visible... > > ch --upas-bbaggcgofdqgazmagilgphotfs-- From cooper.edu!salomo3 Mon Apr 26 14:48:14 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wish.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.74]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 14:48:14 BST 2004 Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 6E509393B; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id C26853937 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drnick.cooper.edu ([199.98.17.55]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1553.199.98.17.55.1082986246.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: References: <008901c42bb9$c22d0150$220101c8@MICHAEL> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Charon/Buttons From: "Joel Salomon" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-19.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charles Forsyth said: > the author removed them last year to simplify the > interface, but the other mechanisms and programs that were supposed to > provide the functionality (eg, visible history, something to replace > bookmarks) > never materialised! > any other significant (in the positive sense) changes or can 3e charon be used if you want the buttons? --Joel From forsyth Mon Apr 26 18:18:30 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:18:30 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Charon/Buttons In-Reply-To: <1553.199.98.17.55.1082986246.squirrel@wish> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit quite a bit was done on the implementation of images, partly because of the revised Draw module, and partly for instance to allow display of RGB. slight changes to table layout and Ecmascript error handling. efficiency improvements and corrections here and there. really, though, i'd like to get someone to do what's needed to complete the changes for the current version. both were anyway wrong in the handling of history, so that might as well be dealt with properly too. i have seen some suggestions of how to replace bookmarks (not for Charon, for browsers in general). i'll see if i can find the reference again. i thought it was worth considering. most important, i'd like to have some of the niggling bugs fixed. generally, i really do use Charon for most of my browsing, but there are a few sites where for some reason or another i must use Opera. (then there are a few more where i cannot use Opera but must use IE6.) i also thought a few non-patented ideas from Opera could be used to improve browsing with Charon, and i felt there was something good to do with plumbing, more than at present. From mistwireless.com!ajanicijevic Mon Apr 26 19:28:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from dmz1.mistwireless.com ([216.95.202.131]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 19:28:45 BST 2004 Received: from aleksandarj (dhcp-1-160.mistwireless.com [192.168.1.160]) by dmz1.mistwireless.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i3QINQJl030737 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:23:26 -0400 From: "Aleksandar Janicijevic" To: Subject: Question Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:25:18 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Hi all, I am quite new to Inferno, so forgive me if I ask a silly question. I only know what I read *about* Inferno, still haven't tried any development in it. It seems to be rather interesting to me, more specifically for free/liberal software development, and in a desktop environment. I am thinking that if a richer GUI was developed, this could be a very cool environment for developing applications that are more portable than most in Windows/*nix development world. So, my present question is, how great a job would it be to develop a decent desktop-class GUI and would it even make sense considering? I'd appreciate if someone more experienced in Inferno would share their thoughts. Regards, Aleksandar Janicijevic, Toronto, Ontario Canada From rog Mon Apr 26 19:35:06 BST 2004 remote from presto To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Question Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:35:06 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > So, my present question is, how great a job would it be > to develop a decent desktop-class GUI and would it even make sense > considering? inferno might make many things easier, but GUI design is just hard graft. if you knew exactly what you were after, had a competent graphics designer, three competent programmers, and six months, i reckon you could do a pretty good job. (completely off-the-wall guess there, in case you hadn't noticed :-]) From innerghost.net!hugo Mon Apr 26 21:07:01 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from haven.innerghost.net ([213.22.117.228]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 21:07:01 BST 2004 Received: from navi.innerghost.net (navi.innerghost.net [10.23.1.11]) by haven.innerghost.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1525AEC4AA for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:01:40 +0100 (WEST) Subject: list archives? (grid software) From: Hugo Santos To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1083009648.2921.33.camel@navi> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.5.7 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:00:48 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I would like to know if there are any list archives since i wouldn't like to make duplicate questions :) If there aren't, i would like to know if there is any documentation on setuping inferno grids, or how the demo grid was setuped. Thanks in advance, Hugo Santos From vitanuova.com!michael Mon Apr 26 21:22:25 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 158.152.8.115 ([158.152.8.115]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 21:22:25 BST 2004 Message-ID: <008401c42c0e$c39a4c50$7308989e@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Question Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:17:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > I am quite new to Inferno, so forgive me if I ask a silly question. I only > know what I read *about* Inferno, still haven't tried any development in it. > It seems to be rather interesting to me, more specifically for free/liberal > software development, and in a desktop environment. I am thinking that if a > richer GUI was developed, this could be a very cool environment for > developing applications that are more portable than most in Windows/*nix > development world. So, my present question is, how great a job would it be > to develop a decent desktop-class GUI and would it even make sense > considering? I don't think it makes much commercial sense, despite there being lots of ways in which desk-top environments could be improved. I think there is some scope for experimenting in ways that Inferno apps could run inside a window provided by a host environment. I just tried running wm/bounce from an emu console instead of the usual 'wm/wm wm/logon' and sure enough I got the bounce app running maximised inside a Windows window. But things don't look quite right: the Windows window has Inferno in the title bar and the Inferno Window has bounce, and they both have an X icon. And of course bounce can only be run in this way as it does not need a window manager (normally provided by wm/wm). It would certainly be worth while experimenting with what you could do to provide (or the illusion of) tighter integration between Inferno applications and native apps. I suspect it is quite difficult to solve this problem whilst retaining portability, which was one of the aims in the first place. The problem is perhaps that wm/wm is replicating something we expect to be provided by the host window manager. In native platforms this is not a problem. Inferno apps running under the IE plug-in also seem fine, perhaps because we don't expect anything that happens in a browser window to conform to anything that happens to be running in the host environment. From eik.bme.hu!fgergo Mon Apr 26 21:28:34 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from goliat.eik.bme.hu ([152.66.115.2]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 21:28:34 BST 2004 Received: by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix, from userid 455) id 18F76B16B5; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:23:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 044DFCA2B3 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:23:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:23:14 +0200 (CEST) From: FODEMESI Gergely X-X-Sender: fgergo@goliat To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] list archives? (grid software) In-Reply-To: <1083009648.2921.33.camel@navi> Message-ID: References: <1083009648.2921.33.camel@navi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List might need a faq? Gergo Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:26:48 +0900 From: Vester Thacker To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] archive? On Sat, Apr 24, 2004 at 10:57:17PM +0200, FODEMESI Gergely wrote: > Hi, > > is there a plan to archive the list? Yes, here is the link: http://lists.gemusehaken.org/pipermail/inferno/ -- Vester Thacker On Mon, 26 Apr 2004, Hugo Santos wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to know if there are any list archives since i wouldn't > like to make duplicate questions :) > If there aren't, i would like to know if there is any documentation on > setuping inferno grids, or how the demo grid was setuped. > > Thanks in advance, > Hugo Santos > > > From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon Apr 26 22:15:07 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 22:15:07 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Question From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:11:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: <008401c42c0e$c39a4c50$7308989e@MICHAEL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>the Windows window has Inferno in the title bar and the Inferno Window >>has bounce, and they both have an X icon. And of course bounce can only be i found that an interesting example. in my experience, a window system within a window is exactly what most Windows applications present that i use! most display internal overlapping windows, and indeed each has its own X box. HP scanner software, image manipulation programs, software development environments, they all do the same thing! in fact, i'm sure i got that with Word (but i avoid it). one exception is Opera. it displays mostly non-overlapping windows selected by tabs, but if there are popups, sure enough, there are the overlapping windows each with its own X box. even outside a browser, there is no hard-and-fast rule these days, even on Windows. what was the shocking thing about XP? it wasn't the price, or the bundled web+media software, it was that (foreshadowed by pre-releases of some of the software post-98) Microsoft had broken its own published strict user interface guidelines. >>software development, and in a desktop environment. I am thinking that if a >>richer GUI was developed, this could be a very cool environment for >>developing applications that are more portable than most in Windows/*nix >>development world. So, my present question is, how great a job would it be >>to develop a decent desktop-class GUI and would it even make sense what sort of `decent desktop-class GUI' did you have in mind? i ask because how easy it would be to do would depend on what you had in mind. From altair.syntelos.com!jdp Mon Apr 26 22:33:54 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from altair.syntelos.com ([204.193.147.240]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 22:33:54 BST 2004 Received: from syntelos.com (pool-141-153-163-69.mad.east.verizon.net [141.153.163.69]) by altair.syntelos.com (8.10.2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i3QLSWR10340; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:28:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <408DA621.8060409@syntelos.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:15:29 -0700 From: John Pritchard Organization: http://www.syntelos.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, fr-fr, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Question References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dynamic linking or configuration? I have a small variety of sparcstations (SS10, SS4, U1, U2) for my native Inferno/ OpenBoot research project, but time..... Anyone working in this area? Curious, John From vitanuova.com!michael Mon Apr 26 22:57:32 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 158.152.8.115 ([158.152.8.115]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 22:57:32 BST 2004 Message-ID: <002d01c42c1c$0d4c09d0$7308989e@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Question Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:53:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > environments, they all do the same thing! in fact, i'm sure i got that with Word (but i avoid it). > one exception is Opera. it displays mostly non-overlapping windows selected > by tabs, but if there are popups, sure enough, there are the overlapping windows > each with its own X box. You're right, I just had a look at excel and sure enough right under the usual minimise, maximise and close icons associated with the window there are the same icons associated with the window (but smaller) that excel manages itself. As far as I can see Word is slightly different, it has only a close icon repeated (but I think that is a change that came about as part of office 2002). From mistwireless.com!ajanicijevic Mon Apr 26 22:58:40 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from dmz1.mistwireless.com ([216.95.202.131]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 22:58:40 BST 2004 Received: from aleksandarj (dhcp-1-160.mistwireless.com [192.168.1.160]) by dmz1.mistwireless.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i3QLrLJl015909 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:53:21 -0400 From: "Aleksandar Janicijevic" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Question Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:55:14 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: > > what sort of `decent desktop-class GUI' did you have in mind? > i ask because how easy it would be to do would depend on what you > had in mind. > What I have in mind would be a library/module/set of modules that would enable one to develop an Inferno application that would sport look and feel that most people would be comfortable working with. For example, ideally I could pick a drawing program running on Inferno (native or hosted) and having all sorts of widgets: toolbars, dialog and message boxes, scroll bars, clipboard usage through keyboard shortcuts and so on, you get the idea. If someone developed that kind of GUI library, then someone would use it to develop that kind of applications, and then we would get some "typical" desktop computer users that would use Inferno daily. Then we would have an OS that not only is about the most portable in the world and has a very neat design, but is also quite usable. From rog Mon Apr 26 23:00:51 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Question Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:00:51 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <408DA621.8060409@syntelos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit jdp@altair.syntelos.com: > Dynamic linking or configuration? > > I have a small variety of sparcstations (SS10, SS4, U1, U2) for my > native Inferno/ OpenBoot research project, but time..... > > Anyone working in this area? i'm not sure i understand the question. From innerghost.net!hugo Mon Apr 26 23:15:15 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from haven.innerghost.net ([213.22.117.228]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 23:15:15 BST 2004 Received: from navi.innerghost.net (navi.innerghost.net [10.23.1.11]) by haven.innerghost.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4FEFEC604 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:09:54 +0100 (WEST) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] list archives? (grid software) From: Hugo Santos To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <1083009648.2921.33.camel@navi> References: <1083009648.2921.33.camel@navi> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1083017343.2921.36.camel@navi> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.5.7 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:09:03 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I searched through the list archives (April archive) and didn't find any info about what i was searching. Is 'grid/srv/monitor' part of the commercial inferno package only? I just checked the inferno online man pages and 'monitor' is documented. I'm using 4ed cdinstall and it wasn't installed. Maybe my mistake? Thanks, Hugo On Mon, 2004-04-26 at 21:00 +0100, Hugo Santos wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to know if there are any list archives since i wouldn't > like to make duplicate questions :) > If there aren't, i would like to know if there is any documentation on > setuping inferno grids, or how the demo grid was setuped. > > Thanks in advance, > Hugo Santos > > > From ece.cmu.edu!pstanley Tue Apr 27 01:07:22 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Tue Apr 27 01:07:22 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.71.245] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.71.245]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 563157C; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:02:02 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <008401c42c0e$c39a4c50$7308989e@MICHAEL> References: <008401c42c0e$c39a4c50$7308989e@MICHAEL> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <1BB8AE32-97DE-11D8-A076-000A95C53D8A@ece.cmu.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: phillip stanley-marbell Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Question Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:02:01 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) ... But you can easily write applications that detect (by probing ctxt) if they are being run in the context of Wm and eschew the creation of a titlebar if they're not. I'm of the opinion that all programs that draw on the screen should allocate their own ctxt if one is not extant, for the very reason of being able to run either in Wm or taking up the whole display as a standalone app. Not that this is a nice UI (although I personally like it), here is a screenhot of an application that does the above. I distribute single binary images to users on OSX, Linux and Windows (i.e., no need to have inferno installed). Besides the "inferno" in the titlebar (which could easily be removed if desired), all the users know is that they are running some program over Nt/OSX/Linux: http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~pstanley/mgui-screenshot-mac.jpg It is nice to be able to distribute a single < 1MB binary to people, which has the emulator, application and all the necessary fonts / images rolled into it, and to easily generate such binaries for (many!) different platforms. Talking about this gets me excited, so i'll stop here. cheers, phillip Dept. of ECE, Carnegie Mellon | http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~pstanley On Apr 27, 2004, at 12:17 AM, Michael Jeffrey wrote: > for experimenting in ways that Inferno apps could run inside a window > provided > by a host environment. I just tried running wm/bounce from an emu > console > instead of the usual 'wm/wm wm/logon' and sure enough I got the bounce > app > running maximised inside a Windows window. But things don't look quite > right: > the Windows window has Inferno in the title bar and the Inferno Window > has bounce, and they both have an X icon. From rog Tue Apr 27 01:13:30 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Question Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:13:30 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <1BB8AE32-97DE-11D8-A076-000A95C53D8A@ece.cmu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm of the opinion that all programs that draw on the screen should > allocate their own ctxt if one is not extant, for the very reason of > being able to run either in Wm or taking up the whole display as a > standalone app. actually, that's only a good idea if the application does not create any extra windows. if it does, there won't be a window manager around to manage them. that's why it's not automatic. > http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~pstanley/mgui-screenshot-mac.jpg gosh, that's very pink :-) From xaplos.com!macrod Tue Apr 27 05:01:23 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.64]) by doppio; Tue Apr 27 05:01:23 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040427003325.PIXC1773.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:33:25 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Updated licence pages and ordering information Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:33:12 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <017901c42b07$d483a820$7308989e@MICHAEL> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcQqxbeSt2CS8NwuSE6o0kDgZIm5+wBKThTw Message-Id: <20040427003325.PIXC1773.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > This liberal and commercial licences are both 'perpetual' Thank you for clarifying this for me. While I hope we can work out a commercial license agreement, I'm happy to know that we can always select the 'open source' approach and continue to use Inferno. Thanks, -Mark From xaplos.com!macrod Tue Apr 27 05:01:24 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.64]) by doppio; Tue Apr 27 05:01:24 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040427003058.PHOX1773.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:30:58 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Question Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:30:55 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcQr2+ClH5q+1QdbTheJJ8Bv9oe3VgAERcWw Message-Id: <20040427003058.PHOX1773.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > What I have in mind would be a library/module/set of modules that would > enable one to develop an Inferno application that would sport look and > feel that most people would be comfortable working with. One thing I've been thinking about quite a bit is trying to implement a themes-based GUI using the TK library. When running within a hosted environment, the current GUI (while some may consider not pretty on the eyes) works OK and is fine for the screen real estate of a "normal" desktop; however, Inferno is designed to run on multiple devices including those with limited resources. I'm not that familiar with TK [yet] so perhaps something already exists, but it would be great if one could take their existing GUI definitions in TK and have the individual widgets rendered according to some predefined theme. For example when working in a hosted environment a button may look like that of a 'traditional' Windows button while when working with a pager size display a button might take on the form of a PDA-type button found on the Palm. Smaller resolution screens could even take a button and not render the border but simply draw an underline under the text. If the user could easily set the theme globally within their application (or make a system call to find out what environment they are currently running on), this would make Inferno applications truly portable. I can imagine Charon running "as is" within my emu, but taking on a more appropriate theme when run on a 160 x 160 PDA sized screen. Thanks, -Mark From ece.cmu.edu!pstanley Tue Apr 27 14:29:49 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Tue Apr 27 14:29:49 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.71.245] (unknown [128.2.71.245]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75A427C; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:24:29 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <431f61b12d573907d56e33ab761cd724@vitanuova.com> References: <431f61b12d573907d56e33ab761cd724@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <36037292-984E-11D8-841D-000A95C53D8A@ece.cmu.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: phillip stanley-marbell Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Question Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:24:28 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Goes without saying. Making the change makes the creator of the application consider that fact that the application might be run w/o a Wm, and possibly structure it accordingly, or ... if you are creating multiple host windows in a single Inferno session (when you can). cheers, phillip On Apr 26, 2004, at 8:13 PM, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > actually, that's only a good idea if the application does not create > any extra windows. if it does, there won't be a window manager > around to manage them. > > that's why it's not automatic. From rog Tue Apr 27 14:32:46 BST 2004 remote from presto To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Question Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:32:46 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <36037292-984E-11D8-841D-000A95C53D8A@ece.cmu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Goes without saying. Making the change makes the creator > of the application consider that fact that the application might > be run w/o a Wm, and possibly structure it accordingly, or > ... if you are creating multiple host windows in a single Inferno > session (when you can). yes, but it doesn't *quite* go without saying, 'cos i did the interface wrong the first time, and then was surprised when some programs didn't work properly... From forsyth Tue Apr 27 14:33:18 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Question From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:33:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>What I have in mind would be a library/module/set of modules that would >>enable one to develop an Inferno application that would sport look and feel >>that most people would be comfortable working with. For example, ideally I >>could pick a drawing program running on Inferno (native or hosted) and >>having all sorts of widgets: toolbars, dialog and message boxes, scroll >>bars, clipboard usage through keyboard shortcuts and so on, you get the >>idea. If someone developed that kind of GUI library, then someone would use have you looked at section 9 of the Programmer's Manual, which describes the Tk toolkit and `all sorts of widgets'? well, perhaps not ALL sorts but certainly quite a few, including some of those you've mentioned. From mistwireless.com!ajanicijevic Tue Apr 27 15:49:44 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from dmz1.mistwireless.com ([216.95.202.131]) by doppio; Tue Apr 27 15:49:44 BST 2004 Received: from aleksandarj (dhcp-1-160.mistwireless.com [192.168.1.160]) by dmz1.mistwireless.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i3REiOJl023545 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:44:24 -0400 From: "Aleksandar Janicijevic" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Question Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:46:18 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <15d2110c814dcdc8a06b9c44e7de5d1c@vitanuova.com> > > have you looked at section 9 of the Programmer's > Manual, which describes the Tk toolkit and `all sorts of widgets'? > well, perhaps not ALL sorts but certainly quite a few, including > some of those you've mentioned. > I just have, and it does look like a fairly complete basis for application development. I don't have experience with Tcl/Tk, but I would guess if Inferno's Tk was modelled after Tcl/Tk it would be quite usable for most applications. What ever widget would be missing, one could develop as some sort of extension, right? If that is so, then I guess the next step is that developers start developing applications. When the critical mass of applications is created, the users will start noticing. Let me explain why I think all this is important: the present situation with widespread OSs is less than satisfactory. If I purchase the latest version of Windows, whichever it is at the moment, in all likelyhood some of my old applications won't work on it. Or vice versa, say I want to purchase some cool music creation software, but it turns out it only supports Windows XP/2000/Me, and I want to stick to NT 4.0 for whatever reason (maybe I have somewhat older hardware and XP would just choke on it). Linux is better in that respect, but it is not ideal either. With Inferno there is a solution: if I have a port of it for my version of whatever OS, then I can use an app for *Inferno* and avoid compatibility problems. From a programmer's perspective: I can develop a program for Inferno and it will be usable by owners of all versions of Windows, Linux, FreeBSD or whatever. Java also solves this, but Inferno has some advantages (nicer design, language-neutral, less resource-hungry...). Scripting languages, like my all-time-favourite Python, offer a solution as well, but they have worse performance and contrary to all claims they are still not 100% portable because they are not independent of the host OS. From forsyth Tue Apr 27 16:50:33 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Question From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:50:33 +0100 In-Reply-To: <408DA621.8060409@syntelos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-uprxjbzaegtkdhzmyjuttucudg" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-uprxjbzaegtkdhzmyjuttucudg Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes, most of the C compilers for the native environment now include the support for type-checked dynamic linking, and the libdynld library provides run-time support for it. the type checking is based on a modified `signof' operator previously in the C compilers (it actually didn't work efficiently or indeed quite correctly, but now does both). type checking is important, and has already found some bugs, one of them serious, in existing code. a device driver provides support for dynamically loaded device drivers, and there is support for dynamically loaded C interface modules, again for the native kernels. dynld(10.2) if it exists in your copy of the electronic manual pages shows the low-level interface, though i might change it slightly to simplify it. it's tiny anyway. dynld(3) shows the initial interface for loadable device drivers. i'm currently merging all manner of other changes in with those to resynchronise the compiler suites. --upas-uprxjbzaegtkdhzmyjuttucudg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from altair.syntelos.com ([204.193.147.240]) by doppio; Mon Apr 26 22:33:54 BST 2004 Received: from syntelos.com (pool-141-153-163-69.mad.east.verizon.net [141.153.163.69]) by altair.syntelos.com (8.10.2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i3QLSWR10340; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:28:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <408DA621.8060409@syntelos.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:15:29 -0700 From: John Pritchard Organization: http://www.syntelos.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, fr-fr, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Question Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Dynamic linking or configuration? I have a small variety of sparcstations (SS10, SS4, U1, U2) for my native Inferno/ OpenBoot research project, but time..... Anyone working in this area? Curious, John --upas-uprxjbzaegtkdhzmyjuttucudg-- From rog Tue Apr 27 19:40:22 BST 2004 remote from presto To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Question Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:40:22 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > What ever widget would be missing, one could develop as some > sort of extension, right? there's no easy way of extending the tk widget set in an orthogonal way currently (you can provide a limbo interface to a new kind of widget, but can't provide something that looks like just another tk widget). how one might go about this has been the subject of much discussion over the years.... From xaplos.com!macrod Wed Apr 28 13:04:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.64]) by doppio; Wed Apr 28 13:04:52 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040427183008.UOIT1774.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:30:08 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: Built-in Modules Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:30:00 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcQshaYt9mQIHfrDTDWxkkiRE3SQDA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20040427183008.UOIT1774.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Looking at Inferno, I noticed that in general frequently used routines (i.e., Sys, Tk, Math, Crypt, Draw, etc.) are implemented as built-in modules using C. Knowing there is a tradeoff (i.e., performance, memory, debugging support, kernel space, etc.), is there a general rule for deciding when to implement something as a built-in module? I'm currently looking into using Inferno for a project and need the following functionality: 1. Web server (already available) 2. Bluetooth stack 3. XML parsing 4. Encryption (already available) 5. Embedded, local database 6. Free form text indexing and searching tool As an example, I'm sure I can implement an XML module in Limbo; however, what advantages / disadvantage would I gain / loose if I implemented XML handling as a built-in module? What about the other items listed above? While I'm hoping for a definitive answer, I realize that there might not be a clear recommendation. Any insight or recommendations in how to decide when to move from Limbo-based modules to built-in C-based modules would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, -Mark From forsyth Wed Apr 28 13:11:53 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Built-in Modules From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:11:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040427183008.UOIT1774.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit we have various bits to support basic XML parsing (the work that's never ever complete because w3c keeps adding bits to it, all right all right not the basic syntax but you need to support loads of other things) do XML in Limbo. it's far far easier, and manipulation of complex structures and lots of strings is just the thing for Limbo, partly because of automatic storage reclamation. so that one was an easy case! i'll think a little bit whether there's a general rule (probably not). From suspicious.org!suspect Wed Apr 28 14:20:34 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Wed Apr 28 14:20:34 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.102] (c-24-3-193-160.client.comcast.net [24.3.193.160]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B083E86; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:33:08 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1083009648.2921.33.camel@navi> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org Subject: Re: [inferno-list] list archives? (grid software) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:32:50 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) There is a faq in english (and a chinese translation) at http://inferno.gemusehaken.org/limbo-faq/english/ and http://inferno.gemusehaken.org/limbo-faq/chinese/ They could both use a lot of work, but I guess you just offered to bring them up to date, yeah ? :) cheers, On Apr 26, 2004, at 4:23 PM, FODEMESI Gergely wrote: > > List might need a faq? > > Gergo From forsyth Wed Apr 28 14:23:54 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Built-in Modules From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:23:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040427183008.UOIT1774.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i thought before looking at generalities i might as well look at more on your specific list: 2. bluetooth stack it's a big one. the short answer is that some of it will be in C in the kernel, and some of it can be in Limbo. one approach i've used in the past is to get to know the protocol by doing a low-level (MAC i suppose) driver for the kernel, to get the raw bytes/packets out; then write even the link level (eg, LAP) in Limbo first. not the fastest, but sometimes adequate even so. later, once i know what i'm doing, i convert the LAP driver to a conventional network driver in the kernel. the structure of the Limbo implementation is often rather different from the kernel's; that's not the point. the aim is both to get experience with the protocol and also implement more of the higher levels of the stack sooner rather than later. another observation is that, as i've done with IrDA and others in the past, with Inferno and Styx you can stop sooner than implement the whole stacks. once you've got a sequenced reliable transport, you can just run Styx, and that can also multiplex the connection, AND provide application-level access (in a much more convenient way than some!). From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed Apr 28 20:53:21 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed Apr 28 20:53:21 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Question From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:47:30 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040427003058.PHOX1773.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>One thing I've been thinking about quite a bit is trying to implement a >>themes-based GUI using the TK library. When running within a hosted >>environment, the current GUI (while some may consider not pretty on the >>eyes) works OK and is fine for the screen real estate of a "normal" desktop; >>however, Inferno is designed to run on multiple devices including those with >>limited resources. that actually can work not too badly, based on my experience with devices such as the iPAQ and some other proprietary devices. the key thing is not to try to tune the Tk strings in the application, and the less said there, the better. thus `scrollbar' is fine, but `scrollbar -width 10 -height 20' makes it harder to adjust automatically (short of ignoring parameters). some global parameters such as the default sizing and location of windows and the height and style of toolbars can be set by the window manager (perhaps one that is itself tuned for the environment). it works better with the new (4e) wm than the old, partly because the new one is more modular and has a different approach to putting the window on the screen. the 3e system had quite a lot of the windowing mechanics built-in to the kernel Tk. that's also why it was harder (not impossible but harder) to arrange remote display. From juice.thebigchoice.com!matt Wed Apr 28 22:55:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com ([80.4.204.18]) by doppio; Wed Apr 28 22:55:45 BST 2004 Message-ID: X-TAG: matty Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:52:45 +0100 From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Question In-Reply-To: <002d01c42c1c$0d4c09d0$7308989e@MICHAEL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > As far as I can see Word is slightly different, it has only a close icon > repeated (but I think that is a change that came about as part of office 2002). I think the MDI view (multiple document interface) is being deprecated In Office 2000, word uses that behaviour Excel retains it (even though it also has tabbed workbooks) As does access and powerpoint. I don't think MDIs worked out too well with overlapping windows. I did like the way Visial Studio was going with non-overlapping windows. Imagine what a nightmare using Acme would be if each window was floating, though the ability to "tear off" an acme window using Tear to a new instance of acme just struck me as a useful feature. m From parvat.com!martin_ml Thu Apr 29 05:14:50 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.177]) by doppio; Thu Apr 29 05:14:50 BST 2004 Received: from [212.227.126.208] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BJ2ra-00018w-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:09:30 +0200 Received: from [203.101.51.122] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BJ2rZ-0002vh-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:09:29 +0200 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:39:20 +0530 From: Martin C. Atkins To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Built-in Modules Message-Id: <20040429093920.5e6ce5dc.martin_ml@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: <596920a10eadcd44c02382d3030ff37d@vitanuova.com> References: <20040427183008.UOIT1774.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> <596920a10eadcd44c02382d3030ff37d@vitanuova.com> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:36ac05c78f2d71fdd8502b36d47d3e88 On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:23:54 +0100 C H Forsyth wrote: > i thought before looking at generalities i might as well look at more on your specific list: > > 2. bluetooth stack >... > another observation is that, as i've done with IrDA and others in the past, with > Inferno and Styx you can stop sooner than implement the whole stacks. > once you've got a sequenced reliable transport, you can just run Styx, and > that can also multiplex the connection, AND provide application-level access > (in a much more convenient way than some!). That is, of course, assuming that you only want to use IrDA/Bluetooth to network Inferno, or styx-aware, devices. If you want either supported to be able to talk to your mobile phone/etc., then you'll need the whole stack! (But that's obvious, I hope, so why am I writing it? Dunno! :-) Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin_ml@parvat.com Parvat Infotech Private Limited http://www.parvat.com{/,/martin} From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Apr 30 19:14:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Apr 30 19:14:36 BST 2004 Message-ID: <0642af1e0c457e5ed7d05bd5abadd575@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Question From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:08:40 +0100 In-Reply-To: <21b68b23bdcec7ffa35ef59b83ff5f26@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>i'm currently merging all manner of other changes in with >>those to resynchronise the compiler suites. i've nearly finished that. just a few more bits to do. From vitanuova.com!michael Wed May 5 14:32:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 62.254.170.97 ([62.254.170.97]) by doppio; Wed May 5 14:32:27 BST 2004 Message-ID: <000201c432e7$dbc484a0$220101c8@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: <1083009648.2921.33.camel@navi> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] list archives? (grid software) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 13:46:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 The Inferno Grid applications are sold under a commercial licence. We have made versions available free of charge for evaluation, particularly to academic institutions. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hugo Santos" To: Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 1:00 PM Subject: [inferno-list] list archives? (grid software) > Hi, > > I would like to know if there are any list archives since i wouldn't > like to make duplicate questions :) > If there aren't, i would like to know if there is any documentation on > setuping inferno grids, or how the demo grid was setuped. > > Thanks in advance, > Hugo Santos > > From igd.fhg.de!christoph.hornung Wed May 5 16:02:13 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from loki.igd.fhg.de ([192.44.32.17]) by doppio; Wed May 5 16:02:13 BST 2004 Received: from igd.fhg.de (host1336.igd.fhg.de [146.140.6.56]) by loki.igd.fhg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98EA17D6D for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 16:56:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <409900AA.1090903@igd.fhg.de> Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 16:56:42 +0200 From: "Dr. Christoph Hornung" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040421 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] list archives? (grid software) References: <1083009648.2921.33.camel@navi> <000201c432e7$dbc484a0$220101c8@MICHAEL> In-Reply-To: <000201c432e7$dbc484a0$220101c8@MICHAEL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi, very good and very successful for Inferno. Especially for R&D-institutes, the availability of free of charge software supporting high innovative applications is essential ch Michael Jeffrey wrote: > The Inferno Grid applications are sold under a > commercial licence. We have made versions available > free of charge for evaluation, particularly to > academic institutions. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hugo Santos" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 1:00 PM > Subject: [inferno-list] list archives? (grid software) > > > >>Hi, >> >>I would like to know if there are any list archives since i wouldn't >>like to make duplicate questions :) >>If there aren't, i would like to know if there is any documentation on >>setuping inferno grids, or how the demo grid was setuped. >> >>Thanks in advance, >>Hugo Santos >> >> -- Dr. Christoph Hornung Leiter Abteilung e-Learning & Knowledge Management Fh-IGD Fraunhoferstraย€e 5 D-64283 Darmstadt Tel: ++49 (0) 6151/155-560 Fax: ++49 (0) 6151/155-569 Mobil: 0175-4333-156 Email: christoph.hornung@igd.fraunhofer.de From igd.fhg.de!christoph.hornung Wed May 5 17:19:10 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from loki.igd.fhg.de ([192.44.32.17]) by doppio; Wed May 5 17:19:10 BST 2004 Received: from igd.fhg.de (host1336.igd.fhg.de [146.140.6.56]) by loki.igd.fhg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B19317B2E for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 18:13:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <409912B0.1050007@igd.fhg.de> Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 18:13:36 +0200 From: "Dr. Christoph Hornung" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040421 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: "OpenInferno"? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi, is there any "OpenInferno" Community, where open applications, drivers etc. are available and common projects are under development? ch -- Dr. Christoph Hornung Leiter Abteilung e-Learning & Knowledge Management Fh-IGD Fraunhoferstraย€e 5 D-64283 Darmstadt Tel: ++49 (0) 6151/155-560 Fax: ++49 (0) 6151/155-569 Mobil: 0175-4333-156 Email: christoph.hornung@igd.fraunhofer.de From dunasoft.com!hermantom Thu May 6 00:05:24 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from eos.fwall.u-szeged.hu ([160.114.120.248]) by doppio; Thu May 6 00:05:24 BST 2004 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=eos.fwall.u-szeged.hu) by eos.fwall.u-szeged.hu with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BLVMv-0004xE-1a for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 06 May 2004 01:00:01 +0200 Received: from eos.fwall.u-szeged.hu ([127.0.0.1]) by eos.fwall.u-szeged.hu (SAVSMTP 3.1.0.29) with SMTP id M2004050601000002522 for ; Thu, 06 May 2004 01:00:00 +0200 Received: from sol.cc.u-szeged.hu ([160.114.8.24]) by eos.fwall.u-szeged.hu with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BLVMu-0004x8-UJ for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 06 May 2004 01:00:00 +0200 Received: from cab.bio.u-szeged.hu ([160.114.27.135] helo=dunasoft.com) by sol.cc.u-szeged.hu with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BLVMu-0006Tp-O7 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 06 May 2004 01:00:00 +0200 Message-ID: <409971B2.7040200@dunasoft.com> Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 00:58:58 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Herman_Tam=E1s?= User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (X11/20040208) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] "OpenInferno"? References: <409912B0.1050007@igd.fhg.de> In-Reply-To: <409912B0.1050007@igd.fhg.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SZTE-local: YES X-SZTE-AVcheck: YES Dr. Christoph Hornung wrote: > is there any "OpenInferno" Community, where open applications, drivers > etc. are available and common projects are under development? my friend is the owner of inferno.hu domain & he promised that it can b used 4 free for inferno related stuff, until he doesnt sell it, or use it 4 his own -- not yet existing -- inferno ltd ;) From xaplos.com!macrod Thu May 6 01:28:35 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.64]) by doppio; Thu May 6 01:28:35 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040505210608.IWBD16168.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 17:06:08 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] "OpenInferno"? Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 17:06:06 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <409912B0.1050007@igd.fhg.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcQyvW13ik0qzrrQRni7m84iG5IPagAJnQZg Message-Id: <20040505210608.IWBD16168.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > > is there any "OpenInferno" Community, where open applications, drivers > etc. are available and common projects are under development? > I've been searching the net a lot these past few weeks on Inferno/Limbo and believe I have most of the resources bookmarked. Unfortunately during my [many] searches, I've not been able to find any such resource. If one exists, I too would be very interested. I'm assuming most users/developers are under the liberal license which means some source should be available... Thanks, -Mark From comcast.net!caerwyn Thu May 6 03:21:44 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.202.64]) by doppio; Thu May 6 03:21:44 BST 2004 From: comcast.net!caerwyn To: vitanuova.com!inferno-list Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 02:16:21 +0000 (GMT) X-Comment: Sending client does not conform to RFC822 minimum requirements X-Comment: Date has been added by Maillennium Received: from comcast.net (h000c41af2c71.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.7.243]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004050602162001600d42tse>; Thu, 6 May 2004 02:16:20 +0000 Subject: RE: [inferno-list] "OpenInferno"? > I've been searching the net a lot these past few weeks on Inferno/Limbo and > believe I have most of the resources bookmarked. In case you missed it, http://caerwyn.home.comcast.net/ contains a mix of C and Limbo tools. I'll put my tickfs on the site soon. This is basically a styx interface to a Btree written in limbo. It replaces the lookfs I already have on the site. It needs more work but if anyone is interested in testing and reviewing the code, send me a note and I'll forward what I have. -Caerwyn From xaplos.com!macrod Thu May 6 04:16:53 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.66]) by doppio; Thu May 6 04:16:53 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040506022726.NKZ1249.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 22:27:26 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: Support for C Callbacks Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 22:27:23 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcQzEanQ9YsFUL8TRzC8jGpFFkOfbA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20040506022726.NKZ1249.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> I'm working on my first built-in module, but my underlying C code contains a callback function. How can I support this within my Limbo module definition? The existing code has a callback prototype similar to: typedef int (*callback)(void*, int, char**, char**); and I implement the C routine as: int Callback(void *pArg, int argc, char **argv, char **names){ return 0; } How would I define my Limbo module so when I run 'limbo -a' it would set up a corresponding header file with a similar structure? I'd like to be able to write the Callback function in Limbo. Thanks, -Mark From bellsouth.net!blstuart Thu May 6 06:05:40 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf01aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.49]) by doppio; Thu May 6 06:05:40 BST 2004 Received: from bellsouth.net ([65.4.244.31]) by imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with SMTP id <20040506034827.PCPI15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 23:48:27 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com From: blstuart@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Support for C Callbacks In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 5 May 2004 22:27:23 -0400 . <20040506022726.NKZ1249.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 21:39:52 -0500 Sender: blstuart@imf01aec.mail.bellsouth.net Message-Id: <20040506034827.PCPI15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> In message <20040506022726.NKZ1249.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos>, "Mark F Rodriguez" writes: >I'm working on my first built-in module, but my underlying C code contains a >callback function. How can I support this within my Limbo module definition? I'm certainly no Limbo guru, but it appears to me that the best way to do this is to encapsulate each callback function into a module with the same function name. Then pass the module names to whoever calls the callback. This does seem a little cumbersome, however. There's a part of me that thinks there should be some way to do this with an adt, but I'm drawing a blank. Brian L. Stuart From bellsouth.net!blstuart Thu May 6 06:05:41 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf01aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.49]) by doppio; Thu May 6 06:05:41 BST 2004 Received: from bellsouth.net ([65.4.244.31]) by imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with SMTP id <20040506043323.PSPF15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 00:33:23 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com From: blstuart@bellsouth.net Subject: A few fixes Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 22:24:47 -0500 Sender: blstuart Message-Id: <20040506043323.PSPF15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> For those who might be interesed in building native versions of Inferno, here are a few patches that might be of some help. The changes to port/devsd.c and init/shell.b allow the system to compile. The changes to pc/devvga.c makes #v work correctly. These patches are against the 20040331 release. Also, I've gotten cpu working by forward porting dis/auxi/cpuslave.dis. However, the only copy of the source I have is 3rd ed. Is it ok to post a version for 4th ed or should we consider that file covered by the older license? Brian L. Stuart *** devsd.c.dist Wed May 5 23:08:25 2004 --- devsd.c Wed May 5 23:09:02 2004 *************** *** 154,160 **** } if(i >= unit->npart) error(Ebadctl); ! if(strcmp(up->user, pp->user) && !iseve()) error(Eperm); pp->valid = 0; pp->vers++; --- 154,160 ---- } if(i >= unit->npart) error(Ebadctl); ! if(strcmp(up->env->user, pp->user) && !iseve()) error(Eperm); pp->valid = 0; pp->vers++; *************** *** 726,732 **** qlock(&unit->ctl); while(waserror()){ /* notification of media change; go around again */ ! if(strcmp(up->errstr, Eio) == 0 && unit->sectors == 0 && nchange++ == 0){ sdinitpart(unit); continue; } --- 726,732 ---- qlock(&unit->ctl); while(waserror()){ /* notification of media change; go around again */ ! if(strcmp(up->env->errstr, Eio) == 0 && unit->sectors == 0 && nchange++ == 0){ sdinitpart(unit); continue; } *************** *** 1274,1280 **** break; } ! if(strcmp(up->user, perm->user) && !iseve()) error(Eperm); d = smalloc(sizeof(Dir)+n); --- 1274,1280 ---- break; } ! if(strcmp(up->env->user, perm->user) && !iseve()) error(Eperm); d = smalloc(sizeof(Dir)+n); *** shell.b.dist Wed May 5 23:17:28 2004 --- shell.b Wed May 5 23:17:02 2004 *************** *** 53,59 **** sys->print("eia data open: %r\n"); return; } ! if (sys->export(fd, Sys->EXPASYNC) < 0) { sys->print("export: %r\n"); return; } --- 53,59 ---- sys->print("eia data open: %r\n"); return; } ! if (sys->export(fd, "/", Sys->EXPASYNC) < 0) { sys->print("export: %r\n"); return; } *** devvga.c.dist Fri Apr 9 08:52:24 2004 --- devvga.c Wed May 5 23:19:37 2004 *************** *** 25,31 **** enum { Nvgaseg = 4, ! Qdir, Qvgactl, Qvgaovl, Qvgaovlctl, --- 25,31 ---- enum { Nvgaseg = 4, ! Qdir = 0, Qvgactl, Qvgaovl, Qvgaovlctl, *************** *** 233,245 **** Walkqid* vgawalk(Chan* c, Chan *nc, char** name, int nname) { ! return devwalk(c, nc, name, nname, vgadir, nelem(vgadir), devgen); } static int vgastat(Chan* c, uchar* dp, int n) { ! return devstat(c, dp, n, vgadir, nelem(vgadir), devgen); } static Chan* --- 233,245 ---- Walkqid* vgawalk(Chan* c, Chan *nc, char** name, int nname) { ! return devwalk(c, nc, name, nname, vgadir, nvgadir, devgen); } static int vgastat(Chan* c, uchar* dp, int n) { ! return devstat(c, dp, n, vgadir, nvgadir, devgen); } static Chan* *************** *** 255,261 **** else error(Enonexist); } ! return devopen(c, omode, vgadir, nelem(vgadir), devgen); } static void --- 255,261 ---- else error(Enonexist); } ! return devopen(c, omode, vgadir, nvgadir, devgen); } static void *************** *** 302,308 **** switch((ulong)c->qid.path){ case Qdir: ! return devdirread(c, a, n, vgadir, nelem(vgadir), devgen); case Qvgactl: scr = &vgascreen[0]; --- 302,308 ---- switch((ulong)c->qid.path){ case Qdir: ! return devdirread(c, a, n, vgadir, nvgadir, devgen); case Qvgactl: scr = &vgascreen[0]; From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu May 6 09:16:03 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu May 6 09:16:03 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Support for C Callbacks From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:09:49 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040506034827.PCPI15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you can pass a module to another, but generally, and almost invariably when there is more than one thing going on, we replace a callback structure by a process structure: the callback action is replaced by a message send on a channel. sometimes the initiator provides the channel; sometimes the channel is returned from an initialisation function in the called module. see http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/doc/89/1-a.ps.gz for a discussion of this approach to building a programming interface to a window system, in contrast to the usual event-driven style (with callbacks, cf. X11). in fact, the current Inferno window system was modelled on that one. for a built-in module, it is probably easiest to have the application that is interacting with the built-in module provide an appropriate channel itself. see Tk->namechan for example: namechan: fn(t: ref Toplevel, c: chan of string, n: string): string; when something happens, a message is sent to a Limbo application receiving on channel c; alternatively, to show that giving a channel a textual name isn't necessary, the select function of Prefab->Compound: select: fn(comp: self ref Compound, elem: ref Element, i: int, c: chan of int): (int, int, ref Element); which reads remote control selections from channel c until the user chosen something from the menu represented by the Compound, and select then returns the index. From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu May 6 09:44:03 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu May 6 09:44:03 BST 2004 Message-ID: <895e24cc00308371fa0fba16d6eb784e@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] list archives? (grid software) From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:37:49 +0100 In-Reply-To: <409900AA.1090903@igd.fhg.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit there is always a tension between making things available (nearly) free-of-charge and losing our collective shirts. following stallman perhaps we ought to work as waiters but i'd be closer in effect to Depardieu (as waiter) in `Green Card', and i'm a bit better at software, especially when the hardware works. also, if i'm spending most of my time waiting, writing the software will have to wait too. i thought the Demo grid software was in the distribution, though; i'll check. the demo is actually unrelated to the commercial product, but was more the second prototype (the first two sank into the swamp, but the third one stayed up!). From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu May 6 13:22:01 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu May 6 13:22:01 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] A few fixes From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 13:15:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040506043323.PSPF15189.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thank you. how annoying all round: i'd already made those changes to devsd.c twice, the first time including some stylistic changes that i then suggested be made to Plan 9's, and once those were done i'd copied back the revised version, made the necessary Infernal changes a second time, only to botch the update back from my own development system at home to the development system at work. i thought i was going mad until i looked through the dump history. i'd still have noticed when checking the distribution except for the second mistake, that pc/mkfile didn't include a disk-based system in CONFLIST. now that kfs is there, there will be. devvga.c was more reprehensible, less of an accident, more of a botch. sorry. i'll should have included a comment in the file that explained its status. finally, i put cpuslave back in our distribution list, but i need to consult roger about its future. as an aside: the directory is called auxi not aux because of Windows' strangeness. it's the same for a file called (say) con.c, which was renamed scon.c, or aux.c, renamed auxil.c i think. bizarre. From proxima.alt.za!lucio Thu May 6 13:45:57 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za ([196.30.44.141]) by doppio; Thu May 6 13:45:57 BST 2004 Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i46CeR04010265 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 14:40:29 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <85b05ed65365ddc9f8cc25cf3f890148@proxima.alt.za> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] A few fixes Reply-to: lucio@proxima.alt.za Organization: Proxima Research & Development X-Mailer: Plan 9 ACME/Mail Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:40:23 +0200 From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > as an aside: the directory is called auxi not aux because of Windows' strangeness. > it's the same for a file called (say) con.c, which was renamed scon.c, > or aux.c, renamed auxil.c i think. bizarre. There used to be an option, way back in MSDOS 2.x that allowed you to specify that special files (AUX, PRN, CON, LPTx, NUL, COMx, I'm not sure I have them all) had to be accessed as \DEV\name. I think it survived as long as the "switchar" option that allowed the use of "-" as the option prefix on command lines. There were other oddities, but these are quite enough. My personal gripe is the trailing "." in filenames, which windows to this day chooses to treat as non-existent. I've never been brave enough to try to determine what exactly "case aware but not sensitive" means as applied to file names. Blame it all on CP/M and indirectly on Intel. ++L From cooper.edu!salomo3 Thu May 6 16:59:08 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wish.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.74]) by doppio; Thu May 6 16:59:08 BST 2004 Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 11D813938; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:41:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 735973937 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from noun.ee.cooper.edu ([199.98.20.225]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish with HTTP; Thu, 6 May 2004 11:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1157.199.98.20.225.1083858059.squirrel@wish> In-Reply-To: <85b05ed65365ddc9f8cc25cf3f890148@proxima.alt.za> References: <85b05ed65365ddc9f8cc25cf3f890148@proxima.alt.za> Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] A few fixes From: "Joel Salomon" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-19.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable lucio@proxima.alt.za said: >> as an aside: the directory is called auxi not aux because of Windows' >> strangeness. >> it's the same for a file called (say) con.c, which was renamed scon.c, >> or aux.c, renamed auxil.c i think. bizarre. > There were other oddities, but these are quite enough. My personal > gripe is the trailing "." in filenames, which windows to this day > chooses to treat as non-existent. I've never been brave enough to try > to determine what exactly "case aware but not sensitive" means as > applied to file names. > For extra fun, install the ms SFU posix package - you get case sensitivit= y that *nothing* under outside the posix subsystem knows about, untouchable files named aux... great fun. > Blame it all on CP/M and indirectly on Intel. > > ++L Nahhh... let's still blame microsoft ;-) --Joel From ti.com!cbarrera Fri May 7 12:56:41 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from go4.ext.ti.com ([192.91.75.132]) by doppio; Fri May 7 12:56:41 BST 2004 Received: from dmhp30.itg.ti.com ([134.183.41.209]) by go4.ext.ti.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i47BpGi4012639 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 06:51:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ti.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dmhp30.itg.ti.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i47BpESV025368 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 20:51:15 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <409B78C4.7090106@ti.com> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 20:53:40 +0900 From: Christopher Barrera User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Using GNU compilers to build Inferno Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I vaguely remember some previous discussion on this topic. What kind of results has anyone had attempting to use the Gnu compilers to build Inferno ? It seems that given the huge number of supported platforms, GCC might be ideal to replace the native compilers, whether being used to generate native code for the compiler host platform or as a cross-compiler. I do remember one comment that creating a cross-compiler was a pain in the you-know. Chris Barrera From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri May 7 13:39:44 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri May 7 13:39:44 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:33:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: <409B78C4.7090106@ti.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i started to type in some comments about that but it began to take longer than i've got time to finish at this instant! From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri May 7 13:53:34 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri May 7 13:53:34 BST 2004 Message-ID: <9eb3092abd7580727ab2b766ccc216d1@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:47:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: <409B78C4.7090106@ti.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>but it began to take longer than i've got time to >>finish at this instant! so meanwhile, i'll ask a different but related question, because i don't think i know the complete answer. how many (and which) complete C compilers are generally available, with source, for a plausible range of targets? (ignore cross-compilation for now.) gcc is one, of course, but there are others such as lcc. i don't require that they support everything under the sun. which of those provide a complete compiler suite (eg, from source to executable including linking, and library maintenance, and assembly if the compiler compiles to assembly code), or for which one can be provided separately for all required targets? which of those are easy to configure and use for arbitrary cross-compilation? From proxima.alt.za!lucio Fri May 7 14:01:29 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za ([196.30.44.141]) by doppio; Fri May 7 14:01:29 BST 2004 Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i47Ctw04018179 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 14:56:00 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno Reply-to: lucio@proxima.alt.za Organization: Proxima Research & Development X-Mailer: Plan 9 ACME/Mail Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:55:54 +0200 From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > i started to type in some comments about that > but it began to take longer than i've got time to > finish at this instant! What about: "Use the source, Luke!" It's more encouraging than "Blasphemy!" and equally unlikely to trigger a source rewrite. ++L From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri May 7 14:19:51 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri May 7 14:19:51 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:13:36 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-nfynajcnnsudwongwsrhbdqxgx" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-nfynajcnnsudwongwsrhbdqxgx Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the comments are a bit less abrupt than either of those --upas-nfynajcnnsudwongwsrhbdqxgx Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Fri May 7 14:03:42 BST 2004 Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za ([196.30.44.141]) by doppio; Fri May 7 14:01:29 BST 2004 Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i47Ctw04018179 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 14:56:00 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Organization: Proxima Research & Development X-Mailer: Plan 9 ACME/Mail Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:55:54 +0200 From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk > i started to type in some comments about that > but it began to take longer than i've got time to > finish at this instant! What about: "Use the source, Luke!" It's more encouraging than "Blasphemy!" and equally unlikely to trigger a source rewrite. ++L --upas-nfynajcnnsudwongwsrhbdqxgx-- From proxima.alt.za!lucio Fri May 7 14:43:25 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za ([196.30.44.141]) by doppio; Fri May 7 14:43:25 BST 2004 Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i47Dbt04018482 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 15:37:56 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <8a07a2f50606cc609f34bdf4095907bf@proxima.alt.za> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno Reply-to: lucio@proxima.alt.za Organization: Proxima Research & Development X-Mailer: Plan 9 ACME/Mail Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 15:37:51 +0200 From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > the comments are a bit less abrupt than either of those I'll await a rationale for veering from what seems to me like a very sound philosophy, namely to supply better than average, more or less unencumbered development tools with which to build the Inferno system. Using GCC would trigger licence considerations as even Theo van Raadt has pointed out and I'm not convinced that there are superior tools out there (I'm guessing, of course) that are significantly better than those in use now. These latter may be a little unorthodox, perhaps, in their implementation, but certainly adequate. My opinions, of course, I look forward to corrections. ++L From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri May 7 14:55:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri May 7 14:55:52 BST 2004 Message-ID: <4990bda7b8f1ac8ac7da1e1a94d323df@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:49:37 +0100 In-Reply-To: <8a07a2f50606cc609f34bdf4095907bf@proxima.alt.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>I'll await a rationale for veering from what seems to me like a very >>... >>in their implementation, but certainly adequate. the problem arises when the 9 suite doesn't include support for a particular architecture. it does handle most of the major ones but not (for instance) SH-3/4, and people sometimes have boards, perhaps with custom processors such as the NIOS, that aren't supported either. that's why it's worthwhile my writing a bit more about it, and what we do. From xaplos.com!macrod Fri May 7 16:06:13 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.66]) by doppio; Fri May 7 16:06:13 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040507150049.XZGT26162.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 11:00:49 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:00:43 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <4990bda7b8f1ac8ac7da1e1a94d323df@terzarima.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcQ0OtPWvrZZjRcLQKWnN3ywmJJ5yQACSi9g Message-Id: <20040507150049.XZGT26162.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > the problem arises when the 9 suite doesn't include support > for a particular architecture. it does handle most of the major > ones but not (for instance) SH-3/4, and people sometimes have > boards, perhaps with custom processors such as the NIOS, > that aren't supported either. > > that's why it's worthwhile my writing a bit more about it, and > what we do. I've been [very] interested in getting Inferno running on the Nios platform, so I'm looking forward to hearing more about "what we do". Thanks, -Mark From cs.indiana.edu!geobrown Fri May 7 16:50:26 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu ([129.79.254.191]) by doppio; Fri May 7 16:50:26 BST 2004 Received: from cs.indiana.edu (bl-csci-54207.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.246.133]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUCS_2.61) with ESMTP id i47Fj0HQ013483 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 10:45:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <409BAEF7.2030400@cs.indiana.edu> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:44:55 -0500 From: Geoffrey Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno References: <20040507150049.XZGT26162.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> In-Reply-To: <20040507150049.XZGT26162.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090200060601070907010606" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090200060601070907010606 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've got a port working (sort of) on Nios -- no ethernet yet. I had to do the following: -- create the appropriate mk files -- create the processor specific files for context switching, etc. This was around 300 lines of assembly and several hundred lines of C -- modify a bunch of the code in os/port to make it gcc compliant. The changes were mostly simple, but there were alot. This has evidently already been done for the emu/port code, but it didn't appear that I could simply treat nios as another emulator platform. I think I still have some bugs relating to my changes The hardest part was the last of these. I compiled all the code in "flat" mode -- register windows just don't seem to work too well when stack switching is involved. The Nios debug environment worked great for this since the JTAG interface works by freezing the world. I'm currently stalled. Altera are about to release a new simpler NIOS with a different instruction set. I'd rather wait for that. Finally, my changees are far from portable because of all the dinking required in os/port. Geoffrey Mark F Rodriguez wrote: >>the problem arises when the 9 suite doesn't include support >>for a particular architecture. it does handle most of the major >>ones but not (for instance) SH-3/4, and people sometimes have >>boards, perhaps with custom processors such as the NIOS, >>that aren't supported either. >> >>that's why it's worthwhile my writing a bit more about it, and >>what we do. >> >> > >I've been [very] interested in getting Inferno running on the Nios platform, >so I'm looking forward to hearing more about "what we do". > >Thanks, >-Mark > > > --------------090200060601070907010606 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've got a port working (sort of) on Nios -- no ethernet yet.   I had to do the following:

 -- create the appropriate mk files
 -- create the processor specific files for context switching, etc.  This was around 300 lines of assembly and several hundred lines of C
 -- modify a bunch of the code in os/port to make it gcc compliant.  The changes were mostly simple, but there
      were alot.   This has evidently already been done for the emu/port code, but it didn't appear that I could simply treat
      nios as another emulator platform.   I think I still have some bugs relating to my changes

The hardest part was the last of these. 

I compiled all the code in "flat" mode -- register windows just don't seem to work too well when stack switching is involved.

The Nios debug environment worked great for this since the JTAG interface works by freezing the world.

I'm currently stalled.  Altera are about to release a new simpler NIOS with a different instruction set.  I'd rather wait
for that.

Finally, my changees are far from portable because of all the dinking required in os/port. 

Geoffrey

Mark F Rodriguez wrote:
the problem arises when the 9 suite doesn't include support
for a particular architecture.  it does handle most of the major
ones but not (for instance) SH-3/4, and people sometimes have
boards, perhaps with custom processors such as the NIOS,
that aren't supported either.

that's why it's worthwhile my writing a bit more about it, and
what we do.
    

I've been [very] interested in getting Inferno running on the Nios platform,
so I'm looking forward to hearing more about "what we do".

Thanks,
-Mark
--------------090200060601070907010606-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri May 7 17:16:11 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri May 7 17:16:11 BST 2004 Message-ID: <8c16378f9af506cff59b5fccfc63083c@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 17:09:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: <409BAEF7.2030400@cs.indiana.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>I'm currently stalled. Altera are about to release a new simpler NIOS >>with a different instruction set. I'd rather wait >>for that. i hope they don't continue using a prefix instead of an address range to specify `no cache'. the `volatile' hack makes it hard (for instance) to apply ordinary library functions to uncached memory; if i understood the scheme correctly. it also, and they aren't the first to do so, so overloads volatile as to make it less effective (or even, in this case dangerous) for one of the things it must also be used (setjmp/longmp), again if i understood the implementation correctly. volatile is both too little and too much, pretty much as usual. From cs.indiana.edu!geobrown Fri May 7 18:47:44 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu ([129.79.254.191]) by doppio; Fri May 7 18:47:44 BST 2004 Received: from cs.indiana.edu (bl-csci-54207.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.246.133]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUCS_2.61) with ESMTP id i47HgIHQ022898 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 12:42:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <409BCA75.1040402@cs.indiana.edu> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 12:42:13 -0500 From: Geoffrey Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno References: <8c16378f9af506cff59b5fccfc63083c@terzarima.net> In-Reply-To: <8c16378f9af506cff59b5fccfc63083c@terzarima.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080102030401090109030800" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080102030401090109030800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't have any detailed knowledge, but my understanding from talking to Altera people is that this will be a much cleaner machine. I had a number of specific complaints I raised and all seemed to be resolved -- let's hope so because it's a nice concept if imperfectly realized Geoffrey Charles Forsyth wrote: >>>I'm currently stalled. Altera are about to release a new simpler NIOS >>>with a different instruction set. I'd rather wait >>>for that. >>> >>> > >i hope they don't continue using a prefix instead of an address >range to specify `no cache'. the `volatile' hack makes it hard (for instance) to >apply ordinary library functions to uncached memory; >if i understood the scheme correctly. it also, and they aren't the first to do so, >so overloads volatile as to make it less effective (or even, in this case dangerous) >for one of the things it must also be used (setjmp/longmp), >again if i understood the implementation correctly. > >volatile is both too little and too much, pretty much as usual. > > --------------080102030401090109030800 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't have any detailed knowledge, but my understanding from talking to Altera people is that
this will be a much cleaner machine.   I had a number of specific complaints I raised and all
seemed to be resolved -- let's hope so because it's a nice concept if imperfectly realized

Geoffrey

Charles Forsyth wrote:
I'm currently stalled.  Altera are about to release a new simpler NIOS 
with a different instruction set.  I'd rather wait
for that.
      

i hope they don't continue using a prefix instead of an address
range to specify `no cache'.  the `volatile' hack makes it hard (for instance) to
apply ordinary library functions to uncached memory;
if i understood the scheme correctly.  it also, and they aren't the first to do so,
so overloads volatile as to make it less effective (or even, in this case dangerous)
for one of the things it must also be used (setjmp/longmp),
again if i understood the implementation correctly.

volatile is both too little and too much, pretty much as usual.
--------------080102030401090109030800-- From infernopark.com!vdharani Sat May 8 00:41:15 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ensim.rackshack.net ([216.127.72.23]) by doppio; Sat May 8 00:41:15 BST 2004 Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i481vvZ31623 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 21:57:57 -0400 Received: from 192.11.226.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Fri, 7 May 2004 21:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38028.192.11.226.116.1083981477.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 21:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: acid From: To: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi, has anyone tried acid lately? i tried with 31Dec04 release and couldnt bring it up. here are the things i did: - i used plan 9 box as host and an x86 box as target. - i uncommented the devdbg line in mk and tried to build. - mk didnt pick devdbg.c automatically and compile it (why?). i tried to compile manually. - devdbg.c didnt compile well. i think I tried replacing Brk with Bkpt and BrkCond with BkptCond. also, i renamed log to log1 since there was some name clash. the build went thru. now, i had connected the two machines thru serial port with a null modem. the connection itself seemed to be fine and withstood lot of data transfer. - in the target, i did: echo r > '#b/dbgctl' echo b19200 > /dev/eia0ctl # I had to do it manually - in the host I did: % ROOT=/usr/vdharani/inf % SYSHOST=Plan9 % OBJTYPE=386 % ACIDLIB=$ROOT/lib/acid % acid -dp -R /dev/eia0 -l ipc.acid ipc - i noticed that it sends 10 bytes but doesnt receive 10 bytes in response or atleast receives but reports an error. the messages i am seeing are: remoteio: 1: proc rproto remote write fd 0x3 bytes: 10 0x38 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x01 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 remote read fd 0x3 bytes: 10 rtn: 0xa 0x31 0x72 0x65 0x73 0x65 0x74 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 :1:(error) can't access pid 1: remote err: reset - i tried ps(). it says: :2:(error) indir: get4: invalid map i have seen varied but similar error messages in other runs. now, does acme work or not? is anyone using it? does it work in strongarm port? or any other port? do you see anything wrong in the way i run acid? do i have to do anything else? i have used acid long back and after a lot of recollection, i came up this stage but i am not sure if i missed something. any help appreciated. thanks dharani From infernopark.com!vdharani Sat May 8 03:35:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ensim.rackshack.net ([216.127.72.23]) by doppio; Sat May 8 03:35:36 BST 2004 Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i484qIZ31890; Sat, 8 May 2004 00:52:18 -0400 Received: from 67.85.61.176 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Sat, 8 May 2004 00:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <32800.67.85.61.176.1083991938.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 00:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] acid From: To: In-Reply-To: <38028.192.11.226.116.1083981477.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> References: <38028.192.11.226.116.1083981477.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Cc: X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit forgot to tell this. i think when i run (or during boot, sorry i dont remember) echo r > '#b/dbgctl' it gives: i8259enable: irq 1 shared but not level intrenable: couldn't enable irq 1, tbdf 0xFFFFFFFF for bkpt.skip this might be some clue? thanks dharani > > has anyone tried acid lately? > > i tried with 31Dec04 release and couldnt bring it up. > > here are the things i did: > > - i used plan 9 box as host and an x86 box as target. > - i uncommented the devdbg line in mk and tried to build. > - mk didnt pick devdbg.c automatically and compile it (why?). i tried > to compile manually. > - devdbg.c didnt compile well. i think I tried replacing Brk with Bkpt > and BrkCond with BkptCond. also, i renamed log to log1 since there was > some name clash. the build went thru. > > now, i had connected the two machines thru serial port with a null > modem. the connection itself seemed to be fine and withstood lot of > data transfer. > > - in the target, i did: > > echo r > '#b/dbgctl' > echo b19200 > /dev/eia0ctl # I had to do it manually > > - in the host I did: > > % ROOT=/usr/vdharani/inf > % SYSHOST=Plan9 > % OBJTYPE=386 > % ACIDLIB=$ROOT/lib/acid > % acid -dp -R /dev/eia0 -l ipc.acid ipc > > - i noticed that it sends 10 bytes but doesnt receive 10 bytes in > response or atleast receives but reports an error. > > the messages i am seeing are: > > remoteio: 1: proc > rproto remote write fd 0x3 bytes: 10 > 0x38 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x01 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 > remote read fd 0x3 bytes: 10 rtn: 0xa > 0x31 0x72 0x65 0x73 0x65 0x74 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 > :1:(error) can't access pid 1: remote err: reset > > - i tried ps(). it says: > :2:(error) indir: get4: invalid map > > i have seen varied but similar error messages in other runs. > > now, does acme work or not? is anyone using it? does it work in > strongarm port? or any other port? > > do you see anything wrong in the way i run acid? do i have to do > anything else? > > i have used acid long back and after a lot of recollection, i came up > this stage but i am not sure if i missed something. > From proxima.alt.za!lucio Sat May 8 07:44:06 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from cackle.proxima.alt.za ([196.30.44.141]) by doppio; Sat May 8 07:44:06 BST 2004 Received: from huddle.proxima.alt.za (prawn.iba.co.za [192.168.30.22]) by cackle.proxima.alt.za (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i486ca04023768 for ; Sat, 8 May 2004 08:38:38 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno Reply-to: lucio@proxima.alt.za Organization: Proxima Research & Development X-Mailer: Plan 9 ACME/Mail Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 08:38:30 +0200 From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <4990bda7b8f1ac8ac7da1e1a94d323df@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > that's why it's worthwhile my writing a bit more about it, and > what we do. A good point, indeed. There GCC is a definite win, specially with its cross-platform portability. Still, it strikes me that you then have only one option, really: I doubt that you'll find any other compiler suite that fulfils the conditions you wish it to. I'll continue this discussion in private mail. ++L From forsyth Sat May 8 08:29:01 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 08:29:01 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] acid In-Reply-To: <32800.67.85.61.176.1083991938.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>i8259enable: irq 1 shared but not level >>intrenable: couldn't enable irq 1, tbdf 0xFFFFFFFF for bkpt.skip that does look a little odd. i don't recognise the latter. i'll see what i can find here. From terzarima.net!forsyth Sat May 8 09:45:31 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sat May 8 09:45:31 BST 2004 Message-ID: <82ea73e86cd702d20b8cc5212c7d7ac5@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] acid From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 09:39:16 +0100 In-Reply-To: <38028.192.11.226.116.1083981477.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i now know what the immediate problem is: this version of acid supports two remote debugging protocols and you're not starting the one the kernel expects. i'll interact with you directly to help sort it out. From parvat.com!martin_ml Mon May 10 00:47:06 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.184]) by doppio; Mon May 10 00:47:06 BST 2004 Received: from [212.227.126.209] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BMqBB-0000Zv-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Sun, 09 May 2004 17:25:25 +0200 Received: from [220.226.26.142] (helo=vayu) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BMqB8-0001SN-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Sun, 09 May 2004 17:25:24 +0200 Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 20:55:35 +0530 From: Martin C. Atkins To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno Message-Id: <20040509205535.28104149.martin_ml@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: <9eb3092abd7580727ab2b766ccc216d1@terzarima.net> References: <409B78C4.7090106@ti.com> <9eb3092abd7580727ab2b766ccc216d1@terzarima.net> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:36ac05c78f2d71fdd8502b36d47d3e88 On Fri, 7 May 2004 13:47:18 +0100 Charles Forsyth wrote: >.. > how many (and which) complete C compilers are generally available, with source, for a plausible > range of targets? (ignore cross-compilation for now.) > gcc is one, of course, but there are others such as lcc. i don't require that > they support everything under the sun. Tendra is sometimes quoted as being the "open source competitor" to gcc, I have no idea if this is justified, or not. In fact, I know little about it, despite having been present at it's birth, as it were. However, it was, at least originally, intended to be available for a range of targets - that was the whole point (it was the winner of the OSF's ANDF RFP)! On the topic of "Using GNU compilers to build Inferno", I also thought it should be pointed out, just for the record, that this is not so unusual, indeed it is the the default, when building hosted Inferno on Linux, etc! :-) Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@parvat.com Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited http://www.parvat.com From ti.com!cbarrera Tue May 11 13:46:59 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from go4.ext.ti.com ([192.91.75.132]) by doppio; Tue May 11 13:46:59 BST 2004 Received: from dmhp30.itg.ti.com ([134.183.41.209]) by go4.ext.ti.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4A2Arp4002408 for ; Sun, 9 May 2004 21:10:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ti.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dmhp30.itg.ti.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4A2ApCk013034 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 11:10:52 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <409EE541.3040906@ti.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:13:21 +0900 From: Christopher Barrera User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno References: <409B78C4.7090106@ti.com> <9eb3092abd7580727ab2b766ccc216d1@terzarima.net> <20040509205535.28104149.martin_ml@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: <20040509205535.28104149.martin_ml@parvat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Martin C. Atkins wrote: > On the topic of "Using GNU compilers to build Inferno", I also > >thought it should be pointed out, just for the record, that this is >not so unusual, indeed it is the the default, when building hosted >Inferno on Linux, etc! :-) > > > Thats a good point. My target is a non-x86 platform where I will begin by building a hosted inferno and transition it to a native. This platform already has a Linux for it. In fact, a great many embedded platforms already have embedded linux ports, as well as GCC with support for many of their myriad cpu and architecture versions. I am not trying to promote GCC or FSF software, I am not that kind of "free software advocate" as often seen, but it seems the Plan9 compilers are showing their age and my needs may be better satisfied with another compiler, which I am free to do for myself, but it seemed to be something worth discussing for the Inferno community in general as well. Chris Barrera From anothy.9srv.net!inferno Tue May 11 14:57:48 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Tue May 11 14:57:48 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.180] ([193.195.87.250]) by 9srv.net; Tue May 11 09:52:21 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <409EE541.3040906@ti.com> References: <409B78C4.7090106@ti.com> <9eb3092abd7580727ab2b766ccc216d1@terzarima.net> <20040509205535.28104149.martin_ml@parvat.com> <409EE541.3040906@ti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed Message-Id: <6ACE2B24-A352-11D8-BD36-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:52:18 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) On May 10, 2004, at 03:13, Christopher Barrera wrote: > In fact, a great many embedded platforms already have embedded linux > ports, as > well as GCC with support for many of their myriad cpu and architecture > versions. i have some vague memory of pip having some project putting Inferno's emu on top of a (possibly embedded) minimal linux distribution for the purpose of getting linux's driver support. i don't remember the details. it's an interesting idea, but the added overhead (compared to a real native inferno system) would be significant, particularly on small devices. it might be more compelling of emu's host-OS integration was better, although in this context i don't have a clear vision of what "better" would be. > ...it seems the Plan9 compilers are showing their age... i don't think this is a fair statement. the plan 9 compiler suite is still substantially faster than the gnu tools, dramatically simpler, and produces reasonable (although not as fast, no) code. they don't support as many platforms, but they certainly support more than most C compilers, and the difference is not about them being older, but rather just not having as much developer time poured into them. brucee's recent work on them is an encouraging sign that there's still quite a bit of life left in them. > and my needs may be better satisfied with another compiler... well, that's another question entirely. i'm personally a fan of compiler-independence where it's possible. but given the significant variance allowed implementors, it does require non-trivial amounts of work for large systems. some guy from jersey. $B%"(B From forsyth Tue May 11 15:46:09 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:46:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: <409EE541.3040906@ti.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>it seems the Plan9 compilers are showing their age that confused me a bit, because usually that's said about something that's getting a bit old, but in many ways they are often more recent than gcc, and integrate compilation and linking better. certainly the powerpc one is newer, because i did that one myself, as is most of the arm (which was split amongst three people, including two of us), and the thumb compiler which is very recent. From ece.cmu.edu!pstanley Tue May 11 16:46:10 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Tue May 11 16:46:10 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.77.244] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.77.244]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BB5E81; Tue, 11 May 2004 11:40:39 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <6ACE2B24-A352-11D8-BD36-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> References: <409B78C4.7090106@ti.com> <9eb3092abd7580727ab2b766ccc216d1@terzarima.net> <20040509205535.28104149.martin_ml@parvat.com> <409EE541.3040906@ti.com> <6ACE2B24-A352-11D8-BD36-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <8E425DFF-A361-11D8-9E13-000A95C53D8A@ece.cmu.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: phillip stanley-marbell Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:40:40 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Hello, > have some vague memory of pip having some project putting > Inferno's emu on top of a (possibly embedded) minimal linux Oh no, such forgotten memories from 6 years ago! It even had a name : "". It was an attempt to bundle emu with as little of a linux kernel + necessary cruft, for the reasons of driver support. I never polished it up because there was no interest, and I had more interesting things to spend my time on. Oh, and also there was the $300,000 cost of a license to do anything interesting with Inferno. My pocket money at the time didn't cover such expenditures. I don't think the argument of "too much overhead" is too strong though. For the type of systems in which you would be putting Inferno on (as opposed to a minimal runtime executive + Styx), you can easily fit a Linux kernel (I am neither a user, proponent nor advocate of Linux, please spare me any flames). cheers, phillip Op 11-mei-04 om 9:52 heeft Anthony Sorace het volgende geschreven: > On May 10, 2004, at 03:13, Christopher Barrera wrote: > >> In fact, a great many embedded platforms already have embedded linux >> ports, as >> well as GCC with support for many of their myriad cpu and >> architecture versions. > > i have some vague memory of pip having some project putting Inferno's > emu on top of a (possibly embedded) minimal linux distribution for the > purpose of getting linux's driver support. i don't remember the > details. it's an interesting idea, but the added overhead (compared to > a real native inferno system) would be significant, particularly on > small devices. it might be more compelling of emu's host-OS > integration was better, although in this context i don't have a clear > vision of what "better" would be. From forsyth Tue May 11 16:52:54 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:52:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: <8E425DFF-A361-11D8-9E13-000A95C53D8A@ece.cmu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>For the type of systems in which you would be putting Inferno on >>(as opposed to a minimal runtime executive + Styx), you can easily >>fit a Linux kernel (I am neither a user, proponent nor advocate of >>Linux, >>please spare me any flames). not a flame, just that to my certain knowledge, a reasonably full Inferno can fit easily in spaces that Linux cannot fit (and run effectively), even with the `Busybox' hack -- shades of Sunwindows. adding Java into the mix leads to crushing defeat! the Inferno size includes a host of things for Dis/Limbo run-time support that are outside the Linux kernel and must live somewhere. i always have heaps of RAM and FLASH left when i turf Linux off a device! From ece.cmu.edu!pstanley Tue May 11 17:08:18 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Tue May 11 17:08:18 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.77.244] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.77.244]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1B9286; Tue, 11 May 2004 12:02:51 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <409EE541.3040906@ti.com> References: <409B78C4.7090106@ti.com> <9eb3092abd7580727ab2b766ccc216d1@terzarima.net> <20040509205535.28104149.martin_ml@parvat.com> <409EE541.3040906@ti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: phillip stanley-marbell Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:02:52 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Hello, I think a bottom line argument is that you should be able to use whatever compiler you so choose, and not be tied to one specific one. People building commercial systems are used to using commercial compilers (e.g. Metrowerks or variants of gcc), not to say that those are better than Ken's compilers, but that is the reality. Sometimes, the compilation tools for a given processor are non-trivial (e.g., TI's C6000 family of DSPs). Porting Ken's compilers to new platforms is not difficult (the C compiler can be done in a week or so, but the loader is more involved), but its like, you go to a hardware store to buy a lawn mower, and they hand you sheet metal, a seedling of a rubber tree, a blowtorch and gasoline, and they tell you "roll you own". cheers, phillip Op 9-mei-04 om 22:13 heeft Christopher Barrera het volgende geschreven: > Martin C. Atkins wrote: > >> On the topic of "Using GNU compilers to build Inferno", I also >> >> thought it should be pointed out, just for the record, that this is >> not so unusual, indeed it is the the default, when building hosted >> Inferno on Linux, etc! :-) >> >> > > Thats a good point. My target is a non-x86 platform where I will begin > by building > a hosted inferno and transition it to a native. This platform already > has a Linux for it. From forsyth Tue May 11 17:15:59 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:15:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oh dear! so in exchange for our making the stuff available free of charge, instead of charging $300,000 for it as Lucent did, at no small cost to ourselves, you're now insisting that we make our own lives more difficult, and nobble portable functionality in the native kernel (i'll explain that last bit later, but it's true)! life is so cruel. From anothy.9srv.net!inferno Tue May 11 17:41:22 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Tue May 11 17:41:22 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.180] ([193.195.87.250]) by 9srv.net; Tue May 11 12:35:55 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed Message-Id: <457B3327-A369-11D8-9BEA-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:35:54 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) > so in exchange for our making the stuff available free of charge, > instead of charging $300,000 for it as Lucent did... well, lucent also didn't exactly sell very many copies at that price. their initial asking price for a full source license was even higher - $1M! They sold approximately zero of those. they sold one or two at the "new low price" of $300k, but there's good reason the BU imploded pretty much immediately when the 3 year initial funding ran out. what i think VN really gets "in exchange for" not asking $300k is that people don't laugh at you and write you off, as they did for the BU. > ...you're now insisting that we make our own lives more difficult, > and nobble portable functionality in the native kernel... well, nobody's *insisting* anything, i don't think. lots of people don't care about the fact that they can't use their existing toolchain, but some do. i know there was a frequent topic of discussion in the BU about "third party tools". as i understood it, nobody really cared about the comparative merits of gcc (or whatever) vs. ken's compilers, but wanted to be able to use their existing *debugging* tools. i doubt it's anything even close to a make-or-break issue for inferno, but it does raise the barrier to entry some. all that being said, i have no problem believing that there are totally sound reasons for not targeting gcc and friends. some guy from jersey. $B%"(B From forsyth Tue May 11 17:53:26 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:53:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: <457B3327-A369-11D8-9BEA-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>well, nobody's *insisting* anything, i don't think. lots of people not really, i understand, and despite my note i can see why it's important to some people; i was really just amused by some contrast i saw in pip's note! From ece.cmu.edu!pstanley Tue May 11 17:57:23 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Tue May 11 17:57:23 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.77.244] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.77.244]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D63B386; Tue, 11 May 2004 12:51:56 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <54ae82ed06fe8fa00e688b24438ee4ec@vitanuova.com> References: <54ae82ed06fe8fa00e688b24438ee4ec@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <83A6E3E1-A36B-11D8-9E13-000A95C53D8A@ece.cmu.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: phillip stanley-marbell Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:51:57 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) ??? I was just stating a point of view about being able to compile the kernel C sources with generic compilers. Like others on this list, I've taken the time to get stuff in os/port to compile with non-Ken compilers, but then find myself maintaining multiple source trees, and having to merge in changes when there is a new inferno release (for example I've only merged a few things into my local copy of 4e). I much appreciated the price from 300k -> 0.1K, and even more so the drop form 0.1K -> 0. Too bad that voicing these opinions make your lives more difficult (not sure if you're being sarcastic). hugs and kisses, phillip Op 11-mei-04 om 12:15 heeft C H Forsyth het volgende geschreven: > oh dear! > > so in exchange for our making the stuff available free of charge, > instead of charging $300,000 for it as Lucent did, at no small cost to > ourselves, > you're now insisting that we make our own lives more difficult, and > nobble > portable functionality in the native kernel (i'll explain that last > bit later, but it's true)! > > life is so cruel. From gmail.com!russcox Tue May 11 18:13:24 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.248]) by doppio; Tue May 11 18:13:24 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x17so4596cwb for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 10:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.64 with SMTP id u64mr23398cwc; Tue, 11 May 2004 09:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:07:28 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: on-the-fly compilation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone done any dynamic generation of Dis modules as a way to get portable on-the-fly-compiled code? I was thinking that it would be excellent for something like pico if the latency can be made low enough. Russ From forsyth Tue May 11 18:18:26 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] on-the-fly compilation From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 18:18:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit in a way, that is one of the implementations of Java. pico had also occurred to me as a possibly interesting application (but i didn't do it) From ece.cmu.edu!pstanley Tue May 11 18:31:54 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Tue May 11 18:31:54 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.77.244] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.77.244]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C9686; Tue, 11 May 2004 13:26:28 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <457B3327-A369-11D8-9BEA-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> References: <457B3327-A369-11D8-9BEA-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <55E7A988-A370-11D8-9E13-000A95C53D8A@ece.cmu.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: phillip stanley-marbell Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:26:28 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Hello, Good point. While "I Love Acid" (not the song by Luke Vibert), sometimes the debugging tools supplied with DSPs really do go a long way. A case in point is the VisualDSP tools from Analog devices. I can instantly see what the histogram of CPU usage in various functions in my code is, in real-time, while the code is running on the target. You can have the tool decode a region of memory and interpret it as an image or a video frame in the format of your choosing. I can immediately see whether the video frames are being correctly DMA'd into RAM at the address I want them. Another case is the TI TMS320C6XXX. The amount of instruction scheduling the compiler does for the 8-wide VLIW is non-trivial. In this case, the architecture _depends_ on the compiler to do a good job. Simply generating correct code will put you very very very far away from the performance of code generated by TI's Code Composer Studio tools. But all of the above statements are irrelevant, because, from the COMPCON '97 Inferno paper: "Inferno is, to the extent possible, written in standard C..." :-) cheers, phillip Op 11-mei-04 om 12:35 heeft Anthony Sorace het volgende geschreven: > as i understood it, nobody really cared about the comparative merits of > gcc (or whatever) vs. ken's compilers, but wanted to be able to use > their > existing *debugging* tools. i doubt it's anything even close to a > make-or-break issue for inferno, but it does raise the barrier to > entry some. From rog Tue May 11 18:34:24 BST 2004 remote from presto To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] on-the-fly compilation Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 18:34:23 +0100 From: rog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-hubfprtcyxzfyjdryvugnkuwzu" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-hubfprtcyxzfyjdryvugnkuwzu Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for applications that have long-lived code segments (or a small set of easily cached segments), the limbo compiler is an easy way to get this. and at least this way you don't run the risk of killing the whole VM by writing invalid Dis. alternatively, one could extend dis(2) to support generation of modules as well as their interpretation (perhaps one could choose an interface that makes it difficult to generate code that references invalid addresses, the main cause of dodgy dis, as far as i'm aware). --upas-hubfprtcyxzfyjdryvugnkuwzu Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.248]) by doppio; Tue May 11 18:13:24 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x17so4596cwb for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 10:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.64 with SMTP id u64mr23398cwc; Tue, 11 May 2004 09:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:07:28 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [inferno-list] on-the-fly compilation Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Has anyone done any dynamic generation of Dis modules as a way to get portable on-the-fly-compiled code? I was thinking that it would be excellent for something like pico if the latency can be made low enough. Russ --upas-hubfprtcyxzfyjdryvugnkuwzu-- From gmail.com!russcox Tue May 11 19:19:25 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.242]) by doppio; Tue May 11 19:19:25 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so5351cwb for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 11:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.51 with SMTP id u51mr26360cwc; Tue, 11 May 2004 10:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:47:14 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] on-the-fly compilation In-Reply-To: <7a790b3d7f6a2ed619b6a15c1ae1216e@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <7a790b3d7f6a2ed619b6a15c1ae1216e@vitanuova.com> > for applications that have long-lived code segments (or a small set of > easily cached segments), the limbo compiler is an easy way to get > this. is the compiler fast enough to do this? i doubt it. From rog Tue May 11 19:40:02 BST 2004 remote from presto To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] on-the-fly compilation Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 19:40:02 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > is the compiler fast enough to do this? i doubt it. it depends on compile-time to run-time ratio, rather than some absolute speed. if i'm going to run a module for an hour, then a 30s compile-time is neither here nor there, especially if it would have taken 4 hours otherwise... for small modules, with JIT on (naturally) and the limbo module cached, the limbo compiler can be reasonably quick a quick check on a small module gave me 0.03s total time on my 1GHz thinkpad (i'm not counting the time to actually load the generated code here). this could be sufficient for many possible applications (even including pico, perhaps...) the downside is the amount of memory the limbo compiler takes, which would probably preclude its use on small platforms, but it's still potentially useful. From cs.indiana.edu!geobrown Wed May 12 14:06:08 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu ([129.79.254.191]) by doppio; Wed May 12 14:06:08 BST 2004 Received: from cs.indiana.edu (bl-csci-54207.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.246.133]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUCS_2.61) with ESMTP id i4CD0eVw001816 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 08:00:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40A21FF3.1050502@cs.indiana.edu> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:00:35 -0500 From: Geoffrey Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Using GNU compilers to build Inferno References: <409B78C4.7090106@ti.com> <9eb3092abd7580727ab2b766ccc216d1@terzarima.net> <20040509205535.28104149.martin_ml@parvat.com> <409EE541.3040906@ti.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just to add one thing to that thought. The debugging environment is also important for bringing up a kernal on new hardware. Most embedded processors support debugging through a proprietary JTAG interface (I know JTAG is a standard, but you try to pry loose the specification for the debugger interface -- I have tried and failed). This means you are tied to whatever tools are available to support that interface, which ultimately translates into whatever binary executable format is required. Sure, "real programmers" don't need no stinking debuggers, but I do. Geoffrey phillip stanley-marbell wrote: > Hello, > > I think a bottom line argument is that you should be able to use > whatever compiler you so choose, and not be tied to one specific > one. People building commercial systems are used to using > commercial compilers (e.g. Metrowerks or variants of gcc), not to > say that those are better than Ken's compilers, but that is the reality. > > Sometimes, the compilation tools for a given processor are non-trivial > (e.g., TI's C6000 family of DSPs). Porting Ken's compilers to > new platforms is not difficult (the C compiler can be done in a > week or so, but the loader is more involved), but its like, you > go to a hardware store to buy a lawn mower, and they hand you > sheet metal, a seedling of a rubber tree, a blowtorch and gasoline, > and they tell you "roll you own". > > > cheers, > phillip > > > > > Op 9-mei-04 om 22:13 heeft Christopher Barrera het volgende geschreven: > >> Martin C. Atkins wrote: >> >>> On the topic of "Using GNU compilers to build Inferno", I also >>> >>> thought it should be pointed out, just for the record, that this is >>> not so unusual, indeed it is the the default, when building hosted >>> Inferno on Linux, etc! :-) >>> >>> >> >> Thats a good point. My target is a non-x86 platform where I will >> begin by building >> a hosted inferno and transition it to a native. This platform already >> has a Linux for it. > From suspicious.org!suspect Wed May 12 22:51:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Wed May 12 22:51:52 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.77.244] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.77.244]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76D198; Wed, 12 May 2004 17:46:25 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org Subject: interesting hardware Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:46:27 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) possibly of interest: http://www.pegasosppc.com/tech_specs.php cheers, From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed May 12 23:14:42 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed May 12 23:14:42 BST 2004 Message-ID: <918fc9957da77ef94d8f0e33dd5bdd07@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] interesting hardware From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 23:12:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ebbxvjogvtangesorpjzfkmybq" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ebbxvjogvtangesorpjzfkmybq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes, i've got some of those ... --upas-ebbxvjogvtangesorpjzfkmybq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Wed May 12 22:50:34 BST 2004 Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Wed May 12 22:51:52 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.77.244] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.77.244]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76D198; Wed, 12 May 2004 17:46:25 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:46:27 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Subject: [inferno-list] interesting hardware Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk possibly of interest: http://www.pegasosppc.com/tech_specs.php cheers, --upas-ebbxvjogvtangesorpjzfkmybq-- From stalphonsos.com!six Thu May 13 02:45:49 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from agrun.stalphonsos.com ([63.163.82.54]) by doppio; Thu May 13 02:45:49 BST 2004 Received: (qmail 8631 invoked by uid 1001); 13 May 2004 01:40:26 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:40:02 -0400 From: Chad Dougherty To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [Inferno] [inferno-list] interesting hardware Message-ID: <20040513014024.GD6486@stalphonsos.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 05:46:27PM -0400, suspect@suspicious.org wrote: > possibly of interest: > > http://www.pegasosppc.com/tech_specs.php > To quote obiwan kenobi, "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villany. We must be cautious." All of the pegasos code has been removed from OpenBSD since. -Chad From gmail.com!russcox Thu May 13 03:03:39 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.252]) by doppio; Thu May 13 03:03:39 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u22so16423cwc for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 18:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.35 with SMTP id u35mr57910cwc; Wed, 12 May 2004 18:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:58:06 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [Inferno] [inferno-list] interesting hardware In-Reply-To: <20040513014024.GD6486@stalphonsos.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20040513014024.GD6486@stalphonsos.com> > Links to http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-misc&m=108028112117093&w=2 I'm glad I ignored them when they contacted 9trouble. From suspicious.org!suspect Thu May 13 04:28:23 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mail1.speakeasy.net ([216.254.0.201]) by doppio; Thu May 13 04:28:23 BST 2004 Received: (qmail 32514 invoked from network); 13 May 2004 03:16:15 -0000 Received: from dsl093-060-187.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO [192.168.1.3]) ([66.93.60.187]) (envelope-sender ) by mail1.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 13 May 2004 03:16:15 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <20040513014024.GD6486@stalphonsos.com> References: <20040513014024.GD6486@stalphonsos.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org BadHeader: suspect@suspicious.org> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] interesting hardware Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 23:15:36 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) huh, interesting, i had no idea. Really glad i mentioned it then 'cos i'd probably have fallen for it too. Charles, you have a few, or just being sarcastic ? cheers, > On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 05:46:27PM -0400, suspect@suspicious.org wrote: >> possibly of interest: >> >> http://www.pegasosppc.com/tech_specs.php >> > > To quote obiwan kenobi, "You will never find a more wretched hive > of scum and villany. We must be cautious." > > > > All of the pegasos code has been removed from OpenBSD since. > > -Chad From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu May 13 09:49:43 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu May 13 09:49:43 BST 2004 Message-ID: <3c32b24a58ecd38b029db3c5e970bc94@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] interesting hardware From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:47:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Charles, you have a few, or just being sarcastic ? they are for use at home. i went for the G3 (IBM 750) version because they consume only 5w or so, and IBM seems to test its processors properly, the errata are nearly always obscure, and the data sheets are just right for me. the G4 was 20w i think. i wanted a fanless processor with at least a few registers. their boards are fussy about memory types for some reason (ie, i had to change to a faster module than specified). it seems so odd these days to switch on something supposedly fairly fast and not hear a whisper. ``is it on??? oh yes, so it is.'' from the links posted the company sounds a bit rocky, but then again, i bought a BeBox with its ups and downs. it's a shame though, because i was hoping to buy some more. because it's essentially for hobby use and i've been too busy at work (even when i email from my home address) i haven't really done much for the port, which is one reason i hadn't mentioned it before. there is no doubt that it's far quicker to port using data sheets, but i don't mind wading through Linux filth to guess how the hardware works. well, i suppose i do mind, but i do it anyhow. the drivers aren't so much of the problem these days. mind you, the interface between `portable' and low-level RTC interfaces on one platform uses a bit-pattern corresponding to the values in x86 RTC registers. (i'm sure i didn't make that up.) i also always enjoy the bits where a driver writer with a bug blames the hardware. it does happen, as with the MPC823 before the B version (i think it was), or the Moto version of the 603e and the synchronising instructions (whoops!). still, one of those ``it's the hardware's fault'' comments was in a driver by MegaLinuxCorp with other comments along the lines of ``look Mum! i'm writing my first XYZ driver!''. it was fairly obvious what he'd misunderstood. i had the docs for that chip. an early example of a similar thing was in a old BSD command that blamed the kernel for overwriting memory (which was therefore protected by declaring some char arrays before and after the variable to absorb the damage), but he'd overlooked the bcopy in his own code that was actually causing it... anyhow, for use as platform documentation, with Linux it's things closer to the kernel proper that are troublesome, particularly initialisation, mmu, bus, config options. just a rats' nest of ifdefs-inlines-asms-cuteness; volatile, that's the word. i've no idea how anyone ports that thing in finite time. THEN there are these BOOTSTRAPS. hell's teeth. why can't people know when to stop writing code? i look at the PCI registers. the IDs are zero. what's wrong with my addressing map? .... much frustration ... much wading through tiny twisty files. oh i see. PPCBOOT or uBOOT finds them on reset with ``I am an IBM PCI bridge'' IDs in them and SETS THEM TO ZERO because someome didn't set the defines/ifdefs sensibly. i mention that on-topic because part of the problem with pegasos seems to be the OpenFirmware by several reports. From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu May 13 10:13:53 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu May 13 10:13:53 BST 2004 Message-ID: <9587660c00aed00b4aedaf936b07d9fa@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [Inferno] [inferno-list] interesting hardware From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:11:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040513014024.GD6486@stalphonsos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i might as well add that i've got a Gumstix `waysmall'. all of these will go into the tree once they are done, of course, although it sounds as though the Pegasos port might not be all that useful in the end. perhaps i'll do the gumstix first. From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu May 13 10:22:06 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu May 13 10:22:06 BST 2004 Message-ID: <656d854bd30b9e6464576663c29cede2@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] interesting hardware From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:19:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: <918fc9957da77ef94d8f0e33dd5bdd07@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit one of the practical problems in using linux as hardware documentation is trying to find the right copy of the source for that platform. it often isn't easy. i have lots of them now for various things. good thing i store them in venti. From suspicious.org!suspect Thu May 13 14:33:12 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mail3.speakeasy.net ([216.254.0.203]) by doppio; Thu May 13 14:33:12 BST 2004 Received: (qmail 6641 invoked from network); 13 May 2004 13:21:04 -0000 Received: from dsl093-060-187.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO [192.168.1.3]) ([66.93.60.187]) (envelope-sender ) by mail3.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 13 May 2004 13:21:04 -0000 In-Reply-To: <3c32b24a58ecd38b029db3c5e970bc94@terzarima.net> References: <3c32b24a58ecd38b029db3c5e970bc94@terzarima.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <41E4630E-A4E0-11D8-A949-000393477E42@suspicious.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org BadHeader: suspect@suspicious.org> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] interesting hardware Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:20:09 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Speaking of buggy hardware. You should see the errata list for rev 0.1 of Analog Devices' BF-533. A long list ranging from DMAs on its SPORT getting word reversed, to incorrect performance counters and "Infinite Core Stalls". The newer revisions of the silicon fixed most of these, but even the original ver 0.1 is still fun to deal with --- good documentation and compilation tools. cheers, Forsyth wrote: > i also always enjoy the bits where a driver writer > with a bug blames the hardware. it does happen, > as with the MPC823 before the B version (i think it was), > or the Moto version of the 603e and the synchronising instructions > (whoops!). still, one of those ``it's the hardware's fault'' From cli.di.unipi.it!bernardp Sat May 15 23:47:09 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from smtp1.libero.it ([193.70.192.51]) by doppio; Sat May 15 23:47:09 BST 2004 Received: from c1p4e3 (62.98.220.112) by smtp1.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 40489115011C927C for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Sun, 16 May 2004 00:39:22 +0200 Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 00:36:45 +0200 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] acid References: <38028.192.11.226.116.1083981477.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> From: Pierpaolo BERNARDI Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <38028.192.11.226.116.1083981477.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 Hello, this refers to ver. 3. Please ignore if this is fixed in ver 4. The string(2) man page says: Toint returns as an integer the value represented by the string s. The string is scanned up to the first character inconsistent with base. The first inconsistent character marks the beginning of the returned string. Leading white-space characters are ignored. The base can be any integer in the range 0 to 36, inclusive. and the code apparently agrees: if(base < 0 || base > 36) return (0, s); However, bases 0 and 1 do not make any sense (and obviously do not work). I think the man page should say 2 <= base <= 36. and the check changed accordingly. Cheers P. From cli.di.unipi.it!bernardp Sun May 16 00:40:23 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from smtp3.libero.it ([193.70.192.127]) by doppio; Sun May 16 00:40:23 BST 2004 Received: from c1p4e3 (62.98.220.112) by smtp3.libero.it (7.0.027-DD01) id 404F148A01081925 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Sun, 16 May 2004 01:34:56 +0200 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Toint From: Pierpaolo BERNARDI Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 01:32:36 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera7.23/Win32 M2 build 3227 Sorry for my previous message with the wrong subject line. P. From 126.com!feichuang_8 Sun May 16 17:57:59 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 221.196.17.128 ([221.196.17.128]) by doppio; Sun May 16 17:57:59 BST 2004 From: feichuang_8@126.com Subject: bring a professional look to your projects To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 00:55:40 +0800 X-Priority: 3 X-Library: Indy 9.00.10 We make Xp icons for commercinal manufacturers. If you are a software developer, webmaster or user interface designer looking for high quality icons and glyphs for your software projects. You have come to the right place. Here you can browse and buy high quality royalty-free icon. Our icons collections will bring a professional look to your projects while saveing your time and money. Browse icons collection URL: http://www.guiicons.com Best Greeting The guiicons.com team From double.co.nz!chris.double Mon May 17 05:26:53 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from out2.smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.26]) by doppio; Mon May 17 05:26:53 BST 2004 Received: from server2.messagingengine.com (server2.internal [10.202.2.133]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C51B8D3F4 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 00:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by server2.messagingengine.com (Postfix, from userid 99) id C6055834D8; Mon, 17 May 2004 00:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME::Lite 1.3 (F2.71; T1.001; A1.51; B2.12; Q2.03) From: "Chris Double" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:21:24 +1200 X-Sasl-Enc: 9XXvUAQ3GExHVY79HAOeqw 1084767684 Message-Id: <1084767684.13452.196581874@webmail.messagingengine.com> Subject: Mailing list archives? Are there any achives of this mailing list? To save me asking any questions that have already been asked and answered... Chris. -- Chris Double chris.double@double.co.nz From forsyth Mon May 17 08:55:06 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 08:55:06 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Toint In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>this refers to ver. 3. Please ignore if this is >>fixed in ver 4. yes, both manual page and string.b were updated some time ago. base 0 now causes it to interpret leading 2r 3r 8r 16r etc as setting the base for the number. From minnie.tuhs.org!wkt Mon May 17 13:53:32 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from minnie.tuhs.org ([131.244.9.101]) by doppio; Mon May 17 13:53:32 BST 2004 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1C4D81E0B; Mon, 17 May 2004 22:48:02 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:48:01 +1000 From: Warren Toomey To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Problems installing Inferno on FreeBSD Message-ID: <20040517124801.GA4825@minnie.tuhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Hi, I've just downloaded the Inferno v4 install CD, but I'm having troubles installing on FreeBSD 4.x. Specifically, emu dies with a segmentation fault during the install: % uname -a FreeBSD neddie.local.net 4.8-STABLE FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE #0 ... % gdb /cdrom/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu (gdb) run -c1 -G -r/cdrom /dis/install/install.dis -r Inferno -p FreeBSD Starting program: /cdrom/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu -c1 -G -r/cdrom /dis/install/install.dis -r Inferno -p FreeBSD Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. 0x0 in ?? () (gdb) where #0 0x0 in ?? () #1 0x70 in ?? () #2 0x804b3ce in kproc (name=0x811138f "kbd", func=0x805f3f4 , arg=0x0, flags=0) at os.c:218 #3 0x805f5f3 in consattach (spec=0x81c139e "") at ../port/devcons.c:178 #4 0x8074db9 in namec (aname=0x8112b47 "#c/cons", amode=3, omode=0, perm=0) at ../port/chan.c:1040 #5 0x80770f9 in kopen (path=0x8112b47 "#c/cons", mode=0) at ../port/sysfile.c:529 #6 0x806d0de in emuinit (imod=0x81128a0) at ../port/main.c:286 #7 0x804ae2c in executeonnewstack () #8 0x804b671 in libinit (imod=0x81128a0 "/dis/emuinit.dis") at os.c:349 #9 0x806cf5f in main (argc=9, argv=0xbfbff588) at ../port/main.c:257 #10 0x804ad76 in _start () If this is a known problem covered by a FAQ etc., please let me know. If there are archives of the inferno mailing list, please let me know too! Is there a way of building the FreeBSD emu, or extracting the source so that I can narrow down the cause of the segmentation fault? Many thanks in advance for any help, Warren Toomey P.S I think I've extracted FreeBSD/os.c out of install/src/1080737398, but I suspect a mismatch between the FreeBSD/386/bin/emu and the FreeBSD/os.c on the CD, as line 218 is this: 210 lock(&procs.l); 211 if(procs.tail != nil) { 212 p->prev = procs.tail; 213 procs.tail->next = p; 214 } 215 else { 216 procs.head = p; 217 p->prev = nil; 218 } <=============== 219 procs.tail = p; From cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mirtchov Mon May 17 14:53:30 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ensc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.2.4]) by doppio; Mon May 17 14:53:30 BST 2004 Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.5.9]) by ensc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HDi8Lr006779 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 07:45:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (fbsd [136.159.7.68]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4HDi4pi015012 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 07:44:04 -0600 Received: from fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i4HDi1vF003589 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 07:44:01 -0600 Received: from localhost (mirtchov@localhost) by fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id i4HDi1k6003585 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 07:44:01 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: fbsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca: mirtchov owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:44:01 -0600 (MDT) From: andrey mirtchovski To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: slashdot Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Spam-IPinDNS-NoPat: Yes so, did you guys get slashdotted? http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/16/2334220&mode=thread&tid=130&tid=185&tid=190 i see anothy is the only one who held the fort by answering messages in the discussion board, so i decided to let everyone know :) From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon May 17 15:03:23 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon May 17 15:03:23 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Problems installing Inferno on FreeBSD From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 14:59:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040517124801.GA4825@minnie.tuhs.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the FreeBSD executable was built on 4.8-RELEASE. i've checked that it is the right source for that executable (by recompilation and cmp). i don't know why gdb gets the wrong line number in kproc. it's almost certainly inside the call to rfork_thread a bit further down. is rfork_thread significantly different between 4.8-RELEASE and 4.8-STABLE? rfork on FreeBSD does seem to change quite a bit. has it changed again or have i simply got something wrong? From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon May 17 15:14:49 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon May 17 15:14:49 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] slashdot From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:10:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i was offline at the time, on my way back from London (GNER hasn't got WiFi throughout yet), although since roger is our resident slashdot reader, i probably wouldn't have noticed in time. i discovered last time this happened that slashdot is a bit like one of those crazed parties where people suddenly appear, mill about, then vanish just as suddenly. showing up a bit later to answer questions was not worthwhile because everyone had moved on (ie, all the drink had gone). From 0xfe.org!vthacker Mon May 17 16:18:42 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ns.0xfe.org ([211.8.214.187]) by doppio; Mon May 17 16:18:42 BST 2004 Received: from vthacker by ns.0xfe.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1BPjo1-0004U7-Fy for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Tue, 18 May 2004 00:13:29 +0900 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 00:13:29 +0900 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Tips on installing Inferno on an IPAQ 3955 or an IPAQ 2215. Message-ID: <20040517151329.GA17225@0xfe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i From: Vester Thacker Does anyone have any tips on installing Inferno on an IPAQ 3600 or later model? I've read on irc that the install process is similiar to a Plan 9 installation, but the process diverges after the initial bootstrap. Any help is greatly appreciated. -- Vester Thacker From xaplos.com!macrod Mon May 17 17:28:02 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.70]) by doppio; Mon May 17 17:28:02 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040517162233.SMFM1249.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 12:22:33 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Tips on installing Inferno on an IPAQ 3955 or an IPAQ 2215. Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:22:28 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20040517151329.GA17225@0xfe.org> Thread-Index: AcQ8I+snrJa8qzFPRSCsPVl7376vQgABriUg Message-Id: <20040517162233.SMFM1249.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> I'd also be interested in a tutorial / step-by-step guide on this. I was looking at the microPDA from http://www.intrinsyc.com/products/pda/ to as a nice target board for testing, but it would be cheaper to do this using the iPAQ. Of course, if others are interested in helping to 'port' Inferno to this device, I'd happily help out. Thanks, -Mark > > Does anyone have any tips on installing Inferno on an IPAQ > 3600 or later model? I've read on irc that the install > process is similiar to a Plan 9 installation, but the process > diverges after the initial bootstrap. Any help is greatly > appreciated. > > -- Vester Thacker From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon May 17 18:54:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon May 17 18:54:36 BST 2004 Message-ID: <267a0f50e36ee3ecd8ed2f3a5f935bde@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Tips on installing Inferno on an IPAQ 3955 or an IPAQ 2215. From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 18:50:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040517151329.GA17225@0xfe.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-trwepgyfhvsbjsnnyniqiuccgx" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-trwepgyfhvsbjsnnyniqiuccgx Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit have you looked at os/ipaq1110/README? not because i expect that to answer all your questions, but because it would just help to know if you have already read that. --upas-trwepgyfhvsbjsnnyniqiuccgx Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Mon May 17 16:21:01 BST 2004 Received: from ns.0xfe.org ([211.8.214.187]) by doppio; Mon May 17 16:18:42 BST 2004 Received: from vthacker by ns.0xfe.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1BPjo1-0004U7-Fy for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Tue, 18 May 2004 00:13:29 +0900 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 00:13:29 +0900 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-ID: <20040517151329.GA17225@0xfe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i From: Vester Thacker Subject: [inferno-list] Tips on installing Inferno on an IPAQ 3955 or an IPAQ 2215. Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Does anyone have any tips on installing Inferno on an IPAQ 3600 or later model? I've read on irc that the install process is similiar to a Plan 9 installation, but the process diverges after the initial bootstrap. Any help is greatly appreciated. -- Vester Thacker --upas-trwepgyfhvsbjsnnyniqiuccgx-- From 0xfe.org!vthacker Mon May 17 21:52:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ns.0xfe.org ([211.8.214.187]) by doppio; Mon May 17 21:52:20 BST 2004 Received: from vthacker by ns.0xfe.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1BPp0v-0004XJ-9n for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Tue, 18 May 2004 05:47:09 +0900 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 05:47:09 +0900 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Tips on installing Inferno on an IPAQ 3955 or an IPAQ 2215. Message-ID: <20040517204709.GA17430@0xfe.org> References: <20040517151329.GA17225@0xfe.org> <267a0f50e36ee3ecd8ed2f3a5f935bde@terzarima.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <267a0f50e36ee3ecd8ed2f3a5f935bde@terzarima.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i From: Vester Thacker On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 06:50:39PM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > have you looked at os/ipaq1110/README? > not because i expect that to answer all your questions, > but because it would just help to know if you have already read that. No, I haven't. I missed the obvious. I'll start by reading it. Thanks. -- Vester Thacker From rog Mon May 17 23:08:10 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] slashdot Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 23:08:10 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > i see anothy is the only one who held the fort by answering messages in the > discussion board, so i decided to let everyone know :) i did seen it. there wasn't much worth responding to, although i did make a few attempts. From minnie.tuhs.org!wkt Tue May 18 00:27:23 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from minnie.tuhs.org ([131.244.9.101]) by doppio; Tue May 18 00:27:23 BST 2004 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2E1161DF8; Tue, 18 May 2004 09:21:53 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:21:52 +1000 From: Warren Toomey To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Problems installing Inferno on FreeBSD Message-ID: <20040517232152.GA33642@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <20040517124801.GA4825@minnie.tuhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 02:59:26PM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > the FreeBSD executable was built on 4.8-RELEASE. > i've checked that it is the right source for that executable > (by recompilation and cmp). i don't know why gdb > gets the wrong line number in kproc. it's almost certainly > inside the call to rfork_thread a bit further down. > > is rfork_thread significantly different between 4.8-RELEASE > and 4.8-STABLE? rfork on FreeBSD does seem to change > quite a bit. has it changed again or have i simply got > something wrong? Thanks for the reply Charles. If I boot with the FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE GENERIC kernel, I can indeed run emu and install Inferno. So something has changed in the FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE kernel. I will try to rebuild emu under the new kernel, so I can at least run it under gdb and see what is going wrong. Warren From minnie.tuhs.org!wkt Tue May 18 02:01:55 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from minnie.tuhs.org ([131.244.9.101]) by doppio; Tue May 18 02:01:55 BST 2004 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9826A1DA8; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:56:24 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:56:24 +1000 From: Warren Toomey To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Solved: Inferno on FreeBSD problem Message-ID: <20040518005624.GA49039@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <20040517124801.GA4825@minnie.tuhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040517124801.GA4825@minnie.tuhs.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 10:48:01PM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote: > Hi, I've just downloaded the Inferno v4 install CD, but I'm having troubles > installing on FreeBSD 4.x. Specifically, emu dies with a segmentation fault > during the install: All, thanks for the feedback. It turned out that my libc was out of sync with my FreeBSD kernel. After a rebuild/reinstall of libc+headers, emu is working fine now on FreeBSD 4.x-STABLE. Warren From virtualbuilder.com!jeff.macdonald Tue May 18 15:54:11 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mail1.e-dialog.com ([64.28.75.222]) by doppio; Tue May 18 15:54:11 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.40.189] (jm-node4.e-dialog.com [10.0.40.189]) by mail1.e-dialog.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i4IEmdfc006546 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: List Archives? From: Jeff Macdonald To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1084891706.21580.7.camel@jmacdonald-work.e-dialog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:48:33 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam: no X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.32 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Hi, I'm new to the list and would like to read archives before asking any questions. Could someone point me to the archives? TIA! From yahoo.com!tigerphoenixdragon Tue May 18 21:00:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from web42104.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.197]) by doppio; Tue May 18 21:00:45 BST 2004 Message-ID: <20040518195516.75063.qmail@web42104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.149.252.95] by web42104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 18 May 2004 12:55:16 PDT Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:55:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Stefan Johnson Subject: Windows XP install of version 4 fails To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I downloaded the gzipped ISO image and checked the md5 sums to ensure it was a good download. I burned the unzipped ISO image to a cd and tried to install from the newly burned CD. The install gets to a certain spot in the installation process then displays: too few fields in file header install: 37 "Inst":fail: eof When I try to run the program from the link in the start menu it complains about a missing "sh.dis" file. Has anyone else had this problem or know how to solve it? Thanks in advance. The entire installation log follows: -------BEGIN LOG--------- Looking for Emu ... Found D:\Nt\386\bin\emu.exe installing package /install/FreeBSD/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/FreeBSD installing directory /wrap/FreeBSD/1080737398 installing directory /FreeBSD installing directory /FreeBSD/386 installing directory /FreeBSD/386/bin installing directory /FreeBSD/386/include installing directory /FreeBSD/386/lib done installing package /install/Irix/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/Irix installing directory /wrap/Irix/1080737398 installing directory /Irix installing directory /Irix/mips installing directory /Irix/mips/bin installing directory /Irix/mips/include installing directory /Irix/mips/lib done installing package /install/Linux/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/Linux installing directory /wrap/Linux/1080737398 installing directory /Linux installing directory /Linux/386 installing directory /Linux/386/bin installing directory /Linux/386/include installing directory /Linux/386/lib done installing package /install/MacOSX/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/MacOSX installing directory /wrap/MacOSX/1080737398 installing directory /MacOSX installing directory /MacOSX/power installing directory /MacOSX/power/bin installing directory /MacOSX/power/include installing directory /MacOSX/power/include/CVS installing directory /MacOSX/power/lib done installing package /install/Nt/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/Nt installing directory /wrap/Nt/1080737398 installing directory /Nt installing directory /Nt/386 installing directory /Nt/386/bin installing directory /Nt/386/include installing directory /Nt/386/lib done installing package /install/Plan9/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/Plan9 installing directory /wrap/Plan9/1080737398 installing directory /Plan9 installing directory /Plan9/386 installing directory /Plan9/386/bin installing directory /Plan9/386/include installing directory /Plan9/386/lib installing directory /Plan9/mips installing directory /Plan9/mips/bin installing directory /Plan9/mips/include installing directory /Plan9/mips/lib installing directory /Plan9/sparc installing directory /Plan9/sparc/bin installing directory /Plan9/sparc/include installing directory /Plan9/sparc/lib installing directory /Plan9/power installing directory /Plan9/power/bin installing directory /Plan9/power/include installing directory /Plan9/power/lib done installing package /install/Solaris/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/Solaris installing directory /wrap/Solaris/1080737398 installing directory /Solaris installing directory /Solaris/sparc installing directory /Solaris/sparc/bin installing directory /Solaris/sparc/include installing directory /Solaris/sparc/lib done installing package /install/inferno/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/inferno installing directory /wrap/inferno/1080737398 installing directory /FreeBSD installing directory /FreeBSD/386 installing directory /FreeBSD/386/bin installing directory /FreeBSD/386/include installing directory /FreeBSD/386/lib installing directory /Hp installing directory /Hp/s800 installing directory /Hp/s800/bin installing directory /Hp/s800/include installing directory /Hp/s800/lib installing directory /Irix installing directory /Irix/mips installing directory /Irix/mips/bin installing directory /Irix/mips/include installing directory /Irix/mips/lib installing directory /Linux installing directory /Linux/386 installing directory /Linux/386/bin installing directory /Linux/386/include installing directory /Linux/386/lib installing directory /Nt installing directory /Nt/386 installing directory /Nt/386/bin installing directory /Nt/386/include installing directory /Nt/386/lib installing directory /Plan9 installing directory /Plan9/386 installing directory /Plan9/386/bin installing directory /Plan9/386/include installing directory /Plan9/386/lib installing directory /Plan9/sparc installing directory /Plan9/sparc/bin installing directory /Plan9/sparc/include installing directory /Plan9/sparc/lib installing directory /Plan9/mips installing directory /Plan9/mips/bin installing directory /Plan9/mips/include installing directory /Plan9/mips/lib installing directory /Plan9/power installing directory /Plan9/power/bin installing directory /Plan9/power/include installing directory /Plan9/power/lib installing directory /Solaris installing directory /Solaris/sparc installing directory /Solaris/sparc/bin installing directory /Solaris/sparc/include installing directory /Solaris/sparc/lib installing directory /include installing directory /include/freetype installing directory /include/freetype/cache installing directory /include/freetype/config installing directory /include/freetype/internal installing directory /acme installing directory /acme/acid installing directory /acme/acid/386 installing directory /acme/bin installing directory /acme/dis installing directory /acme/edit installing directory /acme/mail installing directory /appl installing directory /appl/acme installing directory /appl/acme/acme installing directory /appl/acme/acme/acid installing directory /appl/acme/acme/acid/src installing directory /appl/acme/acme/bin installing directory /appl/acme/acme/bin/src installing directory /appl/acme/acme/edit installing directory /appl/acme/acme/edit/src installing directory /appl/acme/acme/mail installing directory /appl/acme/acme/mail/src installing directory /appl/charon too few fields in file header install: 37 "Inst":fail: eof EOF from Emu Moving emu.new to emu.exe ........... DONE Saving Inferno root in Registry ..... DONE Creating start-menu item ............ DONE Installation completed -------END OF LOG------------- The message displayed when the link is run follows: panic: loading "/dis/emuinit.dis": '/dis' file does not exist __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From terzarima.net!forsyth Tue May 18 21:22:41 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Tue May 18 21:22:41 BST 2004 Message-ID: <8a824127d4579dbd76f428269e6e0d4d@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Windows XP install of version 4 fails From: Charles Forsyth Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:17:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040518195516.75063.qmail@web42104.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the installation wasn't sucessful; it gave up before it had installed much of it. (how silly of it to update the menu and registry, then, you might well think.) does it always fail at the same point? From yahoo.com!tigerphoenixdragon Tue May 18 21:54:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from web42103.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.196]) by doppio; Tue May 18 21:54:52 BST 2004 Message-ID: <20040518204236.37905.qmail@web42103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.149.252.95] by web42103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:42:36 PDT Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:42:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Stefan Johnson Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Windows XP install of version 4 fails To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <8a824127d4579dbd76f428269e6e0d4d@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Charles Forsyth wrote: > the installation wasn't sucessful; it gave up > before it had installed much of it. (how silly of > it to update > the menu and registry, then, you might well think.) > > does it always fail at the same point? > Yes, always at the same spot. I have 2 CD's. I downloaded the iso.gz file twice and verified it each time before unzipping it and burning it, so it wasn't likely to be a bad download, nor is it likely a bad burn as I've never gotten a bad burn using cygwin's cdrecord before. Any ideas? Thanks. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!www Tue May 18 22:31:47 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Tue May 18 22:31:47 BST 2004 Received: from vimp2.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.91]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1BQC6N-0004TA-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:26:19 +0100 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp2.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1BQC6H-0002EZ-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:26:13 +0100 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1BQC6H-00071a-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:26:13 +0100 Received: (from www@localhost) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) id i4ILQDPk020252; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:26:13 +0100 (BST) To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Windows XP install of version 4 fails Message-ID: <1084915573.40aa7f750a12b@www.nerc-essc.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 22:26:13 +0100 (BST) From: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk References: <20040518204236.37905.qmail@web42103.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040518204236.37905.qmail@web42103.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.7 X-Originating-IP: 62.252.32.5 X-Scanner: exiscan *1BQC6H-0002EZ-00*7g1vzvYPzms* (The University of Reading) Stefan, This happened to me too. I found that if I burned the ISO image (even if it had a correct md5 sum) under Windows XP using Nero, the installation failed in the way you describe. I burned the same ISO image using cdroast under Linux and everything worked fine. Maybe there's a problem with certain CD- burning packages, although this would surprise me a little. Hope this helps, Jon Quoting Stefan Johnson : > > --- Charles Forsyth wrote: > > the installation wasn't sucessful; it gave up > > before it had installed much of it. (how silly of > > it to update > > the menu and registry, then, you might well think.) > > > > does it always fail at the same point? > > > > Yes, always at the same spot. I have 2 CD's. I > downloaded the iso.gz file twice and verified it each > time before unzipping it and burning it, so it wasn't > likely to be a bad download, nor is it likely a bad > burn as I've never gotten a bad burn using cygwin's > cdrecord before. Any ideas? > > Thanks. > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed May 19 00:13:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed May 19 00:13:27 BST 2004 Message-ID: <43159760570288aef9e42b1e78448792@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Windows XP install of version 4 fails From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 00:07:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040518204236.37905.qmail@web42103.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Yes, always at the same spot. I have 2 CD's. I >>downloaded the iso.gz file twice and verified it each >>time before unzipping it and burning it, so it wasn't >>likely to be a bad download, nor is it likely a bad >>burn as I've never gotten a bad burn using cygwin's >>cdrecord before. Any ideas? i'll try it on an XP machine tomorrow, although it worked for me the last time i tested it. From inbox.lv!alangraham Wed May 19 00:37:01 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from epsilon.bkc.lv ([195.244.128.59]) by doppio; Wed May 19 00:37:01 BST 2004 Received: by epsilon.bkc.lv (Postfix, from userid 1008) id 9F8523E3F; Wed, 19 May 2004 02:31:32 +0300 (EEST) Received: from omegaalan (unknown [195.244.141.143]) by epsilon.bkc.lv (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CC513E39 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 02:31:31 +0300 (EEST) From: "Alan Graham" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Windows XP install of version 4 fails Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 02:31:37 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcQ9FAjUrMYobU2SSI+6e1sLlMxYuQAF1wvg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20040518195516.75063.qmail@web42104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <20040518233131.5CC513E39@epsilon.bkc.lv> I have exactly the same trouble installing Inferno version 4 on Windows XP. Almost nothing works on Windows XP! Not only did I try the ISO image but I tried the individual downloads. None of the Inferno plug-ins work except for "shell". Shell works great and fast! With all of the others I get the error message: Error in Protocol.CoCreateInstance[0x80004002] If anyone can guide me through this it would be appreciated. Alan alangraham@yahoo.com -----Original Message----- From: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com [mailto:inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Johnson Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:55 PM To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: [inferno-list] Windows XP install of version 4 fails I downloaded the gzipped ISO image and checked the md5 sums to ensure it was a good download. I burned the unzipped ISO image to a cd and tried to install from the newly burned CD. The install gets to a certain spot in the installation process then displays: too few fields in file header install: 37 "Inst":fail: eof When I try to run the program from the link in the start menu it complains about a missing "sh.dis" file. Has anyone else had this problem or know how to solve it? Thanks in advance. The entire installation log follows: -------BEGIN LOG--------- Looking for Emu ... Found D:\Nt\386\bin\emu.exe installing package /install/FreeBSD/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/FreeBSD installing directory /wrap/FreeBSD/1080737398 installing directory /FreeBSD installing directory /FreeBSD/386 installing directory /FreeBSD/386/bin installing directory /FreeBSD/386/include installing directory /FreeBSD/386/lib done installing package /install/Irix/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/Irix installing directory /wrap/Irix/1080737398 installing directory /Irix installing directory /Irix/mips installing directory /Irix/mips/bin installing directory /Irix/mips/include installing directory /Irix/mips/lib done installing package /install/Linux/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/Linux installing directory /wrap/Linux/1080737398 installing directory /Linux installing directory /Linux/386 installing directory /Linux/386/bin installing directory /Linux/386/include installing directory /Linux/386/lib done installing package /install/MacOSX/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/MacOSX installing directory /wrap/MacOSX/1080737398 installing directory /MacOSX installing directory /MacOSX/power installing directory /MacOSX/power/bin installing directory /MacOSX/power/include installing directory /MacOSX/power/include/CVS installing directory /MacOSX/power/lib done installing package /install/Nt/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/Nt installing directory /wrap/Nt/1080737398 installing directory /Nt installing directory /Nt/386 installing directory /Nt/386/bin installing directory /Nt/386/include installing directory /Nt/386/lib done installing package /install/Plan9/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/Plan9 installing directory /wrap/Plan9/1080737398 installing directory /Plan9 installing directory /Plan9/386 installing directory /Plan9/386/bin installing directory /Plan9/386/include installing directory /Plan9/386/lib installing directory /Plan9/mips installing directory /Plan9/mips/bin installing directory /Plan9/mips/include installing directory /Plan9/mips/lib installing directory /Plan9/sparc installing directory /Plan9/sparc/bin installing directory /Plan9/sparc/include installing directory /Plan9/sparc/lib installing directory /Plan9/power installing directory /Plan9/power/bin installing directory /Plan9/power/include installing directory /Plan9/power/lib done installing package /install/Solaris/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/Solaris installing directory /wrap/Solaris/1080737398 installing directory /Solaris installing directory /Solaris/sparc installing directory /Solaris/sparc/bin installing directory /Solaris/sparc/include installing directory /Solaris/sparc/lib done installing package /install/inferno/1080737398 installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/inferno installing directory /wrap/inferno/1080737398 installing directory /FreeBSD installing directory /FreeBSD/386 installing directory /FreeBSD/386/bin installing directory /FreeBSD/386/include installing directory /FreeBSD/386/lib installing directory /Hp installing directory /Hp/s800 installing directory /Hp/s800/bin installing directory /Hp/s800/include installing directory /Hp/s800/lib installing directory /Irix installing directory /Irix/mips installing directory /Irix/mips/bin installing directory /Irix/mips/include installing directory /Irix/mips/lib installing directory /Linux installing directory /Linux/386 installing directory /Linux/386/bin installing directory /Linux/386/include installing directory /Linux/386/lib installing directory /Nt installing directory /Nt/386 installing directory /Nt/386/bin installing directory /Nt/386/include installing directory /Nt/386/lib installing directory /Plan9 installing directory /Plan9/386 installing directory /Plan9/386/bin installing directory /Plan9/386/include installing directory /Plan9/386/lib installing directory /Plan9/sparc installing directory /Plan9/sparc/bin installing directory /Plan9/sparc/include installing directory /Plan9/sparc/lib installing directory /Plan9/mips installing directory /Plan9/mips/bin installing directory /Plan9/mips/include installing directory /Plan9/mips/lib installing directory /Plan9/power installing directory /Plan9/power/bin installing directory /Plan9/power/include installing directory /Plan9/power/lib installing directory /Solaris installing directory /Solaris/sparc installing directory /Solaris/sparc/bin installing directory /Solaris/sparc/include installing directory /Solaris/sparc/lib installing directory /include installing directory /include/freetype installing directory /include/freetype/cache installing directory /include/freetype/config installing directory /include/freetype/internal installing directory /acme installing directory /acme/acid installing directory /acme/acid/386 installing directory /acme/bin installing directory /acme/dis installing directory /acme/edit installing directory /acme/mail installing directory /appl installing directory /appl/acme installing directory /appl/acme/acme installing directory /appl/acme/acme/acid installing directory /appl/acme/acme/acid/src installing directory /appl/acme/acme/bin installing directory /appl/acme/acme/bin/src installing directory /appl/acme/acme/edit installing directory /appl/acme/acme/edit/src installing directory /appl/acme/acme/mail installing directory /appl/acme/acme/mail/src installing directory /appl/charon too few fields in file header install: 37 "Inst":fail: eof EOF from Emu Moving emu.new to emu.exe ........... DONE Saving Inferno root in Registry ..... DONE Creating start-menu item ............ DONE Installation completed -------END OF LOG------------- The message displayed when the link is run follows: panic: loading "/dis/emuinit.dis": '/dis' file does not exist __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From cooper.edu!salomo3 Wed May 19 01:20:09 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wish.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.74]) by doppio; Wed May 19 01:20:09 BST 2004 Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 6B418393A; Tue, 18 May 2004 20:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id EEA8B3937 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 20:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-2ive7mm.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.30.214]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish.cooper.edu with HTTP; Tue, 18 May 2004 20:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3193.165.247.30.214.1084924870.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> In-Reply-To: <20040518233131.5CC513E39@epsilon.bkc.lv> References: <20040518195516.75063.qmail@web42104.mail.yahoo.com> <20040518233131.5CC513E39@epsilon.bkc.lv> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 20:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Windows XP install of version 4 fails From: "Joel Salomon" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-19.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan Graham said: > I have exactly the same trouble installing Inferno version 4 on Windows > XP. > > Almost nothing works on Windows XP! If something's changed in the last month, that might be the culprit. I've installed inferno on two WinXP machines from an image I downloaded in early April, and it's worked just fine. (any way to check on the date w/o the cd handy?) --Joel From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed May 19 08:47:18 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed May 19 08:47:18 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Windows XP install of version 4 fails From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:41:45 +0100 In-Reply-To: <3193.165.247.30.214.1084924870.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>With all of the others I get the error message: >>Error in Protocol.CoCreateInstance[0x80004002] a google was enlightening. it's trying to create COM object for a given class ID (but failing for some hex number). presumably it's the plug-in. at least one other gets the same diagnostic with IE, and he isn't running Inferno or its plug-in. nor did he get a reply to his query about it. >>(any way to check on the date w/o the cd handy?) cat /dev/sysctl in the first instance. that gives the date of the system build, which is also the version. the /wrap files contain seemingly endless md5sum detail about which instance of everything that version actually contains. From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed May 19 08:52:40 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed May 19 08:52:40 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Windows XP install of version 4 fails From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:47:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: <3193.165.247.30.214.1084924870.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>If something's changed in the last month, that might be the culprit. I've >>installed inferno on two WinXP machines from an image I downloaded in >>early April, and it's worked just fine. i wonder whether i've changed the machine (and thus the Visual C++ instance) i used to build it. on the other hand, the current distribution was built in late March and hasn't changed since then, so if you downloaded in early April, the version you're running is the same as that causing problems to others! (?) please cat /dev/sysctl just to make sure. it's certainly intended to work, so we'd better track this down. i'm sure it installs and runs on XP machines in the office, although i'll double-check later. i've just built a whole new collection, including updated MacOSX, but if XP isn't working there's no point putting it out until that's mended. From yahoo.com!tigerphoenixdragon Wed May 19 15:13:34 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from web42101.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.194]) by doppio; Wed May 19 15:13:34 BST 2004 Message-ID: <20040519140804.93656.qmail@web42101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.149.253.247] by web42101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 19 May 2004 07:08:04 PDT Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 07:08:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Stefan Johnson Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Windows XP install of version 4 fails To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I managed to download and install revision 3 since rev. 4 isn't working for me. I'll play with rev. 3 until I have a chance to try to burn a copy of rev. 4 on a different machine, or until I see an updated version out on the net. Thanks for the help. Stefan Johnson __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed May 19 15:53:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed May 19 15:53:45 BST 2004 Message-ID: <1531925b3c29d1428cede3dfe2956f70@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Windows XP install of version 4 fails From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 15:48:12 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040519140804.93656.qmail@web42101.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'll try putting up the one i did yesterday, just to see if there is any difference, and partly because it might do some good for someone. perhaps it's something odd about the program i use to create the cd image, if the 3rd edition image worked but the 4th edition one doesn't. From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed May 19 16:55:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed May 19 16:55:27 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Windows XP install of version 4 fails From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:49:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040518233131.5CC513E39@epsilon.bkc.lv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Not only did I try the ISO image but I tried the individual downloads. >>With all of the others I get the error message: >>Error in Protocol.CoCreateInstance[0x80004002] did you get that when fetching the individual Nt.tgz inferno.tgz etc? i'd have thought that Protocol... diagnostic could only occur with the plug-in. From yahoo.com!tigerphoenixdragon Wed May 19 18:27:10 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from web42104.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.197]) by doppio; Wed May 19 18:27:10 BST 2004 Message-ID: <20040519172140.83367.qmail@web42104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.149.253.247] by web42104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 19 May 2004 10:21:40 PDT Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:21:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Stefan Johnson Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Windows XP install of version 4 fails To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <1531925b3c29d1428cede3dfe2956f70@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Charles Forsyth wrote: > i'll try putting up the one i did yesterday, just to > see if > there is any difference, and partly because it > might do some good for someone. perhaps it's > something odd about > the program i use to create the cd image, if the 3rd > edition > image worked but the 4th edition one doesn't. > When I grabbed the 3rd edition, it wasn't an ISO image. I didn't see one or I would have tried it. I had to download 2 different files and run the setup from one of those after unzipping them. I'll look for the new version later :) thanks. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From cooper.edu!salomo3 Wed May 19 18:55:15 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wish.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.74]) by doppio; Wed May 19 18:55:15 BST 2004 Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 98CEA3939; Wed, 19 May 2004 13:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 2ACBC3937 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 13:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-uive84v.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.32.159]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish.cooper.edu with HTTP; Wed, 19 May 2004 13:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3418.165.247.32.159.1084988174.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> In-Reply-To: References: <3193.165.247.30.214.1084924870.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Windows XP install of version 4 fails From: "Joel Salomon" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-9.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charles Forsyth said: > please cat /dev/sysctl just to make sure. > ; cat /dev/sysctl Fourth Edition (20040331); Hope this helps. --Joel From ece.cmu.edu!pstanley Wed May 19 19:22:15 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Wed May 19 19:22:15 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.77.244] (unknown [128.2.77.244]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3BF2AB; Wed, 19 May 2004 14:16:46 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <1084891706.21580.7.camel@jmacdonald-work.e-dialog.com> References: <1084891706.21580.7.camel@jmacdonald-work.e-dialog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: phillip stanley-marbell Subject: Re: [inferno-list] List Archives? Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:16:54 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Until there is an official list archive, you can find links to the present and past mailing list archives at http://inferno.gemusehaken.org There is also a FAQ which badly needs updating, and links to collections of Inferno software. cheers, phillip > Hi, > I'm new to the list and would like to read archives before asking any > questions. Could someone point me to the archives? TIA! From comcast.net!caerwyn Thu May 20 02:16:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.198.39]) by doppio; Thu May 20 02:16:36 BST 2004 From: comcast.net!caerwyn To: vitanuova.com!inferno-list Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 01:11:06 +0000 (GMT) X-Comment: Sending client does not conform to RFC822 minimum requirements X-Comment: Date has been added by Maillennium Received: from comcast.net (h000c41af2c71.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.7.243]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004052001110601500q2cd6e>; Thu, 20 May 2004 01:11:06 +0000 Subject: pwrite bug on win2000 Here's a bug that has frustrated me for a while. It only appears on win2000 on the #U device. Here's some code that procduces it. implement Toy; include "sys.m"; include "draw.m"; Toy: module { init: fn(nil: ref Draw->Context, argv: list of string); }; BLOCK: con 8192; init(nil: ref Draw->Context, argv: list of string) { sys := load Sys Sys->PATH; fd := sys->open(hd tl argv, Sys->ORDWR); buf := array[BLOCK] of byte; for(i := 0; i < 40; i++) buf[i] = byte i; sys->pwrite(fd, buf, BLOCK, big 0); sys->pwrite(fd, buf, BLOCK, big (BLOCK * 3)); sys->pwrite(fd, buf, BLOCK, big (BLOCK * 2)); sys->pwrite(fd, buf, BLOCK, big (BLOCK * 1)); } And here's an example of the output. % limbo toy.b % > t1 % ./toy t1 % mdb t1 0,40/b 0x00 0x01 0x02 0x03 0x04 0x05 0x06 0x07 0x08 0x09 0x0a 0x0b 0x0c 0x0d 0x0e 0x0f 0x10 0x11 0x12 0x13 0x14 0x15 0x16 0x17 0x18 0x19 0x1a 0x1b 0x1c 0x1d 0x1e 0x1f 0x20 0x21 0x22 0x23 0x24 0x25 0x26 0x27 8192,40/b 0x00 0x01 0x02 0x03 0x04 0x05 0x06 0x07 0x08 0x09 0x0a 0x0b 0x0c 0x0d 0x0e 0x0f 0x10 0x11 0x12 0x13 0x14 0x15 0x16 0x17 0x18 0x19 0x1a 0x1b 0x1c 0x1d 0x1e 0x1f 0x20 0x21 0x22 0x23 0x24 0x25 0x26 0x27 8192*2,40/b 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 8192*3,40/b 0x00 0x01 0x02 0x03 0x04 0x05 0x06 0x07 0x08 0x09 0x0a 0x0b 0x0c 0x0d 0x0e 0x0f 0x10 0x11 0x12 0x13 0x14 0x15 0x16 0x17 0x18 0x19 0x1a 0x1b 0x1c 0x1d 0x1e 0x1f 0x20 0x21 0x22 0x23 0x24 0x25 0x26 0x27 Why is that third block blank? I only noticed it because it breaks my tickfs. Any help here would be appreciated, even if just to confirm that the bug exists and I'm not going crazy. Thanks. -Caerwyn From york.ac.uk!as234 Thu May 20 10:45:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mail-gw0.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.245]) by doppio; Thu May 20 10:45:52 BST 2004 Received: from [144.32.20.21] (whitegene.york.ac.uk [144.32.20.21]) by mail-gw0.york.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4K9eJV9012232 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 10:40:19 +0100 (BST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com From: Abhey Shah Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:40:18 +0100 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean Subject: interesting hardware Currently the linux port for the gamecube has the ethernet and the framebuffer working. It's probably one of the cheaper ways to get a 500 Mhz powerpc 750. http://www.gc-linux.org/ Also these boards are available but no idea of price http://www.eyetech.co.uk/addbar.php?Address=/NEWS/PREPR003.HTM hope that's some use Abhey From rog Thu May 20 16:18:18 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] pwrite bug on win2000 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:18:18 +0100 From: rog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Here's a bug that has frustrated me for a while. john firth has found the bug that causes this. the internal offset wasn't being updated - the fix is easy, just add: FS(c)->offset = offset; after each of the two calls to "SetFilePointer" in /emu/Nt/devfs.c. we'll issue a fix for this (charles is responsible for this, but is away today, so you'll have to await news from him). at the moment, i'm afraid there's no easy workaround. i suppose in extremis you could keep track of where the driver *thinks* the offset is, and avoid doing a read at that offset (you could interpose a dummy read at a different seek address...). not ideal i'm afraid. nice bug - it might explain some sporadic problems we've had in the past. From rog Thu May 20 20:51:36 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: limbo polymorphism Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:51:36 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <20040520192144.10183.qmail@g.galapagos.bx.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >| you could express it quite nicely with the new limbo >| polymorphism stuff: > >Is there a good reference to look at for that? ahem. i don't believe there is, until someone gets around to updating the reference manual. the syntax does seem reasonably stable now, so that should probably happen... it's really quite straightforward though: a function or adt can be parameterised with one or more type names (in square brackets). these types can be used in the body of the function or adt as any other type. e.g. reverse[T](x: list of T): list of T; Table: adt[T] { items: array of list of (int, T); new: fn(nslots: int): ref Table[T]; add: fn(t: self ref Table, id: int, x: T): int; del: fn(t: self ref Table, id: int): int; find: fn(t: self ref Table, id: int): T; }; a "for" clause can define operations on the types (by default there are none save assignment (and possibly equality, although i think that will be deprecated). e.g. sort[T](a: array of T) for { T => cmp: fn (t0, t1: T): int; }; Env: adt[V] for { V => discard: fn(v: self V); } { items: array of list of (string, V); new: fn(nslots: int): ref Env[V]; set: fn(t: self ref Env, id: string, x: V); get: fn(t: self ref Env, id: string): V; clear: fn(t: self ref Env); }; [the last syntax is going to change, i think, so that the for clause comes *after* the adt declaration, rather than in the middle as currently.] when calling a type-parameterised function, the compiler infers the type parameter from the given arguments (currently it's not possible to explicitly name the type, although that'll come, once john susses the grammar). with a function or adt declared polymorphically, you can use any "pointer type" (i.e. ref adts, chans, arrays, lists and strings). for polymorphic types that require member functions, the type has to be an adt containing at least the required member functions. so, given the above declaration, you could do: x := reverse("one" :: "two" :: "three" :: nil); to get a list containing "three"::"two"::"one"::nil (assuming reverse() reverses a list!). From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu May 20 21:16:00 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu May 20 21:16:00 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [9fans] limbo polymorphism From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:10:25 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Env: adt[V] for { V => discard: fn(v: self V); } { following a suggestion of roger's, that for clause might move to follow the adt declaration, that's one reason the syntax hasn't been published yet. it doesn't affect functionality. From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu May 20 21:21:46 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu May 20 21:21:46 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] pwrite bug on win2000 From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:16:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: <25849754f4b381fb66886411c908fc86@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Here's a bug that has frustrated me for a while. i'm not surprised. it wasn't pwrite as such. i dealt with it on the train on the way home. good thing you pointed it out before i wrote another CD! thanks! From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu May 20 21:23:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu May 20 21:23:52 BST 2004 Message-ID: <68fd289c0073ba841ff9c6409540070e@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] pwrite bug on win2000 From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:18:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-yakxgwzvuvgnwubbcutemfahug" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-yakxgwzvuvgnwubbcutemfahug Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>charles is responsible for this, but i am not. it was someone in 1995. --upas-yakxgwzvuvgnwubbcutemfahug Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Thu May 20 16:20:02 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:18:18 +0100 From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [inferno-list] pwrite bug on win2000 Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk > Here's a bug that has frustrated me for a while. john firth has found the bug that causes this. the internal offset wasn't being updated - the fix is easy, just add: FS(c)->offset = offset; after each of the two calls to "SetFilePointer" in /emu/Nt/devfs.c. we'll issue a fix for this (charles is responsible for this, but is away today, so you'll have to await news from him). at the moment, i'm afraid there's no easy workaround. i suppose in extremis you could keep track of where the driver *thinks* the offset is, and avoid doing a read at that offset (you could interpose a dummy read at a different seek address...). not ideal i'm afraid. nice bug - it might explain some sporadic problems we've had in the past. --upas-yakxgwzvuvgnwubbcutemfahug-- From forsyth Thu May 20 22:03:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:03:20 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] pwrite bug on win2000 In-Reply-To: <68fd289c0073ba841ff9c6409540070e@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>i am not. it was someone in 1995. no, it wasn't; it was later than that. anyhow, it will be fixed in the next image. expect that shortly. From infernopark.com!vdharani Thu May 20 22:29:30 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ensim.rackshack.net ([216.127.72.23]) by doppio; Thu May 20 22:29:30 BST 2004 Received: from infernopark.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by ensim.rackshack.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i4KNnVZ24944 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:49:31 -0400 Received: from 192.11.226.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Thu, 20 May 2004 19:49:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <64431.192.11.226.116.1085096971.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:49:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: parametric polymorphism From: To: In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit so what part of parametric polymorphism is yet to be implemented or put in the release version? if it is not completed yet, is there anything kind-of too tough to implement thats causing the delay? just curious. thanks dharani From vitanuova.com!michael Thu May 20 23:02:16 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 158.152.8.115 ([158.152.8.115]) by doppio; Thu May 20 23:02:16 BST 2004 Message-ID: <006c01c43ef7$d3d2d370$7308989e@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: Subject: Inferno Use Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:51:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 A few weeks ago there was a thread discussing who out there was actually using Inferno. Unfortunately we are not always able to publicise what we do, particularly if it involves native ports of Inferno. It therefore makes a pleasant change to be able to publicise a project that we began last November to implement the Inferno Grid for a bio-science customer of ours, www.vitanuova.com/solutions/grid/news/evotecoai.pdf contains the release. I mention it here on the mailing list partly because I am just generally rather smug about the whole thing but also as an encouragement to others. There must indeed be something uniquely powerful and simple within Inferno that enables charles, rog et. al. to accomplish in 10 weeks what many competitors have spent a decade or more (with large teams) to do. From imperium.ph!dido Fri May 21 08:04:51 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from gateway.imperium.ph ([202.175.240.154]) by doppio; Fri May 21 08:04:51 BST 2004 Received: from morgoth (morgoth.imperium.ph [192.168.1.35]) by gateway.imperium.ph (Postfix) with SMTP id 7DC4A46CA6 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 15:03:15 +0800 (PHT) Received: by morgoth (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 21 May 2004 14:59:13 +0800 From: dido@imperium.ph Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:59:13 +0800 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] limbo polymorphism Message-ID: <20040521065913.GB29697@imperium.ph> References: <20040520192144.10183.qmail@g.galapagos.bx.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Linux morgoth 2.6.5-gentoo-r1 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i On Thu, May 20, 2004 at 08:51:36PM +0100, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > a function or adt can be parameterised with one or more type names (in > square brackets). these types can be used in the body of the function > or adt as any other type. Oh, there's another Limbo feature that I'm not aware of, paremeterized types and templates... *sigh* Hopefully this won't turn my compiler inside out so much. From forsyth Fri May 21 09:19:03 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:19:03 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Use In-Reply-To: <006c01c43ef7$d3d2d370$7308989e@MICHAEL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>uniquely powerful and simple within Inferno that enables charles, >>rog et. al. to accomplish in 10 weeks what many competitors it was really roger, chris and danny. i mainly just fixed things: exportfs, swiproc, and Linux. From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Fri May 21 09:43:56 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Fri May 21 09:43:56 BST 2004 Received: from vimp1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.90]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1BR5Xu-0004PV-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:38:26 +0100 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1BR5Xq-00087Q-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:38:22 +0100 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1BR5Xq-0002rw-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:38:22 +0100 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4L8cLsm006193 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 09:38:22 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Use From: Jon Blower To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: <006c01c43ef7$d3d2d370$7308989e@MICHAEL> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1085128701.4661.0.camel@marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:38:21 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *1BR5Xq-00087Q-00*vmv1uU5QnTg* (The University of Reading) Hi everyone, I think I must have missed the original thread discussing who's using Inferno, so I'd like to make a contribution now. I'm starting to get to grips with Inferno as I think it could be a great way of creating a fairly simple distributed application that we've been struggling with for a while. Basically, this app involves extracting data from an archive, processing it and rendering it into a graphical form (such as a movie). We'd like to distribute this task so that each "step" happens on a different machine, and the data are "piped" directly from one machine to another. I think this is a lot easier in Inferno than the way we were doing it before (using Web Services... don't ask why!) I've put up a Wiki site about our efforts, which also contains a useful collection of Inferno-related links (http://www.resc.rdg.ac.uk/twiki/bin/view/Resc/VitaNuovaInferno). Please feel free to have a look and poke around (the organisation could be better, I'm afraid). You're very welcome to add your own pages, links, suggestions etc if you like (you'll have to register on the Wiki to do this, but that's free of course). We're also hoping to try out the Inferno Grid software (here at Reading University) once we find a suitable pool of computers on which to install it (and a project to do on it!) We'd especially like to compare it with other similar solutions such as Condor. We'll post our findings on the Wiki, so watch that space (BTW, you can register to be automatically notified of changes to the Wiki - click on "Email notify" on the left of any page). Cheers, Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:51 AM Subject: [inferno-list] Inferno Use > A few weeks ago there was a thread discussing who out there > was actually using Inferno. Unfortunately we are not always > able to publicise what we do, particularly if it involves native > ports of Inferno. It therefore makes a pleasant change to be > able to publicise a project that we began last November to > implement the Inferno Grid for a bio-science customer of > ours, www.vitanuova.com/solutions/grid/news/evotecoai.pdf > contains the release. > > I mention it here on the mailing list partly because I am just > generally rather smug about the whole thing but also as an > encouragement to others. There must indeed be something > uniquely powerful and simple within Inferno that enables charles, > rog et. al. to accomplish in 10 weeks what many competitors > have spent a decade or more (with large teams) to do. > > From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri May 21 10:04:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri May 21 10:04:36 BST 2004 Message-ID: <0c0c8cb27c0fa4bb40f1ade84eead1ad@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Use From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:59:00 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1085128701.4661.0.camel@marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Basically, this app involves extracting data from an archive, processing it >>and rendering it into a graphical form (such as a movie). We'd like to and of course, you can retrieve binary things like images in ... err ... binary, instead of (say) including it as a MIME-like `attachment' to a SOAP message on a server-pushed stream with asynchronous replies. roger has been looking at interfaces to Web Services. he seems a good choice because he is used to climbing mountains. From 9srv.net!a Fri May 21 10:31:04 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Fri May 21 10:31:04 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.150] ([193.195.87.250]) by 9srv.net; Fri May 21 05:25:34 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <8149c8b125fc55486d66dbac92e09d7d@vitanuova.com> References: <8149c8b125fc55486d66dbac92e09d7d@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Use Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:25:32 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) > it was really roger, chris and danny. > i mainly just fixed things: exportfs, swiproc, and Linux. so linux is fixed? 'bout friggin' time! :-) some guy from jersey. $B%"(B From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri May 21 10:37:21 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri May 21 10:37:21 BST 2004 Message-ID: <295dc06e2e33edcc0358016e908c9bea@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] limbo polymorphism From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:31:45 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040521065913.GB29697@imperium.ph> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'm not sure how `templates' relate to classical parametric polymorphism. there must be some difference, otherwise why give them a different name? (silly question really, when swamped by servlets, tasklets, applets, all of them sounding cute, like little piglets, when they are often as big as elephants, let alone sows.) the main restriction in Limbo is that only reference types (eg, ref adt, module, chan, array, list) and strings can be actual parameters. extending it to arbitrary types is harder, but probably will be done eventually. the dual, existential types, would be desirable too, but it's a little different in a dynamically-typed language (dynamically-loaded modules introduce dynamic typing). Limbo began with such a clean type system, especially by some modern standards, that we're trying to avoid just hacking things in. roger had a scheme that i thought was clever but a bit intricate, and thinking about that i began to feel there was a variant of type Dynamic (which i wanted anyway) that might work sensibly. From imperium.ph!dido Fri May 21 10:48:55 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from gateway.imperium.ph ([202.175.240.154]) by doppio; Fri May 21 10:48:55 BST 2004 Received: from morgoth (morgoth.imperium.ph [192.168.1.35]) by gateway.imperium.ph (Postfix) with SMTP id 8C4B946CA2 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:47:18 +0800 (PHT) Received: by morgoth (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 21 May 2004 17:43:16 +0800 From: dido@imperium.ph Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:43:16 +0800 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: forward references Message-ID: <20040521094316.GA31793@imperium.ph> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Operating-System: Linux morgoth 2.6.5-gentoo-r1 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Apparently, the available documentation on Limbo is hopelessly out of date... Reading Section 11.1 of Ritchie's TLPL gives some rules for determining what sorts of forward references are allowed, but looking at some of the available Inferno code and header files shows many violations of these rules. What's the actual rule for forward referencing right now? From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Fri May 21 11:20:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Fri May 21 11:20:27 BST 2004 Received: from vimp2.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.91]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1BR73K-0006nZ-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 21 May 2004 11:14:58 +0100 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp2.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1BR73F-0004yT-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 21 May 2004 11:14:53 +0100 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1BR73F-0005hP-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 21 May 2004 11:14:53 +0100 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4LAEqsm011773 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 11:14:52 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] limbo polymorphism From: Jon Blower To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <295dc06e2e33edcc0358016e908c9bea@terzarima.net> References: <295dc06e2e33edcc0358016e908c9bea@terzarima.net> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1085134492.4661.52.camel@marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:14:52 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanner: exiscan *1BR73F-0004yT-00*WXP5.IrQHyc* (The University of Reading) On Fri, 2004-05-21 at 10:31, Charles Forsyth wrote: > i'm not sure how `templates' relate to classical parametric polymorphism. > there must be some difference, otherwise why give them a different name? This confused me in the original post. I think what's been implemented here is not polymorphism in the OO sense, but is closer to templates in C++. For example, if we have two classes which derive from an abstract superclass like "Shape" in, say, Java, they could both have a getArea() method: Triangle t = new Triangle(); Circle c = new Circle(); double triArea = t.getArea(); double circArea = c.getArea(); these are polymorphic functions because they have the same name. A templated function is different - it allows you to pass different types of parameters into a function. For example, in C++, you could have template T Max(T t1, T t2) { return (t1 > t2) ? t1 : t2; } Which would get the maximum of two values of any type (including value types and primitives). This saves you having to declare: double Max (double d1, double d2); int Max (int d1, int d2); etc etc. I guess the practice of giving functions the same name but different parameter lists is also a form of polymorphism, but not in the OO sense. (In this case, you could have two functions with the same name but different _numbers_ of parameters - they might be "polymorphic" in this sense, but could not be implemented with templates or the Inferno model that was described.) Cheers, Jon -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From forsyth Fri May 21 11:21:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:21:52 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] forward references In-Reply-To: <20040521094316.GA31793@imperium.ph> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-iqqbykxfzazibpclqhadzbsdab" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-iqqbykxfzazibpclqhadzbsdab Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit essentially all module-level names are visible throughout the module; i think that has been true as long as i've used it. --upas-iqqbykxfzazibpclqhadzbsdab Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from gateway.imperium.ph ([202.175.240.154]) by doppio; Fri May 21 10:48:55 BST 2004 Received: from morgoth (morgoth.imperium.ph [192.168.1.35]) by gateway.imperium.ph (Postfix) with SMTP id 8C4B946CA2 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:47:18 +0800 (PHT) Received: by morgoth (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 21 May 2004 17:43:16 +0800 From: dido@imperium.ph Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:43:16 +0800 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-ID: <20040521094316.GA31793@imperium.ph> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Operating-System: Linux morgoth 2.6.5-gentoo-r1 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Subject: [inferno-list] forward references Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Apparently, the available documentation on Limbo is hopelessly out of date... Reading Section 11.1 of Ritchie's TLPL gives some rules for determining what sorts of forward references are allowed, but looking at some of the available Inferno code and header files shows many violations of these rules. What's the actual rule for forward referencing right now? --upas-iqqbykxfzazibpclqhadzbsdab-- From allianz-suisse.ch!patrick.baur Fri May 21 12:19:22 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from chzhgaz13.allianz-suisse.ch ([193.8.109.35]) by doppio; Fri May 21 12:19:22 BST 2004 Subject: ODBC To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.11 July 24, 2002 Message-ID: From: patrick.baur@allianz-suisse.ch Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:55:54 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on CHZHGAZ13/SRV/AZ_GRP(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 21.05.2004 13:13:53 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi: I tried compiling /tools/odbc for MacOSX, It compiled after some twiddling, but it fails to work: I get a permission denied when trying to read .../sources from within odbcmnt. My first thought was some problem with MacOSX's ODBC (in the line that it doesn't find the available data sources), so I switched to the NT-variant of Inferno, where odbc worked. However, it's only /Nt/386/bin/odbc.exe that works, when compiling from /tools/odbc, I get the same problem under NT, too... So: Does anybody know where /Nt/386/bin/odbc.exe comes from, i.e. where I can find the corresponding sources? Best regards, Patrick. This message possibly contains confidential data or items of information. It is intended solely for the rightful recipient. If you should have received the message wrongfully, it is not permitted to disclose the e-mail message or its contents to third parties, to copy or use it. We would respectfully request you to destroy the message with the exclusion of any reproduction and to notify this to the originator by e-mail. Thank you very much. From rog Fri May 21 14:28:37 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] limbo polymorphism Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:28:37 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <1085134492.4661.52.camel@marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I guess the practice of giving functions the same name but different > parameter lists is also a form of polymorphism, but not in the OO > sense. there's quite a nice explanation of the different kinds of polymorphism in section 1 of this document: http://research.microsoft.com/Users/luca/Papers/OnUnderstanding.A4.pdf it's good reading. From 9netics.com!9nut Fri May 21 15:17:06 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plan9.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by doppio; Fri May 21 15:17:06 BST 2004 Message-ID: <9c310a55b164449b51f34a758e9e080f@9netics.com> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Use Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:12:27 -0700 From: 9nut@9netics.com In-Reply-To: <0c0c8cb27c0fa4bb40f1ade84eead1ad@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > roger has been looking at interfaces to Web Services. > he seems a good choice because he is used to climbing mountains. Roger has climbed Everest?!! From rog Fri May 21 15:30:08 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Use Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:30:08 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <9c310a55b164449b51f34a758e9e080f@9netics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Roger has climbed Everest?!! no, and i didn't manage to get my web services stuff going either! From 9netics.com!9nut Fri May 21 15:48:05 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plan9.9netics.com ([64.91.109.37]) by doppio; Fri May 21 15:48:05 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] limbo polymorphism Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:43:28 -0700 From: 9nut@9netics.com In-Reply-To: <295dc06e2e33edcc0358016e908c9bea@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > that i began to feel there was a variant of type Dynamic (which i wanted anyway) > that might work sensibly. Is "ref any" coming back? From rog Fri May 21 16:01:49 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] limbo polymorphism Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:01:49 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > that i began to feel there was a variant of type Dynamic (which i wanted anyway) > > that might work sensibly. > > Is "ref any" coming back? i don't think so (it's too unstructured, and not statically type safe), although type Dynamic would give you something along the same kind of lines. From forsyth Fri May 21 18:11:42 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ODBC From: C H Forsyth Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:11:42 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's curious because the .exe was rebuilt in february from that source, there being no obvious other, and the odbc.c source hasn't changed since June last year. i'll get someone to have a look at it. now i've got a Mac ... we can perhaps try that too. is ODBC support always included on MacOSX? From corpus-callosum.com!jas Fri May 21 19:03:43 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from gate.corpus-callosum.com ([216.36.98.130]) by doppio; Fri May 21 19:03:43 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.8] (codex [10.0.1.8]) by gate.corpus-callosum.com (8.12.6/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i4LHwCT9080353 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 12:58:12 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jas@corpus-callosum.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <89bdc6ec8167b377675fb39660f046d9@vitanuova.com> References: <89bdc6ec8167b377675fb39660f046d9@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <6A07A7EA-AB50-11D8-AC26-003065E1714E@corpus-callosum.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jeff Sickel Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ODBC Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:58:07 -0500 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) On May 21, 2004, at 12:11 PM, C H Forsyth wrote: > > now i've got a Mac ... we can perhaps try that too. > is ODBC support always included on MacOSX? Finally, I can get back to billable work (well, if possible in the .us tech market) instead of interesting hobbies. Does this mean the JIT will be completed in the near future? ODBC is included w/ MacOSX but like many things takes some configuration to get working. Use /Applications/ODBC Administrator.app to setup any configurations you might have access to. I did have the ODBC version working on the third edition - was it ever slow. I've not tried the to do anything with it on the fourth edition. Looking at it, what worked was tools/db/infdb.c. jas From dplanet.ch!pbaur Fri May 21 21:36:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from carmel.ch ([217.162.139.238]) by doppio; Fri May 21 21:36:20 BST 2004 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carmel.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF4D1D2B67 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 22:00:41 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <3b511624ab558b3dbe3d93e1527f8a99@vitanuova.com> References: <3b511624ab558b3dbe3d93e1527f8a99@vitanuova.com> X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <895648B0-AB61-11D8-A964-000A958D75CE@dplanet.ch> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Patrick Baur Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ODBC Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 22:00:41 +0200 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) After some digging around --- which reminds me on how nice it would be to have venti --- I found a working windows client in the 3rd edition (2003-06-14), also in /tools/odbc. This would fit with your comment on the last change done to odbc.c. It works well under windows, but is also VERY windows specific. I'll try to figure out where the problem sneaked in, now that I know it's not due to some Mac ODBC issue but rather to the very program. Yes, MacOSX comes with ODBC, if you want to say so. The point is, that you get ODBC admin and libraries, but neither do you get any ODBC compliant DB nor any drivers by default. I'm currently using Sybase ASE, another option would probably be MyODBC to MySQL, which I haven't tried. Drivers are still a rather annoying issue anyway, as they are hard to find, even drivers to major commercial DBs. Hopefully, this is going to change some day. But there still seems to be quite a bit of uncertainty regarding MacOSX as a commercial product. Oracle, as an example, started with a Developer Preview to Oracle 9 on MacOSX, but nothing followed. Now they are at release 10, and no word on MacOSX anymore... That you got a Mac is good news, as of course I'm eager to finally see it on pair with the other platforms (jit, libraries and utils) :-) On 21.05.2004, at 19:11, C H Forsyth wrote: > it's curious because the .exe was rebuilt in february from that source, > there being no obvious other, > and the odbc.c source hasn't changed since June last year. > i'll get someone to have a look at it. > > now i've got a Mac ... we can perhaps try that too. > is ODBC support always included on MacOSX? > From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri May 21 21:59:47 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri May 21 21:59:47 BST 2004 Message-ID: <5f54a28f4b0e1949b87fceb726faf424@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ODBC From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:53:23 +0100 In-Reply-To: <895648B0-AB61-11D8-A964-000A958D75CE@dplanet.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>That you got a Mac is good news, as of course I'm eager to finally see >>it on pair with the other platforms (jit, libraries and utils) :-) yes, i'm keen for that to happen for many reasons. it's a reasonably popular platform, and should be supported. (amongst other things it allows people to cycle-steal from Mac users using the inferno grid software, when the machines are not alpha blending.) its build-from-scratch is already in my build script with the others, which is an improvement already. execnet came to the rescue when i found i couldn't su on the mac in the office from home, so pumping the files across using u9fs is also done. From dplanet.ch!pbaur Sat May 22 01:05:17 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from carmel.ch ([217.162.139.238]) by doppio; Sat May 22 01:05:17 BST 2004 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carmel.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18C691D3634 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 01:59:47 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <5f54a28f4b0e1949b87fceb726faf424@terzarima.net> References: <5f54a28f4b0e1949b87fceb726faf424@terzarima.net> X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Patrick Baur Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ODBC - surprise! Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 01:59:46 +0200 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) As I already said in my initial mail: I expected anything being wrong when getting the Eperm --- except that it REALLY is due to lack of permission! But that's just what happened: "sources" is created with permissions 0660, but hardwired to the user "inferno"... Changing the creation perms makes the world look right again! Yes, actually one should implement authentication... On 21.05.2004, at 22:53, Charles Forsyth wrote: > yes, i'm keen for that to happen for many reasons. > it's a reasonably popular platform, and should be supported. > (amongst other things it allows people to cycle-steal from Mac users > using the inferno grid software, when the machines are not alpha > blending.) > its build-from-scratch is already in my build script with the > others, which is an improvement already. > execnet came to the rescue when i found i couldn't su on the mac in > the office from home, so pumping the files across using u9fs is also > done. > Glad to hear this! And yes, admittedly everything is a bit different on the Mac... But I still consider its comfort, versatility and stability to be worth the additional effort! From suspicious.org!suspect Sat May 22 01:12:26 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Sat May 22 01:12:26 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.77.244] (unknown [128.2.77.244]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 974E886; Fri, 21 May 2004 20:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org Subject: inconsistent module definitions and explicit qualification Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:07:05 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) diff ~/inferno20030331/module/wmsrv.m wmsrv.m 13,14c13,14 < r: Rect; < img: ref Image; --- > r: Draw->Rect; > img: ref Draw->Image; Other .m's with things like this include /module/dividers.m, /module/winplace.m cheers, From terra.com.br!pih Sun May 23 12:29:15 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from leticia.terra.com.br ([200.154.55.226]) by doppio; Sun May 23 12:29:15 BST 2004 Received: from talara.terra.com.br (talara.terra.com.br [200.154.55.136]) by leticia.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id C95293C212 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 08:23:43 -0300 (BRT) Received: from [10.1.1.10] (200-101-241-115.jvece7001.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [200.101.241.115]) (authenticated user pih) by talara.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id F25EA3C006 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 08:23:42 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <40B088CC.8000806@terra.com.br> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:19:40 -0300 From: felipe albrecht User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040502) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: inferno and fedora core 2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello. I tried install inferno in my linux machine. (Fedora Core 2, Linux version 2.6.5-1.358). The install program dont work correctly. I was downloaded and uncompress all files in :"/extras/inferno_install" and run: "sh /extras/inferno_install/install/Linux-386.sh /extras/inferno . The program dont go ahead, they copy the LICENCE file and dont do nothing more... I was waited 20 minutes. When I do "ctrl + c" this is showed: /extras/inferno_install/install/Linux-386.sh: line 27: 2038 Morto $CDPATH/$EMUPATH/emu -c1 -G -r$CDPATH /dis/install/install.dis -r $1 -p Linux I rebooted my machine and used the old kernel, 2.4.25 compiled by myself using the 'default' linux kernel source. The install program works fine and inferno also! But, when I rebooted again and uses the 2.6.5 kernel, inferno dont work. :-( DIS run, but dont do anything (or that I can note). Concluding, I think that inferno, or better, DIS VM dont works fine with fedora core 2's kernel (2.6.5) and I need compile DIS in my machine using the modified fedora's kernel source. And my question, how I compile DIS in the linux machine ? Exist some info, web page, wiki ... saying about it ? Thanks in advance, and sorry for my poor english or/and if this is a 'stupid question'. Felipe Albrecht pih@terra.com.br Blumenau - Santa Catarina - Brasil From imperium.ph!dido Sun May 23 15:21:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from gateway.imperium.ph ([202.175.240.154]) by doppio; Sun May 23 15:21:52 BST 2004 Received: from morgoth (morgoth.imperium.ph [192.168.1.35]) by gateway.imperium.ph (Postfix) with SMTP id 13BFB46CA2 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:20:00 +0800 (PHT) Received: by morgoth (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sun, 23 May 2004 22:15:58 +0800 From: dido@imperium.ph Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 22:15:58 +0800 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] forward references Message-ID: <20040523141558.GA3298@imperium.ph> References: <20040521094316.GA31793@imperium.ph> <23ff0411faba59bb4b8eb3d75fbaf4b1@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <23ff0411faba59bb4b8eb3d75fbaf4b1@vitanuova.com> X-Operating-System: Linux morgoth 2.6.5-gentoo-r1 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i On Fri, May 21, 2004 at 11:21:52AM +0100, C H Forsyth wrote: > essentially all module-level names are visible > throughout the module; i think that has been true as long > as i've used it. Well, it would seem that intra-module forward references are not the only legal ones. For instance, it seems to be possible to include draw.m before including sys.m, even though module Draw uses a ref Sys->FD at least twice in Inferno 3E, and this does not result in any error. That seems to indicate that inter-module forward references are allowed, although none of the Limbo docs say that this is legal, in fact TLPL says quite the opposite. From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon May 24 09:25:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon May 24 09:25:20 BST 2004 Message-ID: <7079f1cbb1065b21644cd706eaefb35c@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] forward references From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:23:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040523141558.GA3298@imperium.ph> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-nmomihlelsmyejllnlsfuveznc" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-nmomihlelsmyejllnlsfuveznc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sorry, i did not intend to restrict the sense of `module-level' to just `intra'. of course, it is something you'd like to know sooner rather than later because the semantics is simpler but the processing more complicated (or at least, more complicated if you didn't know about it soon enough during design). it is practically necessary for examples such as those you've given, and at least one language i know without it has great difficulty expressing some things without it! --upas-nmomihlelsmyejllnlsfuveznc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Sun May 23 15:19:56 BST 2004 Received: from gateway.imperium.ph ([202.175.240.154]) by doppio; Sun May 23 15:21:52 BST 2004 Received: from morgoth (morgoth.imperium.ph [192.168.1.35]) by gateway.imperium.ph (Postfix) with SMTP id 13BFB46CA2 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 22:20:00 +0800 (PHT) Received: by morgoth (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sun, 23 May 2004 22:15:58 +0800 From: dido@imperium.ph Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 22:15:58 +0800 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-ID: <20040523141558.GA3298@imperium.ph> References: <20040521094316.GA31793@imperium.ph> <23ff0411faba59bb4b8eb3d75fbaf4b1@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <23ff0411faba59bb4b8eb3d75fbaf4b1@vitanuova.com> X-Operating-System: Linux morgoth 2.6.5-gentoo-r1 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Subject: Re: [inferno-list] forward references Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, May 21, 2004 at 11:21:52AM +0100, C H Forsyth wrote: > essentially all module-level names are visible > throughout the module; i think that has been true as long > as i've used it. Well, it would seem that intra-module forward references are not the only legal ones. For instance, it seems to be possible to include draw.m before including sys.m, even though module Draw uses a ref Sys->FD at least twice in Inferno 3E, and this does not result in any error. That seems to indicate that inter-module forward references are allowed, although none of the Limbo docs say that this is legal, in fact TLPL says quite the opposite. --upas-nmomihlelsmyejllnlsfuveznc-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon May 24 09:52:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon May 24 09:52:28 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno and fedora core 2 From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:50:16 +0100 In-Reply-To: <40B088CC.8000806@terra.com.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i've got several 2.6 distributions at the moment, and one possible distribution, all of which come on DVDs, with a full range of incomprehensible installation instructions, but none is Fedora. there is one, Knoppix i think, that supposedly boots directly, but it didn't work on the two different machines i tried. thus, i've no idea yet what they've done in Fedora to make old executables incompatible, if that's what has happened. perhaps there is some optional compatibility option needed during Linux installation. i don't know. the FreeBSD rfork saga was depressing enough. perhaps Linux's clone has changed again to save even more TLB entries. more seriously, i'd have said clone, or more precisely __clone, was the most unusual call we use. after that, SIGUSRn and sigprocmask/sigsuspend. X11 is unlikely to be involved at the installation stage, so that eliminates one big variable. installation should print things within a matter of seconds, which might speed up deciding whether it works, compared to waiting 20 minutes. most helpfully, if you've got the system unpacked using 2.4.x, try cd /extras/inferno/emu/Linux mk clean mk install and let me know what happens. i'd perhaps have done installation rather differently if i'd realised that systems were going to fork up so much, or indeed if *ix could settle on one package format. then again, i did look at one of them and after pages and pages of stuff, some of it apparently unfinished, i decided the packaging subsystem was probably bigger than the whole of Inferno. i'll look again next pass through. From imperium.ph!dido Mon May 24 16:33:35 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from gateway.imperium.ph ([202.175.240.154]) by doppio; Mon May 24 16:33:35 BST 2004 Received: from morgoth (morgoth.imperium.ph [192.168.1.35]) by gateway.imperium.ph (Postfix) with SMTP id 9382846CA6 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 23:31:35 +0800 (PHT) Received: by morgoth (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 24 May 2004 23:27:34 +0800 From: dido@imperium.ph Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 23:27:34 +0800 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno and fedora core 2 Message-ID: <20040524152734.GA20987@imperium.ph> References: <40B088CC.8000806@terra.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Linux morgoth 2.6.5-gentoo-r1 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i On Mon, May 24, 2004 at 09:50:16AM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > i've got several 2.6 distributions at the moment, and one possible > distribution, all of which come on DVDs, with a full range of > incomprehensible installation instructions, but none is Fedora. there > is one, Knoppix i think, that supposedly boots directly, but it didn't > work on the two different machines i tried. > I've just recently upgraded my Gentoo box to kernel 2.6.5, and Inferno still seems to run just fine. But then I'm using the SuSE binary. > thus, i've no idea yet what they've done in Fedora to make old > executables incompatible, if that's what has happened. perhaps > there is some optional compatibility option needed during Linux > installation. i don't know. the FreeBSD rfork saga was depressing > enough. perhaps Linux's clone has changed again to save even more TLB > entries. more seriously, i'd have said clone, or more precisely > __clone, was the most unusual call we use. after that, SIGUSRn and > sigprocmask/sigsuspend. > It could also be a glibc problem, but then again on Gentoo, I've been upgrading glibc like mad and never experienced any problems with Inferno in the interim. I've even been using the bleeding-edge glibc 2.3.3 versions ever since I started experimenting with Inferno and never did run into trouble. Another possibility is the fact that Red Hat has, for the longest time, been shipping binaries compiled with the infamous gcc 2.96, an unofficial version that tends to produce binaries that are incompatible with all other gcc versions before and since. I think this is also the reason why there's a SuSE-compatible emu binary. The Red Hat binary never did work with Gentoo. I think Red Hat finally decided to shift from using that brain-damaged version of gcc to one of the official gcc releases with Fedora Core 2. From suspicious.org!suspect Mon May 24 17:04:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Mon May 24 17:04:27 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.77.244] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.77.244]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5FF2A0; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <4245F6AC-AD9B-11D8-91F5-000A95C53D8A@suspicious.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org Subject: /appl/lib/readdir.b Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:58:55 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) readall() may be called without calling init(), (e.g. /appl/svc/httpd/httpd.b) so it should load sys. readdir->init() is a bit of a misnomer. file: infernoR4/appl/lib/readdir.b diff -rVN033104 readdir.b 19a20 > sys = load Sys Sys->PATH; cheers, From suspicious.org!suspect Tue May 25 01:06:09 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Tue May 25 01:06:09 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.77.244] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.77.244]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F69D86; Mon, 24 May 2004 20:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <8D5D422F-ADDE-11D8-806C-000A95C53D8A@suspicious.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org Subject: /appl/mux/ Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:00:37 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) whatever happened to /appl/mux ? /dis/mux/*.dis still linger though. cheers, From terra.com.br!pih Tue May 25 02:43:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ibague.terra.com.br ([200.154.55.225]) by doppio; Tue May 25 02:43:45 BST 2004 Received: from merida.terra.com.br (merida.terra.com.br [200.154.55.132]) by ibague.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B8C2EC551 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 22:38:13 -0300 (BRT) Received: from [10.1.1.10] (200-101-241-115.jvece7001.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [200.101.241.115]) (authenticated user pih) by merida.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98693C061 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 22:38:12 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <40B2A28A.7010001@terra.com.br> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:34:02 -0300 From: felipe albrecht User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040502) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno and fedora core 2 References: <40B088CC.8000806@terra.com.br> <20040524152734.GA20987@imperium.ph> In-Reply-To: <20040524152734.GA20987@imperium.ph> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks, for now , i'll try the suse binaries. dido@imperium.ph wrote: >On Mon, May 24, 2004 at 09:50:16AM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > >>i've got several 2.6 distributions at the moment, and one possible >>distribution, all of which come on DVDs, with a full range of >>incomprehensible installation instructions, but none is Fedora. there >>is one, Knoppix i think, that supposedly boots directly, but it didn't >>work on the two different machines i tried. >> >> >> > >I've just recently upgraded my Gentoo box to kernel 2.6.5, and Inferno >still seems to run just fine. But then I'm using the SuSE binary. > > > >>thus, i've no idea yet what they've done in Fedora to make old >>executables incompatible, if that's what has happened. perhaps >>there is some optional compatibility option needed during Linux >>installation. i don't know. the FreeBSD rfork saga was depressing >>enough. perhaps Linux's clone has changed again to save even more TLB >>entries. more seriously, i'd have said clone, or more precisely >>__clone, was the most unusual call we use. after that, SIGUSRn and >>sigprocmask/sigsuspend. >> >> >> > >It could also be a glibc problem, but then again on Gentoo, I've been >upgrading glibc like mad and never experienced any problems with >Inferno in the interim. I've even been using the bleeding-edge glibc >2.3.3 versions ever since I started experimenting with Inferno and never >did run into trouble. > >Another possibility is the fact that Red Hat has, for the longest time, >been shipping binaries compiled with the infamous gcc 2.96, an >unofficial version that tends to produce binaries that are incompatible >with all other gcc versions before and since. I think this is also the >reason why there's a SuSE-compatible emu binary. The Red Hat binary >never did work with Gentoo. I think Red Hat finally decided to shift >from using that brain-damaged version of gcc to one of the official gcc >releases with Fedora Core 2. > > > > > From terra.com.br!pih Tue May 25 03:09:09 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from leticia.terra.com.br ([200.154.55.226]) by doppio; Tue May 25 03:09:09 BST 2004 Received: from pasto.terra.com.br (pasto.terra.com.br [200.154.55.137]) by leticia.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id A83F03CA89 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 23:03:37 -0300 (BRT) Received: from [10.1.1.10] (200-101-241-115.jvece7001.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [200.101.241.115]) (authenticated user pih) by pasto.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B6F23C00D for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 23:03:37 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <40B2A880.1060100@terra.com.br> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:59:28 -0300 From: felipe albrecht User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040502) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno and fedora core 2 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I compiled emu in my machine with 2.4 kernel and all (inferno) runs ok. With 2.6 machine, the emu dont execute correctly. How I can debug the emu to view where exactly is the problema. Thanks. Charles Forsyth wrote: >i've got several 2.6 distributions at the moment, and one possible distribution, >all of which come on DVDs, with a full range of incomprehensible installation instructions, >but none is Fedora. there is one, Knoppix i think, that supposedly boots directly, but >it didn't work on the two different machines i tried. > >thus, i've no idea yet what they've done in Fedora to make old executables >incompatible, if that's what has happened. perhaps there is some optional compatibility option >needed during Linux installation. i don't know. the FreeBSD rfork saga was depressing enough. >perhaps Linux's clone has changed again to save even more TLB entries. >more seriously, i'd have said clone, or more precisely __clone, >was the most unusual call we use. >after that, SIGUSRn and sigprocmask/sigsuspend. > >X11 is unlikely to be involved at the installation stage, so that eliminates one >big variable. > >installation should print things within a matter of seconds, which might speed up >deciding whether it works, compared to waiting 20 minutes. > >most helpfully, if you've got the system unpacked using 2.4.x, try > cd /extras/inferno/emu/Linux > mk clean > mk install >and let me know what happens. > >i'd perhaps have done installation rather differently if i'd realised that >systems were going to fork up so much, or indeed if *ix could settle >on one package format. then again, i did look at one of them and >after pages and pages of stuff, some of it apparently unfinished, >i decided the packaging subsystem >was probably bigger than the whole of Inferno. >i'll look again next pass through. > > > > > From forsyth Tue May 25 12:36:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:36:27 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno and fedora core 2 In-Reply-To: <40B2A880.1060100@terra.com.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>With 2.6 machine, the emu dont execute correctly. i couldn't tell from your message: did you recompile emu under 2.6 as well, or only under 2.4? From terra.com.br!pih Tue May 25 20:36:09 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from loncoche.terra.com.br ([200.154.55.229]) by doppio; Tue May 25 20:36:09 BST 2004 Received: from merida.terra.com.br (merida.terra.com.br [200.154.55.132]) by loncoche.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98666E783C3 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:09:50 -0300 (BRT) Received: from [10.1.1.10] (200-101-241-115.jvece7001.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [200.101.241.115]) (authenticated user pih) by merida.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF0063C098 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:09:47 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <40B398FB.4090801@terra.com.br> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:05:31 -0300 From: felipe albrecht User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040502) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno and fedora core 2 References: <2685216108f4a660d3cd5dd8f9e3e930@vitanuova.com> In-Reply-To: <2685216108f4a660d3cd5dd8f9e3e930@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit C H Forsyth wrote: >>>With 2.6 machine, the emu dont execute correctly. >>> >>> > >i couldn't tell from your message: did you recompile emu >under 2.6 as well, or only under 2.4? > > > > Under boths. And, what are the major diference in 'emu-suse' ? From terzarima.net!forsyth Tue May 25 21:06:57 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Tue May 25 21:06:57 BST 2004 Message-ID: <84045252562ee0e6ef0483c33fc1de09@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno and fedora core 2 From: Charles Forsyth Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:00:57 +0100 In-Reply-To: <40B398FB.4090801@terra.com.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-sfuivvebugdwycezkfzgddziua" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-sfuivvebugdwycezkfzgddziua Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit emu-suse was simply compiled under Suse 9.something instead of Redhat 9.1 or 9.2; that was the only difference! that was enough to have the same binary work on older Debian systems. i started to fetch the Fedora images today but since they aren't compressed, and the mirror i used doesn't compress them on fetch, the fetching continues ... --upas-sfuivvebugdwycezkfzgddziua Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Tue May 25 20:39:58 BST 2004 Received: from loncoche.terra.com.br ([200.154.55.229]) by doppio; Tue May 25 20:36:09 BST 2004 Received: from merida.terra.com.br (merida.terra.com.br [200.154.55.132]) by loncoche.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98666E783C3 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:09:50 -0300 (BRT) Received: from [10.1.1.10] (200-101-241-115.jvece7001.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [200.101.241.115]) (authenticated user pih) by merida.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF0063C098 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 16:09:47 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <40B398FB.4090801@terra.com.br> Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:05:31 -0300 From: felipe albrecht User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040502) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: <2685216108f4a660d3cd5dd8f9e3e930@vitanuova.com> In-Reply-To: <2685216108f4a660d3cd5dd8f9e3e930@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno and fedora core 2 Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk C H Forsyth wrote: >>>With 2.6 machine, the emu dont execute correctly. >>> >>> > >i couldn't tell from your message: did you recompile emu >under 2.6 as well, or only under 2.4? > > > > Under boths. And, what are the major diference in 'emu-suse' ? --upas-sfuivvebugdwycezkfzgddziua-- From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Wed May 26 00:33:31 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Wed May 26 00:33:31 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 25 May 2004 16:27:58 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 25 May 2004 16:27:58 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:27:56 -0700 References: AAAHshBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040525T162756Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Next update? To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2004 23:27:58.0704 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA12FF00:01C442AF] I don't mean to be too pushy or anything, but is there another prelim. = public release scheduled anytime soon? 20040331 is still the current one = available from vitanuova.com... Any word on when it will be an actual = release, and no longer "preliminary"? Thanks much! -Ben From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed May 26 08:46:14 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed May 26 08:46:14 BST 2004 Message-ID: <144b7565dc64c6cd1fee156e23addf88@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Next update? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:40:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040525T162756Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wnpufttxtkjvwjlxbtkjvzqeed" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wnpufttxtkjvwjlxbtkjvzqeed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i've been building a new set of packages this week. --upas-wnpufttxtkjvwjlxbtkjvzqeed Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Wed May 26 00:30:16 BST 2004 Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Wed May 26 00:33:31 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 25 May 2004 16:27:58 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 25 May 2004 16:27:58 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:27:56 -0700 References: AAAHshBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040525T162756Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2004 23:27:58.0704 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA12FF00:01C442AF] Subject: [inferno-list] Next update? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk I don't mean to be too pushy or anything, but is there another prelim. = public release scheduled anytime soon? 20040331 is still the current one = available from vitanuova.com... Any word on when it will be an actual = release, and no longer "preliminary"? Thanks much! -Ben --upas-wnpufttxtkjvwjlxbtkjvzqeed-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed May 26 08:55:44 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed May 26 08:55:44 BST 2004 Message-ID: <7b55f8ae149365dd6b29b13293e11d29@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno and fedora core 2 From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:49:37 +0100 In-Reply-To: <84045252562ee0e6ef0483c33fc1de09@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>emu-suse was simply compiled under Suse 9.something instead it was actually SuSE 8.1 not 9.something, out of the box are there compressed .iso images for Fedora that i overlooked? From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Wed May 26 17:01:51 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Wed May 26 17:01:51 BST 2004 Received: from vimp2.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.91]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1BT0lQ-00000K-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:56:20 +0100 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp2.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1BT0lJ-0001I9-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:56:13 +0100 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1BT0lI-0004XG-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:56:12 +0100 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4QFuCsm009122 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:56:12 +0100 (BST) Subject: problem with simple Limbo/Tk app From: Jon Blower To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-jEaOm6CNCvpyFMrLEs3Q" Message-Id: <1085586972.20305.23.camel@marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:56:12 +0100 X-Scanner: exiscan *1BT0lJ-0001I9-00*zbijjN5O7As* (The University of Reading) --=-jEaOm6CNCvpyFMrLEs3Q Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I'm trying to create a very simple Limbo/Tk application but am having a bit of trouble. It seems that things have changed a little between Infernos 3 and 4 with respect to this (so my printed manuals are out of date and the web pages haven't been updated for this topic). In particular it seems that the toplevel() function now expects an argument of type Draw->Display instead of Draw->Screen. I tried this example program: http://www.gemusehaken.org/ipwl/sourcecode/book-examples/simple-tk.b, which fails to compile because of this reason. I tried (perhaps naively) changing the call from t := tk->toplevel(ctxt.screen, ""); to t := tk->toplevel(ctxt.display, ""); This compiled but running it produced no visible output. I've tried some other ways of doing it, stolen from various Limbo apps in the distribution, but they don't quite work as expected. The attached file is my latest effort - close but no banana. Running it from a shell window within the window manager produces a little window with a button, as expected - the problem is that I can't click on the button or get the focus to the window! I'm sure I'm missing something obvious. Any advice much appreciated! Jon -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- --=-jEaOm6CNCvpyFMrLEs3Q Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=simple-tk.b Content-Type: text/plain; name=simple-tk.b; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit # # Software from the book "Inferno Programming with Limbo" # published by John Wiley & Sons, January 2003. # # p. Stanley-Marbell # implement SimpleTk; include "sys.m"; include "draw.m"; include "tk.m"; include "tkclient.m"; draw : Draw; sys : Sys; tk : Tk; tkclient : Tkclient; SimpleTk : module { init : fn(ctxt : ref Draw->Context, nil : list of string); }; init(ctxt : ref Draw->Context, nil : list of string) { sys = load Sys Sys->PATH; draw = load Draw Draw->PATH; tk = load Tk Tk->PATH; tkclient = load Tkclient Tkclient->PATH; tkclient->init(); # Create a top level Tk widget: (t, wmctl) := tkclient->toplevel(ctxt, "", "Simple App", Tkclient->Appl); # Create channel on which Tk events will be sent and # associate the channel with the Tk event name 'cmd': cmdchan := chan of string; tk->namechan(t, cmdchan, "cmd"); # Send literal strings to Tk to create a button with the # text 'Push Me'. Pushing it sends the string 'pressed' # on the channel associated with Tk name 'cmd': tk->cmd(t, "button .b -text {Push Me} -command {send cmd pressed}"); tk->cmd(t, "pack .b"); tkclient->settitle(t, "Simple App"); tkclient->onscreen(t, nil); tkclient->startinput(t, "ptr" :: "kbd" :: nil); tk->cmd(t, "update"); # Wait for events on the channel `cmdchan' and service them: for (;;) alt { c := <- cmdchan => { if (c == "pressed") { sys->print("... catch you later!\n"); exit; } } } } --=-jEaOm6CNCvpyFMrLEs3Q-- From rog Wed May 26 17:19:07 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] problem with simple Limbo/Tk app Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:19:07 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <1085586972.20305.23.camel@marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm sure I'm missing something obvious. Any advice much appreciated! you're very nearly there! but, as described in the tkclient(2) man page, you also need to handle the mouse, keyboard, and window-manager events yourself (this was a consequence of the restructuring of the window manager). here's a version that works (i took the liberty of reformatting some of the code into a more conventional style as well). of course, there's no particular reason why all the events have to be handled by the same loop in the same process - there's loads of flexibility here. # # Software from the book "Inferno Programming with Limbo" # published by John Wiley & Sons, January 2003. # # p. Stanley-Marbell # implement SimpleTk; include "sys.m"; include "draw.m"; include "tk.m"; include "tkclient.m"; draw : Draw; sys : Sys; tk : Tk; tkclient : Tkclient; SimpleTk : module { init : fn(ctxt : ref Draw->Context, nil : list of string); }; init(ctxt : ref Draw->Context, nil : list of string) { sys = load Sys Sys->PATH; draw = load Draw Draw->PATH; tk = load Tk Tk->PATH; tkclient = load Tkclient Tkclient->PATH; tkclient->init(); # Create a top level Tk widget: (t, wmctl) := tkclient->toplevel(ctxt, "", "Simple App", Tkclient->Appl); # Create channel on which Tk events will be sent and # associate the channel with the Tk event name 'cmd': cmdchan := chan of string; tk->namechan(t, cmdchan, "cmd"); # Send literal strings to Tk to create a button with the # text 'Push Me'. Pushing it sends the string 'pressed' # on the channel associated with Tk name 'cmd': tk->cmd(t, "button .b -text {Push Me} -command {send cmd pressed}"); tk->cmd(t, "pack .b"); tkclient->settitle(t, "Simple App"); tkclient->onscreen(t, nil); tkclient->startinput(t, "ptr" :: "kbd" :: nil); tk->cmd(t, "update"); # Wait for events on the channel `cmdchan' and service them: for(;;) alt{ c := <-wmctl or c = <-t.ctxt.ctl or c = <-t.wreq => tkclient->wmctl(t, c); p := <-t.ctxt.ptr => tk->pointer(t, *p); c := <-t.ctxt.kbd => tk->keyboard(t, c); c := <- cmdchan => if (c == "pressed"){ sys->print("... catch you later!\n"); exit; } } } From forsyth Wed May 26 17:32:21 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] problem with simple Limbo/Tk app From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:32:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>date and the web pages haven't been updated for this topic). that's true, but the online manual pages are ok. (wm/man) that reminds me to see about having the web pages updated. it's automatic but the person who always triggered the automaton left last year and i didn't give the work to the cron soon enough. for(;;) alt{ c := <-wmctl or c = <-t.ctxt.ctl or c = <-t.wreq => tkclient->wmctl(t, c); this looks oddly fussy-why are three channels necessary?-but there are three possibly independent sources of various control messages: the title bar (if using), Tk for window control requests, and the window manager iself. each therefore gets a channel, but the messages share the same syntax and meaning, and so a single catch-all function can handle them all if the application doesn't need to distinguish them. an alternative might have been to have all use the window manager's channel (t.ctxt.ctl above), which was done in a prototype implementation, but there are potential disadavantages. i'm told. From terra.com.br!pih Wed May 26 17:57:33 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from linares.terra.com.br ([200.154.55.228]) by doppio; Wed May 26 17:57:33 BST 2004 Received: from estero.terra.com.br (estero.terra.com.br [200.154.55.138]) by linares.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 531A9DDC840 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 13:34:10 -0300 (BRT) Received: from [10.1.1.10] (200-101-241-115.jvece7001.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [200.101.241.115]) (authenticated user pih) by estero.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 969473C058 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 13:34:09 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <40B4C5F3.30606@terra.com.br> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:29:39 -0300 From: felipe albrecht User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040502) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno and fedora core 2 References: <7b55f8ae149365dd6b29b13293e11d29@terzarima.net> In-Reply-To: <7b55f8ae149365dd6b29b13293e11d29@terzarima.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles Forsyth wrote: >>>emu-suse was simply compiled under Suse 9.something instead >>> >>> > >it was actually SuSE 8.1 not 9.something, >out of the box > >are there compressed .iso images for Fedora that i overlooked? > > > > > You can download fedora iso at http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/2/i386/iso/ From forsyth Wed May 26 18:20:11 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno and fedora core 2 From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:20:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: <40B4C5F3.30606@terra.com.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i know, but those are uncompressed and most are over 600 mbytes i could understand it when they wanted you to `please buy our box' but now ? From terra.com.br!pih Wed May 26 20:37:34 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from itapoa.terra.com.br ([200.154.55.227]) by doppio; Wed May 26 20:37:34 BST 2004 Received: from estero.terra.com.br (estero.terra.com.br [200.154.55.138]) by itapoa.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id D65E9DD4711 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:14:22 -0300 (BRT) Received: from [10.1.1.10] (200-101-241-115.jvece7001.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [200.101.241.115]) (authenticated user pih) by estero.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F6F03C0FC for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:14:22 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <40B4EB81.1060404@terra.com.br> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:09:53 -0300 From: felipe albrecht User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040502) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno and fedora core 2 References: <32fa17d19876e601f62dc66ae627e68f@vitanuova.com> In-Reply-To: <32fa17d19876e601f62dc66ae627e68f@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit C H Forsyth wrote: >i know, but those are uncompressed and most are over 600 mbytes >i could understand it when they wanted you to `please buy our box' >but now ? > > > > > ok, I understend. But I recorded then I in the 700M's CDs. A important note, I have downloaded suse-emu , 'installed' then and run... and they work ! Why this ? When I compile in this machine, dont work, but the emu-suse work. Why ? From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed May 26 21:31:44 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed May 26 21:31:44 BST 2004 Message-ID: <70a8a5130c4cd99067fdb3033bb6325c@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno and fedora core 2 From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:24:23 +0100 In-Reply-To: <40B4EB81.1060404@terra.com.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>ok, I understend. But I recorded then I in the 700M's CDs. that part is fine, but i wanted to reduce the download time on a Mbit line! From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Thu May 27 20:38:43 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Thu May 27 20:38:43 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 27 May 2004 12:33:10 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 27 May 2004 12:33:10 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 12:33:05 -0700 References: AAQcshBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040527T123305Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 May 2004 19:33:10.0297 (UTC) FILETIME=[718E3090:01C44421] I installed a fresh copy of the 20040331 distribution on my MacOSX = (10.3.3) For the most part, the libraries compile fine, only modifying = lib9 to compile sysfatal.c with -fno-common. Moving on to the utilities, = however, I ran into trouble. libcc won't compile, and errors out saying = "error: confilcting types for `malloc'" likewise, I get the same error for = fuctions `calloc' and `realloc'. Since the compiler tells me the conflict = is in Apple's /usr/include/stdlib.h, I thought I'd be clever and comment = out the declarations in stdlib.h, and just let the ones in the inferno = source files handle it. After the modification, libcc compiled, and I was = able to build all the compilers. However, now when I try to use any of = them, even c2l, they all error out with the message "realloc called. = Abort" To try to fix it, I tried changing the inferno declarations to = match the MacOSX ones, but that doesn't work at all. How did the Corpus = Callosum guys get around this? Anyone have any pointers? Thanks much! -Ben From forsyth Thu May 27 20:46:14 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX From: C H Forsyth Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 20:46:14 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040527T123305Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-oyxhmackrvicxalbzxzspttonb" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-oyxhmackrvicxalbzxzspttonb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit in the version on my Mac (and in our main source tree), those things have been repaired appropriately. i was going to push it out tonight but during testing found a problem on Solaris that i haven't tracked down yet. --upas-oyxhmackrvicxalbzxzspttonb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Thu May 27 20:38:43 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 27 May 2004 12:33:10 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 27 May 2004 12:33:10 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 12:33:05 -0700 References: AAQcshBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040527T123305Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 May 2004 19:33:10.0297 (UTC) FILETIME=[718E3090:01C44421] Subject: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk I installed a fresh copy of the 20040331 distribution on my MacOSX = (10.3.3) For the most part, the libraries compile fine, only modifying = lib9 to compile sysfatal.c with -fno-common. Moving on to the utilities, = however, I ran into trouble. libcc won't compile, and errors out saying = "error: confilcting types for `malloc'" likewise, I get the same error for = fuctions `calloc' and `realloc'. Since the compiler tells me the conflict = is in Apple's /usr/include/stdlib.h, I thought I'd be clever and comment = out the declarations in stdlib.h, and just let the ones in the inferno = source files handle it. After the modification, libcc compiled, and I was = able to build all the compilers. However, now when I try to use any of = them, even c2l, they all error out with the message "realloc called. = Abort" To try to fix it, I tried changing the inferno declarations to = match the MacOSX ones, but that doesn't work at all. How did the Corpus = Callosum guys get around this? Anyone have any pointers? Thanks much! -Ben --upas-oyxhmackrvicxalbzxzspttonb-- From forsyth Thu May 27 20:47:25 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX From: C H Forsyth Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 20:47:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vepxqhlifpjnfkkyxmiionsqwq" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vepxqhlifpjnfkkyxmiionsqwq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if it looks as though there will be a further delay, i'll send you the changes separately. --upas-vepxqhlifpjnfkkyxmiionsqwq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com From: C H Forsyth Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 20:46:14 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040527T123305Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-oyxhmackrvicxalbzxzspttonb" Subject: Re: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-oyxhmackrvicxalbzxzspttonb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit in the version on my Mac (and in our main source tree), those things have been repaired appropriately. i was going to push it out tonight but during testing found a problem on Solaris that i haven't tracked down yet. --upas-oyxhmackrvicxalbzxzspttonb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Thu May 27 20:38:43 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 27 May 2004 12:33:10 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 27 May 2004 12:33:10 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 12:33:05 -0700 References: AAQcshBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040527T123305Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 May 2004 19:33:10.0297 (UTC) FILETIME=[718E3090:01C44421] Subject: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk I installed a fresh copy of the 20040331 distribution on my MacOSX = (10.3.3) For the most part, the libraries compile fine, only modifying = lib9 to compile sysfatal.c with -fno-common. Moving on to the utilities, = however, I ran into trouble. libcc won't compile, and errors out saying = "error: confilcting types for `malloc'" likewise, I get the same error for = fuctions `calloc' and `realloc'. Since the compiler tells me the conflict = is in Apple's /usr/include/stdlib.h, I thought I'd be clever and comment = out the declarations in stdlib.h, and just let the ones in the inferno = source files handle it. After the modification, libcc compiled, and I was = able to build all the compilers. However, now when I try to use any of = them, even c2l, they all error out with the message "realloc called. = Abort" To try to fix it, I tried changing the inferno declarations to = match the MacOSX ones, but that doesn't work at all. How did the Corpus = Callosum guys get around this? Anyone have any pointers? Thanks much! -Ben --upas-oyxhmackrvicxalbzxzspttonb-- --upas-vepxqhlifpjnfkkyxmiionsqwq-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri May 28 01:17:41 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri May 28 01:17:41 BST 2004 Message-ID: <785f272895f10c7246212ab7b737719d@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno and fedora core 2 From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 01:12:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: <40B2A880.1060100@terra.com.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on Solaris, i found it would appear to hang when i compiled after adding unistd.h to lib9.h to ensure function prototypes were `correctly' declared. i also attempt to use 64-bit offsets and sizes for pread, pwrite, stat and others. FreeBSD makes off_t 64 bits. full stop. that works fine. Solaris has a complex system of special #pragmas and #ifdef combinations to select the `right' size for off_t. it looks as though by defining one set of 64-bit definitions in one place but not defining __EXTENSIONS__ caused the wrong prototype to be used. the shell made no progress through /lib/sh/profile. perhaps a similar problem afflicts Fedora 2. From forsyth Fri May 28 23:01:26 BST 2004 remote from doppio subject: new downloads From: C H Forsyth Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:01:26 +0100 To: inferno-list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit there is a new release on http://cgi.www.vitanuova.com/cgi-bin/www.vitanuova.com/download.pl sh-alphabet(1) might be interesting i'll try to do a longer list of changes early next week. Monday is a Bank Holiday. when the banks are shut there is no one to see our overdraft so we all wander off to spend money and enjoy the sun. From yahoo.com.sg!azeez_sy3 Sun May 30 01:37:40 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from coolre4634.com ([213.154.86.124]) by doppio; Sun May 30 01:37:40 BST 2004 To: vitanuova.com!inferno-list From: "Azeez SY" Reply-To: azeez_sy3@yahoo.com.sg Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 02:32:03 +0200 Subject: REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS PARTNER. X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friend=2C First=2C I must apologize if my mode of first contact is not acceptable to you and also solicit your confidence in this transaction=3B this is by virtue of its nature as being utterly private and top secret=2E Though I know that a transaction of this magnitude will make anyone apprehensive and worried=2C but I am assuring you that you do not have anything to worry as I have perfected every arrangement with my colleague =2E I decided to contact you due to the urgency of this transaction=2C as I am aware of the high sense of responsibility placed on you and believe in your discreetness and ability to handle transaction of this nature=2E Let me start by introducing myself properly to you=2E I am MR=2EAZEEZ SY =28the manager of bill and exchange at the foreign remittance department of my Bank=29 =2EI came to know and pick on you in my Private Search for a Reliable and Reputable Person to handle this Confidential Transaction=2C which involves the appropriation and transfer of certain amount of Money to a Foreign Account requiring Maximum Confidence=2E I found your email and contact on the internet in my reliable search for a partner that I will confide with on the great opputunity=2E Please the objective of this letter is to first ascertain your sincerity after your perusal of this proposition=2C reason being I lost a lot of money through a similar transaction in the past being that a trusted partner from Switerland disappeared into tiny air after I transaferred to his custody a huge amount of money=2EAnd I have learnt my lession=2E Please assure me of this in your reply=2E THE PROPOSITION=3A A Foreigner from Bahamas=2C Late Engr=2E Jeff LEON =28Snr=2E=29 a precious stone =28Diamond=29 Merchant with THE UNITA rebel movement of Angola=2C until his death early the year 2000=2C used our services as his fiduciary agent and account trustees and had a closing balance as at the end of September=2C 2000 worth US$7=2C500=2C000=2E00 =28seven million five hundred United States Dollars only=29=2C and secured through our Wahakila banking services=2C our firm now expects a next of kin as beneficiary=2E Valuable efforts are being made by this firm to get in touch with any of the Leon's Family or Relatives but to no success since then=2E It is because of the perceived certainty of not being able to locate any of Late Engr=2E Jeff Leon=28Snr=2E=29's relation=28He had no wife or children that is known to us=29=2E The management under the influence of Our Chairman and few influencial members of the Board of directors=2C has instructed that arrangement be made for the fund to be declared =22Unclaimed=22 and subsequently be donated to yet to be specified trust fund=2EI strongly believe the chairman might be up to something funny with his group=2E In order to avert this development that will not take care of my interest=2C one of my trusted colleague and I who are anticipating interest now seek your permission to have you stand as the next of kin to Late Engr=2E Jeff leon =28Snr=2E=29 so that the fund US$7=2C500=2C000=2E00 =28seven million five hundred United States Dollars only=29=2C will be released and paid into your account as the beneficiary's next of kin=2E All documents and proofs to enable you get this fund will be carefully worked out=2E We have secured from the probate an order of mandamus suspending declaring the money as unclaimed with limited time to locate any of the deceased beneficiary's next of kin=2C and moreso we are assuring you that this business is 100% risk free involvement=2E Your share stays while the rest be for myself and my colleague for investment purposes under your management=2C according to the agreement we shall reach mutually=2E The request of foreigner as next of kin in this business is occasioned by the fact that the customer was a foreigner and a Senegalees cannot stand as next of kin to a foreigner=2E I agree that 35% of this money will be for you as respect to the provision of a foreign account =2C 5% will be set aside for expenses incurred during the business and 60% be for me=2EI will visit your country for disbursement according to the percentage indicated=2E Therefore=2C to enable the immediate transfer of this fund to you as arranged=2C you must apply first to the bank as relation or next of kin of the deceased indicating your bank name=2C your bank account number=2C your private telephone and fax number for easy and effective communication and location where the money will be transfer=2E Upon receipt of your reply=2C I will send to you by fax or email the text of the application=2E I will not fail to bring to your notice that this transaction is hitch-free and that you should not entertain any fear as all required arrangements have been made for the transfer=2E If this proposal is acceptable by you=2C please do not make undue advantage of the trust we are to bestow on you=2E I am expecting your reply=2E Please=2Cyou can reply me directly to my alternate private E-mail with this account upon getting this Email at=3A azeezsy=40sunumail=2Esn Great Thanks=2C Azeez SY=2E From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!www Sun May 30 18:40:00 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Sun May 30 18:40:00 BST 2004 Received: from vimp1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.90]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1BUUCY-0004xq-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Sun, 30 May 2004 18:34:26 +0100 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1BUUCS-0005cY-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Sun, 30 May 2004 18:34:20 +0100 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1BUUCS-0006eb-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Sun, 30 May 2004 18:34:20 +0100 Received: (from www@localhost) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) id i4UHYKGZ017616; Sun, 30 May 2004 18:34:20 +0100 (BST) To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: installing Inferno under Windows XP - solution? Message-ID: <1085938459.40ba1b1bde74e@www.nerc-essc.ac.uk> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:34:19 +0100 (BST) From: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.7 X-Originating-IP: 62.252.32.5 X-Scanner: exiscan *1BUUCS-0005cY-00*3iJhFg89iBU* (The University of Reading) Hi all, A short time ago there was a thread on this list regarding difficulties in installing Inferno under Windows XP - it seems that sometimes installation would fail from a CD that was created by burning a downloaded ISO image in XP. I've come across a solution - use a utility that mounts an ISO image as a virtual CD drive. This way you don't have to burn the CD at all (and has the added bonus of saving 30p on the cost of the CD!) There's a Microsoft utility that does just this, although it's officially unsupported: http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/faq/default.aspx. Search for "Mounting ISO files virtually" in this page to find the download link. I've just tried this with the latest release and it's worked fine (be sure to read the readme for the utility). Hope this helps, Jon -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon May 31 00:20:57 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon May 31 00:20:57 BST 2004 Message-ID: <583947ee1f2a41c1026e72d6ed1a6638@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installing Inferno under Windows XP - solution? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 00:13:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1085938459.40ba1b1bde74e@www.nerc-essc.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>A short time ago there was a thread on this list regarding difficulties in >>installing Inferno under Windows XP - it seems that sometimes installation >>would fail from a CD that was created by burning a downloaded ISO image in XP i still don't understand the problem. when it was last mentioned on the list, i was sure the installation CD worked under XP, but i wasn't certain. for this cd distribution, i took special care to test the CD on XP, and just as important, remember that i had tested the CD on XP. on the other hand, it wouldn't work on one windows 2000 machine in the office. (it claimed the CD wasn't formatted, although several other w2000 machines would accept it.) all the rejecting machines had DVD drives. some of the accepting machines had DVD drives; others had CD drives. no CD drive ever rejected it. at least one DVD drive rejected it at the hardware level. i began to suspect that some DVD drives look for something special on the CD/DVD, and it isn't there on the ones i write. as an alternative, i thought there might be some problem with the physical format (the CD/DVD writer is more recent than all the failing DVD drives). it's a little mystery at the moment. From rutgers.edu!bhancock Mon May 31 00:50:09 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from annwn2.rutgers.edu ([128.6.72.254]) by doppio; Mon May 31 00:50:09 BST 2004 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by annwn2.rutgers.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30840132A for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 19:44:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from annwn2.rutgers.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (annwn2.rutgers.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11818-03 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 19:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tie.rutgers.edu (tie.rutgers.edu [128.6.76.198]) by annwn2.rutgers.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF02131E for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 19:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rutgers.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rulink-mail.rutgers.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.26 (built Mar 31 2004)) with ESMTP id <0HYJ00BKOWM9X7@rulink-mail.rutgers.edu> for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Sun, 30 May 2004 19:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by rulink-mail.rutgers.edu (mshttpd); Sun, 30 May 2004 19:44:33 -0400 Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 19:44:33 -0400 From: "Herbert B. Hancock" Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installing Inferno under Windows XP - solution? To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.26 (built Mar 31 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: Virus Scanned by NBCS Hi Charles, we have a CDROM with the 4th edition which was sent to us via post by VitaNuova. It installs on Windows XP without any problems. We're using 2 IBM IntelliStation M Pro machines with CDROM and DVD drives running the dreadful XP. We installed using the CDROM drives. Perhaps something goes wrong with the download of the ISO image. Also, remember that all writeable CDs are not equal, use a good brand name, we use Kodak Gold and Sony. Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sunday, May 30, 2004 7:13 pm Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installing Inferno under Windows XP - solution? > >>A short time ago there was a thread on this list regarding > difficulties in > >>installing Inferno under Windows XP - it seems that sometimes > installation > >>would fail from a CD that was created by burning a downloaded ISO > image in XP > > i still don't understand the problem. when it was last mentioned > on the list, > i was sure the installation CD worked under XP, but i wasn't certain. > > for this cd distribution, i took special care to test the CD on XP, > and just as important, remember that i had tested the CD on XP. > on the other hand, it wouldn't work on one windows 2000 machine in > the office. > (it claimed the CD wasn't formatted, although several other w2000 > machineswould accept it.) all the rejecting machines had DVD > drives. some of the accepting > machines had DVD drives; others had CD drives. no CD drive ever > rejected it. > at least one DVD drive rejected it at the hardware level. > i began to suspect that some DVD drives look for something special > on the CD/DVD, and it isn't there on the ones i write. > as an alternative, i thought there might be some problem with the > physical format > (the CD/DVD writer is more recent than all the failing DVD drives). > it's a little mystery at the moment. > > From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Mon May 31 01:31:21 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Mon May 31 01:31:21 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 30 May 2004 17:25:47 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 30 May 2004 17:25:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: 30 May 2004 17:25:43 -0700 References: AAg+shBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040530T172543Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installing Inferno under Windows XP - solution? To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 May 2004 00:25:47.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[D1C2F6E0:01C446A5] I also have installed on our custom-built pc under XP several times with = no problems... Win2k (on a different machine) is a different story, = though, but that just might be my setup rather than the OS itself... good = luck! -Ben=20 >>> Herbert B. Hancock 5/30/2004 4:44:33 PM >>> Hi Charles, we have a CDROM with the 4th edition which was sent to us via = post by VitaNuova. It installs on Windows XP without any problems. We're = using 2 IBM IntelliStation M Pro machines with CDROM and DVD drives = running the dreadful XP. We installed using the CDROM drives. Perhaps = something goes wrong with the download of the ISO image. Also, remember = that all writeable CDs are not equal, use a good brand name, we use Kodak Gold and Sony. Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sunday, May 30, 2004 7:13 pm Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installing Inferno under Windows XP - = solution? > >>A short time ago there was a thread on this list regarding=20 > difficulties in=20 > >>installing Inferno under Windows XP - it seems that sometimes=20 > installation=20 > >>would fail from a CD that was created by burning a downloaded ISO=20 > image in XP >=20 > i still don't understand the problem. when it was last mentioned=20 > on the list, > i was sure the installation CD worked under XP, but i wasn't certain. >=20 > for this cd distribution, i took special care to test the CD on XP, > and just as important, remember that i had tested the CD on XP. > on the other hand, it wouldn't work on one windows 2000 machine in=20 > the office. > (it claimed the CD wasn't formatted, although several other w2000=20 > machineswould accept it.) all the rejecting machines had DVD=20 > drives. some of the accepting > machines had DVD drives; others had CD drives. no CD drive ever=20 > rejected it. > at least one DVD drive rejected it at the hardware level. > i began to suspect that some DVD drives look for something special > on the CD/DVD, and it isn't there on the ones i write. > as an alternative, i thought there might be some problem with the=20 > physical format > (the CD/DVD writer is more recent than all the failing DVD drives). > it's a little mystery at the moment. >=20 >=20 From cooper.edu!salomo3 Mon May 31 01:51:29 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wish.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.74]) by doppio; Mon May 31 01:51:29 BST 2004 Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id DB1773939; Sun, 30 May 2004 20:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E2863937 for ; Sun, 30 May 2004 20:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-uive92b.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.36.75]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish.cooper.edu with HTTP; Sun, 30 May 2004 20:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3242.165.247.36.75.1085963502.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> In-Reply-To: <583947ee1f2a41c1026e72d6ed1a6638@terzarima.net> References: <1085938459.40ba1b1bde74e@www.nerc-essc.ac.uk> <583947ee1f2a41c1026e72d6ed1a6638@terzarima.net> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 20:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installing Inferno under Windows XP - solution? From: "Joel Salomon" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-19.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charles Forsyth said: > for this cd distribution, i took special care to test the CD on XP, > and just as important, remember that i had tested the CD on XP. > on the other hand, it wouldn't work on one windows 2000 machine in the > office. > (it claimed the CD wasn't formatted, although several other w2000 machi= nes > would accept it.) all the rejecting machines had DVD drives. some of = the > accepting machines had DVD drives; others had CD drives From what I've seen, it's a problem with winxp's automounting in general. If there's *anything* unusual about the disk (happens at least one time i= n four for me, but I use cheap media) or the way it was burned, mounting takes extra time, windows exploder freezes, etc. I never had any luck with automount daemons under linux/free bsd either..= . --Joel From yahoo.com!tigerphoenixdragon Mon May 31 08:54:41 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from web42101.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.194]) by doppio; Mon May 31 08:54:41 BST 2004 Message-ID: <20040531074907.16431.qmail@web42101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.149.253.247] by web42101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 31 May 2004 00:49:07 PDT Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 00:49:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Stefan Johnson Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installing Inferno under Windows XP - solution? To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was one of the people having problems with the 4th ed ISO image. I downloaded it and checked the md5 sum of the download and it was the same as in then md5s on the site so I unzipped it and burned the image to cd using cdrecord under cygwin on winxp pro. The drive is a DVD/CD-RW. Every image I wrote would install to a certain point then fail to install the rest of the content. I hope this helps since I just saw a few posts about others getting it to work. I got 3rd edition to install but haven't seen a new 4th ed image out on the site yet so haven't tried it again. Hope this helps. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!www Mon May 31 09:23:04 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Mon May 31 09:23:04 BST 2004 Received: from vimp2.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.91]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1BUhz8-0000ng-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:17:30 +0100 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp2.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1BUhz3-0006Kb-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:17:25 +0100 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1BUhz3-0003nO-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:17:25 +0100 Received: (from www@localhost) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) id i4V8HPw7008898; Mon, 31 May 2004 09:17:25 +0100 (BST) To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installing Inferno under Windows XP - solution? Message-ID: <1085991445.40baea151690f@www.nerc-essc.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:17:25 +0100 (BST) From: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk References: <20040531074907.16431.qmail@web42101.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040531074907.16431.qmail@web42101.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.7 X-Originating-IP: 62.252.32.5 X-Scanner: exiscan *1BUhz3-0006Kb-00*EdNLREX1kTM* (The University of Reading) This all seems very odd. It's hard to see where the problem is: 1) The ISO image is fine. I've successfully burned the image under Linux and I've mounted the image as a virtual CD and all has been well. 2) It's not a problem with a bad download - the installation fails even when the MD5 sum is correct. 3) It's probably not the drive type - I've seen reports of failures with burning the CD with a DVD/CD-RW and also a plain CD-RW. 4) It could be the software used to burn the CD - Failures have been reported when using cdrecord under Cygwin/Windows, and the Nero family of utilities, also under Windows. Perhaps there's something inherently funny about burning CDs under Windows XP with certain software? 5) It could be the CD media used (I use cheap media too). 6) It could be a combination of some of the above. In any case, the symptoms seem broadly consistent - the installation gets so far, then fails with a "bad header" message or something like that. In repeated attempts, I've seen the installation fail at *different* points with the *same* CD. I don't understand this at all. For the moment, I can recommend burning the CD under Linux (if possible), or using a utility to mount the ISO image as a virtual CD drive under Windows, as in my previous post. Jon Quoting Stefan Johnson : > I was one of the people having problems with the > 4th ed ISO image. I downloaded it and checked > the md5 sum of the download and it was the same as > in then md5s on the site so I unzipped it and burned > the image to cd using cdrecord under cygwin on winxp > pro. The drive is a DVD/CD-RW. Every image I wrote > would install to a certain point then fail to install > the rest of the content. I hope this helps since I > just saw a few posts about others getting it to work. > > I got 3rd edition to install but haven't seen a new > 4th ed image out on the site yet so haven't tried it > again. > > Hope this helps. > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon May 31 09:41:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon May 31 09:41:36 BST 2004 Message-ID: <70c15fb04e6f2ff919aa9a7f5135b96f@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installing Inferno under Windows XP - solution? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:34:13 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1085991445.40baea151690f@www.nerc-essc.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i have discovered that if running into trouble, setting x2 or even x1 writing speed can help. i actually use x4, which generally works, but i need to set that explicitly. the drives often default to the fastest possible, which seems not to suit all combinations of media and readers. previously i built images with Rock Ridge and Joliet extensions but didn't bother with strict ISO9660 compatibility, since hardly any modern systems cared (they use either Rock Ridge or Joliet names and ignore the other). just because of the reported problems, this time i also enabled strict compatability for the main ISO9660 directories (8+3, monocase, limited character set), just in case some bit of software somewhere checked it before fetching the extended data. From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon May 31 09:51:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon May 31 09:51:45 BST 2004 Message-ID: <16fbb03849cbfa1d74651b8d46a85c28@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installing Inferno under Windows XP - solution? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:44:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040531074907.16431.qmail@web42101.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>haven't seen a new 4th ed image out on the site yet so haven't tried it again. i put a new one up on Friday. i'm gradually rearranging that part of the web site, so that pushing out releases is more automatic. the click-through page will go i think (we can get most download data from logs, and the one missing bit i can get by providing a button to start the process of subscription to the inferno-list). that and a few other changes will make it easier to automate fetching the component packages, rather than having to fuss with the browser if you've got a way of avoiding it. try x1 writing speed if all else fails. the online update system should appear during June, but we might be rearranging our incoming line so i might wait until that's done, to avoid having to get something working twice... once done that will avoid your having to deal with web sites except for the initialising image, and we can also push out changes, bugs and bug fixes more conveniently. From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon May 31 09:57:26 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon May 31 09:57:26 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installing Inferno under Windows XP - solution? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:50:03 +0100 In-Reply-To: <3242.165.247.36.75.1085963502.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> From what I've seen, it's a problem with winxp's automounting in general. i can write a CD that my thinkpad's drive rejects, regardless of operating system. you can hear it buzzing, seeking, for quite a bit, trying to get some sort of grip on the drive -- even if only the BIOS is running. From 9srv.net!a Mon May 31 10:59:56 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Mon May 31 10:59:56 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.2.2] ([81.136.138.178]) by 9srv.net; Mon May 31 05:54:21 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) In-Reply-To: <16fbb03849cbfa1d74651b8d46a85c28@terzarima.net> References: <16fbb03849cbfa1d74651b8d46a85c28@terzarima.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed Message-Id: <78F9A7B4-B2E8-11D8-B589-000A95DA79F6@9srv.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installing Inferno under Windows XP - solution? Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:54:13 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) > i put a new one up on Friday. is this iso image bootable? that'd be *really* nice. some guy from jersey. $B%"(B From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon May 31 11:20:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon May 31 11:20:36 BST 2004 Message-ID: <024745b4b7445cbce92156c28e06102c@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installing Inferno under Windows XP - solution? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 11:13:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: <78F9A7B4-B2E8-11D8-B589-000A95DA79F6@9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qoiuwujvfbdnkfmyozhfbbkffq" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qoiuwujvfbdnkfmyozhfbbkffq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no, although i think i did indeed say last time that it would be. i also thought then that i'd have switched over to the new installation scheme, but in the end i decided that it was more important to get an updated version out now than it was to add more features to the installation process. --upas-qoiuwujvfbdnkfmyozhfbbkffq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Mon May 31 11:03:23 BST 2004 Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Mon May 31 10:59:56 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.2.2] ([81.136.138.178]) by 9srv.net; Mon May 31 05:54:21 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) In-Reply-To: <16fbb03849cbfa1d74651b8d46a85c28@terzarima.net> References: <16fbb03849cbfa1d74651b8d46a85c28@terzarima.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed Message-Id: <78F9A7B4-B2E8-11D8-B589-000A95DA79F6@9srv.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Anthony Sorace Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:54:13 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installing Inferno under Windows XP - solution? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk > i put a new one up on Friday. is this iso image bootable? that'd be *really* nice. some guy from jersey. $B%"(B --upas-qoiuwujvfbdnkfmyozhfbbkffq-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon May 31 11:25:16 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon May 31 11:25:16 BST 2004 Message-ID: <2d8086151b159939bdb2274e2db4d270@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new downloads From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 11:17:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>scheme, but in the end i decided that it was more important to get an updated >>version out now than it was to add more features to the installation process. i am producing a brief list of changes since last time, though! From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon May 31 11:33:15 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon May 31 11:33:15 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installing Inferno under Windows XP - solution? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 11:25:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: <024745b4b7445cbce92156c28e06102c@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's still important to me to switch to the new installation scheme, though, so that will happen. on the CD, that will work off unpacked content, which will make it easier to bootstrap the release onto new hosts or somehow-incompatible versions of supported systems. roger's fs(1) and fslib(2) arrived partway through, which meant i needed to reconsider some of the tool support i had in mind. those led on to sh-alphabet(1), which might well subsume them. as always on the x86, it's the native graphics support that's slowing down bootable CD development. if all it had to do was boot into cga mode, it should be easy. i did bootable CDs years ago for powerpc platforms (with fixed target graphics), and they worked fine, so i think i know what to do. From imperium.ph!dido Mon May 31 12:51:16 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from gateway.imperium.ph ([202.175.240.154]) by doppio; Mon May 31 12:51:16 BST 2004 Received: from morgoth (morgoth.imperium.ph [192.168.1.35]) by gateway.imperium.ph (Postfix) with SMTP id C00A046CA3 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 19:48:29 +0800 (PHT) Received: by morgoth (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 31 May 2004 19:44:29 +0800 From: dido@imperium.ph Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 19:44:29 +0800 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Multiple pick members in an adt Message-ID: <20040531114429.GA11526@imperium.ph> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Operating-System: Linux morgoth 2.6.5-gentoo-r1 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Quoth "The Limbo Programming Language" Section 6.3.1: An adt which contains a pick member is known as a pick adt. A pick adt is Limbo's version of a discriminated union. An adt can only contain one pick member and it must be the last component of the adt. Apparently, as of recent versions of the Limbo compiler, the last sentence is totally false. The compiler will apparently accept multiple pick members in a pick adt, so long as they don't have overlapping pick tags, and it doesn't seem to care if the pick member isn't the last member of the adt. Just as a clarification: such multiple pick members are interpreted as combining their tags, right? I wonder if there will ever be a new edition of "The Limbo Programming Language" that will accurately describe the state of the language as it exists today. The number of demonstrably false statements I've found in that old document is growing as my compiler continues to take shape. From comcast.net!akopa Mon May 31 16:55:39 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.202.64]) by doppio; Mon May 31 16:55:39 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.4] (c-67-167-29-189.client.comcast.net[67.167.29.189]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004053115500501600rhplae>; Mon, 31 May 2004 15:50:05 +0000 Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Multiple pick members in an adt From: Matthew Swank To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <20040531114429.GA11526@imperium.ph> References: <20040531114429.GA11526@imperium.ph> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1086018604.18916.5.camel@kirschwenk> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:50:04 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excuse my ignorance, but is there an Inferno wiki where some of these changes might be more immediately archived? Matt > I wonder if there will ever be a new edition of "The Limbo Programming > Language" that will accurately describe the state of the language as it > exists today. The number of demonstrably false statements I've found in > that old document is growing as my compiler continues to take shape. > From anothy.9srv.net!inferno Mon May 31 19:00:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Mon May 31 19:00:36 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.2.2] ([81.136.138.178]) by 9srv.net; Mon May 31 13:55:01 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <9FBCB2A0-B32B-11D8-9140-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Demo grid access from inferno? Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 18:54:55 +0100 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Is it possible to access the demo grid directly from inferno on my local system, rather than through the browser plug-in (particularly as my browser isn't supported ;-) ? I couldn't find any mention of doing so on the web site. Much thanks, some guy from jersey. $B%"(B From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon May 31 19:09:15 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon May 31 19:09:15 BST 2004 Message-ID: <6b206e89fe96aaa5ff21836a89f13eec@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Demo grid access from inferno? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 19:01:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: <9FBCB2A0-B32B-11D8-9140-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes, for obvious reasons -- inferno inside the plug-in is the same as without -- it can be done. in fact i thought some instructions were somewhere on the web site. i'll find out where they are (or went!). it's possible they were misplaced when the web site was reorganised a few months ago. From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon May 31 19:28:07 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon May 31 19:28:07 BST 2004 Message-ID: <7b211bf6bb972349d466d438a4870876@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Multiple pick members in an adt From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 19:20:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040531114429.GA11526@imperium.ph> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it isn't recent versions of the compiler: it goes back quite some time, which is probably why we haven't noticed. i suspect it's an error to allow it, so it's more likely the compiler will change (it has got a diagnostic for that situation but doesn't deploy it), than the language reference. i need to have it checked, though. From corpus-callosum.com!jas Tue Jun 1 00:41:17 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from gate.corpus-callosum.com ([216.36.98.130]) by doppio; Tue Jun 1 00:41:17 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.8] (codex [10.0.1.8]) by gate.corpus-callosum.com (8.12.6/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i4VNZgT9009445 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 18:35:42 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jas@corpus-callosum.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) In-Reply-To: <6b206e89fe96aaa5ff21836a89f13eec@terzarima.net> References: <6b206e89fe96aaa5ff21836a89f13eec@terzarima.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <3812C3D5-B35B-11D8-B825-003065E1714E@corpus-callosum.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jeff Sickel Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Demo grid access from inferno? Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 18:35:37 -0500 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) % webgrab http://www.vitanuova.com/solutions/grid/resview.sh % sh resview Running the script gives you access to everything that doesn't require some kind of authentication (can't use: Cpu Pool, chat, spree). From ducky.net!mike Wed Jun 2 17:46:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ducky.net ([66.93.167.66]) by doppio; Wed Jun 2 17:46:27 BST 2004 Received: from ducky.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ducky.net (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i52Gep94027589 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 2004 09:40:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@ducky.net) Message-Id: <200406021640.i52Gep94027589@ducky.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: remote display on Mac OS X server has bogus colors Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 09:40:51 -0700 From: Mike Haertel I just tried to run the latest version of Inferno, hosted on my FreeBSD box, and with $DISPLAY pointed to a remote X server running on Mac OS X (the one distributed by Apple for OS X 10.3). The colors on the Mac's X server were all wrong. Has anyone else seen this? Is there an easy fix? From york.ac.uk!as234 Wed Jun 2 18:22:13 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mail-gw1.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.246]) by doppio; Wed Jun 2 18:22:13 BST 2004 Received: from ebor.york.ac.uk (ebor.york.ac.uk [144.32.128.95]) by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i52HGc3Y001965 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 2004 18:16:38 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 18:16:38 +0100 (BST) From: A Shah To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] remote display on Mac OS X server has bogus colors In-Reply-To: <200406021640.i52Gep94027589@ducky.net> Message-ID: References: <200406021640.i52Gep94027589@ducky.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean I noticed that to. It also does the same trick if you xterm to a OS X box from a non OS X box and run inferno on the OS X box. Going from OS X to OS X seems fine though. Setting the colours to thousands in the X11 preferences seems to sort out the colour map but leads to other strange behaviour. Abhey On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Mike Haertel wrote: > I just tried to run the latest version of Inferno, hosted on > my FreeBSD box, and with $DISPLAY pointed to a remote X server > running on Mac OS X (the one distributed by Apple for OS X 10.3). > The colors on the Mac's X server were all wrong. > > Has anyone else seen this? Is there an easy fix? > From shaw.ca!system-wide Wed Jun 2 19:03:25 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from pd2mo2so.prod.shaw.ca ([24.71.223.10]) by doppio; Wed Jun 2 19:03:25 BST 2004 Received: from pd4mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr2so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.213]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HYO00158ZSYRN@l-daemon> for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Wed, 02 Jun 2004 11:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shaw.ca ([10.0.122.201]) by pd4mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0HYO00BW5ZSXFZ60@pd4mr2so.prod.shaw.ca> for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Wed, 02 Jun 2004 11:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.0.144.81] by pd4ims1.prod.shaw.ca (mshttpd); Wed, 02 Jun 2004 11:41:29 -0600 Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 11:41:29 -0600 From: Cuong Lieu Subject: Inferno / Limbo To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-id: <12a81e812a81f1.12a81f112a81e8@shaw.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal Hi All, I am just wondering how the future holds for inferno and Limbo. It's worth one time to learn another OS and Language. Thanks From eik.bme.hu!fgergo Wed Jun 2 20:37:54 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from goliat.eik.bme.hu ([152.66.115.2]) by doppio; Wed Jun 2 20:37:54 BST 2004 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3608CB16D0 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 2004 21:32:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from goliat.eik.bme.hu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (goliat.eik.bme.hu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 06771-01 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 2004 21:32:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix, from userid 455) id 86582B16D1; Wed, 2 Jun 2004 21:32:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75DF4CA2D1 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 2004 21:32:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 21:32:16 +0200 (CEST) From: FODEMESI Gergely X-X-Sender: fgergo@goliat To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno / Limbo In-Reply-To: <12a81e812a81f1.12a81f112a81e8@shaw.ca> Message-ID: References: <12a81e812a81f1.12a81f112a81e8@shaw.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at goliat.eik.bme.hu Depends on what you mean by learning, but probably yes. You are welcome to read and learn a lot! You are probably going to experience things you'd never heard of before. Things like that and knowing that other systems are only going to pick up ideas in a few years time makes you feel like you travelled in time. You can have most of the functionality of any common desktop environment, but be prepared to accept things the way they are, since inferno's main strength lies elsewhere. Hint: until now and at the moment there was and is a very good overhead of inferno. There are reasons why you can't have your favorite web-browser, irc client etc. gergo On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Cuong Lieu wrote: > Hi All, > > I am just wondering how the future holds for inferno and Limbo. It's > worth one time to learn another OS and Language. > > Thanks > > From cooper.edu!salomo3 Wed Jun 2 20:55:32 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wish.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.74]) by doppio; Wed Jun 2 20:55:32 BST 2004 Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 40164393A; Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 9446F3938 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 63.165.50.175 (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish.cooper.edu with HTTP; Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1250.63.165.50.175.1086204933.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: postscript fonts From: "Joel Salomon" To: "inferno" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME,USER_AGENT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was trying to read some of the inferno docs using ghostscript/ghostview under windows, and some of the ps files are barely readable - words overlapping, etc. It looks like gsview is using some default courier font rather than the document-specified one. Is there any way to add the plan9/inferno postscript fonts to a windows ghost[script|view] installation? --Joel From virtualbuilder.com!jeff.macdonald Thu Jun 3 02:10:04 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from out006.verizon.net ([206.46.170.106]) by doppio; Thu Jun 3 02:10:04 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.123.121] ([141.154.224.45]) by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040603005803.ATJ3317.out006.verizon.net@[192.168.123.121]> for ; Wed, 2 Jun 2004 19:58:03 -0500 Subject: console based editor? From: Jeff Macdonald To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-Qw/i8fIaERLHk3JD8Vt8" Message-Id: <1086224330.8714.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 20:58:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [141.154.224.45] at Wed, 2 Jun 2004 19:58:03 -0500 --=-Qw/i8fIaERLHk3JD8Vt8 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My laptop only has 2 mouse buttons! :) Is there anything like joe? --=-Qw/i8fIaERLHk3JD8Vt8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBAvnfJ0b16ZBJqh/sRAs3tAJ4/gDoZ7jMWAYq9hk2Bskf0IL+/nACcCMex Mg7TgSq5493t7AFBYOZ95N0= =mGds -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Qw/i8fIaERLHk3JD8Vt8-- From agro.dp.ua!mvb Thu Jun 3 06:54:13 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mail.agro.dp.ua ([195.177.240.5]) by doppio; Thu Jun 3 06:54:13 BST 2004 Received: from mvb.agrosoyuz.com ([10.1.0.244]) (authenticated user mvb@agro.dp.ua) by agro.dp.ua (mail.agro.dp.ua [192.168.1.5]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.4.R) with ESMTP id 37-md50000000200.tmp for ; Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:43:05 +0300 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 08:49:09 +0300 From: Vladimir Machulsky X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.00.6) Business X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <114173899714.20040603084909@agro.dp.ua> To: Joel Salomon Subject: Re: [inferno-list] postscript fonts In-Reply-To: <1250.63.165.50.175.1086204933.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> References: <1250.63.165.50.175.1086204933.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-Sender: mvb@agro.dp.ua X-Spam-Processed: mail.agro.dp.ua, Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:43:05 +0300 (not processed: spam filter disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 10.1.0.244 X-Return-Path: mvb@agro.dp.ua X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com JS> I was trying to read some of the inferno docs using ghostscript/ghostview JS> under windows, and some of the ps files are barely readable - words JS> overlapping, etc. It looks like gsview is using some default courier font JS> rather than the document-specified one. Is there any way to add the JS> plan9/inferno postscript fonts to a windows ghost[script|view] JS> installation? Some of the .ps wants Lucida font, and default substitution with Courier looks weird. I was succeed with adding following line at the end of Fontmap: /LucidaSansUnicode00 /NimbusSanL-Regu ; -- Best regards, Vladimir mailto:mvb@agro.dp.ua From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu Jun 3 16:09:49 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu Jun 3 16:09:49 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] postscript fonts From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 16:00:43 +0100 In-Reply-To: <114173899714.20040603084909@agro.dp.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-kbhfnhcroybycmirmjoxumnkez" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-kbhfnhcroybycmirmjoxumnkez Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'll try to remember to put the necessary fonts (or characters from them) into the .ps files next time i build them. i'm suspect i probably didn't notice because they were already installed on the machine i use to check things, and i didn't think of that one. --upas-kbhfnhcroybycmirmjoxumnkez Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Thu Jun 3 06:51:17 BST 2004 Received: from mail.agro.dp.ua ([195.177.240.5]) by doppio; Thu Jun 3 06:54:13 BST 2004 Received: from mvb.agrosoyuz.com ([10.1.0.244]) (authenticated user mvb@agro.dp.ua) by agro.dp.ua (mail.agro.dp.ua [192.168.1.5]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.4.R) with ESMTP id 37-md50000000200.tmp for ; Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:43:05 +0300 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 08:49:09 +0300 From: Vladimir Machulsky X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.00.6) Business X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <114173899714.20040603084909@agro.dp.ua> To: Joel Salomon In-Reply-To: <1250.63.165.50.175.1086204933.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> References: <1250.63.165.50.175.1086204933.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-Sender: mvb@agro.dp.ua X-Spam-Processed: mail.agro.dp.ua, Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:43:05 +0300 (not processed: spam filter disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 10.1.0.244 X-Return-Path: mvb@agro.dp.ua X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] postscript fonts Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk JS> I was trying to read some of the inferno docs using ghostscript/ghostview JS> under windows, and some of the ps files are barely readable - words JS> overlapping, etc. It looks like gsview is using some default courier font JS> rather than the document-specified one. Is there any way to add the JS> plan9/inferno postscript fonts to a windows ghost[script|view] JS> installation? Some of the .ps wants Lucida font, and default substitution with Courier looks weird. I was succeed with adding following line at the end of Fontmap: /LucidaSansUnicode00 /NimbusSanL-Regu ; -- Best regards, Vladimir mailto:mvb@agro.dp.ua --upas-kbhfnhcroybycmirmjoxumnkez-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu Jun 3 16:14:58 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu Jun 3 16:14:58 BST 2004 Message-ID: <47b19de0d831a8b1040c869d6a5fa9d0@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 16:05:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1086224330.8714.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-iyiblkyfkfrciwzfoutlmhdhwa" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-iyiblkyfkfrciwzfoutlmhdhwa Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i secretly use ed for little things, but that's force of ancient habit. are you using Windows or Linux/FreeBSD/Unix on the laptop? i think control-[right button] is equivalent to middle-button on Windows Inferno, so you can get all through buttons on Windows. with X11 it seems to be up to the X implementation, but i suspect it also offers some way of emulating a 3-button mouse with 2-buttons. chording is admittedly a little tricky then. --upas-iyiblkyfkfrciwzfoutlmhdhwa Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Thu Jun 3 02:10:58 BST 2004 Received: from out006.verizon.net ([206.46.170.106]) by doppio; Thu Jun 3 02:10:04 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.123.121] ([141.154.224.45]) by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040603005803.ATJ3317.out006.verizon.net@[192.168.123.121]> for ; Wed, 2 Jun 2004 19:58:03 -0500 From: Jeff Macdonald To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-Qw/i8fIaERLHk3JD8Vt8" Message-Id: <1086224330.8714.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 20:58:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [141.154.224.45] at Wed, 2 Jun 2004 19:58:03 -0500 Subject: [inferno-list] console based editor? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk --=-Qw/i8fIaERLHk3JD8Vt8 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My laptop only has 2 mouse buttons! :) Is there anything like joe? --=-Qw/i8fIaERLHk3JD8Vt8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBAvnfJ0b16ZBJqh/sRAs3tAJ4/gDoZ7jMWAYq9hk2Bskf0IL+/nACcCMex Mg7TgSq5493t7AFBYOZ95N0= =mGds -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Qw/i8fIaERLHk3JD8Vt8-- --upas-iyiblkyfkfrciwzfoutlmhdhwa-- From shaw.ca!system-wide Thu Jun 3 16:36:35 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from pd3mo3so.prod.shaw.ca ([24.71.223.10]) by doppio; Thu Jun 3 16:36:35 BST 2004 Received: from pd3mr8so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr8so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.24]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HYQ00IIQO8SC6@l-daemon> for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 03 Jun 2004 09:26:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shaw.ca ([10.0.122.201]) by pd3mr8so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0HYQ006AHO8SAOO0@pd3mr8so.prod.shaw.ca> for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 03 Jun 2004 09:26:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.0.144.81] by pd4ims1.prod.shaw.ca (mshttpd); Thu, 03 Jun 2004 09:27:00 -0600 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 09:27:00 -0600 From: Cuong Lieu Subject: Inferno on Soekris Net4521 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-id: <135a57a135be5b.135be5b135a57a@shaw.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal Hi, I wonder if anyone know if it's possible to install Inferno on a Soekris net4521 with 256MB Flash ? -C From xaplos.com!macrod Thu Jun 3 20:34:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf14aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.62]) by doppio; Thu Jun 3 20:34:28 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040603174532.RKHC6744.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Thu, 3 Jun 2004 13:45:32 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: Directory Structure Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 13:45:28 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcRJko6/xRQcHdSRRLS4aH2a9nPl7g== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20040603174532.RKHC6744.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> I'm sure there's a logical reason, but why aren't the root level hosted platforms (i.e., FreeBSD, Hp, Irix, etc.) packaged into a unique directory like emu and os? It's not a big deal (and I think most popular platforms are already covered), but in theory this list could grow to support other Inferno hosted platforms (i.e., QNX, BeOS, OS/2, Amiga, etc.) making Inferno's root directory "unbalanced" [many root level folders]. I guess a similar question could be asked about lib_ directories since it's possible for many future built-in libs to be part of the distribution. Just a curious learner... -Mark From infernopark.com!vdharani Thu Jun 3 21:33:38 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plain.rackshack.net ([207.44.192.47]) by doppio; Thu Jun 3 21:33:38 BST 2004 X-ClientAddr: 127.0.0.1 Received: from www.infernopark.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by plain.rackshack.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i541Danh016073 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 2004 20:13:36 -0500 Received: from 192.11.226.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Thu, 3 Jun 2004 20:13:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <58274.192.11.226.116.1086311616.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> In-Reply-To: <20040603174532.RKHC6744.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> References: <20040603174532.RKHC6744.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 20:13:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Directory Structure From: vdharani@infernopark.com To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-yoursite-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-yoursite-MailScanner: Found to be clean > I'm sure there's a logical reason, but why aren't the root level hosted > platforms (i.e., FreeBSD, Hp, Irix, etc.) packaged into a unique directory > like emu and os? > > It's not a big deal (and I think most popular platforms are already > covered), but in theory this list could grow to support other Inferno > hosted > platforms (i.e., QNX, BeOS, OS/2, Amiga, etc.) making Inferno's root > directory "unbalanced" [many root level folders]. > > I guess a similar question could be asked about lib_ directories since > it's > possible for many future built-in libs to be part of the distribution. i too had the same question for a long time. if host platform directories and libxxxx directories can be moved one level down, inf root will be a lot cleaner. thanks dharani From virtualbuilder.com!jeff.macdonald Fri Jun 4 03:13:55 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from out003.verizon.net ([206.46.170.103]) by doppio; Fri Jun 4 03:13:55 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.123.121] ([151.203.243.197]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040604015846.XSSJ6671.out003.verizon.net@[192.168.123.121]> for ; Thu, 3 Jun 2004 20:58:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? From: Jeff Macdonald To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <47b19de0d831a8b1040c869d6a5fa9d0@terzarima.net> References: <47b19de0d831a8b1040c869d6a5fa9d0@terzarima.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-yfFBlrz2rJuAaO7GWppN" Message-Id: <1086314381.2059.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 21:59:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [151.203.243.197] at Thu, 3 Jun 2004 20:58:46 -0500 --=-yfFBlrz2rJuAaO7GWppN Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm using Linux. But seriously, no console based editor? Are GUI editors the only way to do things or does one use the host OS and save the files/data in a directory that Inferno can access? On Thu, 2004-06-03 at 11:05, Charles Forsyth wrote: > i secretly use ed for little things, but that's force of ancient habit. >=20 > are you using Windows or Linux/FreeBSD/Unix on the laptop? > i think control-[right button] is equivalent to middle-button on Windows = Inferno, > so you can get all through buttons on Windows. > with X11 it seems to be up to the X implementation, but i suspect > it also offers some way of emulating a 3-button mouse with 2-buttons. > chording is admittedly a little tricky then. >=20 > ______________________________________________________________________ > From: Jeff Macdonald > To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com > Subject: [inferno-list] console based editor? > Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 20:58:51 -0400 >=20 > My laptop only has 2 mouse buttons! :) Is there anything like joe? >=20 --=-yfFBlrz2rJuAaO7GWppN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBAv9eM0b16ZBJqh/sRAnlRAKCIA8zz568E/UHLtranSNlufiJTDQCcDXRd zAtEljRwFeLRDAinfezEpvY= =IKc5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-yfFBlrz2rJuAaO7GWppN-- From anothy.9srv.net!inferno Fri Jun 4 04:06:46 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Fri Jun 4 04:06:46 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.2.2] ([81.136.222.91]) by 9srv.net; Thu Jun 3 23:01:11 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) In-Reply-To: <1086314381.2059.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <47b19de0d831a8b1040c869d6a5fa9d0@terzarima.net> <1086314381.2059.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed Message-Id: <6C1AE0EC-B5D3-11D8-B96F-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 04:01:06 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) > But seriously, no console based editor? not unless you count ed, nope. > Are GUI editors the only way to do things or does one use the host > OS and save the files/data in a directory that Inferno can access? myself, i do mostly edit from outside inferno, simply because the OS X implementation is still not quite first-rate. of course, i'm then using a gui editor on that data... some guy from jersey. $B%"(B From imperium.ph!dido Fri Jun 4 06:25:25 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from gateway.imperium.ph ([202.175.240.154]) by doppio; Fri Jun 4 06:25:25 BST 2004 Received: from morgoth (morgoth.imperium.ph [192.168.1.35]) by gateway.imperium.ph (Postfix) with SMTP id 2B07246CF4 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 13:22:13 +0800 (PHT) Received: by morgoth (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 4 Jun 2004 13:18:13 +0800 From: dido@imperium.ph Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 13:18:13 +0800 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? Message-ID: <20040604051813.GA16474@imperium.ph> References: <47b19de0d831a8b1040c869d6a5fa9d0@terzarima.net> <1086314381.2059.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6C1AE0EC-B5D3-11D8-B96F-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6C1AE0EC-B5D3-11D8-B96F-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> X-Operating-System: Linux morgoth 2.6.5-gentoo-r1 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i On Fri, Jun 04, 2004 at 04:01:06AM +0100, Anthony Sorace wrote: > not unless you count ed, nope. So how hard would it be to make a vi for inferno given ed? And on another note, has anyone tried to make a limbo-mode for Emacs? I've been trying to write one myself in my spare time, but frankly, I'd rather spend it finishing the compiler. From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Jun 4 09:02:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Jun 4 09:02:36 BST 2004 Message-ID: <171ff32204a732f4a0f1db84b3a78b79@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 08:53:30 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1086314381.2059.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ed was added mainly to allow files such as configuration files to be edited before the window system can be started (particularly, in native mode when talking to a shell at the other end of a serial line). i forgot to mention wm/edit but that's a basic editor similar to notepad; it doesn't need more than 1 button, although editing is easier with two (saves trips to the Edit submenu). brutus(1) describes a multi-file editor, but it's fair to say that most of the focus is on acme. more important, i also forgot to mention that i almost always connect an external 3-button mouse to my Thinkpad, even though the Thinkpad has got three buttons on board. acme is much smoother with a real mouse; once you've made the effort to learn it, it's usually worthwhile. there isn't a lot to learn, and it's extremely good at integrating external programs into one development environment. if you prefer vi or emacs then i suppose you're more comfortable doing the editing there, outside the inferno environment. that's one reason there is still a limbo compiler written in C to run as a host program (the other reason is that it makes bootstrapping and mk-from-scratch easier). From 9srv.net!a Fri Jun 4 11:09:21 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Fri Jun 4 11:09:21 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.2.2] ([81.136.222.91]) by 9srv.net; Fri Jun 4 06:03:45 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) In-Reply-To: <20040604051813.GA16474@imperium.ph> References: <47b19de0d831a8b1040c869d6a5fa9d0@terzarima.net> <1086314381.2059.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6C1AE0EC-B5D3-11D8-B96F-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> <20040604051813.GA16474@imperium.ph> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed Message-Id: <7340CB53-B60E-11D8-B96F-000A95DA79F6@9srv.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 11:03:38 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) First, dido@imperium.ph wrote: > So how hard would it be to make a vi for inferno given ed? moderately hard. inferno does not have cursor addressing in its consoles, which vi needs. i have some hazy memory of a vt program that emulated a vt100 or similar, thus providing cursor addressing, but (assuming i'm not flat-out hallucinating its existence) that's only enough for running vi elsewhere (hmm... 'os vi'?); all the library support for doing an Inferno vi would need to be written as well. the mips interpreter, however, doesn't require much external support. ;-) Slightly later, Charles Forsyth wrote: > ...once you've made the effort to learn [acme], it's usually > worthwhile. i couldn't agree more here. acme is just wonderful. its the single biggest productivity enhancement to my time spent on any given OS, ever. some guy from jersey. $B%"(B From anothy.9srv.net!inferno Fri Jun 4 11:31:13 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Fri Jun 4 11:31:13 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.2.2] ([81.136.222.91]) by 9srv.net; Fri Jun 4 06:25:34 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <7F59A794-B611-11D8-B96F-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Russ Cox From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Bug(s?) in Inferno mk Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 11:25:27 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) I sent the mail below to 9fans yesterday, upon discovering at least one, possibly three, bugs in the included mk. The notes that come with it indicated that it was derived or repackaged from the one VN distributes. I've now confirmed that all three exhibit the same behavior using the actual VN mk (i'm not running the most recent version, but close). I've also now confirmed all three as bugs (against the reference implementation on plan9, which behaves as expected in each case). Submitted here to get more eyes looking at the problem. Thanks. Anthony ---BEGIN ORIGINAL MESSAGE--- i've found at least one bug in the plan9ports mk. it (mk, not the bug) claims to have come from Inferno, and russ wants packaging bug reports, and it's in the plan9ports tree, so i don't know who should really get the bug, but here you go. first, the one i'm pretty sure of: when using a regular-expression rule as a target, you need to do \\1 for the () substitution in the prereq, rather than \1, as in plan 9 and sam. second, and a bigger deal, mk seems to just get things wrong given nested virtual rules. i have a target "push" which does "nuke export upload". nuke is just one rm, upload is just one scp; export is a virtual target for "foo.export bar.export baz.export". each of those do some queries and then post-process the results. foo.export has a foo.txt target. %.txt relies on %.pre, and does sed -e 'something' < $prereq > $target. %.pre has no prerequisites and just does a DB query and puts the results in %target. doing "mk export" gets all this right; doing "mk push" does the nuke, generates all the %.pre files, then immediatly tries to do the upload (which fails). what's (perhaps) interesting is that doing "mk -n push" claims it'll do the right thing. this seems like a pretty substantial bug, unless i'm missing something. neither of these two bugs exhibit themselves using mk on plan9. third, and i'm less confident this is a bug, mk seems to get stuck on the existance of files at invocation, rather than when a rule is run. that is, in the above example, if the prerequisites for export are up to date before the nuke is run (which removes them), it believes they still are when it gets to the export. i wasn't able to compare the behavior here to my plan9 box. any pointers or assistence will be very much appreciated. a (oh, this is all on OS X using a copy with May 14 as the most recent date in the CHANGES file - is there a more accurate way to version them?) From borf.com!bwc Fri Jun 4 13:58:33 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from edsac.borf.com ([209.179.94.84]) by doppio; Fri Jun 4 13:58:33 BST 2004 Message-ID: <884e96bfd374c2e559f09f31a48a33f1@borf.com> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? From: Brantley Coile Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 08:52:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: <171ff32204a732f4a0f1db84b3a78b79@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let me encourage vi users to try acme. Real progress comes when we can let go of the chains of past habit and re-think what we are doing. Modern development systems are all graphical. Editors from the days of Hazeltines and DEC VT100s are artifacts of a previous age. The other thing I would encourage, is for you to use only ed for a week or so. You will find it amazing. It's much more productive than you would think. I wouldn't trade Acme for it, but most people sell it way short. I lived solely in ed for 10 years--until the editor sam--only using vi occasionally. This is not meant to start an editor war. I strongly believe in using the tool you personally prefer. You should find the educational experience enjoyable. Brantley From cisco.com!dfawcus Fri Jun 4 19:48:01 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by doppio; Fri Jun 4 19:48:01 BST 2004 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Jun 2004 20:51:50 +0200 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from cisco.com (edinburgh.cisco.com [144.254.112.76]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i54IgN1P004226 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 20:42:23 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id TAA25306 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 19:42:23 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 19:42:23 +0100 From: Derek Fawcus To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Windows emu -g option Message-ID: <20040604194222.G16155@edinburgh.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Well I finally got around to starting to play with inferno, this is using the 4th edition limited ed CD. I noticed that the -g flag doesn't obey - or at least the program thinks it know better. I'm using a laptop (IBM thinkpad T40) running XP, and a dual headed config - the main head is the laptop flag panel (1024x768), the second head is an external flag panel (1280x1024). What I've noticed is that the I can't get an emu (graphics) window of 1280x1024, the window is alway limited to 1024x768 when it starts. Anyone got any ideas of how to handle this - short of installing a compiler so I can rebuild emu. I guess part of this is down to a general lack of windows support for multihead configs. Hmm - if the graphics window was resizeable, it'd be a workaround. Alas... I guess I'll just have to install it under Linux soon. Anyway, lot's of playing and reading to do. DF From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Jun 4 20:09:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Jun 4 20:09:20 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Windows emu -g option From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 20:00:13 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040604194222.G16155@edinburgh.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lknlqrqwxjhuohugdopwkcxito" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lknlqrqwxjhuohugdopwkcxito Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'm not sure it's emu itself; it limits itself to the value of GetSystemMetrics(SM_CXFULLSCREEN) (similarly, SM_CYFULLSCREEN). is there now GetSystemMetricsEx with some more parameters? resizeable graphics window is reasonably high on our list of things to do. --upas-lknlqrqwxjhuohugdopwkcxito Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Fri Jun 4 19:50:55 BST 2004 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by doppio; Fri Jun 4 19:48:01 BST 2004 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Jun 2004 20:51:50 +0200 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from cisco.com (edinburgh.cisco.com [144.254.112.76]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i54IgN1P004226 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 20:42:23 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id TAA25306 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 19:42:23 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 19:42:23 +0100 From: Derek Fawcus To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-ID: <20040604194222.G16155@edinburgh.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Subject: [inferno-list] Windows emu -g option Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Well I finally got around to starting to play with inferno, this is using the 4th edition limited ed CD. I noticed that the -g flag doesn't obey - or at least the program thinks it know better. I'm using a laptop (IBM thinkpad T40) running XP, and a dual headed config - the main head is the laptop flag panel (1024x768), the second head is an external flag panel (1280x1024). What I've noticed is that the I can't get an emu (graphics) window of 1280x1024, the window is alway limited to 1024x768 when it starts. Anyone got any ideas of how to handle this - short of installing a compiler so I can rebuild emu. I guess part of this is down to a general lack of windows support for multihead configs. Hmm - if the graphics window was resizeable, it'd be a workaround. Alas... I guess I'll just have to install it under Linux soon. Anyway, lot's of playing and reading to do. DF --upas-lknlqrqwxjhuohugdopwkcxito-- From cisco.com!dfawcus Fri Jun 4 22:24:34 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by doppio; Fri Jun 4 22:24:34 BST 2004 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Jun 2004 23:28:24 +0200 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from cisco.com (edinburgh.cisco.com [144.254.112.76]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i54LIu1P015858 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 23:18:56 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from dfawcus@localhost) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id WAA02611 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 22:18:55 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 22:18:55 +0100 From: Derek Fawcus To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Windows emu -g option Message-ID: <20040604221855.H16155@edinburgh.cisco.com> References: <20040604194222.G16155@edinburgh.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from forsyth@terzarima.net on Fri, Jun 04, 2004 at 08:00:13PM +0100 On Fri, Jun 04, 2004 at 08:00:13PM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > i'm not sure it's emu itself; it limits itself to the value of > GetSystemMetrics(SM_CXFULLSCREEN) (similarly, SM_CYFULLSCREEN). > > is there now GetSystemMetricsEx with some more parameters? > > resizeable graphics window is reasonably high on our list of things to do. Not being au fait with windows programming, I can only really guess and hack at it. However given the above, I suppose I could download the windows compiler and platform sdk pointed out on 9fans and then hack in a new flag (say -w) which used the values without clipping the parameters. Or possibly a seperate flag meaning - trust me, don't clip the passed in size? Hmm - 350Mb of SDK download, and 30M of compiler download to go... DF From eik.bme.hu!fgergo Sat Jun 5 14:48:38 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from goliat.eik.bme.hu ([152.66.115.2]) by doppio; Sat Jun 5 14:48:38 BST 2004 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50093B16D0 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 15:43:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from goliat.eik.bme.hu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (goliat.eik.bme.hu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 02041-01-36 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 15:42:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix, from userid 455) id 42787B16D2; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 15:42:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by goliat.eik.bme.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30AE1CA2D1 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 15:42:31 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 15:42:30 +0200 (CEST) From: FODEMESI Gergely X-X-Sender: fgergo@goliat To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Windows emu -g option In-Reply-To: <20040604221855.H16155@edinburgh.cisco.com> Message-ID: References: <20040604194222.G16155@edinburgh.cisco.com> <20040604221855.H16155@edinburgh.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at goliat.eik.bme.hu I think you'll need to get lib.exe from somewhere else, since it's not given away. Gergo On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Derek Fawcus wrote: > On Fri, Jun 04, 2004 at 08:00:13PM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > i'm not sure it's emu itself; it limits itself to the value of > > GetSystemMetrics(SM_CXFULLSCREEN) (similarly, SM_CYFULLSCREEN). > > > > is there now GetSystemMetricsEx with some more parameters? > > > > resizeable graphics window is reasonably high on our list of things to do. > > Not being au fait with windows programming, I can only really guess and > hack at it. However given the above, I suppose I could download the > windows compiler and platform sdk pointed out on 9fans and then hack in > a new flag (say -w) which used the values without clipping the parameters. > > Or possibly a seperate flag meaning - trust me, don't clip the passed in > size? > > Hmm - 350Mb of SDK download, and 30M of compiler download to go... > > DF > From suspicious.org!suspect Sat Jun 5 19:01:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from bache.ece.cmu.edu ([128.2.129.23]) by doppio; Sat Jun 5 19:01:52 BST 2004 Received: from [128.2.67.95] (MUNG.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.67.95]) by bache.ece.cmu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFE7956E; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 13:56:16 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20040604194222.G16155@edinburgh.cisco.com> <20040604221855.H16155@edinburgh.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: suspect@suspicious.org Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Windows emu -g option Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 13:56:15 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) I'm successfully using the lib.exe that is in the SDK update in SDK/Bin/Win64/lib.exe That binary is "Microsoft (R) Library Manager VErsion 7.10.2240.8", and its "/MACHINE:" flag supports "AM33|ARM|...|iA64|...|X86". I run it as lib -machine:x86 On a related note, I have a strange problem that I can't figure out (I also had this using the full version of the VC++ toolkit, and not only using the free version): Running a compiled emu over both Win2K and WinXP on VirtualPC on the Mac runs fine, however when I run the same binary over a "real" windows installation, it hangs at the point of a "bind '#device' /location". The hunch I have is that it is somehow related to a system setup parameter or some permissions. The reason for the hunch is, the same binary worked fine on a real windows machine up until a few months ago when it was "upgraded"/"patched" with some security fix or the other. Any ideas ? Thanks cheers, > I think you'll need to get lib.exe from somewhere else, since it's not > given away. From forsyth Sun Jun 6 18:12:08 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:12:08 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [Inferno] Re: [inferno-list] Windows emu -g option In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>it hangs at the point of a "bind '#device' /location". any particular device or location? From terzarima.net!forsyth Sun Jun 6 20:07:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sun Jun 6 20:07:28 BST 2004 Message-ID: <4b4fe53ee76be592332da63639a9d777@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com CC: russcox@gmail.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Bug(s?) in Inferno mk From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 20:03:31 +0100 In-Reply-To: <7F59A794-B611-11D8-B96F-000A95DA79F6@anothy.9srv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i did have a quick look at it when the message appeared on 9fans, but i'll need to build an example. i did find there were relatively few differences between the sources, and most of those were unlikely to cause those particular troubles, but i still need to work up a test file for comparison to check the remaining differences. there is a difference in the way the times of files are acquired, and although superficially that shouldn't cause trouble with virtual rules, it might i suppose affect the order in which things are applied. From nilpotent.org!silence-inferno Sun Jun 6 22:03:43 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from loops.nilpotent.org ([12.17.163.70]) by doppio; Sun Jun 6 22:03:43 BST 2004 Received: (qmail 33232 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2004 20:58:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (203.215.182.46) by loops.nilpotent.org with QMTP; 6 Jun 2004 20:58:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 5602 invoked by uid 500); 6 Jun 2004 20:53:02 -0000 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: freebsd 5.2.1, unwrapping the install files From: Faried Nawaz X-nil: X-Useless-info: System load is 0.09 with 83 processes active. X-Neuromancer: Case, good buddy. X-Face: ($1_|:l_nh<,*_F'yGU*.;qOl'7xB*M-79g!4d0b^6o52l|-+_j,T8QOU[t!J<$-Q|G^=S)9|Twlm<}1x(.oc^SxIu3x|:k6xKKw;df8IDa="{*}qfExX kLhA''9=#Z5,w:gZekpP7DR'\s!rH]yT0|Q;R+g[HJ Organization: Integral Domains Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 01:53:01 +0500 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.5 (cassava, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, As I reported a couple of months ago, the FreeBSD emu doesn't work under FreeBSD 5.2.1. I get this when I attach to the running process and trace it: loops# ps ax | grep emu 32861 p6 S+ 0:00.01 /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu -c0 -G -r/mnt 32862 p6 S+ 0:00.00 /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu -c0 -G -r/mnt 32863 p6 S+ 0:00.00 /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu -c0 -G -r/mnt 32864 p6 S+ 0:00.00 /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu -c0 -G -r/mnt loops# gdb -q /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu (gdb) attach 32861 Attaching to program: /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu, process 32861 Reading symbols from /lib/libm.so.2...done. Loaded symbols for /lib/libm.so.2 Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 Reading symbols from /usr/lib/compat/libc.so.4...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/compat/libc.so.4 Reading symbols from /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1 0x28283d40 in sigsuspend () from /usr/lib/compat/libc.so.4 (gdb) bt #0 0x28283d40 in sigsuspend () from /usr/lib/compat/libc.so.4 #1 0x282835fc in sigpause () from /usr/lib/compat/libc.so.4 #2 0x2827caee in pause () from /usr/lib/compat/libc.so.4 #3 0x0804b7ed in ospause () at os.c:439 #4 0x0806d6f9 in emuinit (imod=0x8113320) at ../port/main.c:310 #5 0x0804adf4 in executeonnewstack () #6 0x0804b635 in libinit (imod=0x8113320 "/dis/emuinit.dis") at os.c:354 #7 0x0806d453 in main (argc=4, argv=0xbfbfe724) at ../port/main.c:257 #8 0x0804ad3e in _start () (gdb) I'd like to try compiling emu so that it uses the FreeBSD 5.x libc; to do that I need to extract the source files. Is there a shell script, or C application ported to Unix that'll let me unwrap the files? Faried. From nilpotent.org!silence-inferno Sun Jun 6 22:04:37 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from loops.nilpotent.org ([12.17.163.70]) by doppio; Sun Jun 6 22:04:37 BST 2004 Received: (qmail 33235 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2004 20:59:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (203.215.182.64) by loops.nilpotent.org with QMTP; 6 Jun 2004 20:59:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 5602 invoked by uid 500); 6 Jun 2004 20:53:02 -0000 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: freebsd 5.2.1, unwrapping the install files From: Faried Nawaz X-nil: X-Useless-info: System load is 0.09 with 83 processes active. X-Neuromancer: Case, good buddy. X-Face: ($1_|:l_nh<,*_F'yGU*.;qOl'7xB*M-79g!4d0b^6o52l|-+_j,T8QOU[t!J<$-Q|G^=S)9|Twlm<}1x(.oc^SxIu3x|:k6xKKw;df8IDa="{*}qfExX kLhA''9=#Z5,w:gZekpP7DR'\s!rH]yT0|Q;R+g[HJ Organization: Integral Domains Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 01:53:01 +0500 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.5 (cassava, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, As I reported a couple of months ago, the FreeBSD emu doesn't work under FreeBSD 5.2.1. I get this when I attach to the running process and trace it: loops# ps ax | grep emu 32861 p6 S+ 0:00.01 /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu -c0 -G -r/mnt 32862 p6 S+ 0:00.00 /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu -c0 -G -r/mnt 32863 p6 S+ 0:00.00 /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu -c0 -G -r/mnt 32864 p6 S+ 0:00.00 /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu -c0 -G -r/mnt loops# gdb -q /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu (gdb) attach 32861 Attaching to program: /mnt/FreeBSD/386/bin/emu, process 32861 Reading symbols from /lib/libm.so.2...done. Loaded symbols for /lib/libm.so.2 Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 Reading symbols from /usr/lib/compat/libc.so.4...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/compat/libc.so.4 Reading symbols from /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1 0x28283d40 in sigsuspend () from /usr/lib/compat/libc.so.4 (gdb) bt #0 0x28283d40 in sigsuspend () from /usr/lib/compat/libc.so.4 #1 0x282835fc in sigpause () from /usr/lib/compat/libc.so.4 #2 0x2827caee in pause () from /usr/lib/compat/libc.so.4 #3 0x0804b7ed in ospause () at os.c:439 #4 0x0806d6f9 in emuinit (imod=0x8113320) at ../port/main.c:310 #5 0x0804adf4 in executeonnewstack () #6 0x0804b635 in libinit (imod=0x8113320 "/dis/emuinit.dis") at os.c:354 #7 0x0806d453 in main (argc=4, argv=0xbfbfe724) at ../port/main.c:257 #8 0x0804ad3e in _start () (gdb) I'd like to try compiling emu so that it uses the FreeBSD 5.x libc; to do that I need to extract the source files. Is there a shell script, or C application ported to Unix that'll let me unwrap the files? Faried. From ti.com!cbarrera Mon Jun 7 02:39:39 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from go4.ext.ti.com ([192.91.75.132]) by doppio; Mon Jun 7 02:39:39 BST 2004 Received: from dmhp30.itg.ti.com ([134.183.41.209]) by go4.ext.ti.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i571Y1rj014963 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 20:34:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ti.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dmhp30.itg.ti.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i571Y0XY023728 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:34:01 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <40C3C6C5.4050002@ti.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 10:37:09 +0900 From: Christopher Barrera User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? References: <884e96bfd374c2e559f09f31a48a33f1@borf.com> In-Reply-To: <884e96bfd374c2e559f09f31a48a33f1@borf.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brantley, I agree to not start editor wars, so I will avoid focusing on the specific editors. ;) (I prefer VI, and will use it even on Windows platforms whenver possibled). The point I would like to make, is that it can be presumptive to view non-graphical technologies as not relevant and "chains of past habit", and that "graphical" is the future. The world is full of examples of where areas of seeming progress are not. I will demonstrate the folly of such assertions by this simple statement: "Graphical based editors are artifacts, mere candy so to speak, of modern times. They look sweet and taste good, but fail to nourish and provide sustenance". Aside from the obvious presumptiveness of the statement I just made, I have now drawn a line from which we could philosophically debate the two opposing assertions for ad infinitum ad nauseum without either being proved correct or false. Your final statement "use the tool you personally prefer" is the correct "middle" ground. Chris Barrera Brantley Coile wrote: >Let me encourage vi users to try acme. Real progress comes when we >can let go of the chains of past habit and re-think what we are doing. >Modern development systems are all graphical. Editors from the days >of Hazeltines and DEC VT100s are artifacts of a previous age. > >The other thing I would encourage, is for you to use only ed for a >week or so. You will find it amazing. It's much more productive than >you would think. I wouldn't trade Acme for it, but most people sell >it way short. I lived solely in ed for 10 years--until the editor >sam--only using vi occasionally. > >This is not meant to start an editor war. I strongly believe in using >the tool you personally prefer. You should find the educational >experience enjoyable. > > Brantley > > > From comcast.net!caerwyn Mon Jun 7 03:50:22 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.198.39]) by doppio; Mon Jun 7 03:50:22 BST 2004 Received: from oak (h000c41af2c71.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.7.243]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004060702444401500mi9dke>; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 02:44:44 +0000 Message-ID: <006101c44c39$64ae5510$6401a8c0@oak> From: "Caerwyn Jones" To: "inferno" Subject: ports to inferno Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 22:44:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005E_01C44C17.DD0DBB80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C44C17.DD0DBB80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i've placed ports of some simple plan9 commands to inferno on my site. so far this includes comm,=20 look, freq, fmt, and localcron (original from russ cox). http://caerwyn.home.comcast.net history compiles but i haven't tested it. i'll put idiff up soon. i modified 'look' to take the flag [-r key] to terminate a range. this is useful for taking a time slice of, say,=20 a log created by the timestamp command. is anyone working on porting vacfs to inferno? -caerwyn ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C44C17.DD0DBB80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
i've placed ports of some simple plan9 = commands=20 to
inferno on my site.  so far this = includes=20 comm,
look, freq, fmt, and localcron = (original from russ=20 cox).
http://caerwyn.home.comcast.net<= /A>
history compiles but i haven't tested = it. i'll put=20 idiff up soon.
 
i modified 'look' to take the flag [-r = key] to=20 terminate a
range.  this is useful = for taking=20 a time slice of, say, =
a log created by the timestamp=20 command.
 
is anyone working on porting vacfs to=20 inferno?
 
-caerwyn
 
------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C44C17.DD0DBB80-- From morphisms.net!wkj Mon Jun 7 05:36:50 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from holo.morphisms.net ([66.93.84.55]) by doppio; Mon Jun 7 05:36:50 BST 2004 Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 675DD24FD9 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 00:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6541828; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 00:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 00:31:09 -0400 From: William Josephson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] freebsd 5.2.1, unwrapping the install files Message-ID: <20040607043109.GC75382@mero.morphisms.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i X-No-archive: yes On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 01:53:01AM +0500, Faried Nawaz wrote: > I'd like to try compiling emu so that it uses the FreeBSD 5.x libc; to > do that I need to extract the source files. Is there a shell script, > or C application ported to Unix that'll let me unwrap the files? I think 9e in ports will still do that for Inferno archives. From agro.dp.ua!mvb Mon Jun 7 06:52:32 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mail.agro.dp.ua ([195.177.240.5]) by doppio; Mon Jun 7 06:52:32 BST 2004 Received: from mvb.agrosoyuz.com ([10.1.0.244]) (authenticated user mvb@agro.dp.ua) by agro.dp.ua (mail.agro.dp.ua [192.168.1.5]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.4.R) with ESMTP id 12-md50000000273.tmp for ; Mon, 07 Jun 2004 08:40:05 +0300 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:46:18 +0300 From: Vladimir Machulsky X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.00.6) Business X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <831121051.20040607084618@agro.dp.ua> To: Faried Nawaz Subject: Re: [inferno-list] freebsd 5.2.1, unwrapping the install files In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------EE157C52747FB64" X-Authenticated-Sender: mvb@agro.dp.ua X-Spam-Processed: mail.agro.dp.ua, Mon, 07 Jun 2004 08:40:05 +0300 (not processed: spam filter disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 10.1.0.244 X-Return-Path: mvb@agro.dp.ua X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com ------------EE157C52747FB64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Faried ! Sunday, June 6, 2004, 11:53:01 PM, you wrote: FN> As I reported a couple of months ago, the FreeBSD emu doesn't work FN> under FreeBSD 5.2.1. I'm using FreeBSD 5.1p2 and can confirm the problem. Additional, under 5.1p2 it does not run at all, complaining with "ourfork panic". But Linux version work just fine. I'm succeed with SuSe version from vitanuova site (i'm lazy to download required GLIBC version :) But if You want to run and play with native FreeBSD version, use attached patch on emu/FreeBSD/os.c. Some minor problems exists (Ctrl-C does not interrupt wm/wm under emu for example) but i can live with them. P.S. before compilation change mkfiles/mkfile-FreeBSD-386 for point yacc to FreeBSD/386/bin/yacc. minor changes to sources required but they are straightforward. -- Best regards, Vladimir mailto:bofhmail@yahoo.com ------------EE157C52747FB64 Content-Type: APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM; name="os.patch" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="os.patch" LS0tIG9zLmMub3JpZwlGcmkgTWF5IDIxIDIwOjA3OjI1IDIwMDQKKysrIG9zLmMJU3VuIEp1 biAgNiAyMzowMToxMyAyMDA0CkBAIC0xNjIsOCArMTYyLDEyIEBACiB0cmFtcCh2b2lkICph cmcpCiB7CiAJUHJvYyAqcDsKKwlzaWdzZXRfdCBtYXNrOwogCXAgPSBhcmc7CiAJcC0+c2ln aWQgPSBnZXRwaWQoKTsKKwlzaWdlbXB0eXNldCgmbWFzayk7CisJc2lnYWRkc2V0KCZtYXNr LCBTSUdVU1IyKTsKKwlzaWdwcm9jbWFzayhTSUdfQkxPQ0ssICZtYXNrLCBOVUxMKTsKIAko KnAtPmZ1bmMpKHAtPmFyZyk7CiAJcGV4aXQoIntUcmFtcH0iLCAwKTsKIH0KQEAgLTIyMCw3 ICsyMjQsNyBAQAogCXVubG9jaygmcHJvY3MubCk7CiAKIAlwLT5rc3RhY2sgPSBzdGFja2Fs bG9jKHAsICZ0b3MpOwotCXBpZCA9IHJmb3JrX3RocmVhZChSRlBST0N8UkZNRU18UkZOT1dB SVQsIHRvcywgdHJhbXAsIHApOworCXBpZCA9IHJmb3JrX3RocmVhZChSRlBST0N8UkZNRU18 UkZOT1dBSVR8UkZUSFJFQUQsIHRvcywgdHJhbXAsIHApOwogCWlmKHBpZCA8IDApCiAJCXBh bmljKCJvdXJmb3JrIik7CiAJCQo= ------------EE157C52747FB64-- From agro.dp.ua!mvb Mon Jun 7 09:07:01 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mail.agro.dp.ua ([195.177.240.5]) by doppio; Mon Jun 7 09:07:01 BST 2004 Received: from mvb.agrosoyuz.com ([10.1.0.244]) (authenticated user mvb@agro.dp.ua) by agro.dp.ua (mail.agro.dp.ua [192.168.1.5]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.4.R) with ESMTP id 53-md50000000278.tmp for ; Mon, 07 Jun 2004 10:56:03 +0300 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:02:16 +0300 From: Vladimir Machulsky X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.00.6) Business X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <639278982.20040607110216@agro.dp.ua> To: Faried Nawaz Subject: Re[2]: [inferno-list] freebsd 5.2.1, unwrapping the install files In-Reply-To: <831121051.20040607084618@agro.dp.ua> References: <831121051.20040607084618@agro.dp.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-Sender: mvb@agro.dp.ua X-Spam-Processed: mail.agro.dp.ua, Mon, 07 Jun 2004 10:56:03 +0300 (not processed: spam filter disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 10.1.0.244 X-Return-Path: mvb@agro.dp.ua X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In my previous email action sequence for compiling native emu is little unobvious so here they are: 1) install inferno using Linux version of emu 2) apply patch 3) edit mkfiles/mkfile-FreeBSD-386 4) set $ROOT to point Inferno Root 5) add $ROOT/FreeBSD/386/bin to $PATH 6) cd $ROOT 7) mk -- Best regards, Vladimir mailto:bofhmail@yahoo.com From forsyth Mon Jun 7 10:33:02 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] freebsd 5.2.1, unwrapping the install files From: C H Forsyth Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:33:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: <831121051.20040607084618@agro.dp.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - pid = rfork_thread(RFPROC|RFMEM|RFNOWAIT, tos, tramp, p); + pid = rfork_thread(RFPROC|RFMEM|RFNOWAIT|RFTHREAD, tos, tramp, p); ohhh noooo. not RFTHREAD again. will they ever make up their minds about this? will they ever document it properly? i thought introduction of rfork_thread had finally sorted this out, but it looks as though it is still different between 4.x and 5.x what's going on? pointers gratefully received. the next Inferno distribution should have the files unpacked in the .iso file, with installation from those. it's interesting. Plan 9 introduces a useful replacement for fork() that allows the old behaviour but also allows portable code to set up shared-memory processes, with control over sharing of file descriptor groups, etc. Linux messes it up one way; FreeBSD keeps the name, but not the semantics, and seems to tinker with it often enough to make it hard to use reliably. From agro.dp.ua!mvb Mon Jun 7 11:35:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mail.agro.dp.ua ([195.177.240.5]) by doppio; Mon Jun 7 11:35:28 BST 2004 Received: from mvb.agrosoyuz.com ([10.1.0.244]) (authenticated user mvb@agro.dp.ua) by agro.dp.ua (mail.agro.dp.ua [192.168.1.5]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.4.R) with ESMTP id 43-md50000000283.tmp for ; Mon, 07 Jun 2004 13:24:07 +0300 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 13:30:20 +0300 From: Vladimir Machulsky X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.00.6) Business X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <4618163117.20040607133020@agro.dp.ua> To: C H Forsyth Subject: Re[2]: [inferno-list] freebsd 5.2.1, unwrapping the install files In-Reply-To: References: <831121051.20040607084618@agro.dp.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Authenticated-Sender: mvb@agro.dp.ua X-Spam-Processed: mail.agro.dp.ua, Mon, 07 Jun 2004 13:24:07 +0300 (not processed: spam filter disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 10.1.0.244 X-Return-Path: mvb@agro.dp.ua X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Hello ! Monday, June 7, 2004, 12:33:02 PM, you wrote: CHF> - pid = rfork_thread(RFPROC|RFMEM|RFNOWAIT, tos, tramp, p); CHF> + pid = rfork_thread(RFPROC|RFMEM|RFNOWAIT|RFTHREAD, tos, tramp, p); CHF> ohhh noooo. not RFTHREAD again. CHF> will they ever make up their minds about this? CHF> will they ever document it properly? CHF> i thought introduction of rfork_thread had finally sorted this out, CHF> but it looks as though it is still different between 4.x and 5.x CHF> what's going on? CHF> pointers gratefully received. Can't say You to much about RFTHREAD. This is excerpt from kern_fork.c of FreeBSD 5.1: /* * Don't allow sharing of file descriptor table unless * RFTHREAD flag is supplied */ if ((uap->flags & (RFPROC | RFTHREAD | RFFDG | RFCFDG)) == RFPROC) return(EINVAL); This check appears only in 5.1 version, 5.0 and 5.2 are free of it. And in my case (5.1.p2) rfork_thread does not work at all without this flag. This is a reason why RFTHREAD appear in patch. Is rfork_thread will work with this flag under 5.2 ? May be Faried Nawaz can check ? -- Best regards, Vladimir mailto:bofhmail@yahoo.com From juice.thebigchoice.com!matt Mon Jun 7 13:21:09 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from juice.thebigchoice.com ([80.4.205.59]) by doppio; Mon Jun 7 13:21:09 BST 2004 Message-ID: X-TAG: matty Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:38:28 +0100 From: matt@juice.thebigchoice.com To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? In-Reply-To: <40C3C6C5.4050002@ti.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris - you know you are talking to a whole list of acme users who dumped vi a long time ago ? if you want vi you know where to find it, it's there next to gcc really, no-one has the heart or strong enough stomach to develop a cursor addressing console based editor to use with inferno, it just isn't practical. If you are running in a hosted environemnt, use the tools in the host. you shan't start a editor war because the peace treaty was signed a long time ago m From nilpotent.org!silence Mon Jun 7 14:24:48 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from loops.nilpotent.org ([12.17.163.70]) by doppio; Mon Jun 7 14:24:48 BST 2004 Received: (qmail 62634 invoked by uid 200); 7 Jun 2004 13:19:11 -0000 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 06:19:11 -0700 From: Faried Nawaz To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] freebsd 5.2.1, unwrapping the install files Message-ID: <20040607131911.GA62312@nilpotent.org> References: <831121051.20040607084618@agro.dp.ua> <4618163117.20040607133020@agro.dp.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4618163117.20040607133020@agro.dp.ua> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Organization: Integral Domains X-Face: ($1_|:l_nh<,*_F'yGU*.;qOl'7xB*M-79g!4d0b^6o52l|-+_j,T8QOU[t!J<$-Q|G^=S)9|Twlm<}1x(.oc^SxIu3x|:k6xKKw;df8IDa="{*}qfExX kLhA''9=#Z5,w:gZekpP7DR'\s!rH]yT0|Q;R+g[HJ William Josephson wrote: I think 9e in ports will still do that for Inferno archives. Thanks, that worked. Vladimir Machulsky wrote: This check appears only in 5.1 version, 5.0 and 5.2 are free of it. And in my case (5.1.p2) rfork_thread does not work at all without this flag. This is a reason why RFTHREAD appear in patch. Is rfork_thread will work with this flag under 5.2 ? May be Faried Nawaz can check ? I applied just the tramp() part of your patch; that was sufficient to get it to work. I now have two emu sessions up and running -- one as a signer and the other as a fileserver. I've tried mounting stuff off the fileserver from a remote inferno installation (on Linux), and everything's worked out okay so far. Thanks for the patch! While building emu, I ran into one problem. I got this error: [...] (cd libmath; mk ROOT=/u/inferno.build SYSHOST=FreeBSD OBJTYPE=386 all) /u/inferno.build/FreeBSD/386/lib/libmath.a doesn't exist: assuming it will be an archive cc -c -g -O -Wno-deprecated-declarations -Wuninitialized -Wunused -Wreturn-type -Wimplicit -I/u/inferno.build/FreeBSD/386/include -I/u/inferno.build/include -I/usr/X11R6/include -DFREEBSD_386 blas.c In file included from blas.c:2: /u/inferno.build/include/mathi.h:59: error: syntax error before "sizeof" mk: cc -c -g ... : exit status=exit(1) mk: for j in ... : exit status=exit(1) loops# Unusual error. It doesn't like the isnan() forward declaration. I "fixed" it by renaming it to i_isnan in include/mathi.h, libinterp/math.c, limbo/nodes.c, and libmath/fdlibm/s_isnan.c. isnan() under FreBSD has the method signature int isnan(real-floating x);, and the man page says: HISTORY The fpclassify(), isfinite(), isinf(), isnan(), and isnormal() macros were added in FreeBSD 5.1. 3BSD introduced isinf() and isnan() func- tions, which accepted double arguments; these have been superseded by the macros described above. Faried. -- The Great GNU has arrived, infidels, behold his wrath ! "We have nothing to fear from free information but pop-up advertising!" continuations are hard. let's go []! -- 'barbie From agro.dp.ua!mvb Mon Jun 7 14:55:14 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mail.agro.dp.ua ([195.177.240.5]) by doppio; Mon Jun 7 14:55:14 BST 2004 Received: from mvb.agrosoyuz.com ([10.1.0.244]) (authenticated user mvb@agro.dp.ua) by agro.dp.ua (mail.agro.dp.ua [192.168.1.5]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.4.R) with ESMTP id 23-md50000000290.tmp for ; Mon, 07 Jun 2004 16:43:39 +0300 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:49:51 +0300 From: Vladimir Machulsky X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.00.6) Business X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <16230134551.20040607164951@agro.dp.ua> To: Faried Nawaz Subject: Re[2]: [inferno-list] freebsd 5.2.1, unwrapping the install files In-Reply-To: <20040607131911.GA62312@nilpotent.org> References: <831121051.20040607084618@agro.dp.ua> <4618163117.20040607133020@agro.dp.ua> <20040607131911.GA62312@nilpotent.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-Sender: mvb@agro.dp.ua X-Spam-Processed: mail.agro.dp.ua, Mon, 07 Jun 2004 16:43:39 +0300 (not processed: spam filter disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 10.1.0.244 X-Return-Path: mvb@agro.dp.ua X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com FN> [...] FN> (cd libmath; mk ROOT=/u/inferno.build SYSHOST=FreeBSD OBJTYPE=386 all) FN> /u/inferno.build/FreeBSD/386/lib/libmath.a doesn't exist: assuming it will be an archive FN> cc -c -g -O -Wno-deprecated-declarations -Wuninitialized FN> -Wunused -Wreturn-type -Wimplicit FN> -I/u/inferno.build/FreeBSD/386/include -I/u/inferno.build/include FN> -I/usr/X11R6/include -DFREEBSD_386 blas.c FN> In file included from blas.c:2: FN> /u/inferno.build/include/mathi.h:59: error: syntax error before "sizeof" FN> mk: cc -c -g ... : exit status=exit(1) FN> mk: for j in ... : exit status=exit(1) FN> loops# FN> Unusual error. It doesn't like the isnan() forward declaration. FN> I "fixed" it by renaming it to i_isnan in include/mathi.h, libinterp/math.c, FN> limbo/nodes.c, and libmath/fdlibm/s_isnan.c. isnan() under FreBSD has the FN> method signature int isnan(real-floating x);, and the man page says: try to insert before isnan() declaration (include/mathi.h) following lines: #ifdef isnan #undef isnan #endif be ready for more similar errors in building process. -- Best regards, Vladimir mailto:mvb@agro.dp.ua From forsyth Mon Jun 7 15:15:36 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] freebsd 5.2.1, unwrapping the install files From: C H Forsyth Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:15:36 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040607131911.GA62312@nilpotent.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>I applied just the tramp() part of your patch; that was sufficient to get it >>to work. I now have two emu sessions up and running -- one as a signer and that's odd: in 5.2.1 does sigaction(2) not say that After a fork(2) or vfork(2) all signals, the signal mask, the signal stack, and the restart/interrupt flags are inherited by the child. (of course, i'm using rfork, which isn't covered by that, but i'm curious whether the statement has changed). i suppose i'm also assuming rfork processes do use separate signal settings unless RFSIGSHARE is specified (which we don't), as promised by rfork(2). how many variants of the rfork implementation are there? From nilpotent.org!silence Mon Jun 7 17:00:44 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from loops.nilpotent.org ([12.17.163.70]) by doppio; Mon Jun 7 17:00:44 BST 2004 Received: (qmail 63426 invoked by uid 200); 7 Jun 2004 15:55:08 -0000 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:55:08 -0700 From: Faried Nawaz To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] freebsd 5.2.1, unwrapping the install files Message-ID: <20040607155508.GA63220@nilpotent.org> References: <20040607131911.GA62312@nilpotent.org> <334be4e93a1d96d82676601025ff7519@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <334be4e93a1d96d82676601025ff7519@vitanuova.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Organization: Integral Domains X-Face: ($1_|:l_nh<,*_F'yGU*.;qOl'7xB*M-79g!4d0b^6o52l|-+_j,T8QOU[t!J<$-Q|G^=S)9|Twlm<}1x(.oc^SxIu3x|:k6xKKw;df8IDa="{*}qfExX kLhA''9=#Z5,w:gZekpP7DR'\s!rH]yT0|Q;R+g[HJ C H Forsyth wrote: that's odd: in 5.2.1 does sigaction(2) not say that After a fork(2) or vfork(2) all signals, the signal mask, the signal stack, and the restart/interrupt flags are inherited by the child. It does say that. See http://www.hungry.com/~fn/tmp/sigaction.2 http://www.hungry.com/~fn/tmp/rfork.2 how many variants of the rfork implementation are there? I don't know if it'll change before the new kernel threading mechanism is complete. Try asking on the freebsd-arch@freebsd.org list. Faried. -- The Great GNU has arrived, infidels, behold his wrath ! "We have nothing to fear from free information but pop-up advertising!" continuations are hard. let's go []! -- 'barbie From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon Jun 7 21:19:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon Jun 7 21:19:28 BST 2004 Message-ID: <4123d2070f1d1eea1701c061b8daa28e@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] freebsd 5.2.1, unwrapping the install files From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:16:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040607155508.GA63220@nilpotent.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>It does say that. See >>http://www.hungry.com/~fn/tmp/sigaction.2 >>http://www.hungry.com/~fn/tmp/rfork.2 yes: in which case i didn't understand how the change to tramp() could make a difference. obviously it did, but it shouldn't have. fortunately it looks as though setting the mask should be a no-op on the systems on which emu already works, so i could simply make the change in the common source. on the other hand, i don't think that's the only signal state that needs to be right, so i'd still like to know what i'm really supposed to do. you're probably right that i should ask a freebsd list. anyhow, i've found a spare machine on which i can install freebsd 5.x; so, we'll see. From ti.com!cbarrera Tue Jun 8 04:22:31 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from dragon.ti.com ([192.94.94.33]) by doppio; Tue Jun 8 04:22:31 BST 2004 Received: from dmhp30.itg.ti.com ([134.183.41.209]) by dragon.ti.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i583GrOk006324 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 22:16:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ti.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dmhp30.itg.ti.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i583Gq6I028950 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 12:16:53 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <40C53063.7050800@ti.com> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:20:03 +0900 From: Christopher Barrera User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit matt@juice.thebigchoice.com wrote: >Chris - you know you are talking to a whole list of acme users who dumped vi a long time ago ? > > When ACME runs on UNIX and other OS's outside of Plan9/Inferno, I will seriously consider it. But hey, live and let live, my choices for me I am sure are fine by you, so long as I don't annoy you with them. >if you want vi you know where to find it, it's there next to gcc > > Never considered compiling it for Inferno, but hey why not? >really, no-one has the heart or strong enough stomach to develop a cursor addressing console based editor to use with inferno, it just isn't practical. If you are running in a hosted environemnt, use the tools in the host. > > > I am not asking anyone to develop anything, nor was I even promoting VI to anyone. The purpose of my previous message was to discuss a certain train of thought about graphical vs. non-graphical tools and environments that I see all too commonly in many areas, outside of the context of Inferno and editors. That is why I opted to not focus on editors themselves. >you shan't start a editor war because the peace treaty was signed a long time ago > > Peace then! Chris Barrera From ducky.net!mike Tue Jun 8 05:42:17 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ducky.net ([66.93.167.66]) by doppio; Tue Jun 8 05:42:17 BST 2004 Received: from ducky.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ducky.net (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i584aesK044618 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:36:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@ducky.net) Received: (from mike@localhost) by ducky.net (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id i584aetR044617 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:36:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:36:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Haertel Message-Id: <200406080436.i584aetR044617@ducky.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? In-Reply-To: <40C53063.7050800@ti.com> >When ACME runs on UNIX and other OS's outside of Plan9/Inferno, I will >seriously consider it. See http://www.swtch.com/plan9port. From gmail.com!russcox Tue Jun 8 06:17:18 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.248]) by doppio; Tue Jun 8 06:17:18 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so173486cwb for ; Mon, 07 Jun 2004 22:11:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.98.16 with SMTP id v16mr94382cwb; Mon, 07 Jun 2004 20:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 23:24:59 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? In-Reply-To: <40C53063.7050800@ti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <40C53063.7050800@ti.com> > When ACME runs on UNIX and other OS's outside of Plan9/Inferno, I will http://swtch.com/plan9port Russ From ericsson.com!bengt.kleberg Tue Jun 8 08:51:43 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from eagle.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.53]) by doppio; Tue Jun 8 08:51:43 BST 2004 Received: from esealmw142.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.119]) by eagle.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id i587k3Ah008809 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 09:46:07 +0200 Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by esealmw142.al.sw.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 8 Jun 2004 09:46:03 +0200 Received: from wsb017.uab.ericsson.se ([134.138.232.116]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id MFZWG4TY; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 09:46:02 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wsb017.uab.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/client-1.3uab4) id i587k2g05762; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 09:46:02 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <40C56EBA.3040307@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 09:46:02 +0200 X-Sybari-Trust: 99613b53 08d63d2e c80d5458 00000138 From: Bengt Kleberg User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040503) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? References: <40C53063.7050800@ti.com> In-Reply-To: <40C53063.7050800@ti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jun 2004 07:46:03.0194 (UTC) FILETIME=[A5FD09A0:01C44D2C] Christopher Barrera wrote: ...deleted >> > When ACME runs on UNIX and other OS's outside of Plan9/Inferno, I will > seriously consider it. But hey, live and let live, my choices for me I > the ''real'' acme is available at http://swtch.com/plan9port. if you have problems with building/running it, i would recommend wily. that is an acme clone available at http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~oz/wily it seems to work on more unices than the plan9port version. bengt From anothy.9srv.net!inferno Tue Jun 8 16:29:24 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 9srv.net ([66.134.100.77]) by doppio; Tue Jun 8 16:29:24 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([193.195.87.253]) by 9srv.net; Tue Jun 8 11:23:43 EDT 2004 X-warning: suspect envelope domain X-warning: suspect From: domain In-Reply-To: <4b4fe53ee76be592332da63639a9d777@terzarima.net> References: <4b4fe53ee76be592332da63639a9d777@terzarima.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-15-1021633271 Message-Id: Cc: russcox@gmail.com From: Anthony Sorace Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Bug(s?) in Inferno mk Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 14:56:55 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) --Apple-Mail-15-1021633271 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I've constructed an example mkfile which exhibits the behavior described (all three bugs). The mkfile is attached; inline is a commented version of usage. Two of the three bugs are visable in the usage here; the third (\\1 instead of \1 for () matching) is worked-around in the attached mkfile. Much thanks for all assistance. # Just to make sure we're clean : unix; mk nuke rm -f *.txt *.out *.pre # Note that it does an echo, a sed, an echo, a sed, a cat, a sort, and repeats (and then moves on). : unix; mk -n push rm -f *.txt *.out *.pre echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Fruit-In-Summary-export.out 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Fruit-In-Summary-export.out > Fruit-In-Summary-export.pre echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Fruit-Out-Summary-export.out 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Fruit-Out-Summary-export.out > Fruit-Out-Summary-export.pre cat Fruit-*-Summary-export.pre > Fruit-Summary.out sort -u -k 1,3 -t '|' < Fruit-Summary.out > Fruit-Summary-export.txt echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Fruit-In-Detail-export.out 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Fruit-In-Detail-export.out > Fruit-In-Detail-export.pre echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Fruit-Out-Detail-export.out 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Fruit-Out-Detail-export.out > Fruit-Out-Detail-export.pre cat Fruit-*-Detail-export.pre > Fruit-Detail.out sort -u -k 1,3 -t '|' < Fruit-Detail.out > Fruit-Detail-export.txt echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Veg-In-orig-export.out 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Veg-In-orig-export.out > Veg-In-orig-export.pre cp Veg-In-orig-export.pre Veg-In-orig-export.txt echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Veg-In-errors-export.out 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Veg-In-errors-export.out > Veg-In-errors-export.pre 9sed -e 's/(^[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9]+\|[0-9]+) for [0-9]+(\|.+)/\1\2/g; s/(^[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9]+\|)R?ESUB FOR[0-9]+(\|.+)/\1\2/ ' < Veg-In-errors-export.pre > Veg-In-errors-export.txt echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Veg-Out-orig-export.out 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Veg-Out-orig-export.out > Veg-Out-orig-export.pre cp Veg-Out-orig-export.pre Veg-Out-orig-export.txt echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Veg-Out-errors-export.out 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Veg-Out-errors-export.out > Veg-Out-errors-export.pre 9sed -e 's/(^[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9]+\|[0-9]+) for [0-9]+(\|.+)/\1\2/g; s/(^[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9]+\|)R?ESUB FOR[0-9]+(\|.+)/\1\2/ ' < Veg-Out-errors-export.pre > Veg-Out-errors-export.txt echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Routes-export.out 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Routes-export.out > Routes-export.pre cp Routes-export.pre Routes-export.txt echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Customers-export.out 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Customers-export.out > Customers-export.pre cp Customers-export.pre Customers-export.txt rc -c 'for (i in *-export.txt) {scp $i $EXTARG}' # Whereas here, doing the same thing but for real, it does all the echos first. : unix; mk push rm -f *.txt *.out *.pre echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Fruit-In-Summary-export.out echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Fruit-Out-Summary-export.out echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Fruit-In-Detail-export.out echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Fruit-Out-Detail-export.out echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Veg-In-orig-export.out echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Veg-In-errors-export.out echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Veg-Out-orig-export.out echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Veg-Out-errors-export.out echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Routes-export.out echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > Customers-export.out rc -c 'for (i in *-export.txt) {scp $i $EXTARG}' usage: scp [-pqrvBC1246] [-F config] [-S program] [-P port] [-c cipher] [-i identity] [-l limit] [-o option] [[user@]host1:]file1 [...] [[user@]host2:]file2 mk: rc -c 'for ... : exit status=exit(1) # The next error shows up with or without -n: it notices the .out files exist, so wants to skip generating them, but then the rm removes them. : unix; mk -n push rm -f *.txt *.out *.pre 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Fruit-In-Summary-export.out > Fruit-In-Summary-export.pre 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Fruit-Out-Summary-export.out > Fruit-Out-Summary-export.pre cat Fruit-*-Summary-export.pre > Fruit-Summary.out sort -u -k 1,3 -t '|' < Fruit-Summary.out > Fruit-Summary-export.txt 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Fruit-In-Detail-export.out > Fruit-In-Detail-export.pre 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Fruit-Out-Detail-export.out > Fruit-Out-Detail-export.pre cat Fruit-*-Detail-export.pre > Fruit-Detail.out sort -u -k 1,3 -t '|' < Fruit-Detail.out > Fruit-Detail-export.txt 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Veg-In-orig-export.out > Veg-In-orig-export.pre cp Veg-In-orig-export.pre Veg-In-orig-export.txt 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Veg-In-errors-export.out > Veg-In-errors-export.pre 9sed -e 's/(^[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9]+\|[0-9]+) for [0-9]+(\|.+)/\1\2/g; s/(^[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9]+\|)R?ESUB FOR[0-9]+(\|.+)/\1\2/ ' < Veg-In-errors-export.pre > Veg-In-errors-export.txt 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Veg-Out-orig-export.out > Veg-Out-orig-export.pre cp Veg-Out-orig-export.pre Veg-Out-orig-export.txt 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Veg-Out-errors-export.out > Veg-Out-errors-export.pre 9sed -e 's/(^[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9]+\|[0-9]+) for [0-9]+(\|.+)/\1\2/g; s/(^[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9]+\|)R?ESUB FOR[0-9]+(\|.+)/\1\2/ ' < Veg-Out-errors-export.pre > Veg-Out-errors-export.txt 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Routes-export.out > Routes-export.pre cp Routes-export.pre Routes-export.txt 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Customers-export.out > Customers-export.pre cp Customers-export.pre Customers-export.txt rc -c 'for (i in *-export.txt) {scp $i $EXTARG}' : unix; mk push rm -f *.txt *.out *.pre 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < Fruit-In-Summary-export.out > Fruit-In-Summary-export.pre sh: line 1: Fruit-In-Summary-export.out: No such file or directory mk: 9sed -e 's/\| ... : exit status=exit(1) --Apple-Mail-15-1021633271 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/octet-stream; x-unix-mode=0644; name="mkfile" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=mkfile none:V: echo usage: mk push, export, upload... push:V: nuke export upload clean:V: rm -f *.out *.pre nuke:V: rm -f *.txt *.out *.pre export:V: frt.export veg.export admin.export upload:V: rc -c 'for (i in *-export.txt) {scp $i $EXTARG}' frt.export:V: Fruit-Summary-export.txt Fruit-Detail-export.txt veg.export:V: Veg-In-orig-export.txt Veg-In-errors-export.txt \ Veg-Out-orig-export.txt Veg-Out-errors-export.txt admin.export:V: Routes-export.txt Customers-export.txt %.out: echo 'SOME|TEST| 000| 000|test data|do not use this anywhere|' > $stem.out %.pre: %.out 9sed -e 's/\| +/\|/g' < $prereq > $target Fruit-Summary-export.txt: Fruit-In-Summary-export.pre Fruit-Out-Summary-export.pre cat Fruit-*-Summary-export.pre > Fruit-Summary.out sort -u -k 1,3 -t '|' < Fruit-Summary.out > Fruit-Summary-export.txt Fruit-Detail-export.txt: Fruit-In-Detail-export.pre Fruit-Out-Detail-export.pre cat Fruit-*-Detail-export.pre > Fruit-Detail.out sort -u -k 1,3 -t '|' < Fruit-Detail.out > Fruit-Detail-export.txt Veg-(In|Out)-errors-export.txt:R: Veg-\\1-errors-export.pre 9sed -e 's/(^[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9]+\|[0-9]+) for [0-9]+(\|.+)/\1\2/g; s/(^[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9A-Za-z]+\|[0-9]+\|)R?ESUB FOR[0-9]+(\|.+)/\1\2/ ' < $prereq > $target Veg-(In|Out)-orig-export.txt:R: Veg-\\1-orig-export.pre cp $prereq $target (Customers|Routes)-export.txt:R: \\1-export.pre cp $prereq $target --Apple-Mail-15-1021633271-- From xaplos.com!macrod Tue Jun 8 16:38:16 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.66]) by doppio; Tue Jun 8 16:38:16 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040608153239.UIF25249.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 11:32:39 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: Nios II Platform Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 11:32:33 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcRNbdEvKbp0DUtoRn+HUHOG99rn+w== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20040608153239.UIF25249.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Now that the new Nios II platform is available from Altera, has anyone been doing anything with it? More specifically is anyone working on a port of Inferno to this platform? Thanks, -Mark From forsyth Tue Jun 8 16:48:21 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com CC: russcox@gmail.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Bug(s?) in Inferno mk From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 16:48:21 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i see the trouble with \\. it is a `feature'. it uses a different quoting scheme on sh platforms compared to rc. i suppose it makes sense for recipes and `...` but it seems wrong for rule elements, and contrary to the documentation. i think it's easy to fix, but we'll see... From rog Tue Jun 8 17:02:11 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:02:11 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <171ff32204a732f4a0f1db84b3a78b79@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > more important, i also forgot to mention that i almost > always connect an external 3-button mouse to my Thinkpad, > even though the Thinkpad has got three buttons on board. > acme is much smoother with a real mouse for what it's worth, i also use acme with a Thinkpad, and although to start with i also plugged in an external mouse, i now don't bother - the trackpoint plus three buttons has become totally natural, which is great, as it means i don't need a flat surface to use my laptop with rio/acme. i use two hands, one for the trackpoint, one for the buttons. in fact, i've just realised that i tend to use a different hand on the trackpoint when i don't use the buttons. my only fear is that i won't be able to get a trackpoint-only laptop when this one bites the dust. those pad things are quite horrible. From forsyth Tue Jun 8 17:03:47 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Nios II Platform From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:03:47 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040608153239.UIF25249.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it might be worth noting that in general, if i have got a board, i'll typically do a basic port to it. time to port is approximately inversely proportional to the exchange of gold, though with some progress even when the latter tends towards or reaches 0 (but it might be slow), and then becomes a function of other demands on time and level of personal interest. not to mention overall difficulty, presence or absence of at least one LED, and buggy hardware. as with unsolicited manuscripts, it's best to check first. even more so, because manuscripts are easier to copy than boards. From forsyth Tue Jun 8 17:05:00 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:05:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>the trackpoint plus three buttons has become totally natural, which is note that climbing rocks is totally natural to roger as well. From gmail.com!russcox Tue Jun 8 17:09:24 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.247]) by doppio; Tue Jun 8 17:09:24 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so182531cwb for ; Tue, 08 Jun 2004 09:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.34 with SMTP id x34mr111347cwb; Tue, 08 Jun 2004 09:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 12:03:47 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] console based editor? In-Reply-To: <41c92438057882e4e114b9a0f6c778f4@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <41c92438057882e4e114b9a0f6c778f4@vitanuova.com> > my only fear is that i won't be able to get a trackpoint-only laptop > when this one bites the dust. those pad things are quite horrible. you can disable the pad on the new thinkpads. From cs.indiana.edu!geobrown Tue Jun 8 17:40:01 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu ([129.79.254.191]) by doppio; Tue Jun 8 17:40:01 BST 2004 Received: from cs.indiana.edu (bl-csci-54207.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.246.133]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUCS_2.61) with ESMTP id i58GYOqk014005 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 11:34:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40C5EA8A.7010104@cs.indiana.edu> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 11:34:18 -0500 From: Geoffrey Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Nios II Platform References: <20040608153239.UIF25249.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> In-Reply-To: <20040608153239.UIF25249.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The biggest problem is the question of tools. I got inferno to run on Nios I using the standard Nios tools only by "fixing" a lot of the non-ansi C. Alternatively one could do a compiler port. The actual device specific code you have to write is modest. I did not bother getting the ethernet interface working -- here you need a device driver for the appropriate ethernet controller. Another alternative is to port an emulator environment. There is a basic thread package for Nios II as well as a lightweight IP stack. Since the emulator environment has already been massaged to play nice with GCC, this could be a much shorter path. I haven't been pushing forward on this lately, because we're much more interested in implementing simple "file" servers on the Nios rather than the full blown Inferno. For example, libstyx with a primitive TCP/IP stack takes 10's of Kbytes, whereas Inferno takes hundreds. I'm still waiting for a software update to Nios II. It's unclear whether they've actually shipped this. Geoffrey Mark F Rodriguez wrote: >Now that the new Nios II platform is available from Altera, has anyone been >doing anything with it? More specifically is anyone working on a port of >Inferno to this platform? > >Thanks, >-Mark > > > From xaplos.com!macrod Tue Jun 8 18:13:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.71]) by doppio; Tue Jun 8 18:13:52 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040608170815.FGGH24541.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:08:15 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Nios II Platform Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:08:08 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <9e8d15c9a411280742ec5f8cd42fb6a4@vitanuova.com> Thread-Index: AcRNdBUsrmsfSO3FR8CVaL3/ckdeewABdjdA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20040608170815.FGGH24541.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > time to port is approximately inversely proportional to the exchange of > gold, No gold to offer, but do you accept stock options:-) Seriously, I might be able to arrange for a development board, but I'm kind of interested in doing [at least some] things myself. At this point I feel pretty comfortable with Inferno's distribution / directory structure, Limbo and core principles (i.e., bind, channels, threads, etc.). I haven't spent too much time looking into Inferno OS or platform specific items, but this would be a good exercise. I will definitely keep your "offer" in mind. At least now I know I won't be reinventing the wheel. Thanks, -Mark From rog Tue Jun 8 18:55:49 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ports to inferno Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 18:55:49 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <006101c44c39$64ae5510$6401a8c0@oak> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > is anyone working on porting vacfs to inferno? i was going to do this, but only got as far as venti(2). any advance on this would be welcome! From gmail.com!russcox Tue Jun 8 19:12:34 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.252]) by doppio; Tue Jun 8 19:12:34 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so184542cwb for ; Tue, 08 Jun 2004 11:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.72 with SMTP id x72mr115641cwb; Tue, 08 Jun 2004 11:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 14:06:55 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ports to inferno In-Reply-To: <8130e31fe80de3977f8595ad77e15540@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <8130e31fe80de3977f8595ad77e15540@vitanuova.com> if you're interested in porting vacfs and vac to inferno, please start with the c code from the plan 9 ports tree and not the c code from the plan 9 distribution. the former has been significantly reorganized and works much better as a library. eventually it will replace the code in the plan 9 distribution, but first i need to convert venti (the server) and fossil. russ From rog Tue Jun 8 19:25:10 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ports to inferno Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 19:25:10 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > if you're interested in porting vacfs and vac to inferno, > please start with the c code from the plan 9 ports tree hurray, it's been lowercased! From cooper.edu!salomo3 Tue Jun 8 23:00:26 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wish.cooper.edu ([199.98.16.74]) by doppio; Tue Jun 8 23:00:26 BST 2004 Received: by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix, from userid 94) id 2B8953939; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:40:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wish.cooper.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wish.cooper.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F99D3937 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:40:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 63.165.50.175 (SquirrelMail authenticated user salomo3) by wish.cooper.edu with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:40:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2901.63.165.50.175.1086730803.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:40:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ports to inferno From: "Joel Salomon" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-9.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) X-Sanitizer: This message has been sanitized! X-Sanitizer-URL: http://mailtools.anomy.net/ X-Sanitizer-Rev: $Id: Sanitizer.pm,v 1.64 2002/10/22 16:37:04 bre Exp $ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable rog@vitanuova.com said: > hurray, it's been lowercased! > Lucky you. I've got to deal with StuddlyCaps and Magyar notation. --Joel From comcast.net!caerwyn Tue Jun 8 23:19:22 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.202.55]) by doppio; Tue Jun 8 23:19:22 BST 2004 Received: from [192.168.1.180] (h000c41af2c71.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.7.243]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <20040608221343011001i6gue> (Authid: caerwyn); Tue, 8 Jun 2004 22:13:43 +0000 Message-ID: <40C63A19.8000104@comcast.net> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 18:13:45 -0400 From: Caerwyn Jones User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (X11/20040502) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ports to inferno References: <8130e31fe80de3977f8595ad77e15540@vitanuova.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Russ Cox wrote: > please start with the c code from the plan 9 ports tree ok. i'll go with that. the readme says it's buggered. i hope it's not serious. -caerwyn From gmail.com!russcox Wed Jun 9 00:00:04 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.247]) by doppio; Wed Jun 9 00:00:04 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x43so189159cwb for ; Tue, 08 Jun 2004 15:54:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.34 with SMTP id x34mr125766cwb; Tue, 08 Jun 2004 15:54:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 18:54:25 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ports to inferno In-Reply-To: <40C63A19.8000104@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <8130e31fe80de3977f8595ad77e15540@vitanuova.com> <40C63A19.8000104@comcast.net> > ok. i'll go with that. the readme says it's buggered. > i hope it's not serious. the server is still quite buggered but the library is solid. russ From eth.net!vsreedhar Wed Jun 9 14:26:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ETH.NET ([202.9.145.21]) by doppio; Wed Jun 9 14:26:52 BST 2004 Received: from CHNISO01.eth.net ([202.9.178.23]) by ETH.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:44:04 +0530 Message-ID: <000601c44e24$d0546ec0$c46e41db@iyarkai> From: "V.Sreedhar" To: References: <40C53063.7050800@ti.com> <40C56EBA.3040307@ericsson.com> Subject: unsigned int and bit shifting Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:51:31 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: vsreedhar@eth.net X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jun 2004 13:14:04.0796 (UTC) FILETIME=[A38CEBC0:01C44E23] How do I circumvent the lack of unsigned int and unsigned bitshift operations in Limbo ? While attempting to port 7-Zip's LZMA decompression algorithm into Limbo, I got stuck at the following runtime scenario, which is simplified as follows: -- C version -- unsigned int decode (unsigned int value) { return (value >> 11) * 1056; } ---- At runtime, invoking "decode(-1880679424)" returned "1244866656". -- Limbo version -- decode (value: int): int { return (value >> 11) * 1056; } ---- invoking "decode(-1880679424)" returned "-969725856", which is not an expected result and hence the logic breaks. I looked into Limbo ports of gzip and various encryptions, and I am yet to get a clue, to circumvent this problem. Please help. Thank you, Regards, Sreedhar. From rog Wed Jun 9 14:32:04 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] unsigned int and bit shifting Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 14:32:04 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <000601c44e24$d0546ec0$c46e41db@iyarkai> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > unsigned int decode (unsigned int value) { > return (value >> 11) * 1056; > } well, you can always mask off the sign-extension bits: decode(value: int): int { return ((value >> 11) & 16r1fffff) * 1056; } From infernopark.com!vdharani Wed Jun 9 16:33:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plain.rackshack.net ([207.44.192.47]) by doppio; Wed Jun 9 16:33:45 BST 2004 Received: from www.infernopark.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by plain.rackshack.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i59KbS04011697 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:37:28 -0500 Received: from 192.11.226.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:37:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <64170.192.11.226.116.1086813448.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> In-Reply-To: <000601c44e24$d0546ec0$c46e41db@iyarkai> References: <40C53063.7050800@ti.com> <40C56EBA.3040307@ericsson.com> <000601c44e24$d0546ec0$c46e41db@iyarkai> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:37:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] unsigned int and bit shifting From: vdharani@infernopark.com To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal > How do I circumvent the lack of unsigned int and > unsigned bitshift operations in Limbo ? not sure, but wouldnt converting the value to big or array of byte help? in case of array of byte, a function called shr(ab: array of byte, n: int) could do the trick. but yes, it is all costly. lack of 'unsigned int' is a problem particularly when porting C code to limbo and standard explicitly mentions that the field should be unsigned. i think people managed to live with 'int' rather than pressing for 'unsigned int'. > While attempting to port 7-Zip's LZMA decompression algorithm > into Limbo, I got stuck at the following runtime scenario, which > is simplified as follows: > > -- C version -- > unsigned int decode (unsigned int value) { > return (value >> 11) * 1056; > } > ---- > At runtime, invoking "decode(-1880679424)" returned "1244866656". > > > -- Limbo version -- > decode (value: int): int { > return (value >> 11) * 1056; > } > ---- > invoking "decode(-1880679424)" returned "-969725856", which is not > an expected result and hence the logic breaks. > > I looked into Limbo ports of gzip and various encryptions, and I am yet to > get a clue, to circumvent this problem. > > Please help. > > Thank you, > > Regards, > Sreedhar. > > From mipk.kharkiv.edu!wlad Thu Jun 10 08:23:51 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from flash.mipk.kharkiv.edu ([194.44.157.113]) by doppio; Thu Jun 10 08:23:51 BST 2004 Received: from mipk.kharkiv.edu (sunrise.mipk.kharkiv.edu [192.168.9.136]) by flash.mipk.kharkiv.edu (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i5A6CEP7086928 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:12:21 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from wlad@mipk.kharkiv.edu) Message-ID: <40C7FC45.8020105@mipk.kharkiv.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:14:29 +0300 From: Vladimir Los Organization: IIAT NTU "KhPI" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: ru, uk, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: hello, everyone! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am newbe in Inferno. Is anybody here who can say me where I can get native Inferno 4? From forsyth Thu Jun 10 08:52:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:52:20 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] hello, everyone! In-Reply-To: <40C7FC45.8020105@mipk.kharkiv.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lhipvyqfoxltzvkljnydzgyckf" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lhipvyqfoxltzvkljnydzgyckf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/downloads.html --upas-lhipvyqfoxltzvkljnydzgyckf Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from flash.mipk.kharkiv.edu ([194.44.157.113]) by doppio; Thu Jun 10 08:23:51 BST 2004 Received: from mipk.kharkiv.edu (sunrise.mipk.kharkiv.edu [192.168.9.136]) by flash.mipk.kharkiv.edu (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i5A6CEP7086928 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:12:21 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from wlad@mipk.kharkiv.edu) Message-ID: <40C7FC45.8020105@mipk.kharkiv.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:14:29 +0300 From: Vladimir Los Organization: IIAT NTU "KhPI" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: ru, uk, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [inferno-list] hello, everyone! Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk I am newbe in Inferno. Is anybody here who can say me where I can get native Inferno 4? --upas-lhipvyqfoxltzvkljnydzgyckf-- From kp.km.ua!plan9 Thu Jun 10 09:08:37 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from infocom.km.ua ([195.46.36.1]) by doppio; Thu Jun 10 09:08:37 BST 2004 Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [195.135.202.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.11/8.12.11/ic) with ESMTP id i5A82u2E062819 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:02:57 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup03.kp.km.ua [195.135.202.18]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.11/8.12.9/kp-branch) with SMTP id i5A82ssO068372 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:02:55 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" From: andrey kukhar Reply-To: plan9@kp.km.ua To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] hello, everyone! Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:09:18 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <40C7FC45.8020105@mipk.kharkiv.edu> In-Reply-To: <40C7FC45.8020105@mipk.kharkiv.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <04061011075200.00531@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Is anybody here who can say me where I can get native > Inferno 4? i can't point you to place from where you can download native system, but i can give you a link to paper that describes procedure how to make such thing: www.ece.cmu.edu/~pstanley/ipwl/nativeinferno.html kyxap From forsyth Thu Jun 10 09:54:18 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] hello, everyone! From: C H Forsyth Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:54:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: <04061011075200.00531@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wmyzgvvvcukhzxvgsprvuqjqbj" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wmyzgvvvcukhzxvgsprvuqjqbj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the normal downloads for 4th edition have for some time included sample native ports for various targets, to whatever degree of completeness we needed ourselves for one purpose or another! --upas-wmyzgvvvcukhzxvgsprvuqjqbj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from infocom.km.ua ([195.46.36.1]) by doppio; Thu Jun 10 09:08:37 BST 2004 Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [195.135.202.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.11/8.12.11/ic) with ESMTP id i5A82u2E062819 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:02:57 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup03.kp.km.ua [195.135.202.18]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.11/8.12.9/kp-branch) with SMTP id i5A82ssO068372 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:02:55 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" From: andrey kukhar To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:09:18 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <40C7FC45.8020105@mipk.kharkiv.edu> In-Reply-To: <40C7FC45.8020105@mipk.kharkiv.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <04061011075200.00531@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [inferno-list] hello, everyone! Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk > Is anybody here who can say me where I can get native > Inferno 4? i can't point you to place from where you can download native system, but i can give you a link to paper that describes procedure how to make such thing: www.ece.cmu.edu/~pstanley/ipwl/nativeinferno.html kyxap --upas-wmyzgvvvcukhzxvgsprvuqjqbj-- From forsyth Thu Jun 10 09:55:42 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] hello, everyone! From: C H Forsyth Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:55:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>the normal downloads for 4th edition have for some time ... and i recently changed it to eliminate the click through page for 4th edition, although to judge from the access times on the old click-past scripts there must still be copies in caches somewhere, since they are still being touched. From mipk.kharkiv.edu!wlad Thu Jun 10 11:16:59 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from flash.mipk.kharkiv.edu ([194.44.157.113]) by doppio; Thu Jun 10 11:16:59 BST 2004 Received: from mipk.kharkiv.edu (sunrise.mipk.kharkiv.edu [192.168.9.136]) by flash.mipk.kharkiv.edu (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i5AAAa1W095976 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:10:39 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from wlad@mipk.kharkiv.edu) Message-ID: <40C83422.60404@mipk.kharkiv.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:12:50 +0300 From: Vladimir Los Organization: IIAT NTU "KhPI" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: ru, uk, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] hello, everyone! References: <40C7FC45.8020105@mipk.kharkiv.edu> <04061011075200.00531@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <04061011075200.00531@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit andrey kukhar wrote: >>Is anybody here who can say me where I can get native >>Inferno 4? > > > i can't point you to place from where you can download > native system, but i can give you a link to paper that > describes procedure how to make such thing: > www.ece.cmu.edu/~pstanley/ipwl/nativeinferno.html > > kyxap Have any plans to tranclate it and place it on your plan9/inferno pages? From mipk.kharkiv.edu!wlad Thu Jun 10 11:30:34 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from flash.mipk.kharkiv.edu ([194.44.157.113]) by doppio; Thu Jun 10 11:30:34 BST 2004 Received: from mipk.kharkiv.edu (sunrise.mipk.kharkiv.edu [192.168.9.136]) by flash.mipk.kharkiv.edu (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i5AAMa6p096276 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:22:38 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from wlad@mipk.kharkiv.edu) Message-ID: <40C836F2.7090102@mipk.kharkiv.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:24:50 +0300 From: Vladimir Los Organization: IIAT NTU "KhPI" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: ru, uk, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] hello, everyone! References: <71bcc9138ce09a082725e98963f59738@vitanuova.com> In-Reply-To: <71bcc9138ce09a082725e98963f59738@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit C H Forsyth wrote: > http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/downloads.html Thanks! Of course I've just downloaded CD. BUT! as I can see it isn't bootable... I only can install Inferno as a hosted system... Unfortunatly I couldn't install Inferno over W2K. I do not know why. I ran setup.exe from :\install\ Installation windows appeared And this text was printed: ------------------------------------------ Looking for Emu ... Found \Nt\386\bin\emu.exe Usage: emu [options...] [file.dis [args...]] -gXxY -c[0-9] -d file.dis -s -v -p=maxsize -f -r -7 -G -C -S EOF from Emu Saving Inferno root in Registry ..... DONE Creating start-menu item ............ DONE Installation completed --------------------------------------------- C:\Inferno was created. But it is empty! What do I do wrong? And of course I would to obtain NATIVE installation into separate partition... Thanks From kp.km.ua!plan9 Thu Jun 10 20:40:07 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from infocom.km.ua ([195.46.36.1]) by doppio; Thu Jun 10 20:40:07 BST 2004 Received: from kp.km.ua (root@kp.km.ua [195.135.202.2]) by infocom.km.ua (8.12.11/8.12.11/ic) with ESMTP id i5AJYQct058035 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:34:27 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dialup10.kp.km.ua [195.135.202.25]) by kp.km.ua (8.12.11/8.12.9/kp-branch) with SMTP id i5AJYMYD048797 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:34:23 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from plan9@kp.km.ua) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" From: andrey kukhar Reply-To: plan9@kp.km.ua To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] hello, everyone! Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:40:34 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <40C7FC45.8020105@mipk.kharkiv.edu> <04061011075200.00531@localhost.localdomain> <40C83422.60404@mipk.kharkiv.edu> In-Reply-To: <40C83422.60404@mipk.kharkiv.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <04061015101400.00527@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://ask.km.ru/plan9/doc/inferno.html kyxap ps i have only this inferno page. > andrey kukhar wrote: > >>Is anybody here who can say me where I can get native > >>Inferno 4? > > > > i can't point you to place from where you can download > > native system, but i can give you a link to paper that > > describes procedure how to make such thing: > > www.ece.cmu.edu/~pstanley/ipwl/nativeinferno.html > > > > kyxap > > Have any plans to tranclate it and place it on your > plan9/inferno pages? From yahoo.com!rahul_mahajan_343 Fri Jun 11 09:33:21 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from web53308.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.39.237]) by doppio; Fri Jun 11 09:33:21 BST 2004 Message-ID: <20040611082103.6165.qmail@web53308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.200.20.91] by web53308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:21:03 PDT Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:21:03 -0700 (PDT) From: rahul mahajan Subject: inferno hosted To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii hi, i am new to inferno but i've got inferno 3rd edition installed on two of my machines already running linux now i need to access the serial port of my machine through inferno it's visible to Linux as /dev/ttyS0 on one machine and as /dev/ttySA0 on other machine what are the steps i have to take to make the serial port visible to inferno in each case? and how to send data through ? sincerely rahul __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Jun 11 09:37:08 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Jun 11 09:37:08 BST 2004 Message-ID: <401ebf20d0737d023e27704ea703d1f2@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno hosted From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:32:36 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040611082103.6165.qmail@web53308.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vrlekgskppqikvrpuehkkngzdm" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vrlekgskppqikvrpuehkkngzdm Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ls -l '#t' on both machines (note the single quotes) to see what that says --upas-vrlekgskppqikvrpuehkkngzdm Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Fri Jun 11 09:32:03 BST 2004 Received: from web53308.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.39.237]) by doppio; Fri Jun 11 09:33:21 BST 2004 Message-ID: <20040611082103.6165.qmail@web53308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.200.20.91] by web53308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:21:03 PDT Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:21:03 -0700 (PDT) From: rahul mahajan To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [inferno-list] inferno hosted Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk hi, i am new to inferno but i've got inferno 3rd edition installed on two of my machines already running linux now i need to access the serial port of my machine through inferno it's visible to Linux as /dev/ttyS0 on one machine and as /dev/ttySA0 on other machine what are the steps i have to take to make the serial port visible to inferno in each case? and how to send data through ? sincerely rahul __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ --upas-vrlekgskppqikvrpuehkkngzdm-- From yahoo.com!rahul_mahajan_343 Fri Jun 11 11:55:42 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from web53301.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.39.230]) by doppio; Fri Jun 11 11:55:42 BST 2004 Message-ID: <20040611104324.57102.qmail@web53301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.200.20.91] by web53301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 03:43:24 PDT Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 03:43:24 -0700 (PDT) From: rahul mahajan Subject: inferno hosted mounting remote files To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <20040611082103.6165.qmail@web53308.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i've got inferno 3rd edition installed on two of my machines already running linux, now i need to mount the folders of the second machine on the first machine, the machines are connected through USB .so that i can read/write them help me in figuring out sincerely rahul __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From york.ac.uk!as234 Fri Jun 11 14:05:14 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mail-gw1.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.246]) by doppio; Fri Jun 11 14:05:14 BST 2004 Received: from ebor.york.ac.uk (ebor.york.ac.uk [144.32.128.95]) by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i5BCxauW014705 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:59:36 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:59:36 +0100 (BST) From: A Shah To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: accessing local files from windows 2000 In-Reply-To: <785f272895f10c7246212ab7b737719d@terzarima.net> Message-ID: References: <785f272895f10c7246212ab7b737719d@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean Hi, When using bind '#Uc:' /n/local;ls /n/local on emu running on a windows 2000 professional box I get the following message ls: Readdir: /n/local: No mapping between account names and Security IDs was done. I wandered if anybody had come across this problem in this context, there is a microsoft knowledge base article http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;Q247482&ID=KB;EN-US;Q247 482 which covers the same error message but a different issue. Also bind '#d:' /n/local works (d is a cdrom drive). I suspect this is probably a windows problem, rather then any direct inferno issue, but if anybody knows how to solve it , I'd be most grateful. many thanks Abhey From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Sat Jun 12 22:18:49 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Sat Jun 12 22:18:49 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:13:11 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:13:11 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:13:06 -0700 References: AAAnshBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040612T141306Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jun 2004 21:13:11.0294 (UTC) FILETIME=[1109A9E0:01C450C2] As of the 20040527 release, a fresh build of the libraries and compilers = under MacOSX still exihibts the "realloc called. Abort" problem... is = there a quick fix? Also, must the lib9 mkfile be edited to compile = sysfatal.c with -fno-common still, or has that problem been corrected? On a separate note, have the compiler optimizations been corrected, so = that a build of ld.com will work? =20 From terzarima.net!forsyth Sun Jun 13 01:52:35 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sun Jun 13 01:52:35 BST 2004 Message-ID: <15ed8b8979033ef48711df4c9365fb36@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 01:47:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040612T141306Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-drfmyyyinwalzuignliihfawka" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-drfmyyyinwalzuignliihfawka Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sorry, i thought i'd replied to this earlier. as it happens, having looked into it again just now, i realise i'd misdiagnosed it: i'd assumed it was a known problem with sbrk but i now think it's something else (in MacOSX) calling realloc. i'll try to find out. --upas-drfmyyyinwalzuignliihfawka Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Sat Jun 12 22:22:19 BST 2004 Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Sat Jun 12 22:18:49 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:13:11 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:13:11 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:13:06 -0700 References: AAAnshBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040612T141306Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jun 2004 21:13:11.0294 (UTC) FILETIME=[1109A9E0:01C450C2] Subject: Re: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk As of the 20040527 release, a fresh build of the libraries and compilers = under MacOSX still exihibts the "realloc called. Abort" problem... is = there a quick fix? Also, must the lib9 mkfile be edited to compile = sysfatal.c with -fno-common still, or has that problem been corrected? On a separate note, have the compiler optimizations been corrected, so = that a build of ld.com will work? =20 --upas-drfmyyyinwalzuignliihfawka-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Sun Jun 13 10:03:49 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sun Jun 13 10:03:49 BST 2004 Message-ID: <006d6f7ef556f55f43cc4476e2110571@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 09:58:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040612T141306Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>On a separate note, have the compiler optimizations been corrected, so that a build of ld.com will work? yes, that should be all right; at least, it was when i tried it on Friday. From mipk.kharkiv.edu!wlad Sun Jun 13 10:44:37 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from flash.mipk.kharkiv.edu ([194.44.157.113]) by doppio; Sun Jun 13 10:44:37 BST 2004 Received: from mipk.kharkiv.edu (sunrise.mipk.kharkiv.edu [192.168.9.136]) by flash.mipk.kharkiv.edu (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i5D9arJA020450 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:37:00 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from wlad@mipk.kharkiv.edu) Message-ID: <40CC2034.20402@mipk.kharkiv.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:36:52 +0300 From: Vladimir Los Organization: IIAT NTU "KhPI" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: ru, uk, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Inferno over W2k inst.trbls Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, everyone! I couldn't install Inferno over W2K. I do not know why. I ran setup.exe from :\install\ Installation windows appeared And this text was printed: ------------------------------------------ Looking for Emu ... Found \Nt\386\bin\emu.exe Usage: emu [options...] [file.dis [args...]] -gXxY -c[0-9] -d file.dis -s -v -p=maxsize -f -r -7 -G -C -S EOF from Emu Saving Inferno root in Registry ..... DONE Creating start-menu item ............ DONE Installation completed --------------------------------------------- C:\Inferno was created. But it is empty! What do I do wrong? And of course I would to obtain NATIVE installation into separate partition... Thanks From terzarima.net!forsyth Sun Jun 13 10:50:13 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sun Jun 13 10:50:13 BST 2004 Message-ID: <10efe297fe5bcdfaa39d8f94083eb5fd@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 10:44:58 +0100 In-Reply-To: <15ed8b8979033ef48711df4c9365fb36@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-lvlqfmuyjgzliopiylotaqprxw" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-lvlqfmuyjgzliopiylotaqprxw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit actually, the problem was what i thought, on my system. i'd better include the uname -a output Darwin macdante.vitanuova.com 7.4.0 Darwin Kernel Version 7.4.0: \ Wed May 12 16:58:24 PDT 2004; root:xnu/xnu-517.7.7.obj~7/RELEASE_PPC\ Power Macintosh powerpc in case it depends on the macos release. try this. on MacOSX (only) put the attached sbrk-MacOSX.c in lib9/sbrk-MacOSX.c, add sbrk-MacOSX.$O\ to the list of COMMONFILES, then in lib9 mk nuke; mk install; cd ../utils; mk nuke; mk install and then the compiler suites should work. i've made os/boot/pc os/pc os/ipaq1110 without fuss. i don't know why the system-provided sbrk doesn't work. still, it's my fault for not trying the os build on MacOSX as i ought to have done. i'll sort out the lib9 mkfile by the next release to add the sbrk compensator. i've apparently got some Solaris 2.x for x > 6 problem to track down first... i suspect that's actually the stack size problem mentioned for 9ports on 9fans, but i'll see. --upas-lvlqfmuyjgzliopiylotaqprxw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Sun Jun 13 01:52:19 BST 2004 Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sun Jun 13 01:52:35 BST 2004 Message-ID: <15ed8b8979033ef48711df4c9365fb36@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 01:47:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040612T141306Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-drfmyyyinwalzuignliihfawka" Subject: Re: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-drfmyyyinwalzuignliihfawka Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sorry, i thought i'd replied to this earlier. as it happens, having looked into it again just now, i realise i'd misdiagnosed it: i'd assumed it was a known problem with sbrk but i now think it's something else (in MacOSX) calling realloc. i'll try to find out. --upas-drfmyyyinwalzuignliihfawka Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Sat Jun 12 22:22:19 BST 2004 Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Sat Jun 12 22:18:49 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:13:11 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:13:11 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:13:06 -0700 References: AAAnshBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040612T141306Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jun 2004 21:13:11.0294 (UTC) FILETIME=[1109A9E0:01C450C2] Subject: Re: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk As of the 20040527 release, a fresh build of the libraries and compilers = under MacOSX still exihibts the "realloc called. Abort" problem... is = there a quick fix? Also, must the lib9 mkfile be edited to compile = sysfatal.c with -fno-common still, or has that problem been corrected? On a separate note, have the compiler optimizations been corrected, so = that a build of ld.com will work? =20 --upas-drfmyyyinwalzuignliihfawka-- --upas-lvlqfmuyjgzliopiylotaqprxw Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=sbrk-MacOSX.c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #include "lib9.h" #undef _POSIX_C_SOURCE #undef getwd #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include char* sbrk(int size) { void *brk; kern_return_t err; err = vm_allocate( (vm_map_t) mach_task_self(), (vm_address_t *)&brk, size, VM_FLAGS_ANYWHERE); if (err != KERN_SUCCESS) brk = (void*)-1; return brk; } --upas-lvlqfmuyjgzliopiylotaqprxw-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Sun Jun 13 10:51:16 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sun Jun 13 10:51:16 BST 2004 Message-ID: <5a2c7b70924b65ec4128ea55e8869946@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno over W2k inst.trbls From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 10:46:06 +0100 In-Reply-To: <40CC2034.20402@mipk.kharkiv.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-sfoxfrrosiwgtwalloclpgwomb" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-sfoxfrrosiwgtwalloclpgwomb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit possibly a silly question but how did you run setup.exe, and can you include a list of the \install directory contents? thanks. --upas-sfoxfrrosiwgtwalloclpgwomb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Sun Jun 13 10:42:19 BST 2004 Received: from flash.mipk.kharkiv.edu ([194.44.157.113]) by doppio; Sun Jun 13 10:44:37 BST 2004 Received: from mipk.kharkiv.edu (sunrise.mipk.kharkiv.edu [192.168.9.136]) by flash.mipk.kharkiv.edu (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i5D9arJA020450 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:37:00 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from wlad@mipk.kharkiv.edu) Message-ID: <40CC2034.20402@mipk.kharkiv.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:36:52 +0300 From: Vladimir Los Organization: IIAT NTU "KhPI" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: ru, uk, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [inferno-list] Inferno over W2k inst.trbls Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Hi, everyone! I couldn't install Inferno over W2K. I do not know why. I ran setup.exe from :\install\ Installation windows appeared And this text was printed: ------------------------------------------ Looking for Emu ... Found \Nt\386\bin\emu.exe Usage: emu [options...] [file.dis [args...]] -gXxY -c[0-9] -d file.dis -s -v -p=maxsize -f -r -7 -G -C -S EOF from Emu Saving Inferno root in Registry ..... DONE Creating start-menu item ............ DONE Installation completed --------------------------------------------- C:\Inferno was created. But it is empty! What do I do wrong? And of course I would to obtain NATIVE installation into separate partition... Thanks --upas-sfoxfrrosiwgtwalloclpgwomb-- From xaplos.com!macrod Sun Jun 13 17:19:08 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.68]) by doppio; Sun Jun 13 17:19:08 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040613161013.MNNW18130.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:10:13 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: Writing man pages Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:10:00 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcRRYOCR9rGdLaRcRzK9Drg6dH5KUg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20040613161013.MNNW18130.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> I just looked up man in man and saw that Plan9's troff is used to generate man pages for Inferno. This may be a "basic" question, but how can one write a man page from within Inferno? I've written several modules that I would like to document as man pages and would like to create these man pages from within Inferno. Thanks, -Mark From corpus-callosum.com!jas Sun Jun 13 17:43:55 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from gate.corpus-callosum.com ([216.36.98.130]) by doppio; Sun Jun 13 17:43:55 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.8] (codex [10.0.1.8]) by gate.corpus-callosum.com (8.12.6/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i5DGcHT9044679 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2004 11:38:18 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jas@corpus-callosum.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) In-Reply-To: <10efe297fe5bcdfaa39d8f94083eb5fd@terzarima.net> References: <10efe297fe5bcdfaa39d8f94083eb5fd@terzarima.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0FC675C1-BD58-11D8-A3D8-003065E1714E@corpus-callosum.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jeff Sickel Subject: Re: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 11:38:12 -0500 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) On Jun 13, 2004, at 4:44 AM, Charles Forsyth wrote: > try this. on MacOSX (only) put the attached sbrk-MacOSX.c in > lib9/sbrk-MacOSX.c, add > sbrk-MacOSX.$O\ > to the list of COMMONFILES, then in lib9 > mk nuke; mk install; cd ../utils; mk nuke; mk install > and then the compiler suites should work. i've made os/boot/pc os/pc > os/ipaq1110 without fuss. The attached sbrk-MacOSX.c file just moves the source for the sbrk function from emu/MacOSX/os.c. This should should be removed from the os.c source as it is being rolled into the lib9 source for other utils. As for sysfatal.c -- since you're going to have to edit mkfile anyway, go ahead and add the following to the end of the file: sysfatal.o: sysfatal.c $CC $CFLAGS -fno-common sysfatal.c Also, Philip pointed out, modify emu/MacOSX/mkfile as follows to remove the duplicate warnings LDFLAGS=$LDFLAGS -L/usr/X11R6/lib -multiply_defined suppress jas From corpus-callosum.com!jas Sun Jun 13 18:17:09 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from gate.corpus-callosum.com ([216.36.98.130]) by doppio; Sun Jun 13 18:17:09 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.8] (codex [10.0.1.8]) by gate.corpus-callosum.com (8.12.6/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i5DHBVT9044728 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:11:31 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jas@corpus-callosum.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-9--682180155 From: Jeff Sickel Subject: MacOS X specific util: screensize Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:11:25 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) --Apple-Mail-9--682180155 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I'm attaching the Xcode project for screensize, a little util I use to set up my Inferno environment for X11. I've got a small tcshrc file in my emu $ROOT that I source from the directory that does: set width = `screensize | awk '{print $1}' | xargs -J % echo % "- 128" | bc -l` set height = `screensize | awk '{print $2}' | xargs -J % echo % "- 128" | bc -l` setenv EMU "-r`pwd` -g${width}x${height}" This way I don't have to twiddle with -g options to emu depending on which computer/display I'm using. jas --Apple-Mail-9--682180155 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/x-gzip; x-unix-mode=0644; name="screensize.tgz" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=screensize.tgz H4sIAAAAAAAAA+1c3XPbNhKn0z5E6sPl8V5uBnW/7MSWSInWRx1nQpG0rastaUS5iZtmdBQF2Wxo UkdSjt1eZvJ2f8D9effH3C1AUKI+KH/ESdsEvxkTJHYBLBbL3SUFOrB8jN3A/hXnhfcFUZTF8tYW lKJYLk2XDIIkiqWiBIwi1EtSUS4LaOu9SZTAKAhNHyHhFzNYyncV/U+KYLL+Oc3oGqHn47seQySL K8sp6y/Bmssz618UCyUBiXctyCJ84usPWKmN+pIgPIDT+0JUCv9ezHqf/c3hXqJcoX1gwRUCwRZ+ Fa5rT/fo4IFgCT60SbbPCRdQ6wl9AQ9e22LP8XqxoAS25Z6TUa/XPnjteO4J8P7nmnJxcHBwcHB8 rIiip3D/i99XDA4Ojj8giH9ArHzKyrdRucLo91j5eaLNA1YiVj5l5duoXGF891j5OSvvs/IBKxEr n7LybVQyp7XCHj5W2Mgr7AllhT0grCBWPr3RlDk4Phl8FhUPSPzXhdTnfw4Ojo8YK59rhlYTxg8E cyCxFsHfP5KNUpKAe9HLwr8m+BArn7LybVTyRICDg4PjQyPx+9+Zabs56z2Msfz3P7EgFyTy+99W qQCnReCTCjKw89//PgC+sl3LGfUxeqx6Pjawf25bOMgnL3KnT7ITNmU4dGzLDG3PHXMvqCONsqDa 0LbQuWf3s6PAPMFr5HQ9+1s2M/RtNxysrR6R6u/RxAzRC29IOgpe/uyuZjMZhNDqz+GmOXXVRyPX DqFqfTv7JpulA9AeNTsYOublmrqn2T624uu6hvrRGR1c3WsDDREGtIMIL6XVvJHbD9Zizu3sRMxv +uib/uoGWoPL9aj5Hg6f2f3wdI10sz5L2sf2yWkY0da3M5lsxh6gtS8ng9WDQ7jfxoOtw+Tiwejk vo8GHPMfQV1jdNbD/qTN9kTAsS7gEpE7mcqDTP/E2kAWqDNE1ikY+kNSdf7i5Tr6LftVHw9sF6ND 5XlXqxutA+XYQMUCiAotse+DbkQYgslOukJPkExaZjLRchIJMhGnBKdvsow3ZpbQt99SGdBjtLVO LoB5Z0eM+khdJMX3zcsXSbFebjN+SldhoULkjs7YdUCoPc9zsOl2YdKOE4tOZkK0mby2owu4Gng+ qGlH2kb2YyIllI8eRbJlgtd2aJ2uUW3ZL19IL1l9xjIDjL4zv/ueXmWiwcjsCXo+Nl9tJ/j6MR9V i/1IWkdPdqhK4v6mdEmAL+xwTRpfJrokCqYNohmZoWczAR+BfIwHpjAvDKy0OXJCJsv0gNPjTRqR wd7Q5QfNg0krVmifY6byAzsI15IrtDG1eBvo28TyrEdWFOtbJPpOrl5C7dTSHGdnR0L/+hddup0d e52KNnWDT1mKHU0ehH2DsANq/y07w67ukbttbGhr9N6BuwX8CbiBcOS7xDLJDfR7O+QPjET8n5zm pDsd44r4L0lleRL/RZHs/ymJWzz+fwjkfl7NP0SqN7z0ScBCoP8i6l2iv+PBABm29Qo76DHM/anl +cNRsGnBzekFo7Oc5Z09yUJriCgKuEDaOoB7KYAEAPcjCqMfeyMISZfEQYS+3RuFGA3A1JxLhC8s PIRQF55iZPa8cwyhKpaEtHC9EPUw9HrmjTuFtt4ZbRF4I9/CCJxK37NGZ9gNaQqygSLGPCmyOa2P DDNEGrZgcnR+UBcmMw4pm2sGaPXQtFDTQM+hjXGKGsqhns01zhKMcNlH1K3Evo4RUUSFVsZxo9ky 6gZpCb0O0a6DzPikjxSfujTKqumG2q63OvVmg3JHbihAQ/sCdP6apBbIdPvolGYSyBtEYZ2NnMvm WsNsruagzdA8QZsR/6bt9kEN2Vw9jEZmvi0xWeKDScyCnMCF2Iv7cY9B3GoiJm0AAwdDbNkDyOTi adMA5NJsJJID5qMcdfab7WxOcaeMR/knSjGfT83V/iGx2P9fWF7/7jYE33z/rwyhgO///RBYtv53 tSH45vt/S0VR4vH/A2HB/t+VhZt8r7H/l/yOSH/396zZXbp/eHxG/1ThR8GoO1Pyd+EP/Y+Ccn4h /CKYQiDkhKHQEy6EEZxjwZ9utfK3mVZ/AW5f8KAtFiwhHLdmtTOt/zvTmoODg4OD4+7B9/9ycHCk ge//5eD4eDGz/zft+Z+Dg+Mjxo33/8aJADvn+385ODg4/iRY9vvf0Pd+wVaYG/YuyOmtx7ji979i uSiO9/8Uye/EUrks8f2/HwT5PPry64dHnd3Kw6+/JHtjTd86tc/xj9gPbM9lWxstxwwCHMAVcLyB Cq9HLGPCVKyOKxlXRpRkVVdkFVa4oupFXZJUpVAtFBk50xvZTr89cmi3a6Qm2oJI6w0chrZ7EveV yajN1nG3ta8YetfotOstIDSa0ZZFTa8d7e3VG3td4/iw1jwwgHasGxFxT1W72nFDOayr3Uaz26qr iZaEqDeU2oHe3a0/7yoNras2G51640if7WNPb+htpaN3rxyt2erUD+s/KWRjT/dA/1E/iDefZjJT NHX3QNkjzVc3m+JqxPCT3m52D+qNHxK9vqFHOzChrlV7XqP6CS8dTOtd8wwDQcPn2PGGZBMU3Qq5 PVkB7b2twNS80xUZqzs5OVZ3zbkNHe8yMbV8HlwKPUr0WKDHIj3K5Fih1AqlVii1QqkVmailslsr l6vFXb0iS1tbmioWFEUVy1NqmZ3+m4RmiHxjlaXa+UaSOrcGGxN1n5qBYZmui/u7nq+74HrZwNK0 clqRO6aVZCvYnu+NhsS2ovnIs/OhjMyHa7bfMsNTYmyRpYHTO8HhZBYVTSuXdiuyKFdKSrWmiKJW LdW29ImckUmljBWrCXyH0/exO9FO1GBrtkGkHbVU2arqVaisitVCpSbKalUqVwobybba4raSUqnJ SkXf1avallxQqGbVWi2h2bHqqKqSJjWJdbTWx4PO5ZAQZHod7SzsAA/R2OMT0vzJ6qwW5iZ1lRZK C2dylawGFeYd5JwbNpZzYDs4Nrhxn2NBdoHaxgMME2HDQxQIf3C91y4hMUEiEUi+kLNyVmRzkaVF 3xO9g9xzC5+qX+Aq60qtLG5V5WJptwz5BphyeZfZUbWs1fRKdMNXtZtpf1W/CLHvmg7a9aHmtee/ Cui+zAO755u+jYPVm09xuYuCY5VSq5RapdQqpVapA0uZz3hZTcfpmdarevpKThY5ntTVK/3aN4dD 7OcGcZOkmqY+GJrmYOaQNy6DEJ/lI71d5ifqzC9pPFGruEitZi/wnFGIk5pdort8XlJEepTosUCP RXokmk3zKamGx9ymnu42l5gWOPT+CBKm29jPsnnk8zINjzINjzINjzINj7JEZpl2t8SzvKEHWGoX iz4Nu6l5XN3HTa1krINKmg4G0dTJcqRoa0HmQpQSjb8oe6Drtmxl8vmKJtKjRI8FeizSI1m3tBg9 lbi0IJ3Ac3F9a6GBxtTSUmplKVVZSq0tuTFuln7utpVD/Vmz/UPX0JW2ut9tKZ19Y5LQJHNQSE/3 2kqLkpO5/tIkPsnYautq87BVh77glKS0+7qi6e0ZtmdKu9FVas2jTvewbhikv1a72Wl2jlv6bJeU d7d51O6q+0pbUTt6m+TIRkdpdBbyHjV+aDSfNaBHZe9QSbJEsqTpoU76PDig9aT667X95qG+nu/Z LuM4qNfaSvs4rYNmZ5/INn46mao+0BbXt/WfZgmgCu1I7XTJlxTzKVcGWnT157p61CFrlnyaMHS1 02yTKc52SRRDtJx4dHp25gUh2nzmepsDuOs3yVeOm/SDR9OF/JYSRu4r4rM2h755cmaygB1l9H08 xOSbCcueNcPxrd0wyXdvHZowL8khh5E3r5ORHSfOtue0z9gay/oY+1zgSIswSX7m+1Yt7ywHvtjB OUbYDIGSCz3PmXi+NI8w5UXIt36ee2gGr6C6IMlluVIsydEjBXGNabrax2Yf+0Ft7Iki9zxym65z CY83k0e5FiwbSAm+PIiyT3FWwjmvdDsJ4+7K14nRUa59N/LPDTgfW9IS9JvElozSAX9XO+pQlxNN eX1i4UmJ5jz5u2m0utj1p4XWRfqeRPk7UfmcRAtUnpI83yacpwfBO7mZ2vjXO9HKXBBOl64SOcUg ZP4rPwr8fAAulfx7CJf8SfmYxRj1Bp4Dt7sxxNY49VpoKep17j3yESJR+a1MQZqd9NyQ86bA3j5o 0duHaiV++/BOpjDnqGNOfEGyWDtMZM7EYQ/hsp87M63TTS+HL7A1Cs2eg6Ngwf7rQt2tQ4y6GOt4 SYLOsunU9xvF+fy4dlQ/6HRZtDa6Wr09zlaX5aP5vFoS6VGixwI9FumRZKtp73ZSn6XSluNaz1Ja 8gvQ27xzSBv9lg9FIb4IYVXdxYuSk24hIvnzPS9s0tfsk+gx9yLzE/yMnYODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4OD g4ODg2MB/g8b/j1gAHgAAA== --Apple-Mail-9--682180155 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed --Apple-Mail-9--682180155-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon Jun 14 00:29:58 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon Jun 14 00:29:58 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:24:47 +0100 In-Reply-To: <0FC675C1-BD58-11D8-A3D8-003065E1714E@corpus-callosum.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ohsfigsraftgfuclacjbwmswga" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ohsfigsraftgfuclacjbwmswga Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>sysfatal.o: sysfatal.c >> $CC $CFLAGS -fno-common sysfatal.c you don't need to do that, because i removed (or rather moved) the need for it. --upas-ohsfigsraftgfuclacjbwmswga Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Sun Jun 13 17:42:20 BST 2004 Received: from gate.corpus-callosum.com ([216.36.98.130]) by doppio; Sun Jun 13 17:43:55 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.8] (codex [10.0.1.8]) by gate.corpus-callosum.com (8.12.6/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i5DGcHT9044679 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2004 11:38:18 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jas@corpus-callosum.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) In-Reply-To: <10efe297fe5bcdfaa39d8f94083eb5fd@terzarima.net> References: <10efe297fe5bcdfaa39d8f94083eb5fd@terzarima.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0FC675C1-BD58-11D8-A3D8-003065E1714E@corpus-callosum.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jeff Sickel Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 11:38:12 -0500 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk On Jun 13, 2004, at 4:44 AM, Charles Forsyth wrote: > try this. on MacOSX (only) put the attached sbrk-MacOSX.c in > lib9/sbrk-MacOSX.c, add > sbrk-MacOSX.$O\ > to the list of COMMONFILES, then in lib9 > mk nuke; mk install; cd ../utils; mk nuke; mk install > and then the compiler suites should work. i've made os/boot/pc os/pc > os/ipaq1110 without fuss. The attached sbrk-MacOSX.c file just moves the source for the sbrk function from emu/MacOSX/os.c. This should should be removed from the os.c source as it is being rolled into the lib9 source for other utils. As for sysfatal.c -- since you're going to have to edit mkfile anyway, go ahead and add the following to the end of the file: sysfatal.o: sysfatal.c $CC $CFLAGS -fno-common sysfatal.c Also, Philip pointed out, modify emu/MacOSX/mkfile as follows to remove the duplicate warnings LDFLAGS=$LDFLAGS -L/usr/X11R6/lib -multiply_defined suppress jas --upas-ohsfigsraftgfuclacjbwmswga-- From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Mon Jun 14 02:28:24 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Mon Jun 14 02:28:24 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:22:46 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:22:46 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: 13 Jun 2004 18:22:40 -0700 References: AAAovhBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040613T182240Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] malloc, calloc, realloc, MacOSX To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jun 2004 01:22:46.0179 (UTC) FILETIME=[192D8730:01C451AE] >>> Charles Forsyth 6/13/2004 4:24:47 PM >>> >>sysfatal.o: sysfatal.c >> $CC $CFLAGS -fno-common sysfatal.c you don't need to do that, because i removed (or rather moved) the need = for it. Adding it in anyway doesn't hurt, as I found out buy doing a build before = I got the news that it's not needed anymore. Indeed, all's well now, and = the compiler works. I built several functional versions of the pc kernel = under MacOSX, as well as 9load, pbs, etc. I had some problems with = ld.com, but that's not terribly important, since the Plan 9 binary works = just fine. =20 The best part is that finally, emu compiles!! The out-of-the-box version = still terminates when one presses the backspace/delete key under MacOSX, = though, but it's at least nice to have the 20040527 emu. =20 Now I'm off to see if I can get a disk-based (devsd) system working. No = luck yet. -Ben From earthlink.net!billnorthway Mon Jun 14 08:05:47 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.148]) by doppio; Mon Jun 14 08:05:47 BST 2004 Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by flavatown.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i5E6bbE21634 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:37:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.21]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BZl68-0006QU-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:37:36 -0700 Message-ID: <8494656.1087195056279.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:37:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Northway Reply-To: Bill Northway To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Hello, I had a few questions regarding Inferno: 1) Does the Inferno plugin for Internet Explorer still work? I tried it on three computers with no luck: win98 and winXP machines, and a mac OS 9 machine using Internet Explorer. The winXP computer successfully loaded theplugin (I think) then abruptly printed "Inferno terminated". 2) Is there a list archive available for this list? 3) When I try to use the pop3 email program in acme I receive the error message: "mail: could not connect to POP3 mail server: dialup failed". I have modified the /lib/ndb/local file so it reads (in part): ... dns=207.217.126.81 ... smtp=mail.earthlink.net pop3=mail.earthlink.net ... I can't decide from the installation manual what else i should do (charon works). A pointer to a pertinent man page would be appreciated. By the way, I think Inferno and Acme are beautiful and inspiring pieces of programming; thank you for all the effort that has been put into them over the years. --Bill Northway From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Mon Jun 14 08:47:48 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Mon Jun 14 08:47:48 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:42:11 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:42:11 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:42:09 -0700 References: AAAtvhBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040614T004209Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jun 2004 07:42:11.0104 (UTC) FILETIME=[1A216A00:01C451E3] >>> Bill Northway 6/13/2004 11:37:35 PM >>> >Hello, > > I had a few questions regarding Inferno: > >1) Does the Inferno plugin for Internet Explorer still work? I tried it = on three computers with no=20 >luck: win98 and winXP machines, and a mac OS 9 machine using Internet = Explorer. >The winXP computer successfully loaded theplugin (I think) then abruptly = printed "Inferno terminated". A few things to note- the plugin is compiled for x86 systems, so it won't = run on IE under MacOSX, period. As for the other systems, I've noticed = that it doesn't work properly anymore either. All I can get is the = message "download failed", after which the plugin area turns black and = remains so. I was able to get some of it to function properly if you load = the .dis modules locally (from within the same folder (file:///) ) rather = than attempt to download from a server. Any web-based download fails, = even if it's just over my LAN. From vitanuova.com!michael Mon Jun 14 09:56:14 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 62.254.170.97 ([62.254.170.97]) by doppio; Mon Jun 14 09:56:14 BST 2004 Message-ID: <003d01c4522c$b8523350$220101c8@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: AAAtvhBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf <20040614T004209Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:29:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 I give a lot of presentations on Inferno and often include a demo of the plug-in. The interesting thing is that I normally use a PC provided by the organisation where I am presenting and so far have had no problems on either XP, NT or 2000. Ben is correct of course that it will not run under MacOSX. Someone, I can't remember who, did comment that they thought there might be some problems if you had the old plug-in installed and then tried to use the new one. What version of IE are you using? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Huntsman" To: Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 12:42 AM Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme >>> Bill Northway 6/13/2004 11:37:35 PM >>> >Hello, > > I had a few questions regarding Inferno: > >1) Does the Inferno plugin for Internet Explorer still work? I tried it on three computers with no >luck: win98 and winXP machines, and a mac OS 9 machine using Internet Explorer. >The winXP computer successfully loaded theplugin (I think) then abruptly printed "Inferno terminated". A few things to note- the plugin is compiled for x86 systems, so it won't run on IE under MacOSX, period. As for the other systems, I've noticed that it doesn't work properly anymore either. All I can get is the message "download failed", after which the plugin area turns black and remains so. I was able to get some of it to function properly if you load the .dis modules locally (from within the same folder (file:///) ) rather than attempt to download from a server. Any web-based download fails, even if it's just over my LAN. From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon Jun 14 10:10:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon Jun 14 10:10:20 BST 2004 Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:06:02 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme In-Reply-To: <003d01c4522c$b8523350$220101c8@MICHAEL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i've just tried the plug-in from home myself, and it all seems fine, even through a NAT box. i managed to snap a photo of the office (hello danny), run bounce, and several other demos. was there anything in particular that didn't work, or just everything? From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Mon Jun 14 17:28:02 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Mon Jun 14 17:28:02 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:22:24 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:22:24 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:22:23 -0700 References: AAwtvhBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040614T092223Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jun 2004 16:22:24.0337 (UTC) FILETIME=[C6AACC10:01C4522B] >>> Michael Jeffrey 6/14/2004 9:29:09 AM >>> >.... Someone, >I can't remember who, did comment that they thought there might be some >problems if you had the old plug-in installed and then tried to use the = new one. Aha! I have both versions installed. I will try it without the 3e = plugin. >What version of IE are you using? The latest on Win2k, 6.0.2800.1106 From forsyth Mon Jun 14 17:42:13 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme From: C H Forsyth Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 17:42:13 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040614T092223Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>The latest on Win2k, 6.0.2800.1106 that's the one i used successfully this morning, with all updates from the MS update service. From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Mon Jun 14 17:58:03 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Mon Jun 14 17:58:03 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:52:25 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:52:24 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:52:23 -0700 References: AAQ1vhBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040614T095223Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jun 2004 16:52:24.0865 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7DD9110:01C4522F] >>> C H Forsyth 6/14/2004 9:42:13 AM >>> >>The latest on Win2k, 6.0.2800.1106 > >that's the one i used successfully this morning, with all updates from = the MS update service. Just tried deleting the 3e plugin, as suggested. No change. I get the = error "download failed", and the plugin area is black. The shell demo = loads, though, but the graphics do not display properly... streaks kind of = like having incorrect display settings appear within the plugin area, but = I can barely make out the title bar. From forsyth Mon Jun 14 17:59:57 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme From: C H Forsyth Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 17:59:57 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040614T095223Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-recyktjbgcnohuxblnljpghyiw" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-recyktjbgcnohuxblnljpghyiw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit which demo(s) are you trying to run when `download failed'? --upas-recyktjbgcnohuxblnljpghyiw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Mon Jun 14 17:58:03 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:52:25 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:52:24 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:52:23 -0700 References: AAQ1vhBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040614T095223Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jun 2004 16:52:24.0865 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7DD9110:01C4522F] Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk >>> C H Forsyth 6/14/2004 9:42:13 AM >>> >>The latest on Win2k, 6.0.2800.1106 > >that's the one i used successfully this morning, with all updates from = the MS update service. Just tried deleting the 3e plugin, as suggested. No change. I get the = error "download failed", and the plugin area is black. The shell demo = loads, though, but the graphics do not display properly... streaks kind of = like having incorrect display settings appear within the plugin area, but = I can barely make out the title bar. --upas-recyktjbgcnohuxblnljpghyiw-- From rog Mon Jun 14 18:29:17 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Writing man pages Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 18:29:17 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <20040613161013.MNNW18130.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I just looked up man in man and saw that Plan9's troff is used to generate > man pages for Inferno. not quite. the inferno man pages are input for plan 9's troff (and wm/man, of course). > This may be a "basic" question, but how can one write > a man page from within Inferno? use a text editor, such as acme(1) or wm/edit(1). you could find a basic guide to troff from somewhere, or (probably easier as you don't need many features) just take a man page that looks similar to the one you want to create, and use it as a template. the idioms are quite straightforward, although there are a few gotchas. trial and error usually works ok. cheers, rog. From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Mon Jun 14 18:34:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Mon Jun 14 18:34:52 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:29:14 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:29:14 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:29:12 -0700 References: AAQ2vhBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040614T102912Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jun 2004 17:29:14.0135 (UTC) FILETIME=[1CB16A70:01C45235] >>> C H Forsyth 6/14/2004 9:59:57 AM >>> >which demo(s) are you trying to run when `download failed'? All of them, except shell, which exhibits the problem I described earlier. = Those that load multiple .dis modules produce the error multiple times, = one for each module. From earthlink.net!billnorthway Mon Jun 14 18:46:44 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.130]) by doppio; Mon Jun 14 18:46:44 BST 2004 Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i5EH7xZ22395 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skeeter.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.186]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BZuw9-0007KK-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:07:57 -0700 Message-ID: <5913783.1087232877588.JavaMail.root@skeeter.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:07:57 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Bill Northway Reply-To: Bill Northway To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 the win98 IE was the latest version; i downloaded it for a friend on her computer so I can't check the exact version. the winXP IE version was at an internet cafe so i'm not sure of the version there either. that was the instance where I downloaded the plugin successfully (I am assuming) and then it ran for a second before displaying the message "inferno terminated" or something of that nature. So I guess this is a different problem than the "download failed" one... --bill -----Original Message----- From: Michael Jeffrey Sent: Jun 14, 2004 9:29 AM To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme I give a lot of presentations on Inferno and often include a demo of the plug-in. The interesting thing is that I normally use a PC provided by the organisation where I am presenting and so far have had no problems on either XP, NT or 2000. Ben is correct of course that it will not run under MacOSX. Someone, I can't remember who, did comment that they thought there might be some problems if you had the old plug-in installed and then tried to use the new one. What version of IE are you using? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Huntsman" To: Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 12:42 AM Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme >>> Bill Northway 6/13/2004 11:37:35 PM >>> >Hello, > > I had a few questions regarding Inferno: > >1) Does the Inferno plugin for Internet Explorer still work? I tried it on three computers with no >luck: win98 and winXP machines, and a mac OS 9 machine using Internet Explorer. >The winXP computer successfully loaded theplugin (I think) then abruptly printed "Inferno terminated". A few things to note- the plugin is compiled for x86 systems, so it won't run on IE under MacOSX, period. As for the other systems, I've noticed that it doesn't work properly anymore either. All I can get is the message "download failed", after which the plugin area turns black and remains so. I was able to get some of it to function properly if you load the .dis modules locally (from within the same folder (file:///) ) rather than attempt to download from a server. Any web-based download fails, even if it's just over my LAN. From rog Mon Jun 14 19:06:31 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Writing man pages Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 19:06:31 +0100 From: rog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oh yes, i forgot to say that a useful reference is: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/6/man which gives a brief summary of the available troff man macros. From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon Jun 14 19:27:47 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon Jun 14 19:27:47 BST 2004 Message-ID: <6ad07fd833f4c00c2897a7859f1dc7c2@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Writing man pages From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 19:21:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-thqgobsumxnvwdfhukbzuxlsls" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-thqgobsumxnvwdfhukbzuxlsls Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit so does man 6 man inside Inferno or wm/man 6 man --upas-thqgobsumxnvwdfhukbzuxlsls Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Mon Jun 14 19:22:00 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 19:06:31 +0100 From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Writing man pages Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk oh yes, i forgot to say that a useful reference is: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/6/man which gives a brief summary of the available troff man macros. --upas-thqgobsumxnvwdfhukbzuxlsls-- From vitanuova.com!michael Mon Jun 14 21:41:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 158.152.8.115 ([158.152.8.115]) by doppio; Mon Jun 14 21:41:45 BST 2004 Message-ID: <011101c4528f$471e8540$220101c8@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: AAwtvhBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf <20040614T092223Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 21:14:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 The one I use regularlry is 6.0.2800.1123 > The latest on Win2k, 6.0.2800.1106 From vitanuova.com!michael Mon Jun 14 21:44:32 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from 158.152.8.115 ([158.152.8.115]) by doppio; Mon Jun 14 21:44:32 BST 2004 Message-ID: <012601c4528f$aaabc000$220101c8@MICHAEL> From: "Michael Jeffrey" To: References: AAQ1vhBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf <20040614T095223Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 21:17:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 > Just tried deleting the 3e plugin, as suggested. No change. I get the error "download failed", and the plugin area is black. The shell demo loads, though, but the > graphics do not display properly... streaks kind of like having incorrect display settings appear within the plugin area, but I can barely make out the title bar. I do recall a colleague having difficulty when he ran his display at something greater than 1400 x 1050 From cs.indiana.edu!geobrown Tue Jun 15 01:54:02 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu ([129.79.254.191]) by doppio; Tue Jun 15 01:54:02 BST 2004 Received: from cs.indiana.edu (12-223-222-54.client.insightbb.com [12.223.222.54]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUCS_2.61) with ESMTP id i5F0mJOo023894 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2004 19:48:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40CE4763.4090009@cs.indiana.edu> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 19:48:35 -0500 From: Geoffrey Brown Reply-To: geoffrey.brown@acm.org User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: device "walk" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-PMX-Version: 4.6.0.99824, Antispam-Core: 4.6.0.101390, Antispam-Data: 2004.6.14.103686 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIIII, Probability=8%, Report='__MOZILLA_MSGID 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __USER_AGENT 0, X_ACCEPT_LANG 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __EVITE_CTYPE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __UNUSABLE_MSGID 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, USER_AGENT 0.000' Is there someplace in the inferno code that the walk procedure of a device "walk(c, nc, names, ..." is called with nc other than nil ? There seem to be two modes of operation, call with 0 names and clone c, or call with 1 or more names and "walk" c. Geoffrey From gmail.com!russcox Tue Jun 15 02:28:08 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]) by doppio; Tue Jun 15 02:28:08 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d78so33561rnf for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2004 18:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.9.61 with SMTP id 61mr26929rni; Mon, 14 Jun 2004 18:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 21:22:27 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] device "walk" In-Reply-To: <40CE4763.4090009@cs.indiana.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <40CE4763.4090009@cs.indiana.edu> > Is there someplace in the inferno code that the walk procedure of a > device "walk(c, nc, names, ..." is called with nc other than nil ? > There seem to be two modes of operation, call with 0 names and clone c, > or call with 1 or more names and "walk" c. no, but i'd like to leave open the possibility. then some of the clones could be removed. russ From xaplos.com!macrod Tue Jun 15 04:31:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.70]) by doppio; Tue Jun 15 04:31:52 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040615032614.DJUW20552.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2004 23:26:14 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Writing man pages Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 23:26:09 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <6ad07fd833f4c00c2897a7859f1dc7c2@terzarima.net> Thread-Index: AcRSPojQumGJ1IcLSWas22C8c+WMEgASTihw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20040615032614.DJUW20552.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > so does man 6 man inside Inferno Thanks. I was looking for the "magic" list of tags to format the man page. I mistakenly thought Plan9's troff would take normal text files and generate man pages compatible for Inferno's wm/man. Thanks for the clarification, -Mark From xaplos.com!macrod Tue Jun 15 06:09:42 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.64]) by doppio; Tue Jun 15 06:09:42 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040615033807.DSBB20235.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2004 23:38:07 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: CVS Access Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 23:38:03 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcRSiinaA+cx9hP+T4avuZPyL/vPuQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20040615033807.DSBB20235.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> I've seen a few mentions in the archives and in recent posts about the latest Inferno sources from cvs. How does one gain access to cvs (read only permission is fine)? Is the cvs server public? If yes, what's the server's address, login info, etc.? Thanks, -Mark From terzarima.net!forsyth Tue Jun 15 07:37:03 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Tue Jun 15 07:37:03 BST 2004 Message-ID: <245e578c10b0b7ce1fa8fd5081e9bb55@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] CVS Access From: Charles Forsyth Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:30:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040615033807.DSBB20235.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mnrnkabubkliftcpxthlkxkemm" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mnrnkabubkliftcpxthlkxkemm Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit not as far as i know, so thus in a sense if one exists it can't be `latest sources'. --upas-mnrnkabubkliftcpxthlkxkemm Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Tue Jun 15 06:12:17 BST 2004 Received: from imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.64]) by doppio; Tue Jun 15 06:09:42 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040615033807.DSBB20235.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2004 23:38:07 -0400 From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 23:38:03 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcRSiinaA+cx9hP+T4avuZPyL/vPuQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20040615033807.DSBB20235.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Subject: [inferno-list] CVS Access Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk I've seen a few mentions in the archives and in recent posts about the latest Inferno sources from cvs. How does one gain access to cvs (read only permission is fine)? Is the cvs server public? If yes, what's the server's address, login info, etc.? Thanks, -Mark --upas-mnrnkabubkliftcpxthlkxkemm-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Tue Jun 15 09:14:56 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Tue Jun 15 09:14:56 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] CVS Access From: Charles Forsyth Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:08:48 +0100 In-Reply-To: <245e578c10b0b7ce1fa8fd5081e9bb55@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-zjcscseeuymdfkkgqqzvcukora" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-zjcscseeuymdfkkgqqzvcukora Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i have said i intend to provide on-line updates, though, but that isn't ready yet. i'll certainly announce it here when it is ready for testing. i have thought of using sourceforge for some things but i've found it slow or unresponsive often enough for projects i've tried to access that it has put me off. i'll keep an eye on it. i also didn't want to end up in a bitkeeper/sourceforge/something-else argument. licences are quite enough. --upas-zjcscseeuymdfkkgqqzvcukora Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Tue Jun 15 07:42:16 BST 2004 Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Tue Jun 15 07:37:03 BST 2004 Message-ID: <245e578c10b0b7ce1fa8fd5081e9bb55@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com From: Charles Forsyth Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:30:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040615033807.DSBB20235.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mnrnkabubkliftcpxthlkxkemm" Subject: Re: [inferno-list] CVS Access Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mnrnkabubkliftcpxthlkxkemm Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit not as far as i know, so thus in a sense if one exists it can't be `latest sources'. --upas-mnrnkabubkliftcpxthlkxkemm Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Tue Jun 15 06:12:17 BST 2004 Received: from imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.64]) by doppio; Tue Jun 15 06:09:42 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040615033807.DSBB20235.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2004 23:38:07 -0400 From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 23:38:03 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcRSiinaA+cx9hP+T4avuZPyL/vPuQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20040615033807.DSBB20235.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Subject: [inferno-list] CVS Access Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk I've seen a few mentions in the archives and in recent posts about the latest Inferno sources from cvs. How does one gain access to cvs (read only permission is fine)? Is the cvs server public? If yes, what's the server's address, login info, etc.? Thanks, -Mark --upas-mnrnkabubkliftcpxthlkxkemm-- --upas-zjcscseeuymdfkkgqqzvcukora-- From corpus-callosum.com!jas Tue Jun 15 13:30:56 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from gate.corpus-callosum.com ([216.36.98.130]) by doppio; Tue Jun 15 13:30:56 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.8] (codex [10.0.1.8]) by gate.corpus-callosum.com (8.12.6/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i5FCPHT9049255 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:25:18 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jas@corpus-callosum.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0CA6A3A9-BEC7-11D8-A41A-003065E1714E@corpus-callosum.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jeff Sickel Subject: Re: [inferno-list] CVS Access Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:25:12 -0500 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) On Jun 15, 2004, at 3:08 AM, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > i have thought of using sourceforge for some things but > i've found it slow or unresponsive often enough for projects i've > tried to access that it has put me off. i'll keep an eye on it. I'd actually like to see something more along the lines of '9fs sources' accessible from Inferno and Plan 9 or maybe a replica. Though I use cvs on a daily basis, it does get to be a pain especially with things like sourceforge. tigris.org may be an alternative that could be suitable. jas From forsyth Tue Jun 15 13:52:56 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] CVS Access From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:52:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: <0CA6A3A9-BEC7-11D8-A41A-003065E1714E@corpus-callosum.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>I'd actually like to see something more along the lines of '9fs >>sources' accessible from Inferno and Plan 9 or maybe a replica. that was indeed the plan, or is indeed the plan, but just to be nice i'd also thought that i might push periodic snapshots of something across to CVS somewhere, and sourceforge was a possibility. i'm not sure we're quite right for tigris.org, but the site was fast and i can't remember knowing about it before, so i'll have another look at it for other reasons, if nothing else. thanks. From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed Jun 16 06:48:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed Jun 16 06:48:45 BST 2004 Message-ID: <3501914ae78ae941126633e9aafa55d2@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com subject: inert From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:40:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Sorry for the spam here [9fans], but the Inferno mailing lists have gone inert. is this list inert? let's see. From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Wed Jun 16 07:56:04 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Wed Jun 16 07:56:04 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:50:25 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:50:25 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:50:23 -0700 References: AAAowhBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040615T235023Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inert To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jun 2004 06:50:25.0320 (UTC) FILETIME=[33C3E280:01C4536E] >>> Charles Forsyth 6/15/2004 10:40:47 PM >>> >>Sorry for the spam here [9fans], but the Inferno mailing lists have gone = inert. > >is this list inert? >let's see. Inert? I think not. I read this list more frequently than 9fans, and = post here more often. Plan 9 is changing too fast for me to keep up with = and still have a job and be a full-time student.=20 -Ben From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Wed Jun 16 07:57:41 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Wed Jun 16 07:57:41 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:52:03 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:52:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:52:01 -0700 References: AAAowhBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040615T235201Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Inferno Alpha To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jun 2004 06:52:02.0850 (UTC) FILETIME=[6DE5C820:01C4536E] so, since I'm a fan of the Alpha, and have an AlphaServer that needs an = OS, I thought I'd try porting Inferno. Plan 9's 7a, 7c, 7l Alpha compiler = set ports to the Inferno build system without a hitch... one only needs to = make a few trivial modifications. I have them running without problems on = my MacOSX build system. Anyone else tried this? Gotten further than I? = I'm currently stuck trying to build Plan 9's bootalphapc, and can't get it = to link with my Alpha version of libkern... I had difficulty tracking down = all the functions for libkern, so I probably messed something up there... Any thoughts? -Ben From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed Jun 16 09:45:10 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed Jun 16 09:45:10 BST 2004 Message-ID: <481960739267808a1101d25c192574ee@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Alpha From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:37:12 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040615T235201Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-iwnssbumyiaicenzbcvirsynpz" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-iwnssbumyiaicenzbcvirsynpz Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i haven't got an alpha, but if you let me know what's missing from libkern that you can't find, i can both help you find it, and add it and the others to the distribution so it arrives nearly automatically next time. --upas-iwnssbumyiaicenzbcvirsynpz Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Wed Jun 16 08:02:23 BST 2004 Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Wed Jun 16 07:57:41 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:52:03 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:52:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:52:01 -0700 References: AAAowhBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040615T235201Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jun 2004 06:52:02.0850 (UTC) FILETIME=[6DE5C820:01C4536E] Subject: [inferno-list] Inferno Alpha Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk so, since I'm a fan of the Alpha, and have an AlphaServer that needs an = OS, I thought I'd try porting Inferno. Plan 9's 7a, 7c, 7l Alpha compiler = set ports to the Inferno build system without a hitch... one only needs to = make a few trivial modifications. I have them running without problems on = my MacOSX build system. Anyone else tried this? Gotten further than I? = I'm currently stuck trying to build Plan 9's bootalphapc, and can't get it = to link with my Alpha version of libkern... I had difficulty tracking down = all the functions for libkern, so I probably messed something up there... Any thoughts? -Ben --upas-iwnssbumyiaicenzbcvirsynpz-- From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Wed Jun 16 19:48:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Wed Jun 16 19:48:36 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:42:58 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:42:58 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:42:56 -0700 References: AAApwhBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040616T114256Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Alpha To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jun 2004 18:42:58.0266 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE81BBA0:01C453D1] Porting the compiler/assembler/linker was easy... I just used 5a/5c/5l as = a template, and copied in the source files from Plan 9 and modified the = mkfiles to suit. It only took commenting out some of the native functions,= which were replaced in the appropriate Nt.c, Posix.c, or Plan9.c. After = that, it all worked beautifully. I also added appropriate configuration = mkfiles and directories so that the build system recognizes "alpha" as a = platform and build type. Since there is no lib9 for alpha, I don't have = an alpha-appropriate lib9.h. The other standard headers I copied straight = from Plan 9. =20 As for libkern, I noticed that each of the different cpu types have a = mkfile-$OBJTYPE that are essentially indentical. I copied this for the = alpha, and changed the names to suit. I managed to track down a few by = copying them from Plan 9's libc, but the alpha version of libc seems to be = missing some things. The ones I know are correct are getfcr-alpha.s, = memmove-alpha.s, and memset-alpha.s. nan-$objtype.c is essentially = identical between platforms, so I borrowed it from one of the others, = renaming it to nan-alpha.c, and noting that the 386 and alpha are both = little-endian systems, I borrowed vlrt-386.c, copying it to vlrt-alpha.c. = Of course, I'm sure that borrowing isn't such a good idea. Anyway, that = leaves me totally missing frexp-alpha.c, strchr-alpha.s, and vlop-alpha.s. I compiled what I had into a library, and tried building the alpha = bootloader copied from Plan 9, modified to build under the Inferno system. = It compiles fine, up until the linking, where it aborts with the error = "/usr/inferno/Inferno/alpha/lib/libkern.a: first entry not symbol header" Anyway, let me know what you can find out, and thanks for looking! -Ben >>> Charles Forsyth 6/16/2004 1:37:12 AM >>> i haven't got an alpha, but if you let me know what's missing from libkern = that you can't find, i can both help you find it, and add it and the others to the distribution = so it arrives nearly automatically next time. From rog Wed Jun 16 19:59:35 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Alpha Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:59:34 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <20040616T114256Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It compiles fine, up until the linking, where it aborts with the error > "/usr/inferno/Inferno/alpha/lib/libkern.a: first entry not symbol header" it might have been corrupted by aborting the build, i suppose. have you tried removing that library and rebuilding it? From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed Jun 16 20:09:41 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed Jun 16 20:09:41 BST 2004 Message-ID: <8b2d37e1bbfe7a78561ed788a1411988@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Alpha From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:00:28 +0100 In-Reply-To: <45407aa82c9fd4e7f71acbe32df157da@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-erwduqpkhpqvveplbuzeawfaml" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-erwduqpkhpqvveplbuzeawfaml Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's actually that you need to provide 7*.c in utils/libmach, if you haven't already. then rebuild that, iar, inm, etc. iar in particular, because it uses the obj-recognition in libmach to process the incoming symbols and produce the index for the archive to make it a library. --upas-erwduqpkhpqvveplbuzeawfaml Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Wed Jun 16 20:02:14 BST 2004 Message-ID: <45407aa82c9fd4e7f71acbe32df157da@vitanuova.com> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:59:34 +0100 From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <20040616T114256Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Alpha Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk > It compiles fine, up until the linking, where it aborts with the error > "/usr/inferno/Inferno/alpha/lib/libkern.a: first entry not symbol header" it might have been corrupted by aborting the build, i suppose. have you tried removing that library and rebuilding it? --upas-erwduqpkhpqvveplbuzeawfaml-- From mail2.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Thu Jun 17 08:14:48 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Thu Jun 17 08:14:48 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:09:10 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([65.170.221.161]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:09:09 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:09:08 -0700 References: AAgywhBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040617T000908Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno Alpha To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jun 2004 07:09:09.0992 (UTC) FILETIME=[FC88F680:01C45439] >>> Charles Forsyth 6/16/2004 12:00:28 PM >>> >it's actually that you need to provide 7*.c in utils/libmach, if you = haven't already. >then rebuild that, iar, inm, etc. iar in particular, because it uses the = obj-recognition >in libmach to process the incoming symbols and produce the index for the = archive >to make it a library. Aha! I didn't think of that. So I spent the day adding in the necessary = parts. Interestingly, there were remnants of the Plan 9 Alpha stuff in = some of the files... I added back in what was missing, but had trouble on = executable.c. After several failed build attempts, I changed some unions, = and all's good... I think. =20 From gmail.com!knapjack Thu Jun 17 19:14:55 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]) by doppio; Thu Jun 17 19:14:55 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d78so122175rnf for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.181.77 with SMTP id d77mr92130rnf; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c06204061710092006883c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:09:14 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: SSL and Charon? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone know if there's a trick to getting Charon working with SSL? (Hello GMail, and fellow beta testers!) I've tried v2 and v3, also with varying combinations of http versions to no avail. I've also noted that our in-house intranet server also fails (using Apache and a self-signed certificate). I can sift through our logs and probably do some more packet sniffing as well, but at this point I'm not sure I know what I should be looking for. Through packet sniffing, I do note that I do get a response back from the server(s) when attempting to connect, but it seems internally we have Apache configured so that it does not log the connection attempt until authentication either succeeds or fails, and it seems as if the failure is happening at the SSL layer. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. -Jack From rog Thu Jun 17 19:19:15 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] SSL and Charon? Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:19:15 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <6e35c06204061710092006883c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Anyone know if there's a trick to getting Charon working with SSL? > (Hello GMail, and fellow beta testers!) i noticed that too. it's strange, because https does work fine on some other servers (i've done a reasonable amount of online shopping using charon). if you *can* work out where the problem might lie, the chances of it being fixed in the near future are higher... :-) From gmail.com!knapjack Thu Jun 17 21:13:00 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.196]) by doppio; Thu Jun 17 21:13:00 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d78so125969rnf for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 13:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.181.77 with SMTP id d77mr95955rnf; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c0620406171240148aaf25@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:40:40 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: Inferno List Subject: Re: [inferno-list] SSL and Charon? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:09:04 +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > try putting the following in your charon config file, > if they aren't set this way already: > > usessl=v2 > usessl=v3 > > it might not make a difference but then it's the same > as i use! > > let me know No luck, but I did realize that I'm using a private address (PAT), with no easy access to a public address space to test otherwise. I did try a variety of other commerical sites to no avail. I'll keep poking. Thanks! -Jack From xaplos.com!macrod Fri Jun 18 04:09:25 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.70]) by doppio; Fri Jun 18 04:09:25 BST 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040618022121.FIMD6980.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 22:21:21 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] CVS Access Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 22:21:11 -0400 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <0CA6A3A9-BEC7-11D8-A41A-003065E1714E@corpus-callosum.com> Thread-Index: AcRS1R/npzZHD9oRRzm+yqB/xzDPlwBi1cRw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-Id: <20040618022121.FIMD6980.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > I'd actually like to see something more along the lines of '9fs > sources' accessible from Inferno and Plan 9 or maybe a replica. > I currently have the release sources to Plan9, and since Inferno is "related", it would be helpful to gain access to the latest Plan9 source. Since Inferno is not available [yet] via CVS, how does one get the latest sources to Plan9? I'd love to be able to peruse the most recent code. Thanks, -Mark From gmail.com!russcox Fri Jun 18 04:20:38 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]) by doppio; Fri Jun 18 04:20:38 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d78so135566rnf for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.92.47 with SMTP id p47mr22947rnb; Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:14:55 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] CVS Access In-Reply-To: <20040618022121.FIMD6980.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20040618022121.FIMD6980.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> > Since Inferno is not available [yet] via CVS, how does one get the latest > sources to Plan9? I'd love to be able to peruse the most recent code. If you're on the internet, run 9fs sources; ls /n/sources/plan9. Also, the CD image on the web page is regenerated every night with the latest sources. Russ From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Fri Jun 18 12:37:35 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Fri Jun 18 12:37:35 BST 2004 Received: from vimp2.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.91]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1BbHbC-00067Z-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:31:58 +0100 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp2.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1BbHb5-0003Tz-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:31:51 +0100 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1BbHb5-0005jq-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:31:51 +0100 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i5IBVosn003156 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:31:50 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:31:50 +0100 (BST) From: Jon Blower X-X-Sender: jdb@marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: problem mounting Grid scheduler Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanner: exiscan *1BbHb5-0003Tz-00*ePixLZxGBbU* (The University of Reading) Hi all, There's probably a very basic solution to this problem but I can't find it! I'm experimenting with the Grid scheduler and I can't seem to mount the scheduler namespace. The scheduler is running under tcp!myaddr!infsched and when I try to mount: mount tcp!myaddr!infsched /n/remote I get an error message "mount: authentication failed: hungup". The odd thing is that I can monitor the scheduler using scheduler/monitor, so that program must be able to mount the namespace (perhaps it doesn't authenticate). I can mount the scheduler without authentication but I don't want to do this really. I should have the correct certificates for the authentication because I can mount other things on the same machine (e.g. I can run svc/net on the remote machine and do an authenticated mount without problems). The really odd thing is that I'm sure I was able to do this yesterday and I can't see what's changed! Any suggestions much appreciated. Jon -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From danny Fri Jun 18 12:41:23 BST 2004 remote from vivido To: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk, inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] problem mounting Grid scheduler Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:41:23 +0100 From: danny In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dcflpdytrmvuwpbzkeigdcxzrt" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dcflpdytrmvuwpbzkeigdcxzrt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Use mount -A tcp!myaddr!infsched /n/remote Which will not attempt to use authentication & then it should work. Danny --upas-dcflpdytrmvuwpbzkeigdcxzrt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Fri Jun 18 12:37:35 BST 2004 Received: from vimp2.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.91]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1BbHbC-00067Z-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:31:58 +0100 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp2.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1BbHb5-0003Tz-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:31:51 +0100 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1BbHb5-0005jq-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:31:51 +0100 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i5IBVosn003156 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:31:50 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:31:50 +0100 (BST) From: Jon Blower X-X-Sender: jdb@marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanner: exiscan *1BbHb5-0003Tz-00*ePixLZxGBbU* (The University of Reading) Subject: [inferno-list] problem mounting Grid scheduler Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Hi all, There's probably a very basic solution to this problem but I can't find it! I'm experimenting with the Grid scheduler and I can't seem to mount the scheduler namespace. The scheduler is running under tcp!myaddr!infsched and when I try to mount: mount tcp!myaddr!infsched /n/remote I get an error message "mount: authentication failed: hungup". The odd thing is that I can monitor the scheduler using scheduler/monitor, so that program must be able to mount the namespace (perhaps it doesn't authenticate). I can mount the scheduler without authentication but I don't want to do this really. I should have the correct certificates for the authentication because I can mount other things on the same machine (e.g. I can run svc/net on the remote machine and do an authenticated mount without problems). The really odd thing is that I'm sure I was able to do this yesterday and I can't see what's changed! Any suggestions much appreciated. Jon -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- --upas-dcflpdytrmvuwpbzkeigdcxzrt-- From danny Fri Jun 18 12:43:28 BST 2004 remote from vivido To: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk, inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] problem mounting Grid scheduler Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:43:28 +0100 From: danny In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-jndgzzlbayxusvkkwqcoihtztx" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jndgzzlbayxusvkkwqcoihtztx Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry, didn't read to the end of the message. At the moment the scheduler does not use authentication (as far as I know) so you can only mount it unauthenticated, that is what the monitor does. Danny --upas-jndgzzlbayxusvkkwqcoihtztx Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Fri Jun 18 12:37:35 BST 2004 Received: from vimp2.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.91]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1BbHbC-00067Z-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:31:58 +0100 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp2.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1BbHb5-0003Tz-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:31:51 +0100 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1BbHb5-0005jq-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:31:51 +0100 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i5IBVosn003156 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:31:50 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:31:50 +0100 (BST) From: Jon Blower X-X-Sender: jdb@marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanner: exiscan *1BbHb5-0003Tz-00*ePixLZxGBbU* (The University of Reading) Subject: [inferno-list] problem mounting Grid scheduler Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Hi all, There's probably a very basic solution to this problem but I can't find it! I'm experimenting with the Grid scheduler and I can't seem to mount the scheduler namespace. The scheduler is running under tcp!myaddr!infsched and when I try to mount: mount tcp!myaddr!infsched /n/remote I get an error message "mount: authentication failed: hungup". The odd thing is that I can monitor the scheduler using scheduler/monitor, so that program must be able to mount the namespace (perhaps it doesn't authenticate). I can mount the scheduler without authentication but I don't want to do this really. I should have the correct certificates for the authentication because I can mount other things on the same machine (e.g. I can run svc/net on the remote machine and do an authenticated mount without problems). The really odd thing is that I'm sure I was able to do this yesterday and I can't see what's changed! Any suggestions much appreciated. Jon -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- --upas-jndgzzlbayxusvkkwqcoihtztx-- From forsyth Fri Jun 18 13:02:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:02:36 +0100 To: danny, jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk, inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] problem mounting Grid scheduler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i checked and it does include authentication, but it can be switched off. i've sent suggestions by e-mail as to how to check whether it is off, and if so, how to have it switched on. if that works, i'll reveal all to the list ... if it doesn't, i'll let roger deal with it! From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Fri Jun 18 13:11:07 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Fri Jun 18 13:11:07 BST 2004 Received: from vimp1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.90]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1BbI7d-0006ww-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:05:29 +0100 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1BbI7Y-0006AA-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:05:24 +0100 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1BbI7Y-0006SB-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:05:24 +0100 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i5IC5Osn006577 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:05:24 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:05:24 +0100 (BST) From: Jon Blower X-X-Sender: jdb@marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] problem mounting Grid scheduler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanner: exiscan *1BbI7Y-0006AA-00*C5Cawre76wQ* (The University of Reading) Thanks Charles and Danny for replies - I can indeed mount the scheduler namespace without authentication, so that must be the problem. Having solved this, I'm trying to write a sh-alphabet expression that will execute a task to read some data, pass it to a Grid for processing and collect the results back again. It looks like this: /appl/alphabet/mkendpoint.sh tcp!mypc!9999 # create a local endpoint -{/read test.data | remote | farm -A tcp!mysched!infsched test md5sum | local | /create results.txt} where I have imported the /grid/remote, /grid/local and /grid/farm keywords. (Note the -A in farm which I now realise is needed!) When I try to run this I get a message "farm: job load failed: cannot open endpoint 0 at tcp!mypc!9999". I am fairly sure I created this endpoint correctly as I can run: -{/read test.data | remote | local | /create results.txt} which just creates a copy of test.data, but proves that the local endpoint works OK (I think). I seem to remember Rog saying that endpoint.b assumes authentication, but I've switched that off for the "farm" command. Any ideas as to what's going wrong? Cheers, Jon On Fri, 18 Jun 2004, Charles Forsyth wrote: > that diagnostic almost certainly means that the scheduler's listener > wasn't configured for authentication when started. > > first try mount -A ... to see if that works. if it does, > authentication had been switched off. > > to enable authentication, see /grid/master/startsched and where it > has {listen ... -A ... } or styxlisten ... -A, remove the -A options. > you might need to remove the -A option on the script or menu entry that invoked > the monitor program. > > perhaps you started the scheduler differently yesterday? > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Jun 18 13:36:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Jun 18 13:36:28 BST 2004 Message-ID: <7b2c036b09e127320dda4ba2514102cd@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] problem mounting Grid scheduler From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:24:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>When I try to run this I get a message "farm: job load failed: cannot open >>endpoint 0 at tcp!mypc!9999". I am fairly sure I created this endpoint it looks to me as though the most recent farm.b has (more) helpfully extended that message to say why it couldn't open the endpoint! i'd also guess that it is going wrong because you've got authentication on for the alphabet and off for the scheduler, and (again it looks it to me that) it needs to be all on or all off. if it isn't inconvenient to restart the scheduler via startsched after having enabled authentication, that might be the best way. it sounds as though authentication is indeed working for you with the ... remote | local ... operations, so it should be all right if you try using it with the scheduler. we normally run Inferno with it enabled for everything. the version of the grid software you've got has it off by default (in the scheduler suite) because that CD image was created for someone who strongly requested it be switched off (nothing to with our authentication, which they hadn't tried, just that they'd had such a bad time with authentication in other grid software, they were certain they didn't want that again.) unfortunately roger's away until much later today. roger invented and developed the alphabet software that underlies this, and i've been either too busy or too lazy, your choice, to come to grips with it myself yet. it is also still under quite active development. From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Fri Jun 18 15:20:54 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Fri Jun 18 15:20:54 BST 2004 Received: from vimp2.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.91]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1BbK9F-000227-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 15:15:17 +0100 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp2.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1BbK98-0003qC-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 15:15:10 +0100 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1BbK98-0001gY-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 15:15:10 +0100 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i5IEF5sn026591 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2004 15:15:05 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 15:15:05 +0100 (BST) From: Jon Blower X-X-Sender: jdb@marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] problem mounting Grid scheduler In-Reply-To: <7b2c036b09e127320dda4ba2514102cd@terzarima.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanner: exiscan *1BbK98-0003qC-00*C.Stym/n1Q2* (The University of Reading) Thanks Charles - I turned authentication back on for the scheduler and the monitor. However, I still get the same message about not being able to open the endpoint. The problem is happening (I think) in endpoint.b at the line in the open() function: if((e = sh->run(nil, "mount"::net+addr::d::nil)) != nil) return (nil, e); Is there anything fishy about this or does it look OK? Cheers, Jon On Fri, 18 Jun 2004, Charles Forsyth wrote: > >>When I try to run this I get a message "farm: job load failed: cannot open > >>endpoint 0 at tcp!mypc!9999". I am fairly sure I created this endpoint > > it looks to me as though the most recent farm.b has (more) helpfully extended that > message to say why it couldn't open the endpoint! > i'd also guess that it is going wrong because you've got authentication on for the alphabet > and off for the scheduler, and (again it looks it to me that) it needs to be all on > or all off. if it isn't inconvenient to restart the scheduler via startsched after having > enabled authentication, that might be the best way. it sounds as though authentication > is indeed working for you with the ... remote | local ... operations, so it should be > all right if you try using it with the scheduler. we normally run Inferno with it > enabled for everything. the version of the grid software you've got has it off > by default (in the scheduler suite) because that CD image was created for someone > who strongly requested it be switched off (nothing to with our authentication, > which they hadn't tried, just that they'd had such a bad time with > authentication in other grid software, they were certain they didn't want that again.) > > unfortunately roger's away until much later today. > roger invented and developed the alphabet software that underlies this, and i've > been either too busy or too lazy, your choice, to come to grips with it myself yet. > it is also still under quite active development. > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From infernopark.com!vdharani Sun Jun 20 18:33:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plain.rackshack.net ([207.44.192.47]) by doppio; Sun Jun 20 18:33:28 BST 2004 Received: from www.infernopark.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by plain.rackshack.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i5KMZ1am004968; Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:35:01 -0500 Received: from 192.11.226.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:35:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <41934.192.11.226.116.1087770901.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> In-Reply-To: <40C6C6E8.1000302@chunder.com> References: <7359f049040607085354f3851c@mail.gmail.com><40C56B70.90404@mipk.kharkiv.edu> <40C6C6E8.1000302@chunder.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:35:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [9fans] A prick into the wasps' nest ;-) From: vdharani@infernopark.com To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@cse.psu.edu>, inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Bruce, > $50 386 from china. copy the conf file and delete > the drivers you don't need. type mk. enjoy. can you provide any pointers? > or the wrt54g router is a more expensive minimum. i want to buy one and try it out. will you or someone be able to provide me instructions on how to get started? Can I do tftp boot? how easy is it to get started with this hardware? for a long time, i wanted to play with this. if someone can help me, it would be great. thanks dharani From cs.indiana.edu!geobrown Mon Jun 21 14:53:43 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu ([129.79.254.191]) by doppio; Mon Jun 21 14:53:43 BST 2004 Received: from cs.indiana.edu (bl-csci-54207.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.246.133]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUCS_2.61) with ESMTP id i5LDm35J006582 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2004 08:48:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40D6E710.1080200@cs.indiana.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 08:48:00 -0500 From: Geoffrey Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: reading from unix pts, fifos, etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was trying to get access to Unix processes through ternials (pts) by putting a soft link in the inferno file tree and opening the pty within inferno. I gave up on this without further investigation when I got an "Illegal Seek" error. I then tried creating a named fifo within a Unix process in the inferno file tree. Attempts to read this file also led to an "Illegal Seek" error. Upon further investigation, I found the devfs-posix.c interface to the unix file system in the emulator always uses pread. I believe this system call (on Linux at least) always attempts to "seek" which isn't legal for "files" such as fifos and terminals. Is there an obvious way to do what I want -- communicate with a unix process through a pipe or terminal interface ? I'm trying to debug code which will eventually live at the end of a serial line. Geoffrey From forsyth Mon Jun 21 15:52:56 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] reading from unix pts, fifos, etc. From: C H Forsyth Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:52:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: <40D6E710.1080200@cs.indiana.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-onintjwscmwtjhvzjzfuqrrcdl" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-onintjwscmwtjhvzjzfuqrrcdl Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pread doesn't attempt to seek, but it (correctly) doesn't update the current offset for the file, either. Linux doesn't intercept seek, but checks by comparing the read offset to the current file offset, which requires the check all over the source and in nearly all devices (just grep for ESPIPE). ugh. then again, i'd have thought they should still agree if you're just using read, since the resulting offset from that should shadow the one kept by Linux. no, i see: it's completely device dependent as to whether the offset changes, and if so, to what. brilliant. i'll make a change, once i work out what it should be. in the particular cases of a pipe or tty, though, using sys->pread with offset 0 might get round it. --upas-onintjwscmwtjhvzjzfuqrrcdl Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu ([129.79.254.191]) by doppio; Mon Jun 21 14:53:43 BST 2004 Received: from cs.indiana.edu (bl-csci-54207.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.246.133]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUCS_2.61) with ESMTP id i5LDm35J006582 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2004 08:48:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40D6E710.1080200@cs.indiana.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 08:48:00 -0500 From: Geoffrey Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [inferno-list] reading from unix pts, fifos, etc. Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk I was trying to get access to Unix processes through ternials (pts) by putting a soft link in the inferno file tree and opening the pty within inferno. I gave up on this without further investigation when I got an "Illegal Seek" error. I then tried creating a named fifo within a Unix process in the inferno file tree. Attempts to read this file also led to an "Illegal Seek" error. Upon further investigation, I found the devfs-posix.c interface to the unix file system in the emulator always uses pread. I believe this system call (on Linux at least) always attempts to "seek" which isn't legal for "files" such as fifos and terminals. Is there an obvious way to do what I want -- communicate with a unix process through a pipe or terminal interface ? I'm trying to debug code which will eventually live at the end of a serial line. Geoffrey --upas-onintjwscmwtjhvzjzfuqrrcdl-- From cs.indiana.edu!geobrown Wed Jun 23 14:07:01 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu ([129.79.254.191]) by doppio; Wed Jun 23 14:07:01 BST 2004 Received: from cs.indiana.edu (bl-csci-54207.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.246.133]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUCS_2.61) with ESMTP id i5ND1Kn2028503; Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:01:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40D97F1E.2080506@cs.indiana.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:01:18 -0500 From: Geoffrey Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: C H Forsyth CC: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] reading from unix pts, fifos, etc. References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010802090502020306060000" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010802090502020306060000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes that does seem to work. In spite of the name "ESPIPE" suggesting that the error is specific to pipes, it does appear to apply to other devices that don't allow seek. For example, linking a pts into the address space used by inferno on Linux makes it possible to read and write to a terminal (for example an x window). I've tried both fifos and pts and they appear to work correctly. Geoffrey C H Forsyth wrote: >i think that's the only one that i need to deal with here, >detecting the mismatch between pread/read and pwrite/write. >the underlying problem is that the way Linux implements it, >only the device knows the seek offset it's willing to accep; >i can't even shadow it because in general i don't know by >how much it will advance it (it decides). sometimes the device >advances it, but it's often left at 0 (as for pipes). >you can't call lseek(fd, 0, 1) to see where it has left it, >because that returns ESPIPE! >by `device' i mean not just S_IFCHR vs S_IFREG vs S_IFIFO, but >the specific device driver. i was relieved when i realised >that this correction would relieve me of having >to check lseek(fd, 0, 1) for ESPIPE on open, and >try to second-guess the driver, which would probably amount >to much the same technique! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: [inferno-list] reading from unix pts, fifos, etc. > From: > Geoffrey Brown > Date: > Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:31:42 -0500 > To: > C H Forsyth > > > That seems to work. Seems ugly if you have to deal with all the > possible types of errors. > > Geoffrey > > C H Forsyth wrote: > >> try replacing fsread and fswrite by the following: >> >> >> static long >> fsread(Chan *c, void *va, long n, vlong offset) >> { >> long r; >> >> if(c->qid.type & QTDIR){ >> qlock(&FS(c)->oq); >> if(waserror()) { >> qunlock(&FS(c)->oq); >> nexterror(); >> } >> r = fsdirread(c, va, n, offset); >> poperror(); >> qunlock(&FS(c)->oq); >> }else{ >> r = pread(FS(c)->fd, va, n, offset); >> if(r < 0 && errno == ESPIPE){ >> r = read(FS(c)->fd, va, n); >> if(r < 0) >> fserr(); >> } >> } >> return r; >> } >> >> static long >> fswrite(Chan *c, void *va, long n, vlong offset) >> { >> long r; >> >> r = pwrite(FS(c)->fd, va, n, offset); >> if(r < 0 && errno == ESPIPE){ >> r = write(FS(c)->fd, va, n); >> if(r < 0) >> fserr(); >> } >> return r; >> } >> >> --------------010802090502020306060000 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes that does seem to work.  In spite of the name "ESPIPE" suggesting that the error is specific to pipes,
it does appear to apply to other devices that don't allow seek.  For example, linking a pts into the address
space used by inferno on Linux makes it possible to read and write to a terminal (for example an x window).
I've tried both fifos and pts and they appear to work correctly.



Geoffrey

C H Forsyth wrote:
i think that's the only one that i need to deal with here,
detecting the mismatch between pread/read and pwrite/write.
the underlying problem is that the way Linux implements it,
only the device knows the seek offset it's willing to accep;
i can't even shadow it because in general i don't know by
how much it will advance it (it decides).  sometimes the device
advances it, but it's often left at 0 (as for pipes).
you can't call lseek(fd, 0, 1) to see where it has left it,
because that returns ESPIPE!
by `device' i mean not just S_IFCHR vs S_IFREG vs S_IFIFO, but
the specific device driver.  i was relieved when i realised
that this correction would relieve me of having
to check lseek(fd, 0, 1) for ESPIPE on open, and
try to second-guess the driver, which would probably amount
to much the same technique!


Subject:
Re: [inferno-list] reading from unix pts, fifos, etc.
From:
Geoffrey Brown <geobrown@cs.indiana.edu>
Date:
Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:31:42 -0500
To:
C H Forsyth <forsyth@vitanuova.com>

That seems to work.   Seems ugly if you have to deal with all the possible types of errors.

Geoffrey

C H Forsyth wrote:

try replacing fsread and fswrite by the following:


static long
fsread(Chan *c, void *va, long n, vlong offset)
{
    long r;

    if(c->qid.type & QTDIR){
        qlock(&FS(c)->oq);
        if(waserror()) {
            qunlock(&FS(c)->oq);
            nexterror();
        }
        r = fsdirread(c, va, n, offset);
        poperror();
        qunlock(&FS(c)->oq);
    }else{
        r = pread(FS(c)->fd, va, n, offset);
        if(r < 0 && errno == ESPIPE){
            r = read(FS(c)->fd, va, n);
            if(r < 0)
                fserr();
        }
    }
    return r;
}

static long
fswrite(Chan *c, void *va, long n, vlong offset)
{
    long r;

    r = pwrite(FS(c)->fd, va, n, offset);
    if(r < 0 && errno == ESPIPE){
        r = write(FS(c)->fd, va, n);
        if(r < 0)
            fserr();
    }
    return r;
}
 

--------------010802090502020306060000-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed Jun 23 14:20:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed Jun 23 14:20:45 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] reading from unix pts, fifos, etc. From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:15:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: <40D97F1E.2080506@cs.indiana.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wqjtcfsvcaymouyaibjqvrnglo" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wqjtcfsvcaymouyaibjqvrnglo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit good; i actually tested it correctly myself this time, first. i don't know why i didn't notice it before, when i made the change. i probably concentrated on the 64-bit/pread side of things without re-testing #t, not thinking at all of the effect on that. in future i'll read the linux/freebsd code before i use something, too! --upas-wqjtcfsvcaymouyaibjqvrnglo Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Wed Jun 23 14:11:15 BST 2004 Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu ([129.79.254.191]) by doppio; Wed Jun 23 14:07:01 BST 2004 Received: from cs.indiana.edu (bl-csci-54207.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.246.133]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUCS_2.61) with ESMTP id i5ND1Kn2028503; Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:01:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40D97F1E.2080506@cs.indiana.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:01:18 -0500 From: Geoffrey Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: C H Forsyth CC: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010802090502020306060000" Subject: Re: [inferno-list] reading from unix pts, fifos, etc. Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010802090502020306060000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes that does seem to work. In spite of the name "ESPIPE" suggesting that the error is specific to pipes, it does appear to apply to other devices that don't allow seek. For example, linking a pts into the address space used by inferno on Linux makes it possible to read and write to a terminal (for example an x window). I've tried both fifos and pts and they appear to work correctly. Geoffrey C H Forsyth wrote: >i think that's the only one that i need to deal with here, >detecting the mismatch between pread/read and pwrite/write. >the underlying problem is that the way Linux implements it, >only the device knows the seek offset it's willing to accep; >i can't even shadow it because in general i don't know by >how much it will advance it (it decides). sometimes the device >advances it, but it's often left at 0 (as for pipes). >you can't call lseek(fd, 0, 1) to see where it has left it, >because that returns ESPIPE! >by `device' i mean not just S_IFCHR vs S_IFREG vs S_IFIFO, but >the specific device driver. i was relieved when i realised >that this correction would relieve me of having >to check lseek(fd, 0, 1) for ESPIPE on open, and >try to second-guess the driver, which would probably amount >to much the same technique! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: [inferno-list] reading from unix pts, fifos, etc. > From: > Geoffrey Brown > Date: > Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:31:42 -0500 > To: > C H Forsyth > > > That seems to work. Seems ugly if you have to deal with all the > possible types of errors. > > Geoffrey > > C H Forsyth wrote: > >> try replacing fsread and fswrite by the following: >> >> >> static long >> fsread(Chan *c, void *va, long n, vlong offset) >> { >> long r; >> >> if(c->qid.type & QTDIR){ >> qlock(&FS(c)->oq); >> if(waserror()) { >> qunlock(&FS(c)->oq); >> nexterror(); >> } >> r = fsdirread(c, va, n, offset); >> poperror(); >> qunlock(&FS(c)->oq); >> }else{ >> r = pread(FS(c)->fd, va, n, offset); >> if(r < 0 && errno == ESPIPE){ >> r = read(FS(c)->fd, va, n); >> if(r < 0) >> fserr(); >> } >> } >> return r; >> } >> >> static long >> fswrite(Chan *c, void *va, long n, vlong offset) >> { >> long r; >> >> r = pwrite(FS(c)->fd, va, n, offset); >> if(r < 0 && errno == ESPIPE){ >> r = write(FS(c)->fd, va, n); >> if(r < 0) >> fserr(); >> } >> return r; >> } >> >> --------------010802090502020306060000 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes that does seem to work.  In spite of the name "ESPIPE" suggesting that the error is specific to pipes,
it does appear to apply to other devices that don't allow seek.  For example, linking a pts into the address
space used by inferno on Linux makes it possible to read and write to a terminal (for example an x window).
I've tried both fifos and pts and they appear to work correctly.



Geoffrey

C H Forsyth wrote:
i think that's the only one that i need to deal with here,
detecting the mismatch between pread/read and pwrite/write.
the underlying problem is that the way Linux implements it,
only the device knows the seek offset it's willing to accep;
i can't even shadow it because in general i don't know by
how much it will advance it (it decides).  sometimes the device
advances it, but it's often left at 0 (as for pipes).
you can't call lseek(fd, 0, 1) to see where it has left it,
because that returns ESPIPE!
by `device' i mean not just S_IFCHR vs S_IFREG vs S_IFIFO, but
the specific device driver.  i was relieved when i realised
that this correction would relieve me of having
to check lseek(fd, 0, 1) for ESPIPE on open, and
try to second-guess the driver, which would probably amount
to much the same technique!


Subject:
Re: [inferno-list] reading from unix pts, fifos, etc.
From:
Geoffrey Brown <geobrown@cs.indiana.edu>
Date:
Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:31:42 -0500
To:
C H Forsyth <forsyth@vitanuova.com>

That seems to work.   Seems ugly if you have to deal with all the possible types of errors.

Geoffrey

C H Forsyth wrote:

try replacing fsread and fswrite by the following:


static long
fsread(Chan *c, void *va, long n, vlong offset)
{
    long r;

    if(c->qid.type & QTDIR){
        qlock(&FS(c)->oq);
        if(waserror()) {
            qunlock(&FS(c)->oq);
            nexterror();
        }
        r = fsdirread(c, va, n, offset);
        poperror();
        qunlock(&FS(c)->oq);
    }else{
        r = pread(FS(c)->fd, va, n, offset);
        if(r < 0 && errno == ESPIPE){
            r = read(FS(c)->fd, va, n);
            if(r < 0)
                fserr();
        }
    }
    return r;
}

static long
fswrite(Chan *c, void *va, long n, vlong offset)
{
    long r;

    r = pwrite(FS(c)->fd, va, n, offset);
    if(r < 0 && errno == ESPIPE){
        r = write(FS(c)->fd, va, n);
        if(r < 0)
            fserr();
    }
    return r;
}
 

--------------010802090502020306060000-- --upas-wqjtcfsvcaymouyaibjqvrnglo-- From dplanet.ch!pbaur Thu Jun 24 01:20:10 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from carmel.ch ([217.162.138.17]) by doppio; Thu Jun 24 01:20:10 BST 2004 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carmel.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54E9722E698 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 2004 01:42:30 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Patrick Baur Subject: Inferno on Psion Netbook Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 01:42:30 +0200 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Hi everybody. Is there any reason in particular why Inferno never came to the Psion Netbook? I still consider it to be kind of *ideal* as platform for Inferno (and as far as I understand, the CPU is already supported): It's small, lightweight, memory constrained yet powerful and usable (i.e. keyboard and screen). Also, it features good connectivity... Regards, Patrick. From teleware.fi!anssi.porttikivi Thu Jun 24 14:12:11 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from hkisrv08.tw.fi ([193.65.76.105]) by doppio; Thu Jun 24 14:12:11 BST 2004 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Disposition-Notification-To: "Anssi Porttikivi" Subject: VS: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 16:11:22 +0300 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme Thread-Index: AcRSOCWaqSunv0e+R7GDv7lhdK6mzAHs82GA From: "Anssi Porttikivi" To: I have the exactly same symptoms, and the same OS version than as Ben.=20 -----Alkuper=E4inen viesti----- L=E4hett=E4j=E4: Ben Huntsman [mailto:BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu]=20 L=E4hetetty: 14. kes=E4kuuta 2004 20:29 Vastaanottaja: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Aihe: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin, list archive, popmail in acme >>> C H Forsyth 6/14/2004 9:59:57 AM >>> >which demo(s) are you trying to run when `download failed'? All of them, except shell, which exhibits the problem I described = earlier. Those that load multiple .dis modules produce the error = multiple times, one for each module. From gmail.com!knapjack Sun Jun 27 16:12:29 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.240]) by doppio; Sun Jun 27 16:12:29 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x17so206410cwb for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2004 08:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.24.34 with SMTP id 34mr59121rnx; Sun, 27 Jun 2004 08:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c062040627080040f8052d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 08:00:08 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] SSL and Charon? In-Reply-To: <6e35c062040627075836b0ffe4@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <181898abf8623a9e9a50dd3572b59984@vitanuova.com> <6e35c062040627075836b0ffe4@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 07:58:17 -0700, Jack Johnson wrote: > Attached are the raw captures in case anyone is curious. I suppose actual attachments would be handy. -Jack From gmail.com!knapjack Sun Jun 27 16:30:38 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.244]) by doppio; Sun Jun 27 16:30:38 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so208176cwb for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2004 08:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.181.8 with SMTP id d8mr89860rnf; Sun, 27 Jun 2004 07:58:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c062040627075836b0ffe4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 07:58:17 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] SSL and Charon? In-Reply-To: <181898abf8623a9e9a50dd3572b59984@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <181898abf8623a9e9a50dd3572b59984@vitanuova.com> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:19:15 +0100, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > it's strange, because https does work fine on some other > servers (i've done a reasonable amount of online shopping using > charon). Can you recall which servers you might have been shopping at? I have not yet been able to find a site where I can get https working. > if you *can* work out where the problem might lie, the > chances of it being fixed in the near future are higher... :-) Well, I'm slowly learning a bit about how https connections get established, and I've used tcpdump to compare the process between Firefox and Charon. Attached are the raw captures in case anyone is curious. In the "success" capture, you'll see the client request and server acknowlegement and then the client starts to initiate the secure connection (TLS in this case), sending its cipher suite, etc. In the failure, you'll see the initial request and the server acknowlegement, but then it's as if Charon never sees the acknowlegement and it never attempts to initiate the SSL connection. I've just figured out how to get debugging turned on in Charon, but I'm still experimenting to see if it will be useful in this case. -Jack From rog Mon Jun 28 19:40:39 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] SSL and Charon? Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:40:39 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <6e35c062040627075836b0ffe4@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Can you recall which servers you might have been shopping at? I have > not yet been able to find a site where I can get https working. the first one i tried, amazon.co.uk, works fine for me. From gmail.com!knapjack Tue Jun 29 15:05:49 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.247]) by doppio; Tue Jun 29 15:05:49 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x71so332214cwb for ; Tue, 29 Jun 2004 07:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.181.8 with SMTP id d8mr141989rnf; Tue, 29 Jun 2004 07:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c06204062907004115e829@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 07:00:06 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] SSL and Charon? In-Reply-To: <15ba641c93a5e991035989d5144d870d@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <15ba641c93a5e991035989d5144d870d@vitanuova.com> On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:40:39 +0100, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > the first one i tried, amazon.co.uk, works fine for me. I could hardly believe it. I started wondering what might be different in your environment, started digging through the man pages, and lo and behold, /n/ssl needs to exist in order for charon to initiate an ssl connection. Gmail still breaks, but that's another issue. One down, one to go! -Jack From terzarima.net!forsyth Tue Jun 29 15:26:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Tue Jun 29 15:26:20 BST 2004 Message-ID: <8f1c96ad05db7da75af37201d0c0320b@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] SSL and Charon? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:19:43 +0100 In-Reply-To: <6e35c06204062907004115e829@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>started digging through the man pages, and lo and behold, /n/ssl needs >>to exist in order for charon to initiate an ssl connection. that's not supposed to be needed any more (SSL uses #D directly), but sure enough, /appl/lib/crypt/ssl3.b officiously checks for it. just remove the code there that checks for /n/ssl, as i've just done, and leave it looking like this: ssl = load SSL SSL->PATH; if(ssl == nil) return "ssl3: load SSL module failed"; sslsession = load SSLsession SSLsession->PATH; if(sslsession == nil) return "ssl3: load sslsession module failed"; From gmail.com!knapjack Thu Jul 1 02:30:18 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.201]) by doppio; Thu Jul 1 02:30:18 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d19so477258rnf for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.72.77 with SMTP id u77mr12039rna; Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c062040630142473804345@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:24:36 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] SSL and Charon? In-Reply-To: <8f1c96ad05db7da75af37201d0c0320b@terzarima.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_14_11208016.1088630676642" References: <8f1c96ad05db7da75af37201d0c0320b@terzarima.net> ------=_Part_14_11208016.1088630676642 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:19:43 +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > that's not supposed to be needed any more (SSL uses #D directly), > but sure enough, /appl/lib/crypt/ssl3.b officiously checks for it. > just remove the code there that checks for /n/ssl, as i've > just done, and leave it looking like this: Thanks! More on the SSL front, I think the Gmail issue is SSL-related (either client- or server-side). I'm using an SSL encryption check page at: https://www.fortify.net/sslcheck.html which fails with a server-side SSLv3 alert, and the following debug message: http 1: connection failed: do_protocol: wrong protocol side or protocol message: do_handshake: ServerCertificate Gmail fails with a similar SSLv3 client-side alert. Attached are the related Ethereal dumps. -Jack ------=_Part_14_11208016.1088630676642 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="fortify.dump" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="fortify.dump" 1MOyoQIABAAAAAAAAAAAAP//AAABAAAABirjQM0fAAA+AAAAPgAAAAAg4EVxsQACLSWipwgARQAA MEdiQACABpy1wKgAA8ZBj8MGGwG75bEm9AAAAABwAvwAW/IAAAIEBbQBAQQCBirjQMH8AgA+AAAA PgAAAAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARQAAMDYWQAAvBv8BxkGPw8CoAAMBuwYbshZ/UOWxJvVwEvrwK4oA AAEBBAICBAW0BirjQAz9AgA2AAAANgAAAAAg4EVxsQACLSWipwgARQAAKEdjQACABpy8wKgAA8ZB j8MGGwG75bEm9bIWf1FQEPwAVz4AAAYq40DHxQMAngAAAJ4AAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAJBH ZEAAgAacU8CoAAPGQY/DBhsBu+WxJvWyFn9RUBj8AFt2AAAWAwAAYwEAAF8DAEDjKgYiZ/qabPjc HU+1VRsjcUnuhfOTTQoKYabNpxRVAAA4AAMABAAFAAYABwAIAAkACgALAAwADQAOAA8AEAARABIA EwAUABUAFgAXABgAGQAaABsAHAAdAB4BAAYq40DcDAYAPAAAADwAAAAAAi0loqcAIOBFcbEIAEUA ACg2F0AALwb/CMZBj8PAqAADAbsGG7IWf1HlsSddUBD68FfmAAAAAAAAAAAGKuNAoXEHADQEAAA0 BAAAAAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFAAQmNhhAAC8G+wnGQY/DwKgAAwG7BhuyFn9R5bEnXVAY+vBGvQAA FgMAACoCAAAmAwBA4yoHmnvMaNi3gYuFgqsVTTIrQRCVajSyN0RJ1oIUKwAAAwAWAwAC7wsAAusA AugAAuUwggLhMIICSqADAgECAgMAzjcwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQAwgcQxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUw EwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEdMBsGA1UEChMUVGhhd3Rl IENvbnN1bHRpbmcgY2MxKDAmBgNVBAsTH0NlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gU2VydmljZXMgRGl2aXNpb24x GTAXBgNVBAMTEFRoYXd0ZSBTZXJ2ZXIgQ0ExJjAkBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWF3NlcnZlci1jZXJ0c0B0 aGF3dGUuY29tMB4XDTAwMDIyMjEwMzEyOVoXDTAxMDMwNzEwMzEyOVowfzELMAkGA1UEBhMCQVUx CjAIBgNVBAgTAS4xETAPBgNVBAcTCEJlbGdyYXZlMSEwHwYDVQQKExhXYXlmYXJlciBTeXN0ZW1z IFB0eSBMdGQxFjAUBgNVBAsTDUZhcnJlbGwgTWNLYXkxFjAUBgNVBAMWDSouRm9ydGlmeS5uZXQw gZ8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADgY0AMIGJAoGBAPKJ/XvitLduze6P/eXKoxptDJqsy0VLf0naqRMc dltjHk+LHnnJqPA4H8q1iUa+8XDnil8OzTHyr6pVwYsqGsL1LnHx3W1DdpTlepT8AIVvpdVrGysC G2sSUMIOE28MMPK9/YJ5hNLIUt1C5cocdoRFVUhO9pIMjFYVYfemDnv5AgMBAAGjJTAjMBMGA1Ud JQQMMAoGCCsGAQUFBwMBMAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQADgYEAChzjQ3LCGRlW XshzPopOcc1lKwJAGhwnFSpK223mIbP4BOKMyEl5NUMjupeKQCXXUtBivf7H/HnWAvC8AzGfZvlr stqgX5oDPMWr23etM9jjve5PLMJarLinZbzsmmMGO1oRrPQJDpjvbA5rYAJGZfmTxIfdERFVtvrB qHPJECAWAwAAzQwAAMkAQORZs3+TyFjwMoBXPIPzFW61XW1+RAIWneOBqBUJ7YbtPHeYbp4jTeF1 OcM9Z1tRhgT+IwvbXyw4oPB88qjXYKsAAwEAAQCAsUSyIkKzjrte82ejHsFY8gVy3gmgLNXWf41K VQcImfTCPv1fIlEOksI3l+J0NwJvZCqE6OLBw/P6Wsxqa9YVH1Yhm5AZ9hhSiqK91a+Pm7J9K3/t rM53ZqqrRuhxISQ6jIZwz1TnemstEGrwsG0ABXlNY3vf0pgBobVCTHRARJsWAwAABA4AAAAGKuNA yngHAD0AAAA9AAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABFAAAvR2VAAIAGnLPAqAADxkGPwwYbAbvlsSddshaD T1AY+AI1wgAAFQMAAAICCgYq40BZfAcANgAAADYAAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAChHZkAAgAac ucCoAAPGQY/DBhsBu+WxJ2SyFoNPUAQAAE7eAAAGKuNAS/0IAD4AAAA+AAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKn CABFAAAwR2dAAIAGnLDAqAADxkGPwwYcAbvltGJYAAAAAHAC/AAgigAAAgQFtAEBBAIGKuNAr3YJ ADwAAAA8AAAAAAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFAAAoNhlAAC8G/wbGQY/DwKgAAwG7BhuyFoNP5bEnZFAR +vBT4AAAAAAAAAAABirjQPR2CQA2AAAANgAAAAAg4EVxsQACLSWipwgARQAAKEdoAACABty3wKgA A8ZBj8MGGwG75bEnZOWxJ2RQBAAAdy4AAAYq40AJiQsAPgAAAD4AAAAAAi0loqcAIOBFcbEIAEUA ADA2GkAALwb+/cZBj8PAqAADAbsGHHrz+x/ltGJZcBL68Kt1AAABAQQCAgQFtAYq40BJiQsANgAA ADYAAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAChHaUAAgAactsCoAAPGQY/DBhwBu+W0Yll68/sgUBD8ANcp AAAGKuNAqpILAJ4AAACeAAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABFAACQR2pAAIAGnE3AqAADxkGPwwYcAbvl tGJZevP7IFAY/ABEhgAAFgMAAGMBAABfAwBA4yoGDd1EaKvo5iKSTI+ZIOdAo9NZRaN5N/GnITWt +gAAOAADAAQABQAGAAcACAAJAAoACwAMAA0ADgAPABAAEQASABMAFAAVABYAFwAYABkAGgAbABwA HQAeAQAGKuNAsA8OADwAAAA8AAAAAAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFAAAoNhtAAC8G/wTGQY/DwKgAAwG7 Bhx68/sg5bRiwVAQ+vDX0QAAAAAAAAAABirjQDfrDgA0BAAANAQAAAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARQAE JjYcQAAvBvsFxkGPw8CoAAMBuwYcevP7IOW0YsFQGPrwnjgAABYDAAAqAgAAJgMAQOMqBxzn5xIV ywebI3AySYH8MDERK9j47zBrwv/MuY0AAAMAFgMAAu8LAALrAALoAALlMIIC4TCCAkqgAwIBAgID AM43MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAMIHEMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTEVMBMGA1UECBMMV2VzdGVybiBDYXBl MRIwEAYDVQQHEwlDYXBlIFRvd24xHTAbBgNVBAoTFFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIGNjMSgwJgYD VQQLEx9DZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIFNlcnZpY2VzIERpdmlzaW9uMRkwFwYDVQQDExBUaGF3dGUgU2Vy dmVyIENBMSYwJAYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhdzZXJ2ZXItY2VydHNAdGhhd3RlLmNvbTAeFw0wMDAyMjIx MDMxMjlaFw0wMTAzMDcxMDMxMjlaMH8xCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVMQowCAYDVQQIEwEuMREwDwYDVQQH EwhCZWxncmF2ZTEhMB8GA1UEChMYV2F5ZmFyZXIgU3lzdGVtcyBQdHkgTHRkMRYwFAYDVQQLEw1G YXJyZWxsIE1jS2F5MRYwFAYDVQQDFg0qLkZvcnRpZnkubmV0MIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GN ADCBiQKBgQDyif174rS3bs3uj/3lyqMabQyarMtFS39J2qkTHHZbYx5Pix55yajwOB/KtYlGvvFw 54pfDs0x8q+qVcGLKhrC9S5x8d1tQ3aU5XqU/ACFb6XVaxsrAhtrElDCDhNvDDDyvf2CeYTSyFLd QuXKHHaERVVITvaSDIxWFWH3pg57+QIDAQABoyUwIzATBgNVHSUEDDAKBggrBgEFBQcDATAMBgNV HRMBAf8EAjAAMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAA4GBAAoc40NywhkZVl7Icz6KTnHNZSsCQBocJxUqSttt 5iGz+ATijMhJeTVDI7qXikAl11LQYr3+x/x51gLwvAMxn2b5a7LaoF+aAzzFq9t3rTPY473uTyzC Wqy4p2W87JpjBjtaEaz0CQ6Y72wOa2ACRmX5k8SH3RERVbb6wahzyRAgFgMAAM0MAADJAEDkWbN/ k8hY8DKAVzyD8xVutV1tfkQCFp3jgagVCe2G7Tx3mG6eI03hdTnDPWdbUYYE/iML218sOKDwfPKo 12CrAAMBAAEAgGrELCPcxOdrBm32xaDD8DLOHo8a4YgpCr4fS38hE5p9pBbSCvOgzIzkAeCxm8JV XI9cgdcsS3YsuTLeMG0KpnM+wJzjt6TW70MM2TDEfDKIs1EDYCpVN3Oj3g843obE8Fk37F5ikqQu I+P5JcOPQJtzE/gTEVNQfw7YyLrgkAVRFgMAAAQOAAAABirjQP7zDgA9AAAAPQAAAAAg4EVxsQAC LSWipwgARQAAL0drQACABpytwKgAA8ZBj8MGHAG75bRiwXrz/x5QGPgCta0AABUDAAACAgoGKuNA tvcOADYAAAA2AAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABFAAAoR2xAAIAGnLPAqAADxkGPwwYcAbvltGLIevP/ HlAEAADOyQAAByrjQKI4AQA+AAAAPgAAAAAg4EVxsQACLSWipwgARQAAMEdtQACABpyqwKgAA8ZB j8MGHQG75bbbCgAAAABwAvwAp9QAAAIEBbQBAQQCByrjQM50AQA8AAAAPAAAAAACLSWipwAg4EVx sQgARQAAKDYdQAAvBv8CxkGPw8CoAAMBuwYcevP/HuW0YshQEfrw08sAAAAAAAAAAAcq40AUdQEA NgAAADYAAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAChHbgAAgAbcscCoAAPGQY/DBhwBu+W0YsjltGLIUAQA AABfAAAHKuNAPDkDAD4AAAA+AAAAAAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFAAAwNh5AAC8G/vnGQY/DwKgAAwG7 Bh27AsOQ5bbbC3AS+vAqQAAAAQEEAgIEBbQHKuNAijkDADYAAAA2AAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABF AAAoR29AAIAGnLDAqAADxkGPwwYdAbvlttsLuwLDkVAQ/ABV9AAAByrjQO6kAwCeAAAAngAAAAAg 4EVxsQACLSWipwgARQAAkEdwQACABpxHwKgAA8ZBj8MGHQG75bbbC7sCw5FQGPwAJ38AABYDAABj AQAAXwMAQOMqBxWVFZKsL6hYF1lhkiz+VqPwfBSvRoH1sAvawvMAADgAAwAEAAUABgAHAAgACQAK AAsADAANAA4ADwAQABEAEgATABQAFQAWABcAGAAZABoAGwAcAB0AHgEAByrjQABqBgA8AAAAPAAA AAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARQAAKDYfQAAvBv8AxkGPw8CoAAMBuwYduwLDkeW223NQEPrwVpwAAAAA AAAAAAcq40BoUgcANAQAADQEAAAAAi0loqcAIOBFcbEIAEUABCY2IEAALwb7AcZBj8PAqAADAbsG HbsCw5HltttzUBj68I4XAAAWAwAAKgIAACYDAEDjKggHSvenrcnUSU3dnTNq6EJn08bX1t6NOGFQ RY1oAAADABYDAALvCwAC6wAC6AAC5TCCAuEwggJKoAMCAQICAwDONzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADCB xDELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExFTATBgNVBAgTDFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3du MR0wGwYDVQQKExRUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyBjYzEoMCYGA1UECxMfQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBT ZXJ2aWNlcyBEaXZpc2lvbjEZMBcGA1UEAxMQVGhhd3RlIFNlcnZlciBDQTEmMCQGCSqGSIb3DQEJ ARYXc2VydmVyLWNlcnRzQHRoYXd0ZS5jb20wHhcNMDAwMjIyMTAzMTI5WhcNMDEwMzA3MTAzMTI5 WjB/MQswCQYDVQQGEwJBVTEKMAgGA1UECBMBLjERMA8GA1UEBxMIQmVsZ3JhdmUxITAfBgNVBAoT GFdheWZhcmVyIFN5c3RlbXMgUHR5IEx0ZDEWMBQGA1UECxMNRmFycmVsbCBNY0theTEWMBQGA1UE AxYNKi5Gb3J0aWZ5Lm5ldDCBnzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAwgYkCgYEA8on9e+K0t27N7o/9 5cqjGm0MmqzLRUt/SdqpExx2W2MeT4seecmo8DgfyrWJRr7xcOeKXw7NMfKvqlXBiyoawvUucfHd bUN2lOV6lPwAhW+l1WsbKwIbaxJQwg4Tbwww8r39gnmE0shS3ULlyhx2hEVVSE72kgyMVhVh96YO e/kCAwEAAaMlMCMwEwYDVR0lBAwwCgYIKwYBBQUHAwEwDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADANBgkqhkiG9w0B AQQFAAOBgQAKHONDcsIZGVZeyHM+ik5xzWUrAkAaHCcVKkrbbeYhs/gE4ozISXk1QyO6l4pAJddS 0GK9/sf8edYC8LwDMZ9m+Wuy2qBfmgM8xavbd60z2OO97k8swlqsuKdlvOyaYwY7WhGs9AkOmO9s DmtgAkZl+ZPEh90REVW2+sGoc8kQIBYDAADNDAAAyQBA5Fmzf5PIWPAygFc8g/MVbrVdbX5EAhad 44GoFQnthu08d5huniNN4XU5wz1nW1GGBP4jC9tfLDig8HzyqNdgqwADAQABAIBX3mP6Tx3kZ91v vZiIDjMQYHYbn4pSUW66QgFOErE9OOpIDrwpTEjp/DGtIbein8/XTf2wZG46cfKaMbFTdYICZv30 Ef1ULvk6yX74xIlO0J3ThngL8UzlRafwq1IP56aIId8uuof+aGhLow6XWOcRfUjTSmBlAWAoCPZU iznU/RYDAAAEDgAAAAcq40D+WwcAPQAAAD0AAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAC9HcUAAgAacp8Co AAPGQY/DBh0Bu+W223O7AsePUBj4AjR4AAAVAwAAAgIKByrjQKhfBwA2AAAANgAAAAAg4EVxsQAC LSWipwgARQAAKEdyQACABpytwKgAA8ZBj8MGHQG75bbbersCx49QBAAATZQAAAcq40D73AgAPgAA AD4AAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAADBHc0AAgAacpMCoAAPGQY/DBh4Bu+W5wOYAAAAAcAL8AMH0 AAACBAW0AQEEAgcq40BvFgkAPAAAADwAAAAAAi0loqcAIOBFcbEIAEUAACg2IUAALwb+/sZBj8PA qAADAbsGHbsCx4/lttt6UBH68FKWAAAAAAAAAAAHKuNAtBYJADYAAAA2AAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKn CABFAAAoR3QAAIAG3KvAqAADxkGPwwYdAbvlttt65bbbelAEAAAO9QAAByrjQI5fDAA+AAAAPgAA AAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARQAAMDYiQAAvBv71xkGPw8CoAAMBuwYeD0wNBuW5wOdwEvrwpqEAAAEB BAICBAW0ByrjQNBfDAA2AAAANgAAAAAg4EVxsQACLSWipwgARQAAKEd1QACABpyqwKgAA8ZBj8MG HgG75bnA5w9MDQdQEPwA0lUAAAcq40AnaQwAngAAAJ4AAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAJBHdkAA gAacQcCoAAPGQY/DBh4Bu+W5wOcPTA0HUBj8AGB5AAAWAwAAYwEAAF8DAEDjKgcH4OaVrGExYs7H uvm1WLTasoPHonRI0tc42zlbAAA4AAMABAAFAAYABwAIAAkACgALAAwADQAOAA8AEAARABIAEwAU ABUAFgAXABgAGQAaABsAHAAdAB4BAAcq40A6Gg8APAAAADwAAAAAAi0loqcAIOBFcbEIAEUAACg2 I0AALwb+/MZBj8PAqAADAbsGHg9MDQflucFPUBD68NL9AAAAAAAAAAAIKuNA2K0AADQEAAA0BAAA AAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFAAQmNiRAAC8G+v3GQY/DwKgAAwG7Bh4PTA0H5bnBT1AY+vCSVQAAFgMA ACoCAAAmAwBA4yoIM8rZsm45YiJxMOcZtFehhxCj/TnyR9+JDWvITgAAAwAWAwAC7wsAAusAAugA AuUwggLhMIICSqADAgECAgMAzjcwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQAwgcQxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYD VQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEdMBsGA1UEChMUVGhhd3RlIENv bnN1bHRpbmcgY2MxKDAmBgNVBAsTH0NlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gU2VydmljZXMgRGl2aXNpb24xGTAX BgNVBAMTEFRoYXd0ZSBTZXJ2ZXIgQ0ExJjAkBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWF3NlcnZlci1jZXJ0c0B0aGF3 dGUuY29tMB4XDTAwMDIyMjEwMzEyOVoXDTAxMDMwNzEwMzEyOVowfzELMAkGA1UEBhMCQVUxCjAI BgNVBAgTAS4xETAPBgNVBAcTCEJlbGdyYXZlMSEwHwYDVQQKExhXYXlmYXJlciBTeXN0ZW1zIFB0 eSBMdGQxFjAUBgNVBAsTDUZhcnJlbGwgTWNLYXkxFjAUBgNVBAMWDSouRm9ydGlmeS5uZXQwgZ8w DQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADgY0AMIGJAoGBAPKJ/XvitLduze6P/eXKoxptDJqsy0VLf0naqRMcdltj Hk+LHnnJqPA4H8q1iUa+8XDnil8OzTHyr6pVwYsqGsL1LnHx3W1DdpTlepT8AIVvpdVrGysCG2sS UMIOE28MMPK9/YJ5hNLIUt1C5cocdoRFVUhO9pIMjFYVYfemDnv5AgMBAAGjJTAjMBMGA1UdJQQM MAoGCCsGAQUFBwMBMAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQADgYEAChzjQ3LCGRlWXshz PopOcc1lKwJAGhwnFSpK223mIbP4BOKMyEl5NUMjupeKQCXXUtBivf7H/HnWAvC8AzGfZvlrstqg X5oDPMWr23etM9jjve5PLMJarLinZbzsmmMGO1oRrPQJDpjvbA5rYAJGZfmTxIfdERFVtvrBqHPJ ECAWAwAAzQwAAMkAQORZs3+TyFjwMoBXPIPzFW61XW1+RAIWneOBqBUJ7YbtPHeYbp4jTeF1OcM9 Z1tRhgT+IwvbXyw4oPB88qjXYKsAAwEAAQCAupawPTNzdj9r2XH4/qz+93RigMvBilNSowYNg87V MpQ2JNq8GEAqxR3JSMrdrbmXwwHRPpIteM8z0lKiUMDXdszAn1wLoHWyxW8SEXGDqdBDfCGfDEuU NuTfq+vhjiaG2JR4THYYVT5QHBVW85PWHH0Cus+t+1OoKhI7q+/yldQWAwAABA4AAAAIKuNAx7QA AD0AAAA9AAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABFAAAvR3dAAIAGnKHAqAADxkGPwwYeAbvlucFPD0wRBVAY +AKw2QAAFQMAAAICCggq40BMuAAANgAAADYAAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAChHeEAAgAacp8Co AAPGQY/DBh4Bu+W5wVYPTBEFUAQAAMn1AAAIKuNAPSgCAD4AAAA+AAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABF AAAwR3lAAIAGnJ7AqAADxkGPwwYfAbvlvK7xAAAAAHAC/ADT5QAAAgQFtAEBBAIIKuNAl3gCADwA AAA8AAAAAAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFAAAoNiVAAC8G/vrGQY/DwKgAAwG7Bh4PTBEF5bnBVlAR+vDO 9wAAAAAAAAAACCrjQN14AgA2AAAANgAAAAAg4EVxsQACLSWipwgARQAAKEd6AACABtylwKgAA8ZB j8MGHgG75bnBVuW5wVZQBAAAQzYAAAgq40BLAwQAPgAAAD4AAAAAAi0loqcAIOBFcbEIAEUAADA2 JkAALwb+8cZBj8PAqAADAbsGH3ZIXP3lvK7ycBL68AGfAAABAQQCAgQFtAgq40CYAwQANgAAADYA AAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAChHe0AAgAacpMCoAAPGQY/DBh8Bu+W8rvJ2SFz+UBD8AC1TAAAI KuNAouMEAJ4AAACeAAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABFAACQR3xAAIAGnDvAqAADxkGPwwYfAbvlvK7y dkhc/lAY/ADz8wAAFgMAAGMBAABfAwBA4yoIF9eyb9JP1zbkH6MlfTMrHXdcn4O1Boq+12KlBgAA OAADAAQABQAGAAcACAAJAAoACwAMAA0ADgAPABAAEQASABMAFAAVABYAFwAYABkAGgAbABwAHQAe AQAIKuNAl/gGADwAAAA8AAAAAAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFAAAoNidAAC8G/vjGQY/DwKgAAwG7Bh92 SFz+5byvWlAQ+vAt+wAAAAAAAAAACCrjQGIiCAA0BAAANAQAAAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARQAEJjYo QAAvBvr5xkGPw8CoAAMBuwYfdkhc/uW8r1pQGPrwmagAABYDAAAqAgAAJgMAQOMqCVjTU5PUJ+AG KjeKbqpf8ksIhbYJqYiQLxSjb9UAAAMAFgMAAu8LAALrAALoAALlMIIC4TCCAkqgAwIBAgIDAM43 MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAMIHEMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTEVMBMGA1UECBMMV2VzdGVybiBDYXBlMRIw EAYDVQQHEwlDYXBlIFRvd24xHTAbBgNVBAoTFFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIGNjMSgwJgYDVQQL Ex9DZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIFNlcnZpY2VzIERpdmlzaW9uMRkwFwYDVQQDExBUaGF3dGUgU2VydmVy IENBMSYwJAYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhdzZXJ2ZXItY2VydHNAdGhhd3RlLmNvbTAeFw0wMDAyMjIxMDMx MjlaFw0wMTAzMDcxMDMxMjlaMH8xCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVMQowCAYDVQQIEwEuMREwDwYDVQQHEwhC ZWxncmF2ZTEhMB8GA1UEChMYV2F5ZmFyZXIgU3lzdGVtcyBQdHkgTHRkMRYwFAYDVQQLEw1GYXJy ZWxsIE1jS2F5MRYwFAYDVQQDFg0qLkZvcnRpZnkubmV0MIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GNADCB iQKBgQDyif174rS3bs3uj/3lyqMabQyarMtFS39J2qkTHHZbYx5Pix55yajwOB/KtYlGvvFw54pf Ds0x8q+qVcGLKhrC9S5x8d1tQ3aU5XqU/ACFb6XVaxsrAhtrElDCDhNvDDDyvf2CeYTSyFLdQuXK HHaERVVITvaSDIxWFWH3pg57+QIDAQABoyUwIzATBgNVHSUEDDAKBggrBgEFBQcDATAMBgNVHRMB Af8EAjAAMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAA4GBAAoc40NywhkZVl7Icz6KTnHNZSsCQBocJxUqSttt5iGz +ATijMhJeTVDI7qXikAl11LQYr3+x/x51gLwvAMxn2b5a7LaoF+aAzzFq9t3rTPY473uTyzCWqy4 p2W87JpjBjtaEaz0CQ6Y72wOa2ACRmX5k8SH3RERVbb6wahzyRAgFgMAAM0MAADJAEDkWbN/k8hY 8DKAVzyD8xVutV1tfkQCFp3jgagVCe2G7Tx3mG6eI03hdTnDPWdbUYYE/iML218sOKDwfPKo12Cr AAMBAAEAgDtY4CdSYTxjGSzq6v7zGJGO94xVc2Yzx/FaohTWRgMMxgrmwBI/vJ3VaYb1ANhkG1tw 2eB1ykIfIMLLh8NXb9ctooYRIkC3d7bL5SvXOTF/EvPyrLet6tTz8KjexARCWPsgKgjXXhGlG4Mg aqvAcCxdzUKms3GaZRRyKTmJbSAyFgMAAAQOAAAACCrjQHEpCAA9AAAAPQAAAAAg4EVxsQACLSWi pwgARQAAL0d9QACABpybwKgAA8ZBj8MGHwG75byvWnZIYPxQGPgCC9cAABUDAAACAgoIKuNAQy0I ADYAAAA2AAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABFAAAoR35AAIAGnKHAqAADxkGPwwYfAbvlvK9hdkhg/FAE AAAk8wAACCrjQMLzCQA8AAAAPAAAAAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARQAAKDYpQAAvBv72xkGPw8CoAAMB uwYfdkhg/OW8r2FQEfrwKfUAAAAAAAAAAAgq40D98wkANgAAADYAAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUA AChHfwAAgAbcoMCoAAPGQY/DBh8Bu+W8r2HlvK9hUAQAAGcZAAA= ------=_Part_14_11208016.1088630676642 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="gmail.dump" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="gmail.dump" 1MOyoQIABAAAAAAAAAAAAP//AAABAAAAYSrjQDTKBgA+AAAAPgAAAAAg4EVxsQACLSWipwgARQAA MEekQACABuAdwKgAA9jvOWsGIQG75xGIIQAAAABwAvwAPQkAAAIEBbQBAQQCYSrjQAfeBwA8AAAA PAAAAAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARQAALLKlAADtBkgg2O85a8CoAAMBuwYhP3BBZecRiCJgEh/+rSwA AAIEBbQAAGEq40Bh3gcANgAAADYAAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAChHpUAAgAbgJMCoAAPY7zlr BiEBu+cRiCI/cEFmUBD8AOjmAABhKuNA9ukHAJ4AAACeAAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABFAACQR6ZA AIAG37vAqAAD2O85awYhAbvnEYgiP3BBZlAY/AAMPwAAFgMAAGMBAABfAwBA4yphVMCP6W07PGmW EGzKk8j3z6++vYJEy3s5piXOjgAAOAADAAQABQAGAAcACAAJAAoACwAMAA0ADgAPABAAEQASABMA FAAVABYAFwAYABkAGgAbABwAHQAeAQBhKuNAyBMJADwAAAA8AAAAAAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFEAAo 2KIAAC4G4RfY7zlrwKgAAwG7BiE/cEFm5xGIilAQeuRpmwAAAAAAAAAAYSrjQDwhCQA9AAAAPQAA AAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARRAAL9ijAAAuBuEP2O85a8CoAAMBuwYhP3BBZucRiIpQGHrkKocAABUD AAACAihhKuNAQCoJADYAAAA2AAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABFAAAoR6dAAIAG4CLAqAAD2O85awYh AbvnEYiKP3BBbVAR+/nofQAAYSrjQKctCQA8AAAAPAAAAAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARRAAKNikAAAu BuEV2O85a8CoAAMBuwYhP3BBbecRiIpQEXrkaZMAAAAAAAAAAGEq40DBLQkANgAAADYAAAAAIOBF cbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAChHqEAAgAbgIcCoAAPY7zlrBiEBu+cRiIs/cEFuUBD7+eh8AABhKuNAO4sK ADwAAAA8AAAAAAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFEAAo2LQAAC4G4QXY7zlrwKgAAwG7BiE/cEFu5xGIi1AQ euRpkgAAAAAAAAAAYSrjQGukCgA+AAAAPgAAAAAg4EVxsQACLSWipwgARQAAMEepQACABuAYwKgA A9jvOWsGIgG75xOE6QAAAABwAvwAQD4AAAIEBbQBAQQCYSrjQA/bCwA8AAAAPAAAAAACLSWipwAg 4EVxsQgARQAALBWqAADtBuUb2O85a8CoAAMBuwYi9L60a+cThOpgEh/+iAwAAAIEBbQAAGEq40Bb 2wsANgAAADYAAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAChHqkAAgAbgH8CoAAPY7zlrBiIBu+cThOr0vrRs UBD8AMPGAABhKuNAhOQLAJ4AAACeAAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABFAACQR6tAAIAG37bAqAAD2O85 awYiAbvnE4Tq9L60bFAY/AASEgAAFgMAAGMBAABfAwBA4yphuO0YIQi8YmemUNKPJrVAue888aTy i+wWBMTqxwAAOAADAAQABQAGAAcACAAJAAoACwAMAA0ADgAPABAAEQASABMAFAAVABYAFwAYABkA GgAbABwAHQAeAQBhKuNANlMNADwAAAA8AAAAAAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFEAAo2OcAAC4G4NLY7zlr wKgAAwG7BiL0vrRs5xOFUlAQeuREewAAAAAAAAAAYSrjQHVfDQA9AAAAPQAAAAACLSWipwAg4EVx sQgARRAAL9joAAAuBuDK2O85a8CoAAMBuwYi9L60bOcThVJQGHrkBWcAABUDAAACAihhKuNAWGgN ADYAAAA2AAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABFAAAoR6xAAIAG4B3AqAAD2O85awYiAbvnE4VS9L60c1AR +/nDXQAAYSrjQABsDQA8AAAAPAAAAAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARRAAKNjpAAAuBuDQ2O85a8CoAAMB uwYi9L60c+cThVJQEXrkRHMAAAAAAAAAAGEq40AfbA0ANgAAADYAAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUA AChHrUAAgAbgHMCoAAPY7zlrBiIBu+cThVP0vrR0UBD7+cNcAABhKuNAjesOAD4AAAA+AAAAACDg RXGxAAItJaKnCABFAAAwR65AAIAG4BPAqAAD2O85awYjAbvnFVhvAAAAAHAC/ABstQAAAgQFtAEB BAJhKuNAiDEPADwAAAA8AAAAAAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFEAAo2PgAAC4G4MHY7zlrwKgAAwG7BiL0 vrR05xOFU1AQeuREcgAAAAAAAAAAYirjQN3DAAA8AAAAPAAAAAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARQAALMCt AADtBjoY2O85a8CoAAMBuwYjCCmWR+cVWHBgEh/+vz0AAAIEBbQAAGIq40AlxAAANgAAADYAAAAA IOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAChHr0AAgAbgGsCoAAPY7zlrBiMBu+cVWHAIKZZIUBD8APr3AABiKuNA Rc0AAJ4AAACeAAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABFAACQR7BAAIAG37HAqAAD2O85awYjAbvnFVhwCCmW SFAY/ADc4gAAFgMAAGMBAABfAwBA4ypi8Xd/KLhHOoj3FNkqDyvk6DlRtJGuGNotVPc5GAAAOAAD AAQABQAGAAcACAAJAAoACwAMAA0ADgAPABAAEQASABMAFAAVABYAFwAYABkAGgAbABwAHQAeAQBi KuNAQokCADwAAAA8AAAAAAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFEAAo2RIAAC4G4KfY7zlrwKgAAwG7BiMIKZZI 5xVY2FAQeuR7rAAAAAAAAAAAYirjQKOVAgA9AAAAPQAAAAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARRAAL9kUAAAu BuCe2O85a8CoAAMBuwYjCCmWSOcVWNhQGHrkPJgAABUDAAACAihiKuNAFqMCADwAAAA8AAAAAAIt JaKnACDgRXGxCABFEAAo2RYAAC4G4KPY7zlrwKgAAwG7BiMIKZZP5xVY2FAReuR7pAAAAAAAAAAA YirjQFujAgA2AAAANgAAAAAg4EVxsQACLSWipwgARQAAKEexQACABuAYwKgAA9jvOWsGIwG75xVY 2AgpllBQEPv5+o4AAGIq40B4dQMANgAAADYAAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAChHskAAgAbgF8Co AAPY7zlrBiMBu+cVWNgIKZZQUBH7+fqNAABiKuNAiQ0FAD4AAAA+AAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABF AAAwR7NAAIAG4A7AqAAD2O85awYkAbvnFwKmAAAAAHAC/ADCewAAAgQFtAEBBAJiKuNAtd8FADwA AAA8AAAAAAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFEAAo2TsAAC4G4H7Y7zlrwKgAAwG7BiMIKZZQ5xVY2VAQeuR7 owAAAAAAAAAAYirjQPGMCAA8AAAAPAAAAAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARQAALPCyAADtBgoT2O85a8Co AAMBuwYkzRv/2ucXAqdgEh/+5n0AAAIEBbQAAGIq40A5jQgANgAAADYAAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcI AEUAAChHtEAAgAbgFcCoAAPY7zlrBiQBu+cXAqfNG//bUBD8ACI4AABiKuNA3ZYIAJ4AAACeAAAA ACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABFAACQR7VAAIAG36zAqAAD2O85awYkAbvnFwKnzRv/21AY/ADILQAAFgMA AGMBAABfAwBA4ypiIjaFL164tVSIWm8tZrhkyCjys6wHeBEbVdtXsAAAOAADAAQABQAGAAcACAAJ AAoACwAMAA0ADgAPABAAEQASABMAFAAVABYAFwAYABkAGgAbABwAHQAeAQBiKuNAx98KADwAAAA8 AAAAAAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFEAAo2WkAAC4G4FDY7zlrwKgAAwG7BiTNG//b5xcDD1AQeuSi7AAA AAAAAAAAYirjQA3tCgA9AAAAPQAAAAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARRAAL9lqAAAuBuBI2O85a8CoAAMB uwYkzRv/2+cXAw9QGHrkY9gAABUDAAACAihiKuNA+vYKADYAAAA2AAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABF AAAoR7ZAAIAG4BPAqAAD2O85awYkAbvnFwMPzRv/4lAR+/khzwAAYirjQH36CgA8AAAAPAAAAAAC LSWipwAg4EVxsQgARRAAKNlrAAAuBuBO2O85a8CoAAMBuwYkzRv/4ucXAw9QEXrkouQAAAAAAAAA AGIq40Cb+goANgAAADYAAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAChHt0AAgAbgEsCoAAPY7zlrBiQBu+cX AxDNG//jUBD7+SHOAABiKuNA9H8MAD4AAAA+AAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKnCABFAAAwR7hAAIAG4AnA qAAD2O85awYlAbvnGdqYAAAAAHAC/ADqhQAAAgQFtAEBBAJiKuNAsSsNADwAAAA8AAAAAAItJaKn ACDgRXGxCABFEAAo2XoAAC4G4D/Y7zlrwKgAAwG7BiTNG//j5xcDEFAQeuSi4wAAAAAAAAAAYirj QGv+DgA8AAAAPAAAAAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARQAALG26AADtBo0L2O85a8CoAAMBuwYljcGThucZ 2plgEh/+ujYAAAIEBbQAAGIq40Cq/g4ANgAAADYAAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAChHuUAAgAbg EMCoAAPY7zlrBiUBu+cZ2pmNwZOHUBD8APXwAABiKuNA7gcPAJ4AAACeAAAAACDgRXGxAAItJaKn CABFAACQR7pAAIAG36fAqAAD2O85awYlAbvnGdqZjcGTh1AY/ABttgAAFgMAAGMBAABfAwBA4ypi ZwQTnUUC0eFBa2KY2jJdL5P7oGpz3Tu0hrZ5zQAAOAADAAQABQAGAAcACAAJAAoACwAMAA0ADgAP ABAAEQASABMAFAAVABYAFwAYABkAGgAbABwAHQAeAQBjKuNAlTsBADwAAAA8AAAAAAItJaKnACDg RXGxCABFEAAo2ZwAAC4G4B3Y7zlrwKgAAwG7BiWNwZOH5xnbAVAQeuR2pQAAAAAAAAAAYyrjQHlH AQA9AAAAPQAAAAACLSWipwAg4EVxsQgARRAAL9mdAAAuBuAV2O85a8CoAAMBuwYljcGTh+cZ2wFQ GHrkN5EAABUDAAACAihjKuNAJFQBADwAAAA8AAAAAAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFEAAo2Z8AAC4G4BrY 7zlrwKgAAwG7BiWNwZOO5xnbAVAReuR2nQAAAAAAAAAAYyrjQG5UAQA2AAAANgAAAAAg4EVxsQAC LSWipwgARQAAKEe7QACABuAOwKgAA9jvOWsGJQG75xnbAY3Bk49QEPv59YcAAGMq40B0awIANgAA ADYAAAAAIOBFcbEAAi0loqcIAEUAAChHvEAAgAbgDcCoAAPY7zlrBiUBu+cZ2wGNwZOPUBH7+fWG AABjKuNAvJYEADwAAAA8AAAAAAItJaKnACDgRXGxCABFEAAo2cUAAC4G3/TY7zlrwKgAAwG7BiWN wZOP5xnbAlAQeuR2nAAAAAAAAAAA ------=_Part_14_11208016.1088630676642-- From gmail.com!knapjack Thu Jul 1 22:31:49 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]) by doppio; Thu Jul 1 22:31:49 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 62so460281rni for ; Thu, 01 Jul 2004 14:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.92.26 with SMTP id p26mr26550rnb; Thu, 01 Jul 2004 13:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c062040701132675f3a1da@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 13:26:07 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: Inferno List Subject: auth in gui.b? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So, the more I poke around Charon the more I learn (on at least a dozen fronts), but I'm still a newbie so I'd appreciate another pair of eyes. Am I crazy, or if I implement a dialog for the auth function in gui.b will basic authentication start working? -Jack From rog Thu Jul 1 22:54:21 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] auth in gui.b? Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:54:21 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <6e35c062040701132675f3a1da@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no indeed. it doesn't look like you're crazy at all. in fact this almost certainly is due to my laziness when converting charon to the new window manager. [... looks back through dump filesystem ...] no! i disclaim all responsibility. it happened when the gui was updated to use tk, and the code for the various stub functions (auth, alert, confirm) was never filled out. my laziness was in not completing the stuff that's commented out in getpopup() (the XXXX comment there is mine) it shouldn't be too difficult at all. in fact a hack to just get something going could probably be as simple as: auth(realm: string): (int, string, string) { user := prompt(realm + " username?", nil).t1; passwd := prompt("password?", nil).t1; return (0, user, passwd); } except... it doesn't work. putting a print into getauth reveals that getauth doesn't appear to be called at all. so... although that authentication dialog might be necessary for some websites, it doesn't look like it's the thing that's stopping gmail working. that doesn't, of course, mean that we shouldn't get around to fleshing out that code, but it does mean you're not there yet, unfortunately. i'm sorry that the charon code has to be your first inferno experience. the code is showing its age. good work anyway! cheers, rog. From gmail.com!knapjack Thu Jul 1 23:22:21 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]) by doppio; Thu Jul 1 23:22:21 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 62so462316rni for ; Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.92.26 with SMTP id p26mr30078rnb; Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c06204070115091c7a7c82@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 15:09:59 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] auth in gui.b? In-Reply-To: <1be729191e27726a84ecf244301567cc@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1be729191e27726a84ecf244301567cc@vitanuova.com> On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:54:21 +0100, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > i'm sorry that the charon code has to be your first inferno > experience. No apology necessary! Gmail doesn't use basic authentication (I think), but while I was trying various SSL servers I tried ours at work, which failed due to authentication, and it just led me down that particular rabbit hole. Plus, I feel like if I can track down a few of these I'm contributing in some minor way, so I don't fret as much over free time I waste over the keyboard. -Jack From forsyth Fri Jul 2 13:29:48 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 13:29:48 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] auth in gui.b? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>auth(realm: string): (int, string, string) >>{ >> user := prompt(realm + " username?", nil).t1; >> passwd := prompt("password?", nil).t1; >> return (0, user, passwd); >>} try return (1, user, passwd) From rog Fri Jul 2 13:34:56 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] auth in gui.b? Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 13:34:56 +0100 From: rog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > try return (1, user, passwd) true, that is what it should be, but it doesn't make any difference in this case, unfortunately. From cs.indiana.edu!geobrown Fri Jul 2 14:59:01 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu ([129.79.254.191]) by doppio; Fri Jul 2 14:59:01 BST 2004 Received: from cs.indiana.edu (bl-csci-54207.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.246.133]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUCS_2.61) with ESMTP id i62DrHLx003194 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 08:53:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40E568CD.5010700@cs.indiana.edu> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 08:53:17 -0500 From: Geoffrey Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: 9P, 9P2000, size issues Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We've been looking at 9P, 9P2000 for embedded file systems. I have a few comments and a question. One of the advantages of 9P was that there existed a minimum message size which the protocol could support (~128 bytes). 9P2000 has no such minimum. This makes embedding of 9P2000 a little awkward. Now for my question: inferno, when it negotiaties, won't accept a minimum packet size of less than 256 bytes; however, devmnt doesn't appear to enforce this size in a meaningful way. For example, when sending a walk rpc, devmnt happily converts the array of MAXWELEM names into a message, or sends nothing if the maximum message size is too small. In this case, the thread hangs -- no request was sent and hence no response comes back. Am I correct in this assessment ? I tested it in a slightly modified inferno environment (with message size of 128) by mounting an external file system and then doing an ls of an artificially long path within the mounted directory (ls /mountdir/abc...z/abc ..z/ ....) I think the correct response is to break the walk into smaller steps -- in effect to roll back to the walk1 behavior of 9P. This still leaves open the possibility of a single name being too long to fit. It would almost be better to negotiate MAXWELEM and a maximum string length when setting up a connection to enable 9P like behavior within 9P2000. By my count there are only 7 references to this magic constant in the code There is a similar problem with stat since name lengths are no longer bounded, but this is no worse than the problem with walking a single level. Perhaps an option to truncate names ? ? Seems a bit ugly. Geoffrey From york.ac.uk!as234 Fri Jul 2 15:05:00 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mail-gw1.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.246]) by doppio; Fri Jul 2 15:05:00 BST 2004 Received: from ebor.york.ac.uk (ebor.york.ac.uk [144.32.128.95]) by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i62DxIEZ010762 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 14:59:18 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 14:59:18 +0100 (BST) From: A Shah To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: getting emu to read stdin Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean Hi, I want to be able to access the host stdin that's passed into emu upon startup. i.e. I want to do something like this Linux/386/bin/emu -r /scratch/abhey/gridclient /dis/grep.dis that < NOTICE I'm using Linux as the host os. thanks in advance for any help Abhey From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Jul 2 21:10:08 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Jul 2 21:10:08 BST 2004 Message-ID: <7a6a6473b32d0ca3f0271352d665950b@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] auth in gui.b? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 21:02:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: <6e35c06204070115091c7a7c82@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the change does at least restore basic-authentication support; at least, i was able to use it to fiddle with settings at Demon. i'd be interested to know what the others expect. From /dev/null Sat Jul 3 10:37:15 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from shark.inbox.lv ([81.94.227.45]) by doppio; Sat Jul 3 10:37:15 BST 2004 Received: by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) id DBC63345D4; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:31:05 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:31:05 +0300 (EEST) From: MAILER-DAEMON@inbox.lv (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="DF70A34534.1088847065/shark.inbox.lv" Message-Id: <20040703093105.DBC63345D4@shark.inbox.lv> This is a MIME-encapsulated message. --DF70A34534.1088847065/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Notification Content-Type: text/plain This is the Postfix program at host shark.inbox.lv. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The Postfix program <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>: delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection timed out --DF70A34534.1088847065/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Delivery report Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; shark.inbox.lv X-Postfix-Queue-ID: DF70A34534 X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; inferno-list@vitanuova.com Arrival-Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:21:33 +0300 (EEST) Final-Recipient: rfc822; 9683860@sms.tele2.lv Action: failed Status: 4.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection timed out --DF70A34534.1088847065/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Undelivered Message Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from shark.inbox.lv (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF70A34534 for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:21:33 +0300 (EEST) Received: from brat.inbox.lv (unknown [10.0.1.40]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with SMTP for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:21:33 +0300 (EEST) Received: by brat.inbox.lv (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:21:21 +0300 Received: from timmy.inbox.lv ([unix socket]) by brat.inbox.lv (Cyrusv2.1.11) with LMTP; Fri, 02 Jul 2004 09:21:21 +0000 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Received: (qmail 9084 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 21:55:51 -0000 X-Junk-Mail: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO hum.inbox.lv) (10.0.1.37) (envelope from: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com) by timmy.inbox.lv with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 21:55:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 3999 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 00:55:50 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO inbox.lv) (10.0.1.7) by hum.inbox.lv with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 00:55:50 +0300 X-Inbox.lv-Score: 0 (inbox.lv) Received: from [62.254.170.97] by inbox.lv (Inbox.lv Worldwide2) with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 21:55:51 -0000 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:54:21 +0100 From: rog@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <6e35c062040701132675f3a1da@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [inferno-list] auth in gui.b? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk no indeed. it doesn't look like you're crazy at all. in fact this almost certainly is due to my laziness when converting charon to the new window manager. [... looks back through dump filesystem ...] no! i disclaim all responsibility. it happened when the gui was updated to use tk, and the code for the various stub functions (auth, alert, confirm) was never filled out. my laziness was in not completing the stuff that's commented out in getpopup() (the XXXX comment there is mine) it shouldn't be too difficult at all. in fact a hack to just get something going could probably be as simple as: auth(realm: string): (int, string, string) { user := prompt(realm + " username?", nil).t1; passwd := prompt("password?", nil).t1; return (0, user, passwd); } except... it doesn't work. putting a print into getauth reveals that getauth doesn't appear to be called at all. so... although that authentication dialog might be necessary for some websites, it doesn't look like it's the thing that's stopping gmail working. that doesn't, of course, mean that we shouldn't get around to fleshing out that code, but it does mean you're not there yet, unfortunately. i'm sorry that the charon code has to be your first inferno experience. the code is showing its age. good work anyway! cheers, rog. --DF70A34534.1088847065/shark.inbox.lv-- From /dev/null Sat Jul 3 10:37:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from shark.inbox.lv ([81.94.227.45]) by doppio; Sat Jul 3 10:37:20 BST 2004 Received: by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) id E78EB36811; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:31:12 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:31:12 +0300 (EEST) From: MAILER-DAEMON@inbox.lv (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="BE7A53446A.1088847072/shark.inbox.lv" Message-Id: <20040703093112.E78EB36811@shark.inbox.lv> This is a MIME-encapsulated message. --BE7A53446A.1088847072/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Notification Content-Type: text/plain This is the Postfix program at host shark.inbox.lv. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The Postfix program <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>: delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection timed out --BE7A53446A.1088847072/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Delivery report Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; shark.inbox.lv X-Postfix-Queue-ID: BE7A53446A X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; inferno-list@vitanuova.com Arrival-Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:19:03 +0300 (EEST) Final-Recipient: rfc822; 9683860@sms.tele2.lv Action: failed Status: 4.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection timed out --BE7A53446A.1088847072/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Undelivered Message Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from shark.inbox.lv (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE7A53446A for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:19:03 +0300 (EEST) Received: from brat.inbox.lv (unknown [10.0.1.40]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with SMTP for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:19:03 +0300 (EEST) Received: by brat.inbox.lv (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:18:51 +0300 Received: from timmy.inbox.lv ([unix socket]) by brat.inbox.lv (Cyrusv2.1.11) with LMTP; Fri, 02 Jul 2004 09:18:51 +0000 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Received: (qmail 14392 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 21:37:13 -0000 X-Junk-Mail: 2 Received: from unknown (HELO hum.inbox.lv) (10.0.1.37) (envelope from: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com) by timmy.inbox.lv with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 21:37:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 1110 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 00:37:11 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO inbox.lv) (10.0.1.7) by hum.inbox.lv with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 00:37:11 +0300 X-Inbox.lv-Score: 0 (inbox.lv) Received: from [62.254.170.97] by inbox.lv (Inbox.lv Worldwide2) with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 21:37:12 -0000 Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]) by doppio; Thu Jul 1 22:31:49 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 62so460281rni for ; Thu, 01 Jul 2004 14:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.92.26 with SMTP id p26mr26550rnb; Thu, 01 Jul 2004 13:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c062040701132675f3a1da@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 13:26:07 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: Inferno List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [inferno-list] auth in gui.b? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk So, the more I poke around Charon the more I learn (on at least a dozen fronts), but I'm still a newbie so I'd appreciate another pair of eyes. Am I crazy, or if I implement a dialog for the auth function in gui.b will basic authentication start working? -Jack --BE7A53446A.1088847072/shark.inbox.lv-- From /dev/null Sat Jul 3 10:37:41 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from shark.inbox.lv ([81.94.227.45]) by doppio; Sat Jul 3 10:37:41 BST 2004 Received: by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) id 096FD34015; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:31:37 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:31:37 +0300 (EEST) From: MAILER-DAEMON@inbox.lv (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="9915F34526.1088847097/shark.inbox.lv" Message-Id: <20040703093137.096FD34015@shark.inbox.lv> This is a MIME-encapsulated message. --9915F34526.1088847097/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Notification Content-Type: text/plain This is the Postfix program at host shark.inbox.lv. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The Postfix program <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>: delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection timed out --9915F34526.1088847097/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Delivery report Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; shark.inbox.lv X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 9915F34526 X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; inferno-list@vitanuova.com Arrival-Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:25:13 +0300 (EEST) Final-Recipient: rfc822; 9683860@sms.tele2.lv Action: failed Status: 4.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection timed out --9915F34526.1088847097/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Undelivered Message Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from shark.inbox.lv (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9915F34526 for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:25:13 +0300 (EEST) Received: from brat.inbox.lv (unknown [10.0.1.40]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with SMTP for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:25:13 +0300 (EEST) Received: by brat.inbox.lv (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:25:01 +0300 Received: from timmy.inbox.lv ([unix socket]) by brat.inbox.lv (Cyrusv2.1.11) with LMTP; Fri, 02 Jul 2004 09:25:01 +0000 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Received: (qmail 30888 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2004 22:27:37 -0000 X-Junk-Mail: 2 Received: from unknown (HELO hum.inbox.lv) (10.0.1.37) (envelope from: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com) by timmy.inbox.lv with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 22:27:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 10169 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 01:27:36 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO inbox.lv) (10.0.1.7) by hum.inbox.lv with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 01:27:36 +0300 X-Inbox.lv-Score: 0 (inbox.lv) Received: from [62.254.170.97] by inbox.lv (Inbox.lv Worldwide2) with SMTP; 1 Jul 2004 22:27:36 -0000 Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]) by doppio; Thu Jul 1 23:22:21 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 62so462316rni for ; Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.92.26 with SMTP id p26mr30078rnb; Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c06204070115091c7a7c82@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 15:09:59 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <1be729191e27726a84ecf244301567cc@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1be729191e27726a84ecf244301567cc@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] auth in gui.b? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:54:21 +0100, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > i'm sorry that the charon code has to be your first inferno > experience. No apology necessary! Gmail doesn't use basic authentication (I think), but while I was trying various SSL servers I tried ours at work, which failed due to authentication, and it just led me down that particular rabbit hole. Plus, I feel like if I can track down a few of these I'm contributing in some minor way, so I don't fret as much over free time I waste over the keyboard. -Jack --9915F34526.1088847097/shark.inbox.lv-- From /dev/null Sat Jul 3 14:06:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from shark.inbox.lv ([81.94.227.45]) by doppio; Sat Jul 3 14:06:45 BST 2004 Received: by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) id 086173481D; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 16:00:57 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 16:00:57 +0300 (EEST) From: MAILER-DAEMON@inbox.lv (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="92E91350F5.1088859657/shark.inbox.lv" Message-Id: <20040703130057.086173481D@shark.inbox.lv> This is a MIME-encapsulated message. --92E91350F5.1088859657/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Notification Content-Type: text/plain This is the Postfix program at host shark.inbox.lv. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The Postfix program <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>: delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection timed out --92E91350F5.1088859657/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Delivery report Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; shark.inbox.lv X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 92E91350F5 X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; inferno-list@vitanuova.com Arrival-Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 15:39:31 +0300 (EEST) Final-Recipient: rfc822; 9683860@sms.tele2.lv Action: failed Status: 4.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection timed out --92E91350F5.1088859657/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Undelivered Message Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from shark.inbox.lv (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92E91350F5 for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 15:39:31 +0300 (EEST) Received: from brat.inbox.lv (unknown [10.0.1.40]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with SMTP for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 15:39:31 +0300 (EEST) Received: by brat.inbox.lv (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 2 Jul 2004 15:39:18 +0300 Received: from timmy.inbox.lv ([unix socket]) by brat.inbox.lv (Cyrusv2.1.11) with LMTP; Fri, 02 Jul 2004 12:39:18 +0000 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Received: (qmail 18136 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 12:38:59 -0000 X-Junk-Mail: 2 Received: from unknown (HELO hum.inbox.lv) (10.0.1.37) (envelope from: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com) by timmy.inbox.lv with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 12:38:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 19172 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 15:38:59 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO inbox.lv) (10.0.1.7) by hum.inbox.lv with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 15:38:59 +0300 X-Inbox.lv-Score: 0 (inbox.lv) Received: from [62.254.170.97] by inbox.lv (Inbox.lv Worldwide2) with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 12:38:33 -0000 Message-ID: <2f1a1f3321dcbb0a552695c5dedb4c8f@vitanuova.com> From: C H Forsyth Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 13:29:48 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [inferno-list] auth in gui.b? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk >>auth(realm: string): (int, string, string) >>{ >> user := prompt(realm + " username?", nil).t1; >> passwd := prompt("password?", nil).t1; >> return (0, user, passwd); >>} try return (1, user, passwd) --92E91350F5.1088859657/shark.inbox.lv-- From /dev/null Sat Jul 3 14:06:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from shark.inbox.lv ([81.94.227.45]) by doppio; Sat Jul 3 14:06:45 BST 2004 Received: by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) id 4DBE3347DF; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 16:00:49 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 16:00:49 +0300 (EEST) From: MAILER-DAEMON@inbox.lv (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="8961F3518B.1088859649/shark.inbox.lv" Message-Id: <20040703130049.4DBE3347DF@shark.inbox.lv> This is a MIME-encapsulated message. --8961F3518B.1088859649/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Notification Content-Type: text/plain This is the Postfix program at host shark.inbox.lv. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The Postfix program <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>: delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection timed out --8961F3518B.1088859649/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Delivery report Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; shark.inbox.lv X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 8961F3518B X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; inferno-list@vitanuova.com Arrival-Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 15:49:28 +0300 (EEST) Final-Recipient: rfc822; 9683860@sms.tele2.lv Action: failed Status: 4.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection timed out --8961F3518B.1088859649/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Undelivered Message Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from shark.inbox.lv (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8961F3518B for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 15:49:28 +0300 (EEST) Received: from brat.inbox.lv (unknown [10.0.1.40]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with SMTP for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 15:49:28 +0300 (EEST) Received: by brat.inbox.lv (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 2 Jul 2004 15:49:15 +0300 Received: from timmy.inbox.lv ([unix socket]) by brat.inbox.lv (Cyrusv2.1.11) with LMTP; Fri, 02 Jul 2004 12:49:15 +0000 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Received: (qmail 28721 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 12:47:09 -0000 X-Junk-Mail: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO hum.inbox.lv) (10.0.1.37) (envelope from: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com) by timmy.inbox.lv with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 12:47:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 16751 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 15:47:10 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO inbox.lv) (10.0.1.7) by hum.inbox.lv with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 15:47:10 +0300 X-Inbox.lv-Score: 0 (inbox.lv) Received: from [62.254.170.97] by inbox.lv (Inbox.lv Worldwide2) with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 12:46:46 -0000 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 13:34:56 +0100 From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [inferno-list] auth in gui.b? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk > try return (1, user, passwd) true, that is what it should be, but it doesn't make any difference in this case, unfortunately. --8961F3518B.1088859649/shark.inbox.lv-- From /dev/null Sat Jul 3 15:36:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from shark.inbox.lv ([81.94.227.45]) by doppio; Sat Jul 3 15:36:36 BST 2004 Received: by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) id D4CB73495E; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 17:30:35 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 17:30:35 +0300 (EEST) From: MAILER-DAEMON@inbox.lv (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="B89993543E.1088865035/shark.inbox.lv" Message-Id: <20040703143035.D4CB73495E@shark.inbox.lv> This is a MIME-encapsulated message. --B89993543E.1088865035/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Notification Content-Type: text/plain This is the Postfix program at host shark.inbox.lv. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The Postfix program <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>: delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection timed out --B89993543E.1088865035/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Delivery report Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; shark.inbox.lv X-Postfix-Queue-ID: B89993543E X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; inferno-list@vitanuova.com Arrival-Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 17:10:09 +0300 (EEST) Final-Recipient: rfc822; 9683860@sms.tele2.lv Action: failed Status: 4.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection timed out --B89993543E.1088865035/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Undelivered Message Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from shark.inbox.lv (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with ESMTP id B89993543E for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 17:10:09 +0300 (EEST) Received: from brat.inbox.lv (unknown [10.0.1.40]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with SMTP for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 17:10:09 +0300 (EEST) Received: by brat.inbox.lv (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 2 Jul 2004 17:09:56 +0300 Received: from timmy.inbox.lv ([unix socket]) by brat.inbox.lv (Cyrusv2.1.11) with LMTP; Fri, 02 Jul 2004 14:09:56 +0000 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Received: (qmail 12854 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 14:09:39 -0000 X-Junk-Mail: 2 Received: from unknown (HELO hum.inbox.lv) (10.0.1.37) (envelope from: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com) by timmy.inbox.lv with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 14:09:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 3703 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 17:09:39 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO inbox.lv) (10.0.1.7) by hum.inbox.lv with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 17:09:39 +0300 X-Inbox.lv-Score: 0 (inbox.lv) Received: from [62.254.170.97] by inbox.lv (Inbox.lv Worldwide2) with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 14:9:13 -0000 Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu ([129.79.254.191]) by doppio; Fri Jul 2 14:59:01 BST 2004 Received: from cs.indiana.edu (bl-csci-54207.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.246.133]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUCS_2.61) with ESMTP id i62DrHLx003194 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 08:53:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40E568CD.5010700@cs.indiana.edu> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 08:53:17 -0500 From: Geoffrey Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [inferno-list] 9P, 9P2000, size issues Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk We've been looking at 9P, 9P2000 for embedded file systems. I have a few comments and a question. One of the advantages of 9P was that there existed a minimum message size which the protocol could support (~128 bytes). 9P2000 has no such minimum. This makes embedding of 9P2000 a little awkward. Now for my question: inferno, when it negotiaties, won't accept a minimum packet size of less than 256 bytes; however, devmnt doesn't appear to enforce this size in a meaningful way. For example, when sending a walk rpc, devmnt happily converts the array of MAXWELEM names into a message, or sends nothing if the maximum message size is too small. In this case, the thread hangs -- no request was sent and hence no response comes back. Am I correct in this assessment ? I tested it in a slightly modified inferno environment (with message size of 128) by mounting an external file system and then doing an ls of an artificially long path within the mounted directory (ls /mountdir/abc...z/abc ..z/ ....) I think the correct response is to break the walk into smaller steps -- in effect to roll back to the walk1 behavior of 9P. This still leaves open the possibility of a single name being too long to fit. It would almost be better to negotiate MAXWELEM and a maximum string length when setting up a connection to enable 9P like behavior within 9P2000. By my count there are only 7 references to this magic constant in the code There is a similar problem with stat since name lengths are no longer bounded, but this is no worse than the problem with walking a single level. Perhaps an option to truncate names ? ? Seems a bit ugly. Geoffrey --B89993543E.1088865035/shark.inbox.lv-- From /dev/null Sat Jul 3 15:36:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from shark.inbox.lv ([81.94.227.45]) by doppio; Sat Jul 3 15:36:36 BST 2004 Received: by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) id DBC0B349EA; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 17:30:45 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 17:30:45 +0300 (EEST) From: MAILER-DAEMON@inbox.lv (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="CD5E9A3D27.1088865045/shark.inbox.lv" Message-Id: <20040703143045.DBC0B349EA@shark.inbox.lv> This is a MIME-encapsulated message. --CD5E9A3D27.1088865045/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Notification Content-Type: text/plain This is the Postfix program at host shark.inbox.lv. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The Postfix program <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>: delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection timed out --CD5E9A3D27.1088865045/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Delivery report Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; shark.inbox.lv X-Postfix-Queue-ID: CD5E9A3D27 X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; inferno-list@vitanuova.com Arrival-Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 17:22:26 +0300 (EEST) Final-Recipient: rfc822; 9683860@sms.tele2.lv Action: failed Status: 4.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection timed out --CD5E9A3D27.1088865045/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Undelivered Message Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from shark.inbox.lv (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD5E9A3D27 for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 17:22:26 +0300 (EEST) Received: from brat.inbox.lv (unknown [10.0.1.40]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with SMTP for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 17:22:26 +0300 (EEST) Received: by brat.inbox.lv (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 2 Jul 2004 17:22:13 +0300 Received: from timmy.inbox.lv ([unix socket]) by brat.inbox.lv (Cyrusv2.1.11) with LMTP; Fri, 02 Jul 2004 14:22:13 +0000 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Received: (qmail 14045 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 14:21:56 -0000 X-Junk-Mail: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO hum.inbox.lv) (10.0.1.37) (envelope from: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com) by timmy.inbox.lv with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 14:21:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 24796 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 17:21:57 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO inbox.lv) (10.0.1.7) by hum.inbox.lv with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 17:21:57 +0300 X-Inbox.lv-Score: 0 (inbox.lv) Received: from [62.254.170.97] by inbox.lv (Inbox.lv Worldwide2) with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 14:21:43 -0000 Received: from mail-gw1.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.246]) by doppio; Fri Jul 2 15:05:00 BST 2004 Received: from ebor.york.ac.uk (ebor.york.ac.uk [144.32.128.95]) by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i62DxIEZ010762 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 14:59:18 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 14:59:18 +0100 (BST) From: A Shah To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean Subject: [inferno-list] getting emu to read stdin Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Hi, I want to be able to access the host stdin that's passed into emu upon startup. i.e. I want to do something like this Linux/386/bin/emu -r /scratch/abhey/gridclient /dis/grep.dis that < NOTICE I'm using Linux as the host os. thanks in advance for any help Abhey --CD5E9A3D27.1088865045/shark.inbox.lv-- From /dev/null Sat Jul 3 22:05:54 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from shark.inbox.lv ([81.94.227.45]) by doppio; Sat Jul 3 22:05:54 BST 2004 Received: by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) id 2FA60351ED; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 23:32:00 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 23:32:00 +0300 (EEST) From: MAILER-DAEMON@inbox.lv (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="0CF7135E8B.1088886720/shark.inbox.lv" Message-Id: <20040703203200.2FA60351ED@shark.inbox.lv> This is a MIME-encapsulated message. --0CF7135E8B.1088886720/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Notification Content-Type: text/plain This is the Postfix program at host shark.inbox.lv. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The Postfix program <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>: delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection refused --0CF7135E8B.1088886720/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Delivery report Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; shark.inbox.lv X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 0CF7135E8B X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; inferno-list@vitanuova.com Arrival-Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 23:16:34 +0300 (EEST) Final-Recipient: rfc822; 9683860@sms.tele2.lv Action: failed Status: 4.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: connect to sms.tele2.lv[159.148.119.134]: Connection refused --0CF7135E8B.1088886720/shark.inbox.lv Content-Description: Undelivered Message Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from shark.inbox.lv (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CF7135E8B for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 23:16:34 +0300 (EEST) Received: from brat.inbox.lv (unknown [10.0.1.40]) by shark.inbox.lv (Postfix) with SMTP for <9683860@sms.tele2.lv>; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 23:16:34 +0300 (EEST) Received: by brat.inbox.lv (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 2 Jul 2004 23:16:15 +0300 Received: from timmy.inbox.lv ([unix socket]) by brat.inbox.lv (Cyrusv2.1.11) with LMTP; Fri, 02 Jul 2004 20:16:15 +0000 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Received: (qmail 11067 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 20:16:09 -0000 X-Junk-Mail: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO hum.inbox.lv) (10.0.1.37) (envelope from: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com) by timmy.inbox.lv with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 20:16:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 21464 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 23:16:11 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO inbox.lv) (10.0.1.7) by hum.inbox.lv with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 23:16:11 +0300 X-Inbox.lv-Score: 0 (inbox.lv) Received: from [62.254.170.97] by inbox.lv (Inbox.lv Worldwide2) with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 20:16:9 -0000 Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Jul 2 21:10:08 BST 2004 Message-ID: <7a6a6473b32d0ca3f0271352d665950b@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 21:02:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: <6e35c06204070115091c7a7c82@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [inferno-list] auth in gui.b? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk the change does at least restore basic-authentication support; at least, i was able to use it to fiddle with settings at Demon. i'd be interested to know what the others expect. --0CF7135E8B.1088886720/shark.inbox.lv-- From gmail.com!knapjack Wed Jul 7 16:49:09 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]) by doppio; Wed Jul 7 16:49:09 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d5so128433rng for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 08:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.71.16 with SMTP id t16mr96236rna; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 08:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c06204070708431f0ba7ec@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 08:43:25 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: Inferno List Subject: mount and PAT? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm testing access to an auth/file server from outside the network. Both the client and the server reside on private networks using port address translation to get to the Internet. getauthinfo works fine, but mount hangs indefinitely. I have ports 2202 and 6666-6675 forwarded to the server on the server's network. Any suggestions? -Jack From forsyth Wed Jul 7 17:08:54 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] mount and PAT? From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 17:08:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: <6e35c06204070708431f0ba7ec@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ofqraeqwrvdkuzyxtkjqdqesye" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ofqraeqwrvdkuzyxtkjqdqesye Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit could you please show the commands you use both sides? --upas-ofqraeqwrvdkuzyxtkjqdqesye Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]) by doppio; Wed Jul 7 16:49:09 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d5so128433rng for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 08:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.71.16 with SMTP id t16mr96236rna; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 08:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c06204070708431f0ba7ec@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 08:43:25 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: Inferno List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [inferno-list] mount and PAT? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk I'm testing access to an auth/file server from outside the network. Both the client and the server reside on private networks using port address translation to get to the Internet. getauthinfo works fine, but mount hangs indefinitely. I have ports 2202 and 6666-6675 forwarded to the server on the server's network. Any suggestions? -Jack --upas-ofqraeqwrvdkuzyxtkjqdqesye-- From forsyth Wed Jul 7 17:30:01 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] 9P, 9P2000, size issues From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 17:30:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: <40E568CD.5010700@cs.indiana.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for tiny devices, including some we've used, it probably would make sense to reduce the minimum message size limit from 256 in devmnt. in fact, export uses 64; i know i set that one, but i think they ought to be the same. styxserver's matches devmnt's. it might be a case where i had a reason at the time for the difference, but since i now can't remember it, it can't have been a good one. >>[devmnt hangs if a walk message exceeds the message size limit] >>Am I correct in this assessment ? if so, i'll mend it. it should at least diagnose it and return. i think i took the view that one would tune the name space presented by a small device (keeping the names short and the tree shallow) so that it would fit in the desired message size, but perhaps that doesn't suit every context or use for such a device. (on the Lego brick we also added a simple protocol on top of the IR transport that collapsed runs of zero to reduce the number of bytes exchanged.) directory reads can control the amount of data returned. i did expect that a ls /mnt/lego/well/outside/the/namespace/ofdevice might return `message too long' rather than `name not found', again on the grounds that an application working to a published name space for a given device wouldn't be messing about like that, (or to put it another way, no reasonable use would require such arbitrary access), and thus no unexpectedly long names would be produced, but perhaps that too was naive. as an example, i suppose i might have a smartcard with my keyring on it, mounted on $home/keyring with an application that could at least attempt to search for long names on it. From gmail.com!knapjack Wed Jul 7 18:41:01 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.207]) by doppio; Wed Jul 7 18:41:01 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d19so87012rnf for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 10:35:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.181.19 with SMTP id d19mr122641rnf; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 10:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c0620407071008427c1d42@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 10:08:26 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] mount and PAT? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 17:08:54 +0100, C H Forsyth wrote: > could you please show the commands you use both sides? Sure. Basically I followed the installation instructions. I'm running from memory, so forgive me. The signer & fileserver are both on a Plan 9 box. signer's emu: echo >> /lib/ndb/local echo 'ip=192.168.0.4 sys=uqbar' >>/lib/ndb/local cp /locale/US_Pacific /locale/timezone ndb/cs createsignerkey uqbar cd /usr cp -r inferno someuser auth/changeuser someuser svc/auth fileserver's emu: ndb/cs getauthinfo default svc/net Client is on Windows XP: echo >> /lib/ndb/local echo 'ip=X.X.X.X sys=uqbar' >>/lib/ndb/local cp /locale/US_Pacific /locale/timezone ndb/cs getauthinfo tcp!uqbar mount uqbar /n/remote The client works fine when it's on the same network as the server (and the ndb/local IP matches), but doesn't seem to remotely, which is why I started pointing the finger at the port address translation. -Jack From cs.indiana.edu!geobrown Wed Jul 7 19:41:23 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu ([129.79.254.191]) by doppio; Wed Jul 7 19:41:23 BST 2004 Received: from cs.indiana.edu (bl-csci-54207.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.246.133]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUCS_2.61) with ESMTP id i67IZdYJ003351 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2004 13:35:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40EC4264.3030302@cs.indiana.edu> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 13:35:16 -0500 From: Geoffrey Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] 9P, 9P2000, size issues References: <3922907abb8dfe68e2a705a45f540d57@vitanuova.com> In-Reply-To: <3922907abb8dfe68e2a705a45f540d57@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000105090100020703080904" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000105090100020703080904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can you really do a directory read of less than a full stat structure ? I thought the minimum had to be large enough to hold the information about a single file in the directory. Geoffrey C H Forsyth wrote: >for tiny devices, including some we've used, it probably would make >sense to reduce the minimum message size limit from 256 in devmnt. >in fact, export uses 64; i know i set that one, but i think they ought to be the same. >styxserver's matches devmnt's. >it might be a case where i had a reason at the time for the difference, but since i now can't >remember it, it can't have been a good one. > > > >>>[devmnt hangs if a walk message exceeds the message size limit] >>>Am I correct in this assessment ? >>> >>> > >if so, i'll mend it. it should at least diagnose it and return. > >i think i took the view that one would tune the name space presented >by a small device (keeping the names short and the tree shallow) so that >it would fit in the desired message size, but perhaps that doesn't suit every >context or use for such a device. (on the Lego brick we also added a simple >protocol on top of the IR transport that collapsed runs of zero to reduce the >number of bytes exchanged.) directory reads can control the >amount of data returned. i did expect that a ls /mnt/lego/well/outside/the/namespace/ofdevice >might return `message too long' rather than `name not found', again on the grounds >that an application working to a published name space for a given device wouldn't >be messing about like that, (or to put it another way, no reasonable use would >require such arbitrary access), and thus no unexpectedly long names >would be produced, but perhaps that too was naive. as an example, i suppose >i might have a smartcard with my keyring on it, mounted on $home/keyring >with an application that could at least attempt to search for long names on it. > > --------------000105090100020703080904 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can you really do a directory read of less than a full stat structure ?  I thought the minimum had to be large enough
to hold the information about a single file in the directory.

Geoffrey

C H Forsyth wrote:
for tiny devices, including some we've used, it probably would make
sense to reduce the minimum message size limit from 256 in devmnt.
in fact, export uses 64; i know i set that one, but i think they ought to be the same.
styxserver's matches devmnt's.
it might be a case where i had a reason at the time for the difference, but since i now can't
remember it, it can't have been a good one.

  
[devmnt hangs if a walk message exceeds the message size limit]
Am I correct in this assessment ?
      

if so, i'll mend it.  it should at least diagnose it and return.

i think i took the view that one would tune the name space presented
by a small device (keeping the names short and the tree shallow) so that
it would fit in the desired message size, but perhaps that doesn't suit every
context or use for such a device.  (on the Lego brick we also added a simple
protocol on top of the IR transport that collapsed runs of zero to reduce the
number of bytes exchanged.)   directory reads can control the
amount of data returned.  i did expect that a ls /mnt/lego/well/outside/the/namespace/ofdevice
might return `message too long' rather than `name not found', again on the grounds
that an application working to a published name space for a given device wouldn't
be messing about like that, (or to put it another way, no reasonable use would
require such arbitrary access), and thus no unexpectedly long names
would be produced, but perhaps that too was naive.   as an example, i suppose
i might have a smartcard with my keyring on it, mounted on $home/keyring
with an application that could at least attempt to search for long names on it.
--------------000105090100020703080904-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed Jul 7 20:21:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed Jul 7 20:21:28 BST 2004 Message-ID: <76d9c9b96b9c9f5210ff0700d629504d@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] 9P, 9P2000, size issues From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 20:15:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: <40EC4264.3030302@cs.indiana.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xexokcazyyuzxrqeemcmqajefc" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xexokcazyyuzxrqeemcmqajefc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>directory reads can control the >>amount of data returned. >Can you really do a directory read of less than a full stat structure ? no, you're right; i meant by the earlier remark that entries can be doled out one by one even if the caller asked for much more. having totted it up now, i suppose even 64 bytes would not be enough for one-element directory reads, because of the surrounding message bits, even if the names were tiny! --upas-xexokcazyyuzxrqeemcmqajefc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Wed Jul 7 19:44:26 BST 2004 Received: from moose.cs.indiana.edu ([129.79.254.191]) by doppio; Wed Jul 7 19:41:23 BST 2004 Received: from cs.indiana.edu (bl-csci-54207.cs.indiana.edu [129.79.246.133]) by moose.cs.indiana.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/IUCS_2.61) with ESMTP id i67IZdYJ003351 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2004 13:35:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40EC4264.3030302@cs.indiana.edu> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 13:35:16 -0500 From: Geoffrey Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: <3922907abb8dfe68e2a705a45f540d57@vitanuova.com> In-Reply-To: <3922907abb8dfe68e2a705a45f540d57@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000105090100020703080904" Subject: Re: [inferno-list] 9P, 9P2000, size issues Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000105090100020703080904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can you really do a directory read of less than a full stat structure ? I thought the minimum had to be large enough to hold the information about a single file in the directory. Geoffrey C H Forsyth wrote: >for tiny devices, including some we've used, it probably would make >sense to reduce the minimum message size limit from 256 in devmnt. >in fact, export uses 64; i know i set that one, but i think they ought to be the same. >styxserver's matches devmnt's. >it might be a case where i had a reason at the time for the difference, but since i now can't >remember it, it can't have been a good one. > > > >>>[devmnt hangs if a walk message exceeds the message size limit] >>>Am I correct in this assessment ? >>> >>> > >if so, i'll mend it. it should at least diagnose it and return. > >i think i took the view that one would tune the name space presented >by a small device (keeping the names short and the tree shallow) so that >it would fit in the desired message size, but perhaps that doesn't suit every >context or use for such a device. (on the Lego brick we also added a simple >protocol on top of the IR transport that collapsed runs of zero to reduce the >number of bytes exchanged.) directory reads can control the >amount of data returned. i did expect that a ls /mnt/lego/well/outside/the/namespace/ofdevice >might return `message too long' rather than `name not found', again on the grounds >that an application working to a published name space for a given device wouldn't >be messing about like that, (or to put it another way, no reasonable use would >require such arbitrary access), and thus no unexpectedly long names >would be produced, but perhaps that too was naive. as an example, i suppose >i might have a smartcard with my keyring on it, mounted on $home/keyring >with an application that could at least attempt to search for long names on it. > > --------------000105090100020703080904 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can you really do a directory read of less than a full stat structure ?  I thought the minimum had to be large enough
to hold the information about a single file in the directory.

Geoffrey

C H Forsyth wrote:
for tiny devices, including some we've used, it probably would make
sense to reduce the minimum message size limit from 256 in devmnt.
in fact, export uses 64; i know i set that one, but i think they ought to be the same.
styxserver's matches devmnt's.
it might be a case where i had a reason at the time for the difference, but since i now can't
remember it, it can't have been a good one.

  
[devmnt hangs if a walk message exceeds the message size limit]
Am I correct in this assessment ?
      

if so, i'll mend it.  it should at least diagnose it and return.

i think i took the view that one would tune the name space presented
by a small device (keeping the names short and the tree shallow) so that
it would fit in the desired message size, but perhaps that doesn't suit every
context or use for such a device.  (on the Lego brick we also added a simple
protocol on top of the IR transport that collapsed runs of zero to reduce the
number of bytes exchanged.)   directory reads can control the
amount of data returned.  i did expect that a ls /mnt/lego/well/outside/the/namespace/ofdevice
might return `message too long' rather than `name not found', again on the grounds
that an application working to a published name space for a given device wouldn't
be messing about like that, (or to put it another way, no reasonable use would
require such arbitrary access), and thus no unexpectedly long names
would be produced, but perhaps that too was naive.   as an example, i suppose
i might have a smartcard with my keyring on it, mounted on $home/keyring
with an application that could at least attempt to search for long names on it.
--------------000105090100020703080904-- --upas-xexokcazyyuzxrqeemcmqajefc-- From csc.com!cjones83 Wed Jul 7 20:41:49 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Wed Jul 7 20:41:49 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i67H3LKH012199 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2004 13:03:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: Re: [inferno-list] mount and PAT? To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 13:01:56 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 07/07/2004 01:12:05 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII this is probably not an answer, just indication of my stupidity. i'd often restart my emu and styx servers in a plan9 window but without the scroll turned on. then, i'd be miles away from my server and try to mount the server, but it would hang because the listen is blocked writing to the window. doh! -caerwyn From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed Jul 7 20:49:43 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed Jul 7 20:49:43 BST 2004 Message-ID: <16badd679f061342d18f555170c28e23@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] mount and PAT? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 20:44:16 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mylqijmqmcpitkqxajnycgobua" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mylqijmqmcpitkqxajnycgobua Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that's why my `inf' script includes echo scroll >/dev/wctl on plan 9. --upas-mylqijmqmcpitkqxajnycgobua Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Wed Jul 7 20:44:30 BST 2004 Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Wed Jul 7 20:41:49 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i67H3LKH012199 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2004 13:03:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 13:01:56 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 07/07/2004 01:12:05 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: [inferno-list] mount and PAT? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk this is probably not an answer, just indication of my stupidity. i'd often restart my emu and styx servers in a plan9 window but without the scroll turned on. then, i'd be miles away from my server and try to mount the server, but it would hang because the listen is blocked writing to the window. doh! -caerwyn --upas-mylqijmqmcpitkqxajnycgobua-- From infernopark.com!vdharani Wed Jul 7 22:02:14 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plain.rackshack.net ([207.44.192.47]) by doppio; Wed Jul 7 22:02:14 BST 2004 Received: from www.infernopark.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by plain.rackshack.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i6824ham014428 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2004 21:04:43 -0500 Received: from 192.11.226.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jul 2004 21:04:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <7384.192.11.226.116.1089252283.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 21:04:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] mount and PAT? From: vdharani@infernopark.com To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal > this is probably not an answer, just indication of my stupidity. > i'd often restart my emu and styx servers in a plan9 window but without > the > scroll turned on. > then, i'd be miles away from my server and try to mount the server, but it > would hang > because the listen is blocked writing to the window. doh! it was a mystery to me for many months until i figured it out. now i am used to selecting 'scroll' for the specific window as soon as i open the window. atleast i tend to check 'scroll' mode when something freezes. i will use charles method from now on. The -s option in rio is useful too. i am wondering why that cant be the default for rio. the scroll problem causing the app freeze may puzzle anyone new to plan 9. thanks dharani From gmail.com!ad.thiele Thu Jul 8 03:50:46 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.207]) by doppio; Thu Jul 8 03:50:46 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d19so117620rnf for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 19:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.181.19 with SMTP id d19mr141884rnf; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 12:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <60593125040707123885a82d9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 15:38:09 -0400 From: Adrian Thiele To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: ipaq fs ? Any ideas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I finally got an arm kernel to at least boot on the ipaq. I have been using plan9`s bitsy fs and layout, in lieu of a better idea. I get: root is from [kernel ] then osinit.dis bitches about the flash/fs , and then it boots to an ipaq prompt. where I promptly lose all touch screen or serial port input capabilities. The ipaq won`t take anything but a reset. So I figure, I must have something wrong. Any thoughts, comments or suggestions would be appreciated. adrian From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu Jul 8 05:39:29 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu Jul 8 05:39:29 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ipaq fs ? Any ideas From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 05:33:31 +0100 In-Reply-To: <60593125040707123885a82d9@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-vzqfcsgulqhqgrsbkigouwesrb" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-vzqfcsgulqhqgrsbkigouwesrb Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sorry, i've meant to build one and put it up for http for you and some others but i've had to get some other things out of the way first. (and it's holiday time for others in the office.) i promise to do it asap. i use a wireless device to prepare a file system image, then i can copy that out for later use on other devices (perhaps without wireless). up to now we've used dossrv with 4e, lacking kfs, but now that kfs exists i'll use that. both sit on top of ftl(3), the flash translation layer. we usually start with an empty file system on one ipaq, taking the root from wireless, then install content using mkfs/mkext, finally copying /dev/flash/... out as an image for other devices. the image of a suitable file system over ftl can however be built using emu, by building a dossrv/kfs image into a big enough file, using disk/ftl or the host ftl command to provide the ftl formatting, finally copying that into the ipaq either using wireless or by serial port download. --upas-vzqfcsgulqhqgrsbkigouwesrb Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Thu Jul 8 03:54:04 BST 2004 Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.207]) by doppio; Thu Jul 8 03:50:46 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d19so117620rnf for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 19:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.181.19 with SMTP id d19mr141884rnf; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 12:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <60593125040707123885a82d9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 15:38:09 -0400 From: Adrian Thiele To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [inferno-list] ipaq fs ? Any ideas Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk I finally got an arm kernel to at least boot on the ipaq. I have been using plan9`s bitsy fs and layout, in lieu of a better idea. I get: root is from [kernel ] then osinit.dis bitches about the flash/fs , and then it boots to an ipaq prompt. where I promptly lose all touch screen or serial port input capabilities. The ipaq won`t take anything but a reset. So I figure, I must have something wrong. Any thoughts, comments or suggestions would be appreciated. adrian --upas-vzqfcsgulqhqgrsbkigouwesrb-- From infernopark.com!vdharani Thu Jul 8 06:00:13 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plain.rackshack.net ([207.44.192.47]) by doppio; Thu Jul 8 06:00:13 BST 2004 Received: from www.infernopark.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by plain.rackshack.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i68A2Eam018172 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2004 05:02:14 -0500 Received: from 67.85.61.176 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Thu, 8 Jul 2004 05:02:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <32891.67.85.61.176.1089280934.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> In-Reply-To: <60593125040707123885a82d9@mail.gmail.com> References: <60593125040707123885a82d9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 05:02:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ipaq fs ? Any ideas From: vdharani@infernopark.com To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal > I finally got an arm kernel to at least boot on the ipaq. > I have been using plan9`s bitsy fs and layout, in lieu of a better idea. > I get: > > root is from [kernel ] > > then osinit.dis bitches about the flash/fs , and then it boots to an > ipaq prompt. > where I promptly lose all touch screen or serial port input capabilities. > > The ipaq won`t take anything but a reset. > > So I figure, I must have something wrong. > > Any thoughts, comments or suggestions would be appreciated. > i am trying to play with some embedded devices using inferno. can you or someone suggest me which model of iPAQ i can try to buy? given that compaq merged with HP and given that there are so many models now, i am not sure which one to buy. also, if possible, can you tell me where i can buy (ebay or not)? thanks dharani From gmail.com!knapjack Thu Jul 8 07:55:33 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.197]) by doppio; Thu Jul 8 07:55:33 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d78so11773rnf for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.181.19 with SMTP id d19mr203809rnf; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:42:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c0620407072342668d2da3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 23:42:52 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] mount and PAT? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 13:01:56 -0400, Caerwyn B Jones wrote: > this is probably not an answer, just indication of my stupidity. > i'd often restart my emu and styx servers in a plan9 window but without the > scroll turned on. > then, i'd be miles away from my server and try to mount the server, but it > would hang > because the listen is blocked writing to the window. doh! This was my problem exactly. One window set to scroll, the other not. Whoops! Thanks! -Jack From gmail.com!knapjack Thu Jul 8 08:26:02 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.196]) by doppio; Thu Jul 8 08:26:02 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d5so181697rng for ; Thu, 08 Jul 2004 00:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.81.59 with SMTP id e59mr207114rnb; Thu, 08 Jul 2004 00:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c062040708002048d6a1d3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 00:20:15 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ipaq fs ? Any ideas In-Reply-To: <32891.67.85.61.176.1089280934.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <60593125040707123885a82d9@mail.gmail.com> <32891.67.85.61.176.1089280934.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 05:02:14 -0500 (CDT), vdharani@infernopark.com wrote: > i am trying to play with some embedded devices using inferno. can you or > someone suggest me which model of iPAQ i can try to buy? Not an iPAQ, but I've been thinking about some kind of embedded device that would serve as an auth server for either Inferno or Plan 9. These were used in a Plan 9 grid: http://www.advantech.com/products/Model_Detail.asp?model_id=1-D6M06&bu= and there's always the CerfCube: http://cgi.www.vitanuova.com/cgi-bin/www.vitanuova.co.uk/order.pl?PRODUCTSET=CERF or some random x86-knockoff embedded board: http://www.dilnetpc.com/dnp0049.htm though an iPAQ would probably be cheaper. -Jack From infernopark.com!vdharani Thu Jul 8 18:54:54 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plain.rackshack.net ([207.44.192.47]) by doppio; Thu Jul 8 18:54:54 BST 2004 Received: from www.infernopark.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by plain.rackshack.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i68MvQam021624 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2004 17:57:26 -0500 Received: from 192.11.226.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Thu, 8 Jul 2004 17:57:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <2343.192.11.226.116.1089327446.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> In-Reply-To: <6e35c062040708002048d6a1d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <60593125040707123885a82d9@mail.gmail.com> <32891.67.85.61.176.1089280934.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <6e35c062040708002048d6a1d3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 17:57:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ipaq fs ? Any ideas From: vdharani@infernopark.com To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal > On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 05:02:14 -0500 (CDT), vdharani@infernopark.com > wrote: >> i am trying to play with some embedded devices using inferno. can you or >> someone suggest me which model of iPAQ i can try to buy? > > Not an iPAQ, but I've been thinking about some kind of embedded device > that would serve as an auth server for either Inferno or Plan 9. > > These were used in a Plan 9 grid: > > http://www.advantech.com/products/Model_Detail.asp?model_id=1-D6M06&bu= > > and there's always the CerfCube: > > http://cgi.www.vitanuova.com/cgi-bin/www.vitanuova.co.uk/order.pl?PRODUCTSET=CERF > > or some random x86-knockoff embedded board: > > http://www.dilnetpc.com/dnp0049.htm > > though an iPAQ would probably be cheaper. thanks but i thought i will start with iPAQ particularly because it has a touchscreen. like people go on world tour, i thought i will visit embedded devices that run inferno, one-by-one. the list i have in mind are: iPAQ, wrt54g, Sony PS2, CerfCube, ... i will have to spend considerable amount of time and money but then i would like to do develop some taste in this area. atleast it will help me in understanding what people discuss here better. thanks dharani From infernopark.com!vdharani Thu Jul 8 18:59:02 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plain.rackshack.net ([207.44.192.47]) by doppio; Thu Jul 8 18:59:02 BST 2004 Received: from www.infernopark.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by plain.rackshack.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i68N1Yam021779 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2004 18:01:34 -0500 Received: from 192.11.226.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Thu, 8 Jul 2004 18:01:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <31865.192.11.226.116.1089327694.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> In-Reply-To: <2343.192.11.226.116.1089327446.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> References: <60593125040707123885a82d9@mail.gmail.com> <32891.67.85.61.176.1089280934.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <6e35c062040708002048d6a1d3@mail.gmail.com> <2343.192.11.226.116.1089327446.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 18:01:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ipaq fs ? Any ideas From: vdharani@infernopark.com To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal btw, what happened to SH3/4 port? is it done or stalled? i could guess that the base port was done on some board and it is working but just that no further effort was put in releasing the port. am i right? thanks dharani From gmail.com!knapjack Thu Jul 8 19:48:04 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]) by doppio; Thu Jul 8 19:48:04 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d5so208754rng for ; Thu, 08 Jul 2004 11:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.3.58 with SMTP id 58mr272597rnc; Thu, 08 Jul 2004 10:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c06204070810395882d3aa@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 10:39:20 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: Inferno List Subject: Ambitious Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been thinking about how to do an Inferno "thin client" where I can either boot a kernel or launch emu from flash media or CD that will prompt for a signer and fileserver (or use the ndb entries if configured, or maybe prompt for a registry), getauthinfo for the fileserver (but not store the certificate), bind the fileserver's /usr to the local namespace and start wm. It looks like wm/remotelogon is close or headed that direction (other than the namespace binding), but I'm not sure what remotelogon is/was designed for. Right now, it seems to allow remote authentication to local resources, but because local resources are, well, local, and always subject to physical access security issues, I don't yet understand it's purpose. It's also unfinished (hard-coded to the loopback interface for authentication), so I'm not judging, but just trying to get a handle on where its headed to see if I can contribute or if I should go down my own path. I'm also a newbie, so I'm fishing for reasons that remote authentication to local resources might be a good thing (given that a local home has to exist in order to logon). Using it to bind the remote /usr to the local would prevent local files (namely certificates) from being exploited to access remote resources, and prompting for unconfigured values would allow an essentially bare Inferno session or terminal to allow secure access to any network (until someone recompiles the remotelogin app, unless we bind that in as well). This can all be done through a variety of hoops now. I'm doing something like: home=/usr/inferno ndb/cs getauthinfo tcp!$FILESERVER mount $FILESERVER /n/remote bind /n/remote/usr /usr wm/wm wm/logon ...though $FILESERVER has to be set (I'm not sure how to query ndb for it, or if I should be using a registry to store and retrieve the values), and identifying myself to the system multiple times. Any comments or suggestions? -Jack From itic.ca!bootes Thu Jul 8 21:28:00 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from smtp.omnis.com ([216.239.128.26]) by doppio; Thu Jul 8 21:28:00 BST 2004 Received: from localhost (balder.omnis.com [216.239.128.60]) by smtp-relay.omnis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16528FCFB5 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2004 12:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1089315529.40eda2c9d4bc0@webmail.itic.ca> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 12:38:49 -0700 From: "plan9@itic.ca" Reply-To: plan9@itic.ca To: "" Subject: iPaq kernel question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2 X-Originating-IP: 209.188.70.6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Having compiled the ipaq1110 kernel with Inferno compilers, I load it the= n boot: ... Initial Dis: "/osinit.dis" panic: loading "osinit.dis": bad magic ktrace /kernel/path c000d314 c0b620d4 00000000 ... Any idea? From gmail.com!ad.thiele Fri Jul 9 08:54:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.207]) by doppio; Fri Jul 9 08:54:52 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d5so233312rng for ; Fri, 09 Jul 2004 00:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.88.79 with SMTP id l79mr116648rnb; Fri, 09 Jul 2004 00:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <60593125040709004930567917@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 03:49:03 -0400 From: Adrian Thiele To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ipaq fs ? Any ideas In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Cool, I`m getting closer and closer to the ballpark everyday, Dude, I know you have to be busy, no reason to apologize. We do need a Wiki/Doc project , aggragate the data you know ? Willing to help , and I can free webspace if needed. On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 05:33:31 +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > sorry, i've meant to build one and put it up for http for you and some others but i've > had to get some other things out of the way first. (and it's holiday time for > others in the office.) i promise to do it asap. > i use a wireless device to prepare a file system image, then i can copy > that out for later use on other devices (perhaps without wireless). > up to now we've used dossrv with 4e, lacking kfs, but now that kfs > exists i'll use that. both sit on top of ftl(3), the flash translation layer. > > we usually start with an empty file system on one ipaq, taking the root > from wireless, then install content using mkfs/mkext, finally > copying /dev/flash/... out as an image for other devices. > > the image of a suitable file system over ftl can however be built using emu, > by building a dossrv/kfs image into a big enough file, using disk/ftl > or the host ftl command to provide the ftl formatting, finally copying that > into the ipaq either using wireless or by serial port download. > > > From terzarima.net!forsyth Sat Jul 10 00:03:42 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sat Jul 10 00:03:42 BST 2004 Message-ID: <29fcf56cecab936356f5dd7219923978@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ipaq fs ? Any ideas From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 23:56:04 +0100 In-Reply-To: <31865.192.11.226.116.1089327694.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xobzncraoqmycedfawhqvbvsos" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xobzncraoqmycedfawhqvbvsos Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i have never received any SH board promised from several sources at different times. they never materialised. i did look at a little $99 special to buy myself but there was some problem with my actually completing the purchase, and it wasn't clear that one was really what i'd need for a sensible port. --upas-xobzncraoqmycedfawhqvbvsos Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Thu Jul 8 19:03:47 BST 2004 Received: from plain.rackshack.net ([207.44.192.47]) by doppio; Thu Jul 8 18:59:02 BST 2004 Received: from www.infernopark.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by plain.rackshack.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i68N1Yam021779 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2004 18:01:34 -0500 Received: from 192.11.226.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Thu, 8 Jul 2004 18:01:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <31865.192.11.226.116.1089327694.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> In-Reply-To: <2343.192.11.226.116.1089327446.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> References: <60593125040707123885a82d9@mail.gmail.com> <32891.67.85.61.176.1089280934.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> <6e35c062040708002048d6a1d3@mail.gmail.com> <2343.192.11.226.116.1089327446.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 18:01:34 -0500 (CDT) From: vdharani@infernopark.com To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Subject: Re: [inferno-list] ipaq fs ? Any ideas Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk btw, what happened to SH3/4 port? is it done or stalled? i could guess that the base port was done on some board and it is working but just that no further effort was put in releasing the port. am i right? thanks dharani --upas-xobzncraoqmycedfawhqvbvsos-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Sat Jul 10 00:05:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Sat Jul 10 00:05:28 BST 2004 Message-ID: <20c3e3802350881a3d1964af7cac6a36@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] mount and PAT? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 23:57:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: <6e35c0620407072342668d2da3@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ntncsgrponljislkcffmkjggza" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ntncsgrponljislkcffmkjggza Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that's a relief. i couldn't see anything else it could be, for that effect, and i didn't even think of that one myself until i read it on the list. --upas-ntncsgrponljislkcffmkjggza Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Thu Jul 8 08:04:10 BST 2004 Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.197]) by doppio; Thu Jul 8 07:55:33 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d78so11773rnf for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.181.19 with SMTP id d19mr203809rnf; Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:42:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c0620407072342668d2da3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 23:42:52 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Subject: Re: [inferno-list] mount and PAT? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 13:01:56 -0400, Caerwyn B Jones wrote: > this is probably not an answer, just indication of my stupidity. > i'd often restart my emu and styx servers in a plan9 window but without the > scroll turned on. > then, i'd be miles away from my server and try to mount the server, but it > would hang > because the listen is blocked writing to the window. doh! This was my problem exactly. One window set to scroll, the other not. Whoops! Thanks! -Jack --upas-ntncsgrponljislkcffmkjggza-- From mail.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Sun Jul 11 02:41:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Sun Jul 11 02:41:28 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 10 Jul 2004 18:35:43 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([10.24.36.24]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 10 Jul 2004 18:35:43 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 18:35:41 -0700 X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040710T183541Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Inferno plugin To: Inferno mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2004 01:35:43.0371 (UTC) FILETIME=[6192DDB0:01C466E7] Is the source for the IE plugin included with the regular Inferno = distribution? Also, what's the chance of making a working plugin for = IE/MacOSX? Maybe even Safari...? From corpus-callosum.com!jas Sun Jul 11 07:29:55 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from gate.corpus-callosum.com ([216.36.98.130]) by doppio; Sun Jul 11 07:29:55 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.8] (codex [10.0.1.8]) by gate.corpus-callosum.com (8.12.6/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i6B6OAT9016608 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 01:24:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jas@corpus-callosum.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) In-Reply-To: <20040710T183541Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> References: <20040710T183541Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jeff Sickel Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 01:24:04 -0500 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) There is a very slim chance of every seeing an Inferno plugin for IE on Mac OS X (considering that even Microsoft hasn't supported IE on OS X since 2001). A Safari (Netscape, Mozilla, OmniWeb, et al) plugin should be available shortly after the Quartz graphics port has been completed -- aka, removing the X11 dependancy. jas On Jul 10, 2004, at 8:35 PM, Ben Huntsman wrote: > Is the source for the IE plugin included with the regular Inferno > distribution? Also, what's the chance of making a working plugin for > IE/MacOSX? Maybe even Safari...? From mail.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Sun Jul 11 09:38:05 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Sun Jul 11 09:38:05 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 11 Jul 2004 01:32:20 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([10.24.36.24]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 11 Jul 2004 01:32:20 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: 11 Jul 2004 01:32:18 -0700 References: AAQT0hBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040711T013218Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2004 08:32:20.0324 (UTC) FILETIME=[94EB3240:01C46721] May I ask why the source for the plug in is not publicly available? >>> Jeff Sickel 7/10/2004 11:24:04 PM >>> There is a very slim chance of every seeing an Inferno plugin for IE on=20 Mac OS X (considering that even Microsoft hasn't supported IE on OS X=20 since 2001). A Safari (Netscape, Mozilla, OmniWeb, et al) plugin=20 should be available shortly after the Quartz graphics port has been=20 completed -- aka, removing the X11 dependancy. jas On Jul 10, 2004, at 8:35 PM, Ben Huntsman wrote: > Is the source for the IE plugin included with the regular Inferno=20 > distribution? Also, what's the chance of making a working plugin for=20 > IE/MacOSX? Maybe even Safari...? From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon Jul 12 09:12:02 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon Jul 12 09:12:02 BST 2004 Message-ID: <7ae49fa6c16a778ed05981f318a98526@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:04:23 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040711T013218Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it is available. see emu/Nt/ie; it's a variant of the Nt port, with modified win and os components. From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon Jul 12 09:15:22 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon Jul 12 09:15:22 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno plugin From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:07:42 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040711T013218Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit of course, having found emu/Nt/ie what you then find is that you need to mess with .cab format, and .cab SDK (is there a tar sdk i wonder?) then signed .cab files, and thwaite and/or verisad. by which time one has lost the will to live (or at least i have) From forsyth Tue Jul 13 10:46:17 BST 2004 remote from doppio subject: ie plugin From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:46:17 +0100 To: inferno-list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i was misled: not all the plugin support is in fact distributed. there's another chunk of C++ code that's the thing that's plugged in to IE; it arranges to invoke the result of building emu/Nt/ie. i'll add it to the distribution. From gmail.com!knapjack Tue Jul 13 18:53:58 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.197]) by doppio; Tue Jul 13 18:53:58 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d15so339861rng for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.92.10 with SMTP id p10mr63095rnb; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c0620407131048103359c2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:48:12 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: Inferno List Subject: Charon security? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As we debate the security (or lack thereof) of various Web browsers in the office, it made me wonder what possible security holes might exist in Charon. Assuming there were, how would one even start to exploit it? I would imagine the weakest link is the Javascript support. Maybe accessing cookie data? -Jack From gmail.com!knapjack Tue Jul 13 22:30:01 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]) by doppio; Tue Jul 13 22:30:01 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d15so353527rng for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 14:24:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.9.67 with SMTP id 67mr122806rni; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 14:24:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c062040713142468b25a55@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 14:24:08 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: Inferno List Subject: More Charon testing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Because I'm obsessive, I thought I'd pass this along: http://www.mauvecloud.net/jscore/ Charon fares very well. I think I'm going to start collecting browser test suites. If you have any lurking in your bookmarks, I'd love to have 'em! -Jack From math.psu.edu!cross Wed Jul 14 03:50:17 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from math.psu.edu ([146.186.130.2]) by doppio; Wed Jul 14 03:50:17 BST 2004 Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6E2iWMC002900 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id i6E2iWP00387 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200407140244.i6E2iWP00387@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Inferno hosted on plan9. (Stupid questions) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:44:32 -0400 From: Dan Cross I imagine this has been covered elsewhere, but after a casual search, I can't uncover the answer so instead of digging deeper I'm just going to ask the list. Forgive the laziness on my part. Here's the situation, I just installed the 20040527 release of Inferno on a Plan 9 4th Ed network consisting of a CPU server talking to Ken's file server (that is, not running Fossil, but running the older IL-only code). The CPU server tracks sources pretty closely. I then proceeded to setup the authentication services (signer et al), and additionally to run the standard network services. I know this isn't the recommended configuration, but regardless it works fairly well (I suppose I could run one instance of Inferno for the auth services and another for the standard network services to better approximate the seperation of functions across different machines). Okay, now for my questions. The first, and biggest, involves ownership of `emu' processes: I start Inferno as the Plan 9 pseudo-user ``inferno'' on the Plan 9 CPU server. Now, from Inferno running on, say, my laptop, I import the namespace of the Inferno instance running on the CPU server. That works well: I authenticate as myself (my login is `cross' everywhere), and the directory structure shows up in my namespace. However, all my access on the CPU server is as user ``inferno,'' not ``cross'' This makes sense in that the Inferno instance is started as ``inferno'' on the CPU server, and that's who owns the processes there, and hence who owns the exportfs that I'm talking to. However, I would much rather that run as ``cross.'' So, the question is: is there a way to get Inferno hosted on Plan 9 to change the ownership of processes to another user? I know the authorization structure changed in 4th Edition Plan 9, but I'm also guessing the folks at VN have accounted for that. The second question is much simpler: How do people start Inferno automatically when they boot their Plan 9 machines? I wrote a script to start the services I'm interested in, which works reasonably well when I start emu as, e.g., `emu -c1 /dis/sh.dis /whatever/startup.sh &'. However, just backgrounding the process seems non-optimal, and really seems like what the `-d' option to emu is for. However, when I try that, all the emu instances just exit after the startup.sh script is done (since it just starts daemons, that's not terribly surprising; I suppose the option was meant to run something that didn't immediately exit as a daemon). So, I've just started inferno from the command line, usually after logging in via SSH (Plan 9 won't let me kill my connection after that since something's waiting for Inferno to exit, of course, so I just manually close the connection with ^\q). However, what I'd really like to do is run inferno from cpurc and have it auth_chuid(2) to user `inferno'. Is there a pre-existing mechanism to do that, or is the best thing to do write a little program to do what I want? Or do something else like use cron to periodically check if inferno is running, and if not, start it? I suppose this is a ``best practices'' question more than anything really technical. Thanks for any information on either of these two questions! - Dan C. From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed Jul 14 13:49:16 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed Jul 14 13:49:16 BST 2004 Message-ID: <64a66232fa524df4e5dc1092490da5fc@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno hosted on plan9. (Stupid questions) From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:37:04 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200407140244.i6E2iWP00387@augusta.math.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i don't think either is a stupid question, since i've got at best incomplete (if possibly adequate) answers >>change the ownership of processes to another user? I know the >>authorization structure changed in 4th Edition Plan 9, but I'm also >>guessing the folks at VN have accounted for that. the authentication models of two systems are somewhat different, and always have been (so the plan 9 changes aren't relevant), and the implementation is completely different. nevertheless, if you look at mount(1) and import(4), you'll find that they accept options (-9 in mount's case) that allows Inferno to authenticate to Plan 9 using Plan 9's protocol. this isn't quite the end of the work in that area, but i think it might work well enough for you if you (re)mount the plan 9 connection within Inferno as the desired user. that affects access for that connection, for any process accessing the server through that connection (which isn't quite what you suggested). the other question was how to start inferno automatically in a reasonable state. that had two parts: its authority, and its state. for the latter, i had a similar problem, and found the whole effect of -d to be clumsy, so i've temporarily added a -I (capital letter i) option that might be in your version. like -d it disconnects the input but runs the normal emuinit. we use it as: emu -I /dis/sh.dis /usr/vn/startservers.sh $SERVERS but it's obvious that a more conventional approach to standard input/output when not running wm would be better (and deal with the earlier question about piping to or from emu). it will be improved. the authority of things started by cpurc is a general problem, even for Plan 9 commands, i think. perhaps a variant of auth/login might be appropriate, that used an entry added to the cpu server's factotum active in cpurc. you'd need to ensure that nothing else could activate the factotum entry outside the desired scope (perhaps that's always true). there might be a conventional way of changing the authority (short of using cron); this is one area where there have been enough changes in Plan 9 over the years that i sometimes can't remember all the current conventions myself. back to Inferno: i am currently working on a flexible extension to the Inferno authentication environment, which largely sits outside/on top of the current scheme. some bits of it might appear in the next snapshot, due shortly. From gmail.com!knapjack Thu Jul 15 22:13:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.201]) by doppio; Thu Jul 15 22:13:20 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id d5so574247rng for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.207.51 with SMTP id e51mr196606rng; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c06204071514003bf44ee0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:00:49 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: Inferno List Subject: Re: Ambitious In-Reply-To: <6e35c06204070810395882d3aa@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <6e35c06204070810395882d3aa@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 10:39:20 -0700, Jack Johnson wrote: > my own path. I'm also a newbie, so I'm fishing for reasons that > remote authentication to local resources might be a good thing Thought about it in the car the other day, and I could see something like an embedded print server that could be configured for remote authentication, so you wouldn't need to manually configure users & admins for each printing device. You'd wouldn't even store user-specific data other than the log that they had correctly authorized and the sheets of paper they generated. Better yet would be either just setting a directory server (or auto-config for the directory -- Rendezvous, anyone?) so you could just plop a multifunction copier on the LAN and away you go, with a system reset just as easy. (Says the man who had the lovely task of populating & synchronizing copy codes and address books for the organization's suite of Canon iR3300 recently.) -Jack From mail.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Fri Jul 16 01:15:23 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Fri Jul 16 01:15:23 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:09:37 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([10.24.36.24]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:09:37 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:09:31 -0700 References: AAwx0hBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040715T170931Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: [inferno-list] Re: Ambitious To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jul 2004 00:09:37.0555 (UTC) FILETIME=[2E92A630:01C46AC9] > -- Rendezvous, anyone?)=20 if you could port Rendezvous to Inferno, you'd have my higest respect -Ben From orthanc.ca!lyndon Fri Jul 16 01:27:59 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from orthanc.ca ([209.89.70.53]) by doppio; Fri Jul 16 01:27:59 BST 2004 Received: from d154-5-18-205.bchsia.telus.net (d154-5-18-205.bchsia.telus.net [154.5.18.205]) (authenticated bits=0) by orthanc.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6G0M99O016478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:22:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ca) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:22:04 -0700 From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Re: Ambitious Message-ID: <229A28ACFF139079C9BFBD4D@d154-5-18-205.bchsia.telus.net> In-Reply-To: <20040715T170931Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> References: AAwx0hBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf <20040715T170931Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on orthanc.ca --On 2004-7-15 5:09 PM -0700 Ben Huntsman wrote: >> -- Rendezvous, anyone?) > > if you could port Rendezvous to Inferno, you'd have my higest respect It's not that tough. Once you have mDNS ported you're most of the way there. You also need to fiddle the IP stack, but only in minor ways. I started implementing Rendevous (well, all of zeroconf) under 3rd edition, but dropped it when 4ed came out. --lyndon From corpus-callosum.com!jas Fri Jul 16 01:52:37 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from corpus-callosum.com ([216.36.98.130]) by doppio; Fri Jul 16 01:52:37 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.8] (unknown [10.0.1.8]) by corpus-callosum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60462544E7 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2004 19:46:51 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) In-Reply-To: <229A28ACFF139079C9BFBD4D@d154-5-18-205.bchsia.telus.net> References: AAwx0hBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf <20040715T170931Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> <229A28ACFF139079C9BFBD4D@d154-5-18-205.bchsia.telus.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <9FE968D0-D6C1-11D8-ABD0-003065E1714E@corpus-callosum.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jeff Sickel Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Re: Ambitious Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 19:46:50 -0500 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Port the new version of the Rendezvous spec, it includes global entries -- not just .local. You could just create a Limbo layer on top of the C API for hosted mode, though that wouldn't help for native. jas From math.psu.edu!cross Sun Jul 18 23:14:00 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from math.psu.edu ([146.186.130.2]) by doppio; Sun Jul 18 23:14:00 BST 2004 Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6IM8DMC019232 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 18:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by augusta.math.psu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id i6IM8DP23540 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 18:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200407182208.i6IM8DP23540@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno hosted on plan9. (Stupid questions) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:37:04 BST." <64a66232fa524df4e5dc1092490da5fc@terzarima.net> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 18:08:13 -0400 From: Dan Cross Charles Forsyth writes: > i don't think either is a stupid question, since i've got > at best incomplete (if possibly adequate) answers Hah! You flatter me, Forsyth. :-) > >>change the ownership of processes to another user? I know the > >>authorization structure changed in 4th Edition Plan 9, but I'm also > >>guessing the folks at VN have accounted for that. > > the authentication models of two systems are somewhat different, > and always have been (so the plan 9 changes aren't relevant), > and the implementation is completely different. nevertheless, if > you look at mount(1) and import(4), you'll find that they accept options > (-9 in mount's case) that allows Inferno to authenticate to Plan 9 > using Plan 9's protocol. this isn't quite the end of the work in > that area, but i think it might work well enough for you if you > (re)mount the plan 9 connection within Inferno as the desired user. > that affects access for that connection, for any process accessing > the server through that connection (which isn't quite what you > suggested). Hmm. What I was hoping for was a ``speaks for'' relationship similar to those specified in /lib/ndb/auth for Plan 9 CPU servers. In that context, I do believe that the Plan 9 changes are relevant in that switching user's in Plan 9 is no longer a simple matter of opening and writing to a file, but other steps are involved. I suppose I was assuming that there would be some sort of mapping between Inferno and Plan 9 user names so that Inferno could juggle things around to give the appearance of speaking for other users in the same manner Plan 9 does. Then, as long as Inferno was sufficiently convinced of the authenticity of an Inferno user, it could just switch itself into being the corresponding Plan 9 user without further authentication to the Plan 9 side. But maybe at this point I'm misunderstanding how the entire Plan 9 authentication system works. > the other question was how to start inferno automatically > in a reasonable state. that had two parts: its authority, and its > state. for the latter, i had a similar problem, and found the whole > effect of -d to be clumsy, so i've temporarily added a -I (capital > letter i) option that might be in your version. like -d it disconnects > the input but runs the normal emuinit. we use it as: > emu -I /dis/sh.dis /usr/vn/startservers.sh $SERVERS > > but it's obvious that a more conventional approach to standard > input/output when not running wm would be better (and deal with the > earlier question about piping to or from emu). it will be improved. It is in the version I downloaded recently, and does disconnect the input as you describe. Thanks, that helps out. > the authority of things started by cpurc is a general problem, even > for Plan 9 commands, i think. Yes, it is. I tried to address this once with an auth/as command, but Russ pointed out to me that I was using the old style of switching users around (by writing to `#c/user') and ignoring the new style. Of course, this worked for me because my only test case was changing the owner of processes to `none', which is special cased! Russ (or somebody) eventually wrapped up the Labs' auth/none command and put it in the distribution. Of course, this doesn't solve the problem in the general case where you want to become some random user, and I didn't bother investigating the new capability based mechanism any further since my immediate need (at the time, switching to `none' to run a process) had been satisfied. Perhaps it's time to reinvestigate, however. > perhaps a variant of auth/login might be appropriate, that used an > entry added to the cpu server's factotum active in cpurc. you'd need > to ensure that nothing else could activate the factotum entry outside > the desired scope (perhaps that's always true). there might be > a conventional way of changing the authority (short of using cron); this > is one area where there have been enough changes in Plan 9 over the > years that i sometimes can't remember all the current conventions myself. I think it is appropriate and becoming necessary. Maybe I'll sit down over the next week or so and have a look at it. Also, I do believe limiting access to factotum entries to a desired scope is always true. > back to Inferno: i am currently working on a flexible extension to > the Inferno authentication environment, which largely sits outside/on top of > the current scheme. some bits of it might appear in the next snapshot, > due shortly. Sounds intriguing! At anyrate, thanks for the information, I do appreciate it. And of course, all the efforts with Inferno over the years. The new licensing scheme is great for poor Marines such as myself. :-) - Dan C. From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Fri Jul 23 08:24:55 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from cpc5-oxfd3-5-0-cust22.oxfd.cable.ntl.com ([81.103.199.22]) by doppio; Fri Jul 23 08:24:55 BST 2004 Received: from cpc5-oxfd3-5-0-cust22.oxfd.cable.ntl.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cpc5-oxfd3-5-0-cust22.oxfd.cable.ntl.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6N7JAFQ004852 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:19:11 +0100 Received: (from jon@localhost) by cpc5-oxfd3-5-0-cust22.oxfd.cable.ntl.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i6N7J7mO004850 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:19:07 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cpc5-oxfd3-5-0-cust22.oxfd.cable.ntl.com: jon set sender to jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk using -f Subject: blocking on reading a file From: Jon Blower To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1090567147.4506.11.camel@cpc5-oxfd3-5-0-cust22.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:19:07 +0100 Hi all, I'm new to Limbo and I was wondering if there's an easy way to do the following: I'd like to create a (synthetic) file that represents the progress of a long-running program. The program periodically writes information about its progress (e.g. its % completion) to this file, and other things can query the progress by reading the file. The behaviour I'd like is the following: A client connects and reads the progress file. If the same client comes back to perform the read, the operation will block until the contents of the file change, at which point the new contents of the file are sent to the client. What's the easiest way of achieving this? Are there any code examples that I could steal from? Thanks very much, Jon -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Jul 23 13:25:17 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Jul 23 13:25:17 BST 2004 Message-ID: <37ec2f069eb2256ecaee9831a802e4f1@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] blocking on reading a file From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 13:15:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1090567147.4506.11.camel@cpc5-oxfd3-5-0-cust22.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the following might be helpful as examples. i was going to do it up slightly differently to send to you but i'm short of time today and this should help you make some progress. /appl/collab/lib/messages.b /appl/collab/servers/mpx.b the key bits are in messages.b using adts defined by message.m so you can possibly just plug it in using mpx.b as an example of how it might be invoked. it includes support for flushing by fid and tag. essentially it tracks different pending requests (ie, different tags) per user per file, using a list of (user, request) pairs. the only subtle point is the way the message list is managed: Msglist.tail initially points to an empty Msg, and on a subsequent write, that is filled in, and chained to a new empty message that becomes Msglist.tail, so the newly written message is not referenced by Msglist, but ... each user records the value of Msglist.tail initially, and advances it to read messages its next reference is not nil, which ensures simultaneously: after subsequent writes, each user sees exactly the messages that user has not yet read; and once every user has consumed a particular message, it will be reclaimed automatically by the garbage collector without further accounting here, because only Users can refer to a non-empty Msg. From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Jul 23 13:52:24 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Jul 23 13:52:24 BST 2004 Message-ID: <99e1b69ffe19ddb6a38f9c725d7d4ec7@terzarima.net> From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 13:48:41 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] blocking on reading a file In-Reply-To: <37ec2f069eb2256ecaee9831a802e4f1@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the messages scheme i posted is more elaborate than is needed (although it's not very big) if a client just wants the current state provided it has changed since its own last read, or waits until the state has changed. that can be done more simply by having a change counter associated with the data, and recording for each client the counter value at the last read, queueing the request if it has not changed, and replying to all queued requests once it has changed. the queue can be a simple Limbo list of ... (so it's really a stack but it usually doesn't matter in this application in which order clients get their replies). flush requires either shuffling the list to remove a request, or marking a list entry somehow as no longer wanted and leaving it in the list to be discarded at the next write. a further variant assigns a process inside the file server for each incoming request, with the blocking obtained by arranging channel communication appropriately. any of the three schemes can be used with either file2chan or styxservers. From comcast.net!caerwyn Wed Jul 28 00:35:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net ([204.127.202.56]) by doppio; Wed Jul 28 00:35:27 BST 2004 Received: from oak (h000c41af2c71.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.7.243]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004072723293901200qr10ve>; Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:29:39 +0000 Message-ID: <001401c47431$975eabc0$6401a8c0@oak> From: "Caerwyn Jones" To: "inferno" Subject: libdbm Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 19:29:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C47410.0F14B2D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C47410.0F14B2D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've ported libdbm to limbo; it's up on my site = http://caerwyn.home.comcast.net=20 Only lightly tested; so, send bugs to me. -Caerwyn ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C47410.0F14B2D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've ported libdbm to limbo; it's = up on my=20 site http://caerwyn.home.comcast.net<= /A> 
Only lightly tested; so, send bugs to=20 me.
 
-Caerwyn
 
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C47410.0F14B2D0-- From csc.com!cjones83 Wed Jul 28 14:15:57 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta01.csc.com ([20.137.2.247]) by doppio; Wed Jul 28 14:15:57 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta01.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i6SCKHk4016212 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:13:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: Re: [inferno-list] libdbm To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:05:50 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 07/28/2004 09:21:41 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII just a little story about using c2l for porting. I did c2l on the dbm code, did some routine code changes and started compiling. it complained that a variable, oldb, was declared twice as a modular variable, which it was, so i deleted one declaration. i then spent quite some time tracking down a bug. it turned out, the bug was that oldb was an internal static variable in two functions. c2l had converted static variables to modular variables, but they had the same name, so they were declared twice. beware of internal static variables with the same name. -caerwyn From mail.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Thu Jul 29 07:54:54 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Thu Jul 29 07:54:54 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 28 Jul 2004 23:49:05 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([10.24.36.24]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 28 Jul 2004 23:49:05 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 23:49:01 -0700 References: AAAk2hBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040728T234901Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] libdbm To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jul 2004 06:49:05.0540 (UTC) FILETIME=[23F9AC40:01C47538] Likewise, I ported over lib9p... 'twas trivial indeed. I copied over the = sources from plan9port and only had to make a few changes. E-mail me if = you want it or care... :) It's not very usefull by itself... -Ben >>> Caerwyn Jones 7/27/2004 4:29:39 PM >>> I've ported libdbm to limbo; it's up on my site http://caerwyn.home.comcast= .net=20 Only lightly tested; so, send bugs to me. -Caerwyn From jrf Thu Jul 29 09:46:01 BST 2004 remote from vacanza To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] libdbm Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:46:01 +0100 From: jrf In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xhqjqxqurhdegxvrecresdgeyo" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xhqjqxqurhdegxvrecresdgeyo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a new version of the function priddol() from /usr/inferno/utils/c2l/out.c that fixes this bug. static void priddol(char *s, int dol) { char *t; char buf[128]; if(dol){ t = strchr(s, '$'); if(t != nil) *t = '_'; lprint(s); if(t != nil){ strcpy(buf, s); while(slookup(buf)->type != T){ strcat(buf, "x"); lprint("x"); } *t = '$'; } } else lprint(s); } john firth jrf@vitanuova.com --upas-xhqjqxqurhdegxvrecresdgeyo Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from amer-mta01.csc.com ([20.137.2.247]) by doppio; Wed Jul 28 14:15:57 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta01.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i6SCKHk4016212 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:13:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:05:50 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 07/28/2004 09:21:41 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: [inferno-list] libdbm Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk just a little story about using c2l for porting. I did c2l on the dbm code, did some routine code changes and started compiling. it complained that a variable, oldb, was declared twice as a modular variable, which it was, so i deleted one declaration. i then spent quite some time tracking down a bug. it turned out, the bug was that oldb was an internal static variable in two functions. c2l had converted static variables to modular variables, but they had the same name, so they were declared twice. beware of internal static variables with the same name. -caerwyn --upas-xhqjqxqurhdegxvrecresdgeyo-- From forsyth Fri Jul 30 17:53:53 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] libdbm From: C H Forsyth Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:53:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: <001401c47431$975eabc0$6401a8c0@oak> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i thought it was better to have the same module instance support many files, so i started from a different libdbm source (one i'd done for Plan 9 ages ago that handled several open databases at once) and did a Limbo version of that last night. Datum is just array of byte (since Limbo arrays are counted), and a Dbf adt provides the operations. db.fetch(key) etc. i also had firstkey and nextkey return copies of the keys, so they won't be overwritten during the next operation. as i was doing it, i had such a sense of deja vu i suspect i'd already done this years ago but i somehow mislaid it (if so, it must have been on an old portable during a trip because all my file systems at home and at work are under ken's automatic snapshot regime). anyhow, i've put it in our sources, and i know it's in the dump this time. From csc.com!cjones83 Fri Jul 30 20:08:25 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Fri Jul 30 20:08:25 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i6UJ2ZR4026526 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:02:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: Re: [inferno-list] libdbm To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:02:36 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 07/30/2004 03:14:21 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Datum is just array of byte (since Limbo arrays are counted), i considered this. now i don't know why i didn't do it; it's so easy. that's the trick with porting i guess. translating the code and using the features the target language has to offer. all while debugging the code of the original, and debugging the target code. john, thanks for the fix. -caerwyn From mail.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Tue Aug 3 01:32:53 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Tue Aug 3 01:32:53 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:27:03 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([10.24.36.24]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:27:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:26:56 -0700 References: AAg02hBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040802T172656Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: lib9 vs lib9 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Aug 2004 00:27:02.0869 (UTC) FILETIME=[99106850:01C478F0] In Inferno, the main library is lib9, which provides many Plan 9 functions.= Additionally, the Plan9-port project has a library which provides a = similar function tailored to a different purpose, but also called lib9. = =20 Just how different from Inferno's lib9 is the plan9-port's lib9? Could = they be combined, or the plan9-port's used instead with just some tweaking = to compile under the Inferno environment? If they're radically different, = shouldn't we differentiate between them with names like lib9 and 9libc or = lib9c or something? -Ben From morphisms.net!wkj Tue Aug 3 02:13:10 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from holo.morphisms.net ([66.93.84.55]) by doppio; Tue Aug 3 02:13:10 BST 2004 Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF4724FD9 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 85C9527; Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:07:15 -0400 From: William Josephson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] lib9 vs lib9 Message-ID: <20040803010715.GA81866@mero.morphisms.net> References: <20040802T172656Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040802T172656Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i X-No-archive: yes On Mon, Aug 02, 2004 at 05:26:56PM -0700, Ben Huntsman wrote: > In Inferno, the main library is lib9, which provides many Plan 9 > functions. Additionally, the Plan9-port project has a library which > provides a similar function tailored to a different purpose, but also > called lib9. For one thing, the port which Russ and I maintain jumps through a lot of hoops to do process emulation (which turns out to be sort of expensive). The two really have rather different aims. > Just how different from Inferno's lib9 is the plan9-port's lib9? > Could they be combined, or the plan9-port's used instead with just > some tweaking to compile under the Inferno environment? If they're > radically different, shouldn't we differentiate between them with > names like lib9 and 9libc or lib9c or something? Once upon a time the one in the ports tree was called lib9c. Calling it 9libc just buggers up the Unix linker. I guess I just don't see what the big deal is. They're different and they live in different places, so the risk of confusing the two seems small. From mail.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Tue Aug 3 02:27:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Tue Aug 3 02:27:27 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:21:37 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([10.24.36.24]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:21:37 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:21:36 -0700 References: AAg22hBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040802T182136Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] lib9 vs lib9 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Aug 2004 01:21:37.0593 (UTC) FILETIME=[38F3A290:01C478F8] >> Just how different from Inferno's lib9 is the plan9-port's lib9? >> Could they be combined, or the plan9-port's used instead with just >> some tweaking to compile under the Inferno environment? If they're >> radically different, shouldn't we differentiate between them with >> names like lib9 and 9libc or lib9c or something? > >Once upon a time the one in the ports tree was called lib9c. >Calling it 9libc just buggers up the Unix linker. I thought about the linker thing the second after I sent the e-mail. >I guess I just don't see what the big deal is. They're different >and they live in different places, so the risk of confusing the two >seems small. The big deal is that I thought about a project in which one could build = most of the Plan9 kernel/source or Inferno kernel/source from the same = tree, by way of something along the lines of "mk plan9" or "mk inferno"... = from a non-Plan9 system, eg, any os/cpu combination supported by the = Inferno environment... The advantage being simple porting between the = two. Having a (more) unified lib9 would solve a gob of headaches I've = already run up against. From morphisms.net!wkj Tue Aug 3 03:04:37 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from holo.morphisms.net ([66.93.84.55]) by doppio; Tue Aug 3 03:04:37 BST 2004 Received: from mero.morphisms.net (mero.morphisms.net [66.93.84.246]) by holo.morphisms.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039CE24FFC for ; Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mero.morphisms.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F39A942; Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:58:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:58:47 -0400 From: William Josephson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] lib9 vs lib9 Message-ID: <20040803015847.GA82551@mero.morphisms.net> References: <20040802T182136Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040802T182136Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i X-No-archive: yes On Mon, Aug 02, 2004 at 06:21:36PM -0700, Ben Huntsman wrote: > >I guess I just don't see what the big deal is. They're different > >and they live in different places, so the risk of confusing the two > >seems small. > The big deal is that I thought about a project in which one could > build most of the Plan9 kernel/source or Inferno kernel/source from > the same tree, by way of something along the lines of "mk plan9" or > "mk inferno"... from a non-Plan9 system, eg, any os/cpu combination > supported by the Inferno environment... The advantage being simple > porting between the two. Having a (more) unified lib9 would solve a > gob of headaches I've already run up against. But then you'd just have to deal with them when unifying the two. Moreover, I don't think you could unify the two in a useful way without changing what the ports version does substantially (feel free to prove me wrong, though!). From eik.bme.hu!fgergo Tue Aug 3 07:58:50 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from less.eik.bme.hu ([152.66.115.9]) by doppio; Tue Aug 3 07:58:50 BST 2004 Received: from less.eik.bme.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by less.eik.bme.hu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i736r0pb073072 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:53:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from fgergo@eik.bme.hu) Received: (from www@localhost) by less.eik.bme.hu (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i736r0nO073071 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:53:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from fgergo@eik.bme.hu) X-Authentication-Warning: less.eik.bme.hu: www set sender to fgergo@eik.bme.hu using -f Received: from 213.253.194.6 ([213.253.194.6]) by webmail.eik.bme.hu (IMP) with HTTP for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:53:00 +0200 Message-ID: <1091515980.410f364c5ac8e@webmail.eik.bme.hu> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:53:00 +0200 From: fgergo@eik.bme.hu To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: new faq MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.5 X-Originating-IP: 213.253.194.6 Hi, I put a new version of the Inferno faq to http://ftp.bme.hu/OS/inferno/faq.html . I'd take over maintaining it if there are no objections. The Limbo section is taken completely from the original version. If there are gross mistakes in the other sections it's my fault. Since my English is rather limited, I'd like to receive stylistic changes. Changes to content are eagerly awaited as well. The current questions are for the semi-enthusiastic geek. If you have ideas for new entries, please send them to me! At the moment the html validator at www.w3c.org says there are 85 html errors. I'll correct those. Pip offered to make a Dutch translation, I'll do a German and a Hungarian. It'd be nice if a native German speaker would volunteer to check my translation or make the the translation him/herself. If you plan to do any other translation, I'll send you the faq generator. cheers: gergo From terzarima.net!forsyth Tue Aug 3 08:47:57 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Tue Aug 3 08:47:57 BST 2004 Message-ID: <305b51ef23b71c8f28daac729695b142@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new faq From: Charles Forsyth Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:41:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1091515980.410f364c5ac8e@webmail.eik.bme.hu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-necesyrvvfpeddtlqglsrkfshr" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-necesyrvvfpeddtlqglsrkfshr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thank you; i've updated our referencing web page. --upas-necesyrvvfpeddtlqglsrkfshr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Tue Aug 3 08:02:34 BST 2004 Received: from less.eik.bme.hu ([152.66.115.9]) by doppio; Tue Aug 3 07:58:50 BST 2004 Received: from less.eik.bme.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by less.eik.bme.hu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i736r0pb073072 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:53:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from fgergo@eik.bme.hu) Received: (from www@localhost) by less.eik.bme.hu (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i736r0nO073071 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:53:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from fgergo@eik.bme.hu) X-Authentication-Warning: less.eik.bme.hu: www set sender to fgergo@eik.bme.hu using -f Received: from 213.253.194.6 ([213.253.194.6]) by webmail.eik.bme.hu (IMP) with HTTP for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:53:00 +0200 Message-ID: <1091515980.410f364c5ac8e@webmail.eik.bme.hu> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:53:00 +0200 From: fgergo@eik.bme.hu To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.5 X-Originating-IP: 213.253.194.6 Subject: [inferno-list] new faq Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Hi, I put a new version of the Inferno faq to http://ftp.bme.hu/OS/inferno/faq.html . I'd take over maintaining it if there are no objections. The Limbo section is taken completely from the original version. If there are gross mistakes in the other sections it's my fault. Since my English is rather limited, I'd like to receive stylistic changes. Changes to content are eagerly awaited as well. The current questions are for the semi-enthusiastic geek. If you have ideas for new entries, please send them to me! At the moment the html validator at www.w3c.org says there are 85 html errors. I'll correct those. Pip offered to make a Dutch translation, I'll do a German and a Hungarian. It'd be nice if a native German speaker would volunteer to check my translation or make the the translation him/herself. If you plan to do any other translation, I'll send you the faq generator. cheers: gergo --upas-necesyrvvfpeddtlqglsrkfshr-- From cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mirtchov Tue Aug 3 20:05:34 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ensa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.2.1]) by doppio; Tue Aug 3 20:05:34 BST 2004 Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (imgw1 [136.159.5.9]) by ensa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i73Iwv5o025389 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:58:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fbsd (fbsd [136.159.7.68]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i73IwMpj006305 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:58:32 -0600 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:58:16 -0600 (MDT) From: andrey mirtchovski To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new faq In-Reply-To: <1091515980.410f364c5ac8e@webmail.eik.bme.hu> Message-ID: References: <1091515980.410f364c5ac8e@webmail.eik.bme.hu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.2 required=6.8 X-Spam-Level: *** sorry to post to the list -- private message was returned with: plan9 Aug 3 08:03:17 delivery to net!eik.bme.hu failed: 550 Client host rejected: cannot find your hostname, [136.159.220.110] anyway, i volunteer to do a bulgarian translation of the FAQ :) andrey From mail.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Wed Aug 4 03:36:10 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Wed Aug 4 03:36:10 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:30:20 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([10.24.36.24]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:30:20 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:30:15 -0700 References: AAQ72hBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040803T193015Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new faq To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Aug 2004 02:30:20.0481 (UTC) FILETIME=[FCCC2B10:01C479CA] The new faq claims that there is XScale support... which compiler is it? = Would it support the current generation of iPaqs?? :) Thanks! >>> andrey mirtchovski 8/3/2004 11:58:16 AM >>> sorry to post to the list -- private message was returned with: plan9 Aug 3 08:03:17 delivery to net!eik.bme.hu failed: 550 Client host = rejected: cannot find your hostname, [136.159.220.110] anyway, i volunteer to do a bulgarian translation of the FAQ :) andrey From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed Aug 4 07:10:19 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed Aug 4 07:10:19 BST 2004 Message-ID: <1d298425acb135d45c17eaab1bd5b597@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new faq From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 07:02:35 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040803T193015Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-gwveczcbbcavpjyykxocvkuexw" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gwveczcbbcavpjyykxocvkuexw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 5a/5c/5l the problem with the `current generation of iPAQs' (to judge from the list i'm on) is that there are enough different members of that set and documentation is scarce, so that even Linux ports are increasingly problematic. i gave up until it settled down, and i'm not sure it has, yet. the cerf250 port has some xscale support, but that's just a board with serial and ether so i'm not sure about the lcd controller. (it's in the chip obviously but with no visible means of testing it i suspect there isn't a driver yet) --upas-gwveczcbbcavpjyykxocvkuexw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Wed Aug 4 03:31:57 BST 2004 Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Wed Aug 4 03:36:10 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:30:20 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([10.24.36.24]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:30:20 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:30:15 -0700 References: AAQ72hBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040803T193015Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Aug 2004 02:30:20.0481 (UTC) FILETIME=[FCCC2B10:01C479CA] Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new faq Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk The new faq claims that there is XScale support... which compiler is it? = Would it support the current generation of iPaqs?? :) Thanks! >>> andrey mirtchovski 8/3/2004 11:58:16 AM >>> sorry to post to the list -- private message was returned with: plan9 Aug 3 08:03:17 delivery to net!eik.bme.hu failed: 550 Client host = rejected: cannot find your hostname, [136.159.220.110] anyway, i volunteer to do a bulgarian translation of the FAQ :) andrey --upas-gwveczcbbcavpjyykxocvkuexw-- From eik.bme.hu!fgergo Wed Aug 4 11:29:46 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from less.eik.bme.hu ([152.66.115.9]) by doppio; Wed Aug 4 11:29:46 BST 2004 Received: from less.eik.bme.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by less.eik.bme.hu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i74ANupb014181 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:23:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from fgergo@eik.bme.hu) Received: (from www@localhost) by less.eik.bme.hu (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i74ANudC014180 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:23:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from fgergo@eik.bme.hu) X-Authentication-Warning: less.eik.bme.hu: www set sender to fgergo@eik.bme.hu using -f Received: from 213.253.194.6 ([213.253.194.6]) by webmail.eik.bme.hu (IMP) with HTTP for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:23:56 +0200 Message-ID: <1091615036.4110b93c4c52e@webmail.eik.bme.hu> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:23:56 +0200 From: fgergo@eik.bme.hu To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new faq References: <1091515980.410f364c5ac8e@webmail.eik.bme.hu> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.5 X-Originating-IP: 213.253.194.6 sorry about that! At the moment I can't do anything about that: if I try to receive an email from an ip which does not have a DNS entry, it'll be rejected. (The name coming via SMTP, does not have to be the same as a reverse dns lookup would say.) I can't convince the administrator to change the policy. SPF will be installed in a few weeks. (Then that will be the problem.) I'll try to find a stable enough email box soon. gergo Quoting andrey mirtchovski : > sorry to post to the list -- private message was returned with: > > plan9 Aug 3 08:03:17 delivery to net!eik.bme.hu failed: 550 Client host > rejected: cannot find your hostname, [136.159.220.110] > > anyway, i volunteer to do a bulgarian translation of the FAQ :) > > andrey > > From imperium.ph!dido Fri Aug 6 19:43:47 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from gateway.imperium.ph ([202.175.240.154]) by doppio; Fri Aug 6 19:43:47 BST 2004 Received: from imperium.ph (morgoth.imperium.ph [192.168.1.35]) by gateway.imperium.ph (Postfix) with SMTP id BD43B46CFD for ; Sat, 7 Aug 2004 02:33:22 +0800 (PHT) Received: by imperium.ph (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 7 Aug 2004 02:37:37 +0800 From: dido@imperium.ph Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 02:37:37 +0800 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: .bit files Message-ID: <20040806183737.GA7402@imperium.ph> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Operating-System: Linux morgoth 2.6.7-gentoo-r11 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i I notice that all images on Inferno seem to be in the form of .bit files. I haven't quite looked thoroughly but this format doesn't seem to be documented anywhere except as code. How is this format structured, and are there converters to and from more common formats? -- dido Sans les mathematiques on ne penetre point au fond de la philosophie. Sans la philosophie on ne penetre point au fond des mathematiques. Sans les deux on ne penetre au fond de rien. From gmail.com!russcox Fri Aug 6 19:53:10 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]) by doppio; Fri Aug 6 19:53:10 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 73so53797rnk for ; Fri, 06 Aug 2004 11:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.207.29 with SMTP id e29mr50401rng; Fri, 06 Aug 2004 11:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:47:15 -0400 From: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] .bit files In-Reply-To: <20040806183737.GA7402@imperium.ph> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20040806183737.GA7402@imperium.ph> the image format is described in image(6). russ From ericsson.com!bengt.kleberg Mon Aug 9 15:23:30 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from eagle.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.53]) by doppio; Mon Aug 9 15:23:30 BST 2004 Received: from esealmw140.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by eagle.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id i79EHaAh028120 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:17:40 +0200 Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by esealmw140.al.sw.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:17:36 +0200 Received: from wsb017.uab.ericsson.se ([134.138.232.116]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id PR28W2AT; Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:17:36 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wsb017.uab.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/client-1.3uab4) id i79EHag12366; Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:17:36 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <4117877F.90705@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:17:35 +0200 X-Sybari-Trust: fd553ad4 74470f8f b57bedf5 00000138 From: Bengt Kleberg User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6+ (X11/20040601) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new faq References: <1091515980.410f364c5ac8e@webmail.eik.bme.hu> In-Reply-To: <1091515980.410f364c5ac8e@webmail.eik.bme.hu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Aug 2004 14:17:36.0402 (UTC) FILETIME=[9EA49720:01C47E1B] fgergo@eik.bme.hu wrote: > Hi, > > I put a new version of the Inferno faq to > http://ftp.bme.hu/OS/inferno/faq.html . I'd take over maintaining it if there > are no objections. > > The Limbo section is taken completely from the original version. If there are > gross mistakes in the other sections it's my fault. > Since my English is rather limited, I'd like to receive stylistic changes. ok, perhaps you have been swamped, but here are 3 things i have noticed: ''What? # clean and consistent method # security, provided'' there should not be a ',' after security ''Is there a mailing list? Currently Vita Nuova is looking after a mailing list.'' replace 'looking after' with 'maintaining', or 'administring' ''Why does 'ls' show some directories twice? If you read the faq, you probably don't want to know at the moment. It is a result of a sys->bind.'' replace '>' with '>' bengt From yahoo.com!tigerphoenixdragon Mon Aug 9 15:52:57 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from web42104.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.197]) by doppio; Mon Aug 9 15:52:57 BST 2004 Message-ID: <20040809144706.12504.qmail@web42104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.149.252.218] by web42104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Aug 2004 07:47:06 PDT Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 07:47:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Stefan Johnson Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new faq To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <4117877F.90705@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > It is a result of a sys->bind.'' > > replace '>' with '>' > or... if it's html... replace the > with > which is the correct way of doing it. Too many people forget the ';' at the end of their character codes. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From ionkov.net!lucho Mon Aug 9 21:50:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.198.35]) by doppio; Mon Aug 9 21:50:28 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <200408092044360130014785e>; Mon, 9 Aug 2004 20:44:37 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 994C446224C; Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:46:57 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Inferno, Plan9 /srv, and mount -9 Message-ID: <20040809204657.GA8257@ionkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Hi, Is it possible to mount servers posted in the Plan9 /srv directory from Inferno? I tried the following: term$ bind / inferno/n/local term$ emu -r inferno ; mount -9 /n/local/srv/dos /tmp/t /n/local/dev/sdC0/9fat and I am getting mount: mount failed: inappropriate use of fd Any ideas what am I doing wrong? Thanks, Lucho From terzarima.net!forsyth Tue Aug 10 08:28:23 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Tue Aug 10 08:28:23 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno, Plan9 /srv, and mount -9 From: Charles Forsyth Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:24:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040809204657.GA8257@ionkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ucfbhjlsmcvedbwfblufidorxc" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ucfbhjlsmcvedbwfblufidorxc Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit /srv/dos has already been mounted by Plan 9 so Plan 9 has tagged it as a mount channel and it cannot thereafter be used for ordinary reads and writes (eg, in Plan9 applications including Inferno). it would have worked had it not been mounted (example below), except that in ; mount -9 /n/local/srv/dos /tmp/t /n/local/dev/sdC0/9fat the /n/local/dev/sdC0/9fat is interpreted by dossrv (running in Plan 9)-- it's passed as a the aname parameter to the attach message-- and that name probably doesn't exist in Plan 9. still, you'd have got a different diagnostic. it's just as well that Plan 9 tags the file descriptor because two distinct mount drivers (eg, Plan 9's and Inferno's) can't share a single 9p/styx stream--each expects to control allocation of tags and fids for all clients. Plan 9's export intercepts references to mounted channels (QTMOUNT) and handles them specially for that reason. if you run dossrv test in plan 9 then mount -9 /n/local/srv/dos /n/remote /dev/sdC0/9fat in Inferno, it will work, provided you haven't mounted /srv/test in Plan 9 otherwise. of course, now you have a different problem: you need to ensure that two dossrvs don't access the same partition. a second problem is that if you now try to mount /srv/test in Plan 9, it will mess up Inferno's access. --upas-ucfbhjlsmcvedbwfblufidorxc Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Mon Aug 9 21:51:46 BST 2004 Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.198.35]) by doppio; Mon Aug 9 21:50:28 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <200408092044360130014785e>; Mon, 9 Aug 2004 20:44:37 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 994C446224C; Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:46:57 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-ID: <20040809204657.GA8257@ionkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: [inferno-list] Inferno, Plan9 /srv, and mount -9 Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Is it possible to mount servers posted in the Plan9 /srv directory from Inferno? I tried the following: term$ bind / inferno/n/local term$ emu -r inferno ; mount -9 /n/local/srv/dos /tmp/t /n/local/dev/sdC0/9fat and I am getting mount: mount failed: inappropriate use of fd Any ideas what am I doing wrong? Thanks, Lucho --upas-ucfbhjlsmcvedbwfblufidorxc-- From ionkov.net!lucho Tue Aug 10 14:50:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.202.55]) by doppio; Tue Aug 10 14:50:36 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2004081013444401100kh4sue>; Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:44:45 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 78CCE46224C; Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:47:08 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno, Plan9 /srv, and mount -9 Message-ID: <20040810134707.GA11739@ionkov.net> References: <20040809204657.GA8257@ionkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Thank you for the explanation. I went as far as fdtochan in sysfile.c, but didn't check the meaning of CMSG. The real problem I have is not with mounting /srv/dos. I am trying to test if rioimport works. I noticed that the mount call in it gives the 'inappropriate use of fd' error (although rioimport doesn't complain in any way -- just hangs), and I tried to find out if the problem is with /srv/rio.* only, or applies to all /srv files. So my real question is how to make rioimport to work? I do: term$ bind / inferno/n/local term$ emu ; rioimport wm/deb rioimport hangs ... Thanks, Lucho On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 08:24:29AM +0100, Charles Forsyth said: > /srv/dos has already been mounted by Plan 9 so Plan 9 has > tagged it as a mount channel and it cannot thereafter be used > for ordinary reads and writes (eg, in Plan9 applications including Inferno). > > it would have worked had it not been mounted (example below), except that in > > ; mount -9 /n/local/srv/dos /tmp/t /n/local/dev/sdC0/9fat > > the /n/local/dev/sdC0/9fat is interpreted by dossrv (running in Plan 9)-- > it's passed as a the aname parameter to the attach message-- > and that name probably doesn't exist in Plan 9. still, you'd have got > a different diagnostic. > > it's just as well that Plan 9 tags the file descriptor because two > distinct mount drivers (eg, Plan 9's and Inferno's) can't share a single > 9p/styx stream--each expects to control allocation of tags and fids > for all clients. > > Plan 9's export intercepts references to mounted channels (QTMOUNT) > and handles them specially for that reason. > > if you run > dossrv test > in plan 9 > then > mount -9 /n/local/srv/dos /n/remote /dev/sdC0/9fat > in Inferno, it will work, provided you haven't mounted /srv/test in Plan 9 otherwise. > > of course, now you have a different problem: you need to ensure that two dossrvs > don't access the same partition. > > a second problem is that if you now try to mount /srv/test in Plan 9, it > will mess up Inferno's access. > Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:46:57 -0400 > From: Latchesar Ionkov > To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com > Subject: [inferno-list] Inferno, Plan9 /srv, and mount -9 > > Hi, > > Is it possible to mount servers posted in the Plan9 /srv directory from > Inferno? > > I tried the following: > > term$ bind / inferno/n/local > term$ emu -r inferno > ; mount -9 /n/local/srv/dos /tmp/t /n/local/dev/sdC0/9fat > > and I am getting > > mount: mount failed: inappropriate use of fd > > Any ideas what am I doing wrong? > > Thanks, > Lucho From rog Tue Aug 10 14:56:07 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno, Plan9 /srv, and mount -9 Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:56:07 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <20040810134707.GA11739@ionkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The real problem I have is not with mounting /srv/dos. I am trying to test > if rioimport works. rioimport does not currently work. it did work, but it assumed that namespace changes made using commands via the #C device were visible in the #U namespace, and that property of #C was changed, so it doesn't work any more. i haven't currently worked out a neat way of fixing it (abolishing the # namespace and using 'A' files in both plan 9 and inferno would a neat general solution, i think (+ would allow inferno to attach to arbitrary plan 9 devices and services), but that's not going to happen soon/ever). cheers, rog. From rog Tue Aug 10 17:46:49 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] blocking on reading a file Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:46:49 +0100 From: rog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The behaviour I'd like is the following: A client connects and reads the > progress file. If the same client comes back to perform the read, the > operation will block until the contents of the file change, at which > point the new contents of the file are sent to the client. you might want to check out logfile(4), which does something similar to what you're after. the source (/appl/cmd/logfile.b) isn't too large either. From mail.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Thu Aug 12 17:04:49 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Thu Aug 12 17:04:49 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:58:56 -0700 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C48085.462272F8" Subject: grid/remotelogon troubles Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:58:56 -0700 Message-ID: <7DD37218104E31429E79EB0BB136800E11C457@vargas.ntdom.cupdx> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <7DD37218104E31429E79EB0BB136800E11C457@vargas.ntdom.cupdx> Thread-Topic: [inferno-list] Inferno, Plan9 /srv, and mount -9 Thread-Index: AcR+4Vj8XIo0WvN6SHyVqfXRkeOkcgBoTA1N From: "Benjamin Huntsman" To: Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Aug 2004 15:58:56.0864 (UTC) FILETIME=[461EB600:01C48085] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C48085.462272F8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Li4uIGp1c3QgZGlzY292ZXJlZCBncmlkL3JlbW90ZWxvZ29uLiAgRmFudGFzdGljISAgSXQgd2Fz IGV4YWN0bHkgd2hhdCBJIHdhcyBsb29raW5nIGZvciwgYW5kIEkgZGlzY292ZXJlZCBpdCBqdXN0 IGJlZm9yZSBJIGdyaXBlZCBhYm91dCB0aGUgbGFjayBvZiBwYXNzd29yZCBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGlv biBpbiB3bS9sb2dvbi4NCiANCkEgbGl0dGxlIHByb2JsZW0sIHRob3VnaC4gIEkgY2FuJ3QgZ2V0 IGl0IHRvIGNvbm5lY3QsIHRob3VnaCBJIGhhdmUgdGhlIHJpZ2h0IGNlcnRpZmljYXRlcywgYW5k IGl0IGRlZmluYXRlbHkgY29tbXVuaWNhdGVzIHdpdGggdGhlIHJlbW90ZSBob3N0LiAgSGVyZSdz IGhvdyBJIGRvIGl0Og0KT24gdGhlIHRhcmdldCBzeXN0ZW06DQogICBzdmMvYXV0aA0KICAgbmRi L2NzDQogICBzdmMvbmV0DQogICBhdXRoL2tleWZzDQogDQpPbiB0aGUgY2xpZW50Og0KICAgbmRi L2NzDQogICB3bS93bSBncmlkL3JlbW90ZWxvZ24gPHRhcmdldHN5c3RlbT4NCiANCkl0J3MgYSBu by1nbyBmcm9tIHRoZXJlLiAgVGhlIHRhcmdldCBzeXN0ZW0gaGVhcnMgdGhlIHJlcXVlc3QsIGFu ZCByZXBvcnRzOg0KIjsgbGlzdGVuOiBnb3QgY29ubmVjdGlvbiBvbiB0Y3AhKiFyZWdpc3RyeSBm cm9tIDEwLjAuMC41MCEzMDM3DQpsaXN0ZW46IGF1dGggb24gdGNwISohcmVnaXN0cnkgZmFpbGVk OiBodW5ndXAiDQogDQp0aGUgY29uc29sZSBvbiB0aGUgY2xpZW50IHJlcG9ydHM6DQoibG9nb246 IGNhbm5vdCBjb250YWN0IHJlZ2lzdHJ5OiBtb3VudCBmYWlsZWQ6IGJhZCBmdmVyc2lvbiBjb252 ZXJzaW9uIG9uIHJlcGx5Ig0KIA0KSXMgdGhpcyBhIHByb2dyYW0gZXJyb3IsIG9yIGRpZCBJIHNl dCBzb21ldGhpbmcgdXAgaW5jb3JyZWN0bHk/ICBGb3IgcmVmZXJlbmNlLCB0aGV5J3JlIGJvdGgg ZW11IHJ1bm5pbmcgdW5kZXIgTnQuICBUaGFua3MhDQogDQotQmVuDQogDQpPbiBhIHRvdGFsbHkg ZGlmZmVyZW50IG5vdGU6IHdoYXQgaGFwcGVuZWQgdG8gYmVpbmcgYWJsZSB0byBkb3VibGUtY2xp Y2sgLmRpcyBmaWxlcyB0byBleGVjdXRlIHRoZW0/DQogDQo= ------_=_NextPart_001_01C48085.462272F8 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjkPAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBYAD AA4AAADUBwgADAAIADoAOAAEAG0BASCAAwAOAAAA1AcIAAwACAA6ADgABABtAQEJgAEAIQAAADEw REQyQ0NCRThEOEU0NDRCRTExNkNEQTEyQUNEMDhDAHoHAQOQBgDwEAAAOAAAAB8AGgABAAAAEgAA AEkAUABNAC4ATgBvAHQAZQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAAAfADcAAQAAADQAAABnAHIAaQBkAC8AcgBlAG0A bwB0AGUAbABvAGcAbwBuACAAdAByAG8AdQBiAGwAZQBzAAAAQAA5APhyIkaFgMQBHwA9AAEAAAAC AAAAAAAAAAIBRwABAAAANgAAAGM9VVM7YT0gO3A9Q29uY29yZGlhIFBvcnRsYTtsPVZBUkdBUy0w NDA4MTIxNTU4NTZaLTYzAAAAHwBJAAEAAABqAAAAUgBlADoAIABbAGkAbgBmAGUAcgBuAG8ALQBs AGkAcwB0AF0AIABJAG4AZgBlAHIAbgBvACwAIABQAGwAYQBuADkAIAAvAHMAcgB2ACwAIABhAG4A ZAAgAG0AbwB1AG4AdAAgAC0AOQAAAAAAQABOAABWPofgfsQBHwBaAAEAAAAiAAAATABhAHQAYwBo AGUAcwBhAHIAIABJAG8AbgBrAG8AdgAAAAAAAgFbAAEAAAA/AAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEP VAIAAAAATGF0Y2hlc2FyIElvbmtvdgBTTVRQAGx1Y2hvQGlvbmtvdi5uZXQAAAIBXAABAAAAFgAA AFNNVFA6TFVDSE9ASU9OS09WLk5FVAAAAB8AXQABAAAAIgAAAEwAYQB0AGMAaABlAHMAYQByACAA SQBvAG4AawBvAHYAAAAAAAIBXgABAAAAPwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAExhdGNo ZXNhciBJb25rb3YAU01UUABsdWNob0Bpb25rb3YubmV0AAACAV8AAQAAABYAAABTTVRQOkxVQ0hP QElPTktPVi5ORVQAAAAfAGYAAQAAAAoAAABTAE0AVABQAAAAAAAfAGcAAQAAACIAAABsAHUAYwBo AG8AQABpAG8AbgBrAG8AdgAuAG4AZQB0AAAAAAAfAGgAAQAAAAoAAABTAE0AVABQAAAAAAAfAGkA AQAAACIAAABsAHUAYwBoAG8AQABpAG8AbgBrAG8AdgAuAG4AZQB0AAAAAAAfAHAAAQAAAGIAAABb AGkAbgBmAGUAcgBuAG8ALQBsAGkAcwB0AF0AIABJAG4AZgBlAHIAbgBvACwAIABQAGwAYQBuADkA IAAvAHMAcgB2ACwAIABhAG4AZAAgAG0AbwB1AG4AdAAgAC0AOQAAAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAbAAAAAcR+ 4Vj8XIo0WvN6SHyVqfXRkeOkcgBoTA1NAB8AdAABAAAANgAAAGkAbgBmAGUAcgBuAG8ALQBsAGkA cwB0AEAAdgBpAHQAYQBuAHUAbwB2AGEALgBjAG8AbQAAAAAAHwAaDAEAAAAkAAAAQgBlAG4AagBh AG0AaQBuACAASAB1AG4AdABzAG0AYQBuAAAAHwAdDgEAAAA0AAAAZwByAGkAZAAvAHIAZQBtAG8A dABlAGwAbwBnAG8AbgAgAHQAcgBvAHUAYgBsAGUAcwAAAAIBCRABAAAAaggAAGYIAAAxIAAATFpG dW+oZ+cDAAoAcmNwZzEyNYIyA0NodG1sMQMwPwEDAfcKgAKkA+MCAGNowQrAc2V0MCAHEwKA/xAD AFAEVghVB7IR1Q5RAwHdENcyBgAGwxHVMwRGENlvEusR4wjvCfc7GM8OMDU7EdIMYGMAUAsJAWQz NpMRYAulNCAQAipcDrK9AZBnFPAKoxHjHeg0FPAAPCFET0NUWVAARSBIVE1MIFAAVUJMSUMgIi0g Ly9XM0MhgERUIkQglDMuMiGARU6cIj4e7R6PI8ExOB/wbyCiIw8kHyaQMx2AJXBFfEFEJc0O8Sbv KW8k9DZBDvA8TUVUQQewQTEsYD0iRwnwBJBhdEUFsCIS0E9OVCLQVBMs8AXhRXgQ8W5nZT0GUnYT MS9BAJACICA2wC4wLjYzOTABIv4TKs8lAzc3H/BUSVQUTEUlzjQO8FJlOhQgWwuAZgSRby1soQQA dF0gSTUkLCDgwQtgbjkgL3MvMDZgKQBwZCAEYHUCMCAt6jkkbjUf8C8zTzF/JkVfNJE5IChPJp88 9DURYDwAQk9EWSBkaXL6PT0QcjxgPNMAIQMwP3GcZG8A4D9xCrFccRiw/z9xEPADMD/VEWA8ixzx PY/GZzBgH/BESVY/qQAAM0HnPKk2NEUfQj8xNBUlUUYt0SAAkHplPS4zRQsdU0foLkwQIGpudTWw PyEE8G8vQQmAIDEJwGlkLxjQBGB0ZVUYYGcCIC48izgdgCYwbmJzcAKAP8gnYfMBQEf3IEYAcAGQ NbAN4L4hTm9Pf1CLOwxDVUkFQCJ3UZAgZXgA0HRsbnlWUBEABUBJVlMYYG/SawuAZyACEHI3JFdw 7UypaQVATFNiARAFsC7w+1dwTVFwTSFU70OCAaAIYBkFQHRoLvALYGNrIG5vQDAKsAQQdwWwN2Bh /1ywXPACMA3gLWAvwguAVlCsbS9ODyUhNUShL0mi/z+pP7dGSwHAP7cKomIICoD9JHwwKBEh4ETr YglCf0OP/0SfRa9Gv0fPUk9TX2tfY1//ZG9lf2aPba9or2m/as9r36943iyQNZACQGwu8HADYJ8C YE2wNmBc4AhgZ2hOX89u71B8V3BesG4nBUAu4P8FQFmxLXCAgAIgLTBW0Hz2/1dhEQAvQFsvduNc 4gUQfVDtBUBjBJBRsGZeogeQNyQ/WbEBAQuAhXFW8QWgbW3/N6CFVFZQWbBBsIRTTbOC/792430g NbB9f36PUHxITQF+JwQgfSAH4FjhgXBZsDr/cM9x33Lvc/91D3Yfdy94P3d5T3pfkxdPA6Bc4gGQ cvmA8nN5NbBNsI5/j4+Qn/+Rr5K/k8+U35Xvlv+YD5+PP4rfi++l76b/qA9J4HZj/i9eMpsPnB+d L54/n0+gX/+hb6J/o4+kn7EfqZ+qr7d/h7iPqv83UGIvY3Osj/+tn66vr7+wz7Hfsu+z/7UP/7Yf wn+7H7wvyN/J77x/rAL9LTB0ve++/8APwR/CL8M//8RPxV/Gb8d/0+/Mf82P2k+H21/N314yL2tl eQPQ/89f0G/Rf9KP05/Ur9W/1s//19/Y7+WP3e/e/3CP4c/i3//j7+T/5g/nH+gv6T/qT5jv/Vzx YzWQXnGa//AP8R/yL//zP/RP9V/2b/d/+I//n+yf/+2vBf8HDwgfvX/7v/zP/d///u8I7wEPAh8D LwQ/BU8JP/8KTwh/GA8ZH1DlX1FfUE1N718AGo89EBvZPBnomiSalPUe32cf+j4U7wzvDf8PD/8Q HxofEj8TTxZ/FW8snxpv/xt/7i8k7yX/Jw8oHykvKj9/K08sXzJvLn83hFYwjZFh+QwAby1foFhA fJAdsFzhb4hQil8w71B8VJn+gqBl5zjwVoCIFHF1h5CB8Vii94jPOPKIUHBYYCGw+w8zz/803zXv Nv84DzkfOi87PzxPmUtIIjt8ASHhbjpasA+IgIGGXuJe8XRjcCHUKiGIUGdSMXKG0D7DBUnwLlUS NTAhMzD8MzdGz0ffSO9J/0sPTB//TS9OP09PUF9ad1Im4FJTj6lUkWFpfFBkUoBohzDwZ3VwIlXv Vv9YD1kf/1ovWz9cT11fXm9ff2iPP///QQ8yj2TPZd9m72f/aQ9qHz9rL2w/bU9uW/pjgaBzb/9j MGHT+neIQUZvcr9zz3Tf/3Xvdv94D3kfei97P1EOHoH7U2BSgGNEsD5gUsOFEFMwf37BYpRSgB5A Y5BSwGMGYtJhRNBmdj8wc1NSUuHPjcZTYUT/RgVseWPvgF//gW+Cf4OPhJ+Fr4a/h8+I3/+VX2+f cK9xv5Gfkq+Tv5TP/5Xflu+X/5kPmh89HUPCUjDtPjFwVMAd0GEdsD8wVMDmckSQfwAgZB3wPeDO 0F9C4j7gzzCqUGOgIGPAIN+s0FLgq0BTIZCgP5wPnR/dzhtGq6GPL0YEZj8xrVDmZUSQQ+F5Jx4g jWAeUNthwCIAdX7AY5BurNMMEPE/MCBOdD9vrw9BjkSw+GtzIZ7vn/+hD6Ifoy//pD+lT6Zfp2+o f71Ptd+27/+er7mPup+7r7y/vc++37/v58D/wg/DGy1C+tDGz8ff/8jvyf/LD8wfzS/OP89P0F// 1s/Eb8V/xo/TD9Qf1S/WP3/XT9hf2W/af9uP+W4+QHTZHlBhbJCgq8FmsqNSwHWLMWVSgHe4UFLA uFBwXnD60GNA67GNYGWs0mG2Yn3B7iFkjKDuwS1+YWxja7Ev5mMuq9BDwGY9YyFz3W/efxnK7iFl eM9TIGGgQoF+MG0/4E/hX//ib+N/5I/ln+av57/oz+nf//pv8n/zj+AP9q/3v/jP+d9P+u/7/wnP RXM1OAdBQthPRFn9gApbMgs/DcJCNwdBSFRNTP2AfQEQAAAAHwA1EAEAAAB4AAAAPAA3AEQARAAz ADcAMgAxADgAMQAwADQARQAzADEANAAyADkARQA3ADkARQBCADAAQgBCADEAMwA2ADgAMAAwAEUA MQAxAEMANAA1ADcAQAB2AGEAcgBnAGEAcwAuAG4AdABkAG8AbQAuAGMAdQBwAGQAeAA+AAAAHwBH EAEAAAAeAAAAbQBlAHMAcwBhAGcAZQAvAHIAZgBjADgAMgAyAAAAAAALAPIQAQAAAB8A8xABAAAA PAAAAGcAcgBpAGQA//hyAGUAbQBvAHQAZQBsAG8AZwBvAG4AIAB0AHIAbwB1AGIAbABlAHMALgBF AE0ATAAAAAsA9hAAAAAAQAAHMKJMMYmCgMQBQAAIME7VJEaFgMQBAwDeP+n9AAADAPE/CQQAAB8A +D8BAAAAJAAAAEIAZQBuAGoAYQBtAGkAbgAgAEgAdQBuAHQAcwBtAGEAbgAAAAIB+T8BAAAAVgAA AAAAAADcp0DIwEIQGrS5CAArL+GCAQAAAAAAAAAvTz1DT05DT1JESUEgUE9SVExBTkQvT1U9Q1VQ RFgvQ049UkVDSVBJRU5UUy9DTj1CSFVOVFNNQU4AAAAfAPo/AQAAACoAAABTAHkAcwB0AGUAbQAg AEEAZABtAGkAbgBpAHMAdAByAGEAdABvAHIAAAAAAAIB+z8BAAAAHgAAAAAAAADcp0DIwEIQGrS5 CAArL+GCAQAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAwD9P+QEAAADABlAAAAAAAMAGkAAAAAAAwAdQAAAAAADAB5AAAAA AB8AMEABAAAAFAAAAEIASABVAE4AVABTAE0AQQBOAAAAHwAxQAEAAAAUAAAAQgBIAFUATgBUAFMA TQBBAE4AAAAfADJAAQAAACIAAABsAHUAYwBoAG8AQABpAG8AbgBrAG8AdgAuAG4AZQB0AAAAAAAf ADNAAQAAACIAAABsAHUAYwBoAG8AQABpAG8AbgBrAG8AdgAuAG4AZQB0AAAAAAAfADhAAQAAABQA AABCAEgAVQBOAFQAUwBNAEEATgAAAB8AOUABAAAABAAAAC4AAAALACkAAAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAG EJNGJOIDAAcQLQMAAAMAEBADAAAAAwAREAAAAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABKVVNURElTQ09WRVJFREdS SUQvUkVNT1RFTE9HT05GQU5UQVNUSUNJVFdBU0VYQUNUTFlXSEFUSVdBU0xPT0tJTkdGT1IsQU5E SURJU0NPVkVSRURJVEpVU1RCRUZPUkVJR1JJAAAAAAIBfwABAAAAPAAAADw3REQzNzIxODEwNEUz MTQyOUU3OUVCMEJCMTM2ODAwRTExQzQ1N0B2YXJnYXMubnRkb20uY3VwZHg+AJgp ------_=_NextPart_001_01C48085.462272F8-- From mail.ru!santucco Mon Aug 16 13:06:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mx.kaspersky.com ([212.5.80.5]) by doppio; Mon Aug 16 13:06:28 BST 2004 Received: from mailgate.kaspersky.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with SMTP id 550E924E86 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:30:24 +0400 (MSD) Received: by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP, from userid 99) id 679882552C; Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:30:22 +0400 (MSD) Received: from mx.avp.ru (mx.avp.ru [212.5.80.12]) by mx.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with ESMTP id F0EC1254FD for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:30:21 +0400 (MSD) Received: from moscow.avp.ru ([172.16.11.1]) by mx.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:32:24 +0400 Received: from santucco.avp.ru ([172.16.10.43]) by moscow.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:32:24 +0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:25:43 +0400 From: Santucco Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Linux, build 751) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Aug 2004 11:32:24.0359 (UTC) FILETIME=[B37F1B70:01C48384] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! I had installed glibc 2.3.3 with NPTL on my Gentoo Linux with 2.6.7 kerne= l =20 and Inferno emu hasn't worked properly. I have resolved this trouble by adaptation of MacOSX version of os.c (wit= h =20 POSIX threads) to Linux ( in Linux version os.c is used nonportable =20 system call __clone to start new threads) To tell the truth, I have just stripped down MacOSX's-specific code and =20 that it (almost) :-))). It's working now, but I don't know, how I can test out this code =20 complitely. Has anybody got any ideas? --=20 Best regards, santucco From forsyth Mon Aug 16 22:08:26 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:08:26 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it is nearly always best not to use `Posix threads' if there is a native alternative. frequently Posix threads are not implemented as true processes, but in effect as coroutines, they can add pointless overhead in other implementations, and in general, Inferno's requirements are so small they are overkill in any case. they are used on some platforms where no better way is known, or where the implementation seems acceptable. i have got a 2.6.something kernel freshly installed, so i'll have a look at it. i don't know why __clone is used instead of plain clone, and although google shows the former was acceptable in the past, i wonder if that's part of the problem. there aren't any data structures in the clone interface, so it can't be that. From mail.ru!santucco Tue Aug 17 08:25:14 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mx.kaspersky.com ([212.5.80.5]) by doppio; Tue Aug 17 08:25:14 BST 2004 Received: from mailgate.kaspersky.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with SMTP id DCDEE2551B for ; Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:19:21 +0400 (MSD) Received: by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP, from userid 99) id B98B0255A2; Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:18:52 +0400 (MSD) Received: from mx.avp.ru (mx.avp.ru [212.5.80.12]) by mx.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with ESMTP id B1319256CF for ; Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:18:43 +0400 (MSD) Received: from moscow.avp.ru ([172.16.11.1]) by mx.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:21:42 +0400 Received: from santucco.avp.ru ([172.16.10.43]) by moscow.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:12:03 +0400 Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:05:18 +0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 References: <5e9fd9b45754cc39eb076594fc3184e7@vitanuova.com> From: Santucco Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5e9fd9b45754cc39eb076594fc3184e7@vitanuova.com> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Linux, build 751) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Aug 2004 07:12:03.0015 (UTC) FILETIME=[7EDCED70:01C48429] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:08:26 +0100, C H Forsyth =20 wrote: > > i have got a 2.6.something kernel freshly installed, so i'll have a loo= k > at it. I just want to make the information more exact: Inverno has worked with =20 2.6.x kernels quite good. Problems have appeared when I had installed new glibc-2.3.3 with Native =20 Posix Threads Library (NPTL) support. --=20 Best regards, santucco From mail.ru!santucco Tue Aug 17 11:24:50 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mx.kaspersky.com ([212.5.80.5]) by doppio; Tue Aug 17 11:24:50 BST 2004 Received: from mailgate.kaspersky.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with SMTP id D885F254FF for ; Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:18:57 +0400 (MSD) Received: by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP, from userid 99) id 7DD0E24CDC; Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:18:46 +0400 (MSD) Received: from mx.avp.ru (mx.avp.ru [212.5.80.12]) by mx.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with ESMTP id 4A5A825407 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:18:43 +0400 (MSD) Received: from moscow.avp.ru ([172.16.11.1]) by mx.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:21:43 +0400 Received: from santucco.avp.ru ([172.16.10.43]) by moscow.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:18:41 +0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: FAQ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:11:55 +0400 From: Santucco Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Linux, build 751) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Aug 2004 10:18:41.0093 (UTC) FILETIME=[91700750:01C48443] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! Is there a FAQ list of Inferno mailing list? Thanks --=20 Best regards, santucco From forsyth Wed Aug 18 17:34:39 BST 2004 remote from rapido From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:34:39 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wrfccllumvsnjmspwaznfzbgtw" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wrfccllumvsnjmspwaznfzbgtw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ha ha. i foolishly assumed a c compiler would come with any version of the system (or at least optionally be installable) but not so with Suse Personal. i thought from reading the package it included a development kit. i'll presumably need to get the so-called Professional version tomorrow, although i didn't want all the other stuff that comes with that. i tried downloading packages but it got a bit tedious quite quickly and YaST got a bit confused about things. i was able to run emu enough (and they gave me no compiler but gdb, great, thanks) to suspect that it hangs because something has changed in signal handling or Linux/os.c never did it quite right and now something notices. sorry for the fuss. --upas-wrfccllumvsnjmspwaznfzbgtw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mx.kaspersky.com ([212.5.80.5]) by doppio; Tue Aug 17 08:25:14 BST 2004 Received: from mailgate.kaspersky.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with SMTP id DCDEE2551B for ; Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:19:21 +0400 (MSD) Received: by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP, from userid 99) id B98B0255A2; Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:18:52 +0400 (MSD) Received: from mx.avp.ru (mx.avp.ru [212.5.80.12]) by mx.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with ESMTP id B1319256CF for ; Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:18:43 +0400 (MSD) Received: from moscow.avp.ru ([172.16.11.1]) by mx.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:21:42 +0400 Received: from santucco.avp.ru ([172.16.10.43]) by moscow.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:12:03 +0400 Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:05:18 +0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: <5e9fd9b45754cc39eb076594fc3184e7@vitanuova.com> From: Santucco Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5e9fd9b45754cc39eb076594fc3184e7@vitanuova.com> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Linux, build 751) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Aug 2004 07:12:03.0015 (UTC) FILETIME=[7EDCED70:01C48429] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:08:26 +0100, C H Forsyth =20 wrote: > > i have got a 2.6.something kernel freshly installed, so i'll have a loo= k > at it. I just want to make the information more exact: Inverno has worked with =20 2.6.x kernels quite good. Problems have appeared when I had installed new glibc-2.3.3 with Native =20 Posix Threads Library (NPTL) support. --=20 Best regards, santucco --upas-wrfccllumvsnjmspwaznfzbgtw-- From ionkov.net!lucho Thu Aug 19 12:13:07 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net ([204.127.202.56]) by doppio; Thu Aug 19 12:13:07 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004081911071501200mqieqe>; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:07:15 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 94ECD46224E; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:09:14 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 Message-ID: <20040819110914.GA4989@ionkov.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Hi, What exactly is not working properly. I am using emu on a system with kernel 2.6.5 and glibc 2.3.3 and I don't see any problems. Thanks, Lucho On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 03:25:43PM +0400, Santucco said: > Hello! > > I had installed glibc 2.3.3 with NPTL on my Gentoo Linux with 2.6.7 kernel > and Inferno emu hasn't worked properly. > I have resolved this trouble by adaptation of MacOSX version of os.c (with > POSIX threads) to Linux ( in Linux version os.c is used nonportable > system call __clone to start new threads) > To tell the truth, I have just stripped down MacOSX's-specific code and > that it (almost) :-))). > It's working now, but I don't know, how I can test out this code > complitely. > Has anybody got any ideas? > > -- > Best regards, > santucco From mail.ru!santucco Thu Aug 19 13:24:55 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mx.kaspersky.com ([212.5.80.5]) by doppio; Thu Aug 19 13:24:55 BST 2004 Received: from mailgate.kaspersky.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with SMTP id 344402507B for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:19:03 +0400 (MSD) Received: by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP, from userid 99) id 237E2250CF; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:18:51 +0400 (MSD) Received: from mx.avp.ru (mx.avp.ru [212.5.80.12]) by mx.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with ESMTP id 2C0D424E58 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:18:46 +0400 (MSD) Received: from moscow.avp.ru ([172.16.11.1]) by mx.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:21:49 +0400 Received: from santucco.avp.ru ([172.16.10.43]) by moscow.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:13:18 +0400 Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:06:22 +0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 References: <20040819110914.GA4989@ionkov.net> From: Santucco Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040819110914.GA4989@ionkov.net> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Linux, build 751) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Aug 2004 12:13:18.0125 (UTC) FILETIME=[E94B55D0:01C485E5] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Inferno emu hangs. Sometimes it writes somethink like this - "Panic: double sleep =20 " and dies. Does your glibc use NPTL (Native POSIX Threads Library) or Linuxthreads? = I =20 had compiled glibc 2.3.3 with NPTL support and Inferno has stopped workin= g. I was wrong. I had to write in the subject "Inferno emu on linux with =20 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 with NPTL support" On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:09:14 -0400, Latchesar Ionkov =20 wrote: > Hi, > > What exactly is not working properly. I am using emu on a system with =20 > kernel > 2.6.5 and glibc 2.3.3 and I don't see any problems. > > Thanks, > Lucho > --=20 Best regards, santucco From ericsson.com!bengt.kleberg Thu Aug 19 16:03:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from eagle.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.53]) by doppio; Thu Aug 19 16:03:36 BST 2004 Received: from esealmw143.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by eagle.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id i7JEvhAh028070 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:57:43 +0200 Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by esealmw143.al.sw.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:57:43 +0200 Received: from wsb017.uab.ericsson.se ([134.138.232.116]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id PRJA3NTK; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:57:43 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wsb017.uab.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/client-1.3uab4) id i7JEvhg27398; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:57:43 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <4124BFE7.6010100@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:57:43 +0200 X-Sybari-Trust: b44770a7 74470f8f d874ac8e 00000138 From: Bengt Kleberg User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (X11/20040813) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: installation woes on solaris Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Aug 2004 14:57:43.0302 (UTC) FILETIME=[E165E260:01C485FC] greetings, i beg your indulgence. this is probably covered already but i do not have a list archive. i would like to install inferno from the cd. i have tried to install from the cd (inferno20040527). i do not have root access to the machine i am using. the error i get is: ; sh /cdrom/inferno20040527/install/Solaris-sparc.sh /home/eleberg/private/inferno20040527 install: cannot create inferno root tmp /home/eleberg/private/inferno20040527/tmp: permission denied mv: cannot access /home/eleberg/private/inferno20040527/Solaris/sparc/bin/emu.new if i change the permission on /home/eleberg/private/inferno20040527 to 777 (it is 775) i get another error: installing package /install/FreeBSD/1085669810 installing directory /wrap inst: can't set modes for /n/remote/wrap: not owner installing directory /wrap/FreeBSD inst: can't make directory /n/remote/wrap/FreeBSD: file does not exist install: 2 "Inst":fail: werr mv: cannot access /home/eleberg/private/inferno20040527/Solaris/sparc/bin/emu.new suggestions? bengt From gmail.com!leimy2k Thu Aug 19 16:05:33 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.207]) by doppio; Thu Aug 19 16:05:33 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 75so171462rnl for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.120.28 with SMTP id s28mr131511cwc; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3e1162e604081907594eb4973b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:59:40 -0700 From: David Leimbach Reply-To: David Leimbach To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Postscript Viewer? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Haven't been able to really read the PostScript documentation included with Inferno due to the bad conversion-to-PDF utility included with Mac OS X Panther. It ends up garbled. I've not been able to find a Plan 9 "page" equivalent in Inferno either to read these docs. [spent a few hours over a few days with lookman and others trying to find it]. Can someone point me in the right direction? Also is this mailing list archived anywhere? I looked on vituanuova's site and didn't see it. Thanks in advance! Dave From gmail.com!russcox Thu Aug 19 17:03:17 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]) by doppio; Thu Aug 19 17:03:17 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 73so225256rnk for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.102.15 with SMTP id z15mr810575rnb; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:50:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:50:45 -0400 From: Russ Cox Reply-To: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Postscript Viewer? In-Reply-To: <3e1162e604081907594eb4973b@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3e1162e604081907594eb4973b@mail.gmail.com> Try downloading ghostscript and ghostview for Mac OS X? Aren't there PDFs on the Vita Nuova web site? From gmail.com!knapjack Thu Aug 19 17:59:15 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.197]) by doppio; Thu Aug 19 17:59:15 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 73so228358rnk for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.13.31 with SMTP id 31mr823157rnm; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:26:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c06204081909265c8b696e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:26:42 -0700 From: Jack Johnson Reply-To: Jack Johnson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Postscript Viewer? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3e1162e604081907594eb4973b@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:50:45 -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > Aren't there PDFs on the Vita Nuova web site? Some, and some HTML: http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/docs.html I think the installation guide on the Web site is not the current one, though (though it's close). -Jack From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu Aug 19 18:33:08 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu Aug 19 18:33:08 BST 2004 Message-ID: <4c419a071a377807b1d390af06cafce0@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:28:12 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4124BFE7.6010100@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you shouldn't need root access (i hardly ever install with it on any platform). installing directory /wrap inst: can't set modes for /n/remote/wrap: not owner installing directory /wrap/FreeBSD inst: can't make directory /n/remote/wrap/FreeBSD: file does not exist what mode has /wrap got after that happens, or does /wrap not exist at all? From gmail.com!knapjack Thu Aug 19 21:11:31 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.202]) by doppio; Thu Aug 19 21:11:31 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 73so238643rnk for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.102.15 with SMTP id z15mr810158rnb; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c062040819084917c0921@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:49:01 -0700 From: Jack Johnson Reply-To: Jack Johnson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Postscript Viewer? In-Reply-To: <3e1162e604081907594eb4973b@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3e1162e604081907594eb4973b@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:59:40 -0700, David Leimbach wrote: > Haven't been able to really read the PostScript documentation included > with Inferno due to the bad conversion-to-PDF utility included with > Mac OS X Panther. It ends up garbled. > > I've not been able to find a Plan 9 "page" equivalent in Inferno > either to read these docs. [spent a few hours over a few days with > lookman and others trying to find it]. > > Can someone point me in the right direction? I ran into the same problem, and I think I ended up using ps2pdf on Linux or Plan 9 to convert it and pushed it back to my wife's OSX laptop. I *think* I also found that I could creatively modify some links from Vita Nuova's Web site and get to PDF copies of the current installation guide (though I can't seem to accomplish it now -- I just get the one from 2003). -Jack From gmail.com!leimy2k Thu Aug 19 21:21:21 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.196]) by doppio; Thu Aug 19 21:21:21 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 75so183263rnl for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.122.57 with SMTP id u57mr141962cwc; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3e1162e604081911282f788778@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:28:48 -0700 From: David Leimbach Reply-To: David Leimbach To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Postscript Viewer? In-Reply-To: <6e35c06204081909265c8b696e@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3e1162e604081907594eb4973b@mail.gmail.com> <6e35c06204081909265c8b696e@mail.gmail.com> Ah that's helpful. Don't know how I missed it. Dave On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:26:42 -0700, Jack Johnson wrote: > On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:50:45 -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > Aren't there PDFs on the Vita Nuova web site? > > Some, and some HTML: > > http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/docs.html > > I think the installation guide on the Web site is not the current one, > though (though it's close). > > -Jack > From terzarima.net!forsyth Thu Aug 19 23:40:19 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Thu Aug 19 23:40:19 BST 2004 Message-ID: <4a4920a466e450d4da2857512b03fd82@terzarima.net> From: Charles Forsyth Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 23:33:50 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Postscript Viewer? In-Reply-To: <6e35c062040819084917c0921@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-bvyjzekdylnpmswwmxbnhocetr" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-bvyjzekdylnpmswwmxbnhocetr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the scripts that generate the links aren't foolproof or general enough. i'll try to change them. it's a bit foolish having .pdf files that people can't see! --upas-bvyjzekdylnpmswwmxbnhocetr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Thu Aug 19 21:09:35 BST 2004 Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.202]) by doppio; Thu Aug 19 21:11:31 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 73so238643rnk for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.102.15 with SMTP id z15mr810158rnb; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e35c062040819084917c0921@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:49:01 -0700 From: Jack Johnson To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <3e1162e604081907594eb4973b@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3e1162e604081907594eb4973b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Postscript Viewer? Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:59:40 -0700, David Leimbach wrote: > Haven't been able to really read the PostScript documentation included > with Inferno due to the bad conversion-to-PDF utility included with > Mac OS X Panther. It ends up garbled. > > I've not been able to find a Plan 9 "page" equivalent in Inferno > either to read these docs. [spent a few hours over a few days with > lookman and others trying to find it]. > > Can someone point me in the right direction? I ran into the same problem, and I think I ended up using ps2pdf on Linux or Plan 9 to convert it and pushed it back to my wife's OSX laptop. I *think* I also found that I could creatively modify some links from Vita Nuova's Web site and get to PDF copies of the current installation guide (though I can't seem to accomplish it now -- I just get the one from 2003). -Jack --upas-bvyjzekdylnpmswwmxbnhocetr-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Aug 20 00:11:02 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Aug 20 00:11:02 BST 2004 Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 00:04:34 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wubdfeqblimebqklcforvexwmq" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wubdfeqblimebqklcforvexwmq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit after a vast amount of effort over hours (really) to get Suse Personal converted to Suse Professional, to give me a compiler, i find that the quickest fix is export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.4.21 emu ... as suggested by the README you get at the very end of the long process of updates. just to improve matters, i had to reboot my set-top box during it (it does the cable modem but can't keep the Pace at 1m/bit sometimes). anyhow, that works fine. type emu and the prompt appears. it's nice to see from games/bounce that scheduling has improved. it's also nice that it's clearly something they've changed, not my fault. it's either the different handling of signals or process IDs (apparently). i'll see what i need to do to mend it. --upas-wubdfeqblimebqklcforvexwmq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([62.254.170.97]) by lavoro; Thu Aug 19 13:19:40 BST 2004 Received: from mx.kaspersky.com ([212.5.80.5]) by doppio; Thu Aug 19 13:24:55 BST 2004 Received: from mailgate.kaspersky.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with SMTP id 344402507B for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:19:03 +0400 (MSD) Received: by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP, from userid 99) id 237E2250CF; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:18:51 +0400 (MSD) Received: from mx.avp.ru (mx.avp.ru [212.5.80.12]) by mx.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with ESMTP id 2C0D424E58 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:18:46 +0400 (MSD) Received: from moscow.avp.ru ([172.16.11.1]) by mx.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:21:49 +0400 Received: from santucco.avp.ru ([172.16.10.43]) by moscow.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:13:18 +0400 Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:06:22 +0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: <20040819110914.GA4989@ionkov.net> From: Santucco Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040819110914.GA4989@ionkov.net> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Linux, build 751) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Aug 2004 12:13:18.0125 (UTC) FILETIME=[E94B55D0:01C485E5] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Inferno emu hangs. Sometimes it writes somethink like this - "Panic: double sleep =20 " and dies. Does your glibc use NPTL (Native POSIX Threads Library) or Linuxthreads? = I =20 had compiled glibc 2.3.3 with NPTL support and Inferno has stopped workin= g. I was wrong. I had to write in the subject "Inferno emu on linux with =20 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 with NPTL support" On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:09:14 -0400, Latchesar Ionkov =20 wrote: > Hi, > > What exactly is not working properly. I am using emu on a system with =20 > kernel > 2.6.5 and glibc 2.3.3 and I don't see any problems. > > Thanks, > Lucho > --=20 Best regards, santucco --upas-wubdfeqblimebqklcforvexwmq-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Aug 20 00:22:33 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Aug 20 00:22:33 BST 2004 Message-ID: <59b328c4077674843f28e979da4b7a4e@terzarima.net> From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 00:16:05 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the problem is that in the new regime getpid returns the same value in each clone, which makes me suspect that man 2 clone is out of date, or somehow misleading because i'd expect that behaviour only if CLONE_THREAD were specified, which it isn't. when the LD_ASSUME... is set the pids for the cloned procs are different, and emu works again. From ericsson.com!bengt.kleberg Fri Aug 20 09:51:42 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from eagle.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.53]) by doppio; Fri Aug 20 09:51:42 BST 2004 Received: from esealmw140.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by eagle.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id i7K8jnAh028334 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:45:49 +0200 Received: from esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by esealmw140.al.sw.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:45:48 +0200 Received: from wsb017.uab.ericsson.se ([134.138.232.116]) by esealnt612.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id PRJAT9DA; Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:45:49 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wsb017.uab.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/client-1.3uab4) id i7K8jng28091; Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:45:49 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <4125BA3C.7070002@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:45:48 +0200 X-Sybari-Trust: cd43c288 74470f8f 56fbab6d 00000138 From: Bengt Kleberg User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (X11/20040813) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris References: <4c419a071a377807b1d390af06cafce0@terzarima.net> In-Reply-To: <4c419a071a377807b1d390af06cafce0@terzarima.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2004 08:45:48.0925 (UTC) FILETIME=[1767EAD0:01C48692] Charles Forsyth wrote: > you shouldn't need root access (i hardly ever install with it on any platform). > neither did i for 3;rd edition. > installing directory /wrap > inst: can't set modes for /n/remote/wrap: not owner > installing directory /wrap/FreeBSD > inst: can't make directory /n/remote/wrap/FreeBSD: file does not exist > > what mode has /wrap got after that happens, or does /wrap not exist at all? i assume this is the wrap you want. i have d-rwxrwxr-x M 0 eleberg avall 0 Aug 19 16:54 /home/eleberg/private/inferno20040527/wrap if i change modes to 777 for wrap i get this far: ; sh /cdrom/inferno20040527/install/Solaris-sparc.sh /home/eleberg/private/inferno20040527 installing package /install/FreeBSD/1085669810 installing directory /wrap inst: can't set modes for /n/remote/wrap: not owner installing directory /wrap/FreeBSD inst: can't set modes for /n/remote/wrap/FreeBSD: not owner installing directory /wrap/FreeBSD/1085669810 inst: can't make directory /n/remote/wrap/FreeBSD/1085669810: file does not exist install: 2 "Inst":fail: werr so, presumably i can keep on chmod 777 on all the new directories that gets greated right before the installation fails and then re-install... bengt From ericsson.com!bengt.kleberg Fri Aug 20 10:11:03 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from eagle.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.53]) by doppio; Fri Aug 20 10:11:03 BST 2004 Received: from esealmw142.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.119]) by eagle.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id i7K95AAh001900 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:05:10 +0200 Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by esealmw142.al.sw.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:05:09 +0200 Received: from wsb017.uab.ericsson.se ([134.138.232.116]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id QZMDH884; Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:05:10 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wsb017.uab.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/client-1.3uab4) id i7K95Ag28184; Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:05:10 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <4125BEC6.1000707@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:05:10 +0200 X-Sybari-Trust: 54124007 74470f8f 56fbab6d 00000138 From: Bengt Kleberg User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (X11/20040813) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris References: <4c419a071a377807b1d390af06cafce0@terzarima.net> <4125BA3C.7070002@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <4125BA3C.7070002@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2004 09:05:09.0940 (UTC) FILETIME=[CB6CBF40:01C48694] greetings, to get things rolling a little faster i decided to use inferno.tgz and solaris.tgz from http://www.vitanuova.co.uk/inferno/net_download4T.html. this way i will not have to chmod lots of freebsd things, etc. however, when doing sh /home/eleberg/inferno/install/Solaris-sparc.sh /home/eleberg/private/inferno20040527/ i got a new set of error messages: installing package /install/Solaris/1085669810.gz fatal: cannot open /tmp/wrap.gz.1092992065.2(permission denied) fatal: cannot run archfs inst: no such package found installing package /install/inferno/1085669810.gz fatal: cannot open /tmp/wrap.gz.1092992065.9(permission denied) fatal: cannot run archfs inst: no such package found installation complete bengt, who did remember to use -p for tar From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Aug 20 10:13:59 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Aug 20 10:13:59 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:09:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4125BA3C.7070002@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that sounds a bit tedious, but the pattern is clear. i'll retry it on our solaris machine when i get to the office today. i think i know what might be happening but i don't quite see how, or why it didn't happen to me during my tests before release. From forsyth Sun Aug 22 08:33:07 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:33:07 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno, Plan9 /srv, and mount -9 In-Reply-To: <20040810134707.GA11739@ionkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i've did a fairly small driver in an hour or so yesterday that styx together Plan 9 and Inferno via 9's /srv. might be good for something. it's one of those things i kept meaning to do but didn't. it's still a bit proof-of-concept but once i've tidied it up, i'll put it somewhere people can fetch it, until we do another full distribution (soon!). i need to sort out the increasingly obscure Linux problem first, and check the Solaris installation, amongst other things. From gmail.com!leimy2k Sun Aug 22 18:11:30 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([216.239.56.240]) by doppio; Sun Aug 22 18:11:30 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x17so7647cwb for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2004 10:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.120.24 with SMTP id s24mr22716cwc; Sun, 22 Aug 2004 10:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.100.28 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Aug 2004 10:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3e1162e60408221005c7b7eab@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 10:05:29 -0700 From: David Leimbach Reply-To: David Leimbach To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: API for creating Styx mountable resources on foreign OSes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I read that there used to be a Java/C API software entity that would allow for Inferno to mount resources hosted on other OSes. Did this technology die out completely or is there a replacement? Dave From comcast.net!caerwyn Sun Aug 22 19:27:14 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.202.55]) by doppio; Sun Aug 22 19:27:14 BST 2004 From: comcast.net!caerwyn To: vitanuova.com!inferno-list Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:21:20 +0000 (GMT) X-Comment: Sending client does not conform to RFC822 minimum requirements X-Comment: Date has been added by Maillennium Received: from comcast.net (h000c41af2c71.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.7.243]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004082218212001100btn80e>; Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:21:20 +0000 Subject: Re: [inferno-list] API for creating Styx mountable resources on foreign OSes see /tools/libstyx for a C library for building styx protocol file servers. writing this in java should not be hard. there is also lib9p on plan9. and i think some work was done to create a python library to support 9p. search comp.os.plan9 on google groups. -caerwyn From comcast.net!caerwyn Sun Aug 22 19:45:17 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.202.64]) by doppio; Sun Aug 22 19:45:17 BST 2004 From: comcast.net!caerwyn To: vitanuova.com!inferno-list Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:39:24 +0000 (GMT) X-Comment: Sending client does not conform to RFC822 minimum requirements X-Comment: Date has been added by Maillennium Received: from comcast.net (h000c41af2c71.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.7.243]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004082218392401600jpgtte>; Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:39:24 +0000 Subject: Re: [inferno-list] API for creating Styx mountable resources on foreign OSes hmm. i sent that last mail from Acme's Mailpop3 in Inferno. i got some headers added: X-Comment: Sending client does not conform to RFC822 minimum requirements X-Comment: Date has been added by Maillennium does anyone else you Inferno for reading mail? -caerwyn From forsyth Mon Aug 23 08:58:40 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:58:40 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno, Plan9 /srv, and mount -9 In-Reply-To: <20040810134707.GA11739@ionkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i've put a small (5k) source package at http://www.vitanuova.com/dist/srv9.tgz it contains files to unpack in the inferno root: emu/Plan9/devsrv9.c new driver srv9, driver char is U+20AA (a currency symbol that looked appropriate) emu/Plan9/emu configuration file for emu appl/cmd/9srvfs.b 9srvfs command man/3/srv9 man page srv9(3) man/4/9srvfs man page 9srvfs(4) installation: cd /usr/inferno # for appropriate value of `/usr/inferno' gunzip open(P9PATH+wsys, Sys->ORDWR); --- > fd := sys->open(wsys, Sys->ORDWR); cd appl/cmd; mk rioimport.install start emu console, then: mount {mntgen} /mnt bind '#U*' /n/local bind -c '#โ‚ช' /srv where โ‚ช is the unicode character U+20AA (type alt X 2 0 a a) rioimport wm/wm (you might need to reshape the resulting Plan 9 window.) # or bind '#s' /chan; plumber; rioimport charon or acme for instance From forsyth Mon Aug 23 09:55:49 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:55:49 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris In-Reply-To: <4125BEC6.1000707@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's odd. i finally had a chance to retry it and got: $ /opt/inf/i/install/Solaris-sparc.sh /opt/inf installing package /install/Solaris/1085669810.gz installing directory /wrap installing directory /wrap/Solaris installing directory /wrap/Solaris/1085669810 ... installing directory /usr/inferno/lib installing directory /wrap done installation complete differences? is your file system NFS mounted? From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Mon Aug 23 10:12:40 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Mon Aug 23 10:12:40 BST 2004 Received: from vimp2.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.91]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1BzAmt-0006D7-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:06:47 +0100 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp2.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1BzAmn-0005dG-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:06:41 +0100 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1BzAmm-0002Sr-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:06:40 +0100 Received: from marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i7N96erf002624 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:06:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i7N96eAo017716 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:06:40 +0100 Received: (from jdb@localhost) by marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i7N96eA7017714 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:06:40 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk: jdb set sender to jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk using -f Subject: Re: [inferno-list] API for creating Styx mountable resources on foreign OSes From: Jon Blower To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <3e1162e60408221005c7b7eab@mail.gmail.com> References: <3e1162e60408221005c7b7eab@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1093252000.17696.5.camel@marlow> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:06:40 +0100 X-Scanner: exiscan *1BzAmn-0005dG-00*A3xeukJgQrE* (The University of Reading) Hi all, I'm in the process of developing a pure Java implementation of Styx for a project I'm working on. It seems to work fine but I'm not sure it's quite ready to be unleashed into the community. It's really designed for letting Java programs talk to an Inferno server via Styx (rather than the other way around) but it might help. (I would imagine that one could quite feasibly create a Styx server using it.) >From the Java point of view, the library implements a StyxFileInputStream and StyxFileOutputStream that inherit from java.io.InputStream and java.io.OutputStream respectively. This makes reading from and writing to files on a Styx server identical to any other kind of file/stream I/O in Java. If anyone's interested, I can post the current (alpha) version of the library somewhere as long as it's appreciated that it's only an early version (and not all Styx commands are implemented yet). Cheers, Jon On Sun, 2004-08-22 at 18:05, David Leimbach wrote: > I read that there used to be a Java/C API software entity that would > allow for Inferno to mount resources hosted on other OSes. > > Did this technology die out completely or is there a replacement? > > Dave -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From ericsson.com!bengt.kleberg Mon Aug 23 12:09:29 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from eagle.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.53]) by doppio; Mon Aug 23 12:09:29 BST 2004 Received: from esealmw143.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by eagle.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id i7NB3ZAh009014 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:03:35 +0200 Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by esealmw143.al.sw.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:03:35 +0200 Received: from wsb017.uab.ericsson.se ([134.138.232.116]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id QZMD6ZCB; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:03:35 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wsb017.uab.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/client-1.3uab4) id i7NB3Zg01420; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:03:35 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <4129CF07.6050306@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:03:35 +0200 X-Sybari-Trust: 7282bf96 74470f8f c91a2208 00000138 From: Bengt Kleberg User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (X11/20040813) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Aug 2004 11:03:35.0651 (UTC) FILETIME=[D5FF7330:01C48900] C H Forsyth wrote: > it's odd. i finally had a chance to retry it and got: > > $ /opt/inf/i/install/Solaris-sparc.sh /opt/inf > installing package /install/Solaris/1085669810.gz > installing directory /wrap > installing directory /wrap/Solaris > installing directory /wrap/Solaris/1085669810 > ... > installing directory /usr/inferno/lib > installing directory /wrap > done > installation complete is this a cd install or a ''download bundles'' install? i ask since my cd install started with freebsd, not solaris. > differences? is your file system NFS mounted? yes, my home directory is nfs mounted. the cd is mounted directly/locally via ''removable media manager'', a tool in the ''files'' part of the cde toolbar. bengt From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon Aug 23 12:32:04 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Mon Aug 23 12:32:04 BST 2004 Message-ID: <7532dde494b6cd1178e3b7f2ec45513c@terzarima.net> From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:25:13 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris In-Reply-To: <4129CF07.6050306@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i used the packages we put on the web site. i limited it to inferno.tgz and Solaris.tgz, since i thought that would be enough for a test. perhaps i'll try a CD From ericsson.com!bengt.kleberg Mon Aug 23 13:06:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from eagle.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.53]) by doppio; Mon Aug 23 13:06:27 BST 2004 Received: from esealmw140.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by eagle.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id i7NC0XAh026235 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:00:33 +0200 Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by esealmw140.al.sw.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:00:33 +0200 Received: from wsb017.uab.ericsson.se ([134.138.232.116]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id QMT56SPL; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:00:33 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wsb017.uab.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/client-1.3uab4) id i7NC0Xg01503; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:00:33 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <4129DC61.9090305@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:00:33 +0200 X-Sybari-Trust: 9abd08ea 74470f8f c91a2208 00000138 From: Bengt Kleberg User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (X11/20040813) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris References: <7532dde494b6cd1178e3b7f2ec45513c@terzarima.net> In-Reply-To: <7532dde494b6cd1178e3b7f2ec45513c@terzarima.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Aug 2004 12:00:33.0444 (UTC) FILETIME=[CB294640:01C48908] Charles Forsyth wrote: > i used the packages we put on the web site. > i limited it to inferno.tgz and Solaris.tgz, since > i thought that would be enough for a test. yes it is enough for a test. it fails, too. if i install from the ''download'' the error/message is different (not about freebsd): sh /home/eleberg/inferno/install/Solaris-sparc.sh /home/eleberg/private/inferno20040527 installing package /install/Solaris/1085669810.gz installing directory /wrap inst: can't set modes for /n/remote/wrap: not owner installing directory /wrap/Solaris inst: can't make directory /n/remote/wrap/Solaris: file does not exist install: 2 "Inst":fail: werr after this failure the contents of the install target directory are: --rw-rw-r-- M 0 eleberg avall 11831 Aug 23 13:52 LICENCE d-rwxrwxr-x M 0 eleberg avall 0 Aug 23 13:51 tmp d-rwxrwxr-x M 0 eleberg avall 0 Aug 23 13:51 wrap > perhaps i'll try a CD it does not really matter to me. i can survive with installing from the download. whatever works... currently that is neither cd nor download. if it is not possible for you to reproduce this, i suggest we forget about it until a paying customer stumbles upon the same problem. bengt From csc.com!cjones83 Mon Aug 23 14:32:44 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Mon Aug 23 14:32:44 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i7NDQoTf017988 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:26:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:27:07 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 08/23/2004 09:26:06 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII i have seen this before, on plan9. that was from trying to load a new distribution over an old one and i had wrong permissions, for various reasons. not until i got all the group assignments correct did it work. so here are the dumb questions. who are you logged in as? what are the solaris permissions on the target directory, including any ACLs? -caerwyn From forsyth Mon Aug 23 14:40:39 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris From: C H Forsyth Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:40:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4129DC61.9090305@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>if it is not possible for you to reproduce this, i suggest we forget >>about it until a paying customer stumbles upon the same problem. unfortunately, i find it's rare that there's only ever one person with this sort of problem (it can happen owing to some peculiar configuration, but that is rare). we really do want people to be able to use the downloads, so such problems with Solaris, as with the Linux NPTL, need to be understood, even if they can't for some reason be solved. can you easily see what the mount and export options are for the relevant NFS mount(s)? actually, as i was typing this in, i had a look at devfs-posix.c, having noticed that the diagnostic was `not owner', and thus one of ours (from devfs-posix.c). i suspect the problem is that getpwent isn't able to load a sufficient set of user names to build the name/user-id map. are you using NIS or NIS+ (or an alternative to them)? my solaris system has all the users in the file (as it happens), but getpwent used to cope if NIS/NIS+ were in use and the nsswitch was set up appropriately. From forsyth Mon Aug 23 14:49:42 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris From: C H Forsyth Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:49:42 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4129DC61.9090305@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit perhaps this also has got something to do with it: Use of the enumeration interfaces getpwent() and getpwent_r() is discouraged; enumeration is supported for the passwd file, NIS, and NIS+, but in general is not efficient and may not be supported for all database sources. The semantics of enumeration are discussed further in nsswitch.conf(4). at some point i'll see if i can recode it to avoid using them. it shouldn't be too hard but i need an hour or so of peace & quiet. meanwhile, if NIS/NIS+ is the problem, or perhaps you're using LDAP, you might be able to set it up to get getpwent etc to work temporarily, or perhaps add your the name/uid mapping for just your name to /etc/passwd. From csc.com!cjones83 Mon Aug 23 16:40:47 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Mon Aug 23 16:40:47 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i7NFYrEf002549 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:34:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: Re: [inferno-list] API for creating Styx mountable resources on foreign OSes To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:35:09 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 08/23/2004 11:34:09 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > If anyone's interested, I can post the current (alpha) version of the > library somewhere as long as it's appreciated that it's only an early yes please. i'm interested. From ericsson.com!bengt.kleberg Tue Aug 24 09:55:34 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from penguin.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.47]) by doppio; Tue Aug 24 09:55:34 BST 2004 Received: from esealmw142.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.119]) by penguin.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id i7O8aZlU008777 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:36:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by esealmw142.al.sw.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:36:36 +0200 Received: from wsb017.uab.ericsson.se ([134.138.232.116]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id QMT614NW; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:36:33 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wsb017.uab.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/client-1.3uab4) id i7O8aXg02080; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:36:33 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <412AFE11.9000704@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:36:33 +0200 X-Sybari-Trust: 7caeb434 74470f8f ba33f82f 00000138 From: Bengt Kleberg User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (X11/20040813) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Aug 2004 08:36:36.0033 (UTC) FILETIME=[77824B10:01C489B5] Caerwyn B Jones wrote: ...deleted > so here are the dumb questions. not dumb to me. > who are you logged in as? ; whoami eleberg > what are the solaris permissions on the target directory, > including any ACLs? ; ls -ld d-rwxrwxrwx M 0 eleberg avall 0 Aug 23 13:52 . ; getfacl . # file: . # owner: eleberg # group: avall user::rwx group::rwx #effective:rwx mask:rwx other:rwx hope this helps. notew that i have manually changed the target directory from 775 to 777. if i create a directory it gets 775. to avoid having this influencing the install i do ''umask 0'' before installing. i do not know if it helps with anything. bengt From ericsson.com!bengt.kleberg Tue Aug 24 13:55:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from eagle.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.53]) by doppio; Tue Aug 24 13:55:27 BST 2004 Received: from esealmw142.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.119]) by eagle.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id i7OCnXAh026366 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:49:33 +0200 Received: from esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.121]) by esealmw142.al.sw.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:49:32 +0200 Received: from wsb017.uab.ericsson.se ([134.138.232.116]) by esealnt611.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id QMT6HYFD; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:49:33 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wsb017.uab.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/client-1.3uab4) id i7OCnXg02837; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:49:33 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <412B395C.40103@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:49:32 +0200 X-Sybari-Trust: e17781a8 74470f8f ba33f82f 00000138 From: Bengt Kleberg User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (X11/20040813) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris References: <501cf15058fb6721b0a2f9f19c0a57ca@vitanuova.com> In-Reply-To: <501cf15058fb6721b0a2f9f19c0a57ca@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Aug 2004 12:49:32.0893 (UTC) FILETIME=[CD9F58D0:01C489D8] C H Forsyth wrote: ...deleted > we really do want people to be able to use the downloads, > so such problems with Solaris, as with the Linux NPTL, need to be understood, > even if they can't for some reason be solved. > if i can be of help i would be happy to conduct any tests within my power (normal user, not root). > can you easily see what the mount and export options are for the relevant NFS mount(s)? > etc/mnttab: cbea2:/vol/vol0209/unix-home/b/eleberg /home/eleberg nfs rw,dev=41419c9 1087276389 i am not allowed to login on cbea2, and have yet to find out the export options some other way? > actually, as i was typing this in, i had a look at devfs-posix.c, having noticed > that the diagnostic was `not owner', and thus one of ours (from devfs-posix.c). > i suspect the problem is that getpwent isn't able to load a sufficient set of user names > to build the name/user-id map. is this the c/unix getpwent? i could run it for you directly and see what kind of answers that would give. ok? > are you using NIS or NIS+ (or an alternative to them)? > my solaris system has all the users in the file (as it happens), but getpwent > used to cope if NIS/NIS+ were in use and the nsswitch was set up appropriately. /etc/nsswitch.conf: passwd: files nisplus group: files nisplus automount: files nisplus (is this enough?) /etc/{passwd,group,auto_master,auto_home} has no mention of eleberg (that is me) and all point to nisplus. when i try top look at the nisplus tables i get: ; niscat auto_home.org_dir auto_home.org_dir: NIS+ servers unreachable. so i am doing something wrong here... bengt From ericsson.com!bengt.kleberg Tue Aug 24 14:11:05 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from eagle.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.53]) by doppio; Tue Aug 24 14:11:05 BST 2004 Received: from esealmw143.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.118]) by eagle.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id i7OD5BAh031978 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:05:11 +0200 Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by esealmw143.al.sw.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:05:11 +0200 Received: from wsb017.uab.ericsson.se ([134.138.232.116]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id QZM1GTSS; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:05:11 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wsb017.uab.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/client-1.3uab4) id i7OD5Bg02857; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:05:11 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <412B3D07.4090506@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:05:11 +0200 X-Sybari-Trust: 8a301f89 74470f8f ba33f82f 00000138 From: Bengt Kleberg User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (X11/20040813) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris References: <8d7c3763b5f27339f5da2b0f8403c57d@vitanuova.com> In-Reply-To: <8d7c3763b5f27339f5da2b0f8403c57d@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Aug 2004 13:05:11.0455 (UTC) FILETIME=[FD0C8AF0:01C489DA] C H Forsyth wrote: > perhaps this also has got something to do with it: > > Use of the enumeration interfaces getpwent() and > getpwent_r() is discouraged; enumeration is supported for > the passwd file, NIS, and NIS+, but in general is not > efficient and may not be supported for all database sources. > The semantics of enumeration are discussed further in > nsswitch.conf(4). > > at some point i'll see if i can recode it to avoid using them. > it shouldn't be too hard but i need an hour or so of peace & quiet. > you could sent the c(?) code to me, and i could have a look. it will take me more than an hour, but i do have peace & quiet. tomorrow, that is. > meanwhile, if NIS/NIS+ is the problem, or perhaps you're using LDAP, you might be able to > set it up to get getpwent etc to work temporarily, or perhaps > add your the name/uid mapping for just your name to /etc/passwd. unfortunatly i am unable to change things that require super user privileges. bengt From forsyth Tue Aug 24 15:33:21 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:33:21 +0100 In-Reply-To: <412B395C.40103@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>when i try top look at the nisplus tables i get: >>; niscat auto_home.org_dir >>auto_home.org_dir: NIS+ servers unreachable. it might be that's the underlying reason the getpw functions are failing although they (normally) ought to work, even though they might not be recommended. perhaps the configuration on your client stating where the nisplus servers are is incorrect? From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Tue Aug 24 18:12:55 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Tue Aug 24 18:12:55 BST 2004 Received: from vimp1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.90]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1BzelB-0004wF-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:07:01 +0100 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1Bzel6-0002Ce-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:06:56 +0100 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1Bzel6-0001wV-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:06:56 +0100 Received: from marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i7OH6trf028110 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:06:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i7OH6tpS004615 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:06:55 +0100 Received: (from jdb@localhost) by marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i7OH6t0P004613 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:06:55 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: marlow.nerc-essc.ac.uk: jdb set sender to jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk using -f Subject: Java implementation of Styx From: Jon Blower To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1093367215.2757.20.camel@marlow> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:06:55 +0100 X-Scanner: exiscan *1Bzel6-0002Ce-00*hi9WEAQCBms* (The University of Reading) Hi all, As I've mentioned before, I've created an experimental implementation of the Styx protocol in Java. Please see our Wiki site at http://www.resc.rdg.ac.uk/twiki/bin/view/Resc/JavaStyxLibrary. Feel free to download and use, but do so at your own risk! It hasn't been properly tested and there are several features missing. Perhaps if enough people are interested, this might turn into a more formal thing (perhaps a SourceForge project) to which the community can contribute. Regards, Jon On Mon, 2004-08-23 at 16:35, Caerwyn B Jones wrote: > > > > If anyone's interested, I can post the current (alpha) version of the > > library somewhere as long as it's appreciated that it's only an early > > yes please. i'm interested. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From ionkov.net!lucho Tue Aug 24 19:47:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net ([216.148.227.85]) by doppio; Tue Aug 24 19:47:20 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <20040824184124014007sdqte>; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:41:25 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 6A737366524; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:43:38 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 Message-ID: <20040824184338.GA9042@ionkov.net> References: <59b328c4077674843f28e979da4b7a4e@terzarima.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <59b328c4077674843f28e979da4b7a4e@terzarima.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i I have Fedora Core 2 on my PC and the glibc version FC2 comes with (2.3.3-200405070341) caches the value of getpid() :)) The file that has the code is nptl/sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/getpid.c. There is not getpid.c file in the final glibc-2.3.3 version. I don't know if SuSE comes with the same glibc version, or there are other problems. If it is the same, IMHO the best workaround is LD_ASSUME_KERNEL. PS. emu was working for me, because I had LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5 left in my .profile from the time java didn't work on 2.4 kernels :) Thanks, Lucho On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 12:16:05AM +0100, Charles Forsyth said: > the problem is that in the new regime getpid returns the > same value in each clone, which makes me suspect that man 2 clone > is out of date, or somehow misleading because i'd expect that behaviour > only if CLONE_THREAD were specified, which it isn't. > when the LD_ASSUME... is set the pids for the cloned procs are different, > and emu works again. From ionkov.net!lucho Tue Aug 24 19:49:09 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.202.64]) by doppio; Tue Aug 24 19:49:09 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2004082418431401600jq0gve>; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:43:15 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 403FC366524; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:45:19 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno, Plan9 /srv, and mount -9 Message-ID: <20040824184519.GA9098@ionkov.net> References: <20040810134707.GA11739@ionkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Thanks! rioimport wm/wm is working. I am having problems running rioimport charon, but I'll check what is wrong later. Thanks again, Lucho On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 08:58:40AM +0100, C H Forsyth said: > i've put a small (5k) source package at > http://www.vitanuova.com/dist/srv9.tgz > > it contains files to unpack in the inferno root: > > emu/Plan9/devsrv9.c > new driver srv9, driver char is U+20AA (a currency symbol that looked appropriate) > emu/Plan9/emu > configuration file for emu > appl/cmd/9srvfs.b > 9srvfs command > man/3/srv9 > man page srv9(3) > man/4/9srvfs > man page 9srvfs(4) > > installation: > cd /usr/inferno # for appropriate value of `/usr/inferno' > gunzip cd emu/Plan9 > mk safeinstall > cd ../../appl/cmd > mk 9srvfs.install # you might add 9srvfs.dis to the list in mkfile > > i haven't yet fully checked the driver code, but it seemed adequate in > preliminary testing. > it probably needs to manipulate iounit at various points > to avoid fragmentation. > > one small known error is that ls -l /srv after mounting shows > device character 's' (from Plan 9) rather than U+20AA. > it would only affect attempts to bind or mount on the service files > so it shouldn't cause any trouble in practice. > the code that can fix that is buried in another file and > changing that as well would make it harder to provide the changes this way. > > a small change to rioimport (not enough, but good for fun): > > diff /n/dump/2004/0823/usr/inferno/appl/cmd/rioimport.b /usr/inferno/appl/cmd/rioimport.b > 399c399 > < fd := sys->open(P9PATH+wsys, Sys->ORDWR); > --- > > fd := sys->open(wsys, Sys->ORDWR); > > cd appl/cmd; mk rioimport.install > > start emu console, then: > > mount {mntgen} /mnt > bind '#U*' /n/local > bind -c '#???' /srv where ??? is the unicode character U+20AA (type alt X 2 0 a a) > rioimport wm/wm > > (you might need to reshape the resulting Plan 9 window.) > > # or bind '#s' /chan; plumber; rioimport charon or acme for instance From terzarima.net!forsyth Tue Aug 24 21:06:37 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Tue Aug 24 21:06:37 BST 2004 Message-ID: <781e07126f976f674fc5a4e558b4b8b4@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno, Plan9 /srv, and mount -9 From: Charles Forsyth Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:02:16 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040824184519.GA9098@ionkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> rioimport charon mount -bc {mntgen} /mnt bind -c '#U*' /n/local bind -c '#โ‚ช' /srv rioimport charon does work for me, to some extent, but perhaps it's the `some' on which you were remarking! i suppose it's like Dr Johnson's comment on a dog walking (originally regarding a woman's preaching, but that's probably impolitic today): Sir, it is not well done, but the wonder is that it is done at all. actually, had i taken a little time before to think what was needed to do it, i'd have done it ages ago. roger pointed out that 9srvfs often isn't needed: just use sh's <> (which i'd forgotten it had): export /env <>/srv/infenv From terzarima.net!forsyth Tue Aug 24 21:33:51 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Tue Aug 24 21:33:51 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 From: Charles Forsyth Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:29:31 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040824184338.GA9042@ionkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i am heartily grateful. i see: ``faster getpid() in in NTPL builds''. the thing that confused me was indeed that cache: i'd read the kernel source code and couldn't see how getpid() [the system call] could possible fail to deliver the right value. i'd made the mistake of loading and reading the kernel source but not the library. that was because of YaST (don't ask, i shall quietly bang my head on the table). in the final days of unix's degeneracy, various people changed it to cache all manner of sys call results `to speed things up' in benchmarks. i believe one of those was getpid(). (i once jokingly suggested caching the result of time() and no doubt it was tried. i suppose it saved a few cycles, although given the sluggishness of Suse 9.1 on my 1.2Ghz 128Mb machine, i can't help thinking that perhaps the time would be better spent eliminating fat elsewhere. (http://www.caldo.demon.co.uk/doc/taste.pdf to see that the trend was obvious years ago.) i'll add the LD_ASSUME to the Linux script for the time being, or invoke the system call directly. From mail.ru!santucco Wed Aug 25 08:34:00 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mx.kaspersky.com ([212.5.80.5]) by doppio; Wed Aug 25 08:34:00 BST 2004 Received: from mailgate.kaspersky.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with SMTP id EED5024CC3 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:28:05 +0400 (MSD) Received: by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP, from userid 99) id 84A7524B8E; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:28:04 +0400 (MSD) Received: from mx.avp.ru (mx.avp.ru [212.5.80.12]) by mx.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with ESMTP id 0E86D24B8A for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:28:04 +0400 (MSD) Received: from moscow.avp.ru ([172.16.11.1]) by mx.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:30:55 +0400 Received: from santucco.avp.ru ([172.16.10.43]) by moscow.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:30:55 +0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 References: <59b328c4077674843f28e979da4b7a4e@terzarima.net> <20040824184338.GA9042@ionkov.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:23:35 +0400 From: "Alexander Sychev" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20040824184338.GA9042@ionkov.net> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Linux, build 751) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Aug 2004 07:30:55.0109 (UTC) FILETIME=[74F2C350:01C48A75] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! I have got Gentoo Linux with glibc-2.3.3.20040420-r1 and the workaround =20 with LD_ASSUME_KERNEL is not working. Inferno emu writes a quite strange error: "emu: error while loading shared libraries: libm.so.6: cannot open shar= ed =20 object file: No such file or directory", but libm.so.6 is cached by ldconfig and "ldd emu" writes all dependencies= =20 are resolved. I'm going to wait for more recent version of glibc package. Now I'm using pthread version of Inferno emu under Linux. On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:43:38 -0400, Latchesar Ionkov =20 wrote: > I have Fedora Core 2 on my PC and the glibc version FC2 comes with > (2.3.3-200405070341) caches the value of getpid() :)) The file that has= =20 > the > code is nptl/sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/getpid.c. > > There is not getpid.c file in the final glibc-2.3.3 version. > > I don't know if SuSE comes with the same glibc version, or there are =20 > other > problems. If it is the same, IMHO the best workaround is =20 > LD_ASSUME_KERNEL. > > PS. emu was working for me, because I had LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=3D2.2.5 left= in =20 > my > .profile from the time java didn't work on 2.4 kernels :) > > Thanks, > Lucho > > On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 12:16:05AM +0100, Charles Forsyth said: --=20 Best regards, santucco From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed Aug 25 08:45:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed Aug 25 08:45:36 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:42:45 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>I have got Gentoo Linux with glibc-2.3.3.20040420-r1 and the workaround is there a program to tell which versions of a library are actually installed? From ericsson.com!bengt.kleberg Wed Aug 25 09:16:05 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from penguin.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.47]) by doppio; Wed Aug 25 09:16:05 BST 2004 Received: from esealmw142.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.119]) by penguin.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id i7P8ABlU015488 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:10:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by esealmw142.al.sw.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:10:10 +0200 Received: from wsb017.uab.ericsson.se ([134.138.232.116]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id QZM13GN8; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:10:10 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wsb017.uab.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/client-1.3uab4) id i7P8AAg03418; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:10:10 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <412C4962.4030604@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:10:10 +0200 X-Sybari-Trust: 6ff70734 74470f8f 7699f8b1 00000138 From: Bengt Kleberg User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (X11/20040813) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris References: <13e6b7c43045d0404b7cbbd67427aeeb@vitanuova.com> In-Reply-To: <13e6b7c43045d0404b7cbbd67427aeeb@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Aug 2004 08:10:10.0927 (UTC) FILETIME=[F1200FF0:01C48A7A] C H Forsyth wrote: >>>when i try top look at the nisplus tables i get: >>>; niscat auto_home.org_dir >>>auto_home.org_dir: NIS+ servers unreachable. > > > it might be that's the underlying reason the getpw functions are failing > although they (normally) ought to work, even though they > might not be recommended. you are correct in this. getpwent() only returns the contents of /etc/passwd. (it was also very slow. perhaps timing out waiting for nisplus?). > perhaps the configuration on your client stating where the > nisplus servers are is incorrect? how does my client know who i am if it can not get hold of the nisplus servers? (that was rethorical, you are not supposed to know). i think it is safe to assume that the installation fails due to the fact that getpwent() does not find my user(id). now i have to answer the quesiton why this is the case, and how all other programs manage to find my user(id). bengt From mail.ru!santucco Wed Aug 25 10:03:08 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mx.kaspersky.com ([212.5.80.5]) by doppio; Wed Aug 25 10:03:08 BST 2004 Received: from mailgate.kaspersky.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with SMTP id 1C1BE24B23 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:57:14 +0400 (MSD) Received: by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP, from userid 99) id EE4B824D04; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:57:12 +0400 (MSD) Received: from mx.avp.ru (mx.avp.ru [212.5.80.12]) by mx.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with ESMTP id 7E6CE24BFC for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:57:12 +0400 (MSD) Received: from moscow.avp.ru ([172.16.11.1]) by mx.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:00:22 +0400 Received: from santucco.avp.ru ([172.16.10.43]) by moscow.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:00:22 +0400 Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:53:02 +0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 References: From: "Alexander Sychev" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Linux, build 751) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Aug 2004 09:00:22.0484 (UTC) FILETIME=[F4273140:01C48A81] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:42:45 +0100, Charles Forsyth =20 wrote: >>> I have got Gentoo Linux with glibc-2.3.3.20040420-r1 and the workarou= nd > > is there a program to tell which versions of a library are actually =20 > installed? > > There is a packages query tool. ------------------ #epm -qi glibc Name : glibc Version : 2.3.3.20040420 Release : 1 Slot: 2.2 Install date: Thu Aug 12 15:40:57 2004 Build Host: i686-pc-linux-gnu Group : sys-libs License: LGPL-2 Size : 66356206 Packager : tseng URL : http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/libc.html Description : GNU libc6 (also called glibc2) C library ------------------ As far, as I can see in a glibc package script, this is the glibc-2.3.2 =20 library plus a glibc-2.3.3-20040420 branch update patch. I don't know, why Gentoo developers didn't use the official released =20 glibc-2.3.3 source package. --=20 Best regards, santucco From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed Aug 25 10:20:55 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed Aug 25 10:20:55 BST 2004 Message-ID: <2459460213ef7a59c1d9a76e41c4d16f@terzarima.net> From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:13:53 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit in emu/Linux/os.c, after the last include, try adding these lines: #include #define getpid() syscall(SYS_getpid) it works for me... and assuming the system call numbers don't change, it might even be portable across Linux systems. It is Unix. It is possible to overcome any number of these bogus features. -pjw (Plan 9 fortune) From terzarima.net!forsyth Wed Aug 25 10:22:40 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Wed Aug 25 10:22:40 BST 2004 Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:15:39 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>There is a packages query tool. >>------------------ >>#epm -qi glibc would i be right in thinking that the epm command might be distribution-specific? From ericsson.com!bengt.kleberg Wed Aug 25 10:50:06 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from albatross.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.49]) by doppio; Wed Aug 25 10:50:06 BST 2004 Received: from esealmw142.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.119]) by albatross.ericsson.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/WIREfire-1.8b) with ESMTP id i7P9iBWR029316 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:44:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: from esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.125]) by esealmw142.al.sw.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:44:11 +0200 Received: from wsb017.uab.ericsson.se ([134.138.232.116]) by esealnt613.al.sw.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id QZM1PDK7; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:44:11 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wsb017.uab.ericsson.se (8.10.2+Sun/client-1.3uab4) id i7P9iB701306; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:44:11 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <412C5F6B.3030105@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:44:11 +0200 X-Sybari-Trust: e7178b0e 74470f8f 7699f8b1 00000138 From: Bengt Kleberg User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (X11/20040813) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] installation woes on solaris References: <13e6b7c43045d0404b7cbbd67427aeeb@vitanuova.com> In-Reply-To: <13e6b7c43045d0404b7cbbd67427aeeb@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Aug 2004 09:44:11.0655 (UTC) FILETIME=[1342D970:01C48A88] C H Forsyth wrote: ...deleted > perhaps the configuration on your client stating where the > nisplus servers are is incorrect? the problem has been solved. inferno has been successfully installed. the sysadm (outsourced to hp, but they still know a thing or two about solaris :-) explained that my clearcase view was hanging/interfering with nisplus. after a reboot i have contact with nisplus again. nobody has been able to explain why everything else ()ie, not installing inferno) worked without contact with nisplus servers). bengt From mail.ru!santucco Wed Aug 25 11:29:55 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mx.kaspersky.com ([212.5.80.5]) by doppio; Wed Aug 25 11:29:55 BST 2004 Received: from mailgate.kaspersky.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with SMTP id 5D4E124752 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:24:01 +0400 (MSD) Received: by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP, from userid 99) id C29C4251C8; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:23:45 +0400 (MSD) Received: from mx.avp.ru (mx.avp.ru [212.5.80.12]) by mx.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with ESMTP id EED4B24FD9 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:23:39 +0400 (MSD) Received: from moscow.avp.ru ([172.16.11.1]) by mx.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:26:55 +0400 Received: from santucco.avp.ru ([172.16.10.43]) by moscow.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:17:43 +0400 Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:10:23 +0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 References: From: "Alexander Sychev" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Linux, build 751) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Aug 2004 10:17:43.0328 (UTC) FILETIME=[C24FCA00:01C48A8C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:15:39 +0100, Charles Forsyth =20 wrote: >>> There is a packages query tool. >>> ------------------ >>> #epm -qi glibc > > would i be right in thinking that the epm command might be =20 > distribution-specific? > Yes, sure :-) In Gentoo Linux it is just a Perl script provides a Gentoo query tool for= =20 users familiar with Red Hat's "rpm" package manager. I don't know how to ask a glibc version directly. --=20 Best regards, santucco From mail.ru!santucco Wed Aug 25 11:29:57 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mx.kaspersky.com ([212.5.80.5]) by doppio; Wed Aug 25 11:29:57 BST 2004 Received: from mailgate.kaspersky.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with SMTP id 1D62324B58 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:24:03 +0400 (MSD) Received: by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP, from userid 99) id D2541251CE; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:23:45 +0400 (MSD) Received: from mx.avp.ru (mx.avp.ru [212.5.80.12]) by mx.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with ESMTP id 06C9725055 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:23:40 +0400 (MSD) Received: from moscow.avp.ru ([172.16.11.1]) by mx.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:26:55 +0400 Received: from santucco.avp.ru ([172.16.10.43]) by moscow.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:19:03 +0400 Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:11:43 +0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 References: <2459460213ef7a59c1d9a76e41c4d16f@terzarima.net> From: "Alexander Sychev" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2459460213ef7a59c1d9a76e41c4d16f@terzarima.net> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Linux, build 751) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Aug 2004 10:19:03.0406 (UTC) FILETIME=[F20AB8E0:01C48A8C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:13:53 +0100, Charles Forsyth =20 wrote: > in emu/Linux/os.c, after the last include, try adding these lines: > > #include > #define getpid() syscall(SYS_getpid) > > it works for me... and assuming the system call numbers don't change, i= t =20 > might even be > portable across Linux systems. > > It is Unix. It is possible to overcome any number of these bogus =20 > features. -pjw > (Plan 9 fortune) > It really works, thanks a lot :-)! --=20 Best regards, santucco From ionkov.net!lucho Wed Aug 25 12:09:19 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.198.35]) by doppio; Wed Aug 25 12:09:19 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2004082511032401300r9jnme>; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:03:24 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id B9AF9366524; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:05:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:05:39 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno emu on linux with 2.6.7 kernel and glibc 2.3.3 Message-ID: <20040825110539.GA12239@ionkov.net> References: <2459460213ef7a59c1d9a76e41c4d16f@terzarima.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2459460213ef7a59c1d9a76e41c4d16f@terzarima.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i On Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 10:13:53AM +0100, Charles Forsyth said: > in emu/Linux/os.c, after the last include, try adding these lines: > > #include > #define getpid() syscall(SYS_getpid) > > it works for me... and assuming the system call numbers don't change, it might even be > portable across Linux systems. > > It is Unix. It is possible to overcome any number of these bogus features. -pjw > (Plan 9 fortune) Just want to mention (before I forget) something else that might cause problems in the future. IA64 version of the kernel deprecates clone syscall and introduces clone2 :) If somebody complains about emu not working on IA64, I would suspect the problem to be with the amazing consistency of Linux system calls... Thanks, Lucho From rog Wed Aug 25 13:07:18 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno, Plan9 /srv, and mount -9 Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:07:18 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <781e07126f976f674fc5a4e558b4b8b4@terzarima.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ptshynatpybxwdpmtxfridrtnw" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ptshynatpybxwdpmtxfridrtnw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > does work for me, to some extent, but perhaps it's the `some' on > which you were remarking! seems to work ok for me, the only minor glitch being that the cursor isn't printed in the URL entry text widget. oh yes, and it breaks when it's closing down. the first error is just a little spelling mistake; and the second is easily fixed. the most annoying thing is that it's quite difficult to get the snarf buffer interchange between rio and inferno, as the only place to find the snarf buffer in rio is in a window's directory, and we don't necessarily have any windows to start with. and as far as i can see, binding the snarf file over /chan/snarf the first time we create a window isn't good enough either as the bind can't keep a reference to that original file, so when that window goes away, the snarf buffer won't be accessible. the most decent solution i can think of is to create a dummy window and use the snarf buffer from that. unfortunately that'll clutter up tools like winwatch. maybe someone else might be able to think of a better way. i've attached a fixed rioimport.b and the plan 9 shell script i use for launching charon. i've got a plumbing rule that looks like: achar='[a-zA-Z0-9_+@]' qchar='[a-zA-Z0-9_?,%!#~&.=@+/\-;]' type is text data matches '(https?|ftp|file|gopher|mailto|news|nntp|telnet|wais|prospero)://'$achar'+([.:]'$achar'+)*/?'$qchar'+([:.]'$qchar'+)*' plumb to web plumb start charon $0 this means i can plumb web addresses, and they get plumbed into a new rio window. it's nice to have this working again! --upas-ptshynatpybxwdpmtxfridrtnw Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=rioimport.b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit implement Rioimport; include "sys.m"; sys: Sys; include "draw.m"; draw: Draw; Image, Point, Rect, Display, Screen: import draw; include "wmsrv.m"; wmsrv: Wmsrv; include "sh.m"; sh: Sh; include "string.m"; str: String; Rioimport: module{ init: fn(nil: ref Draw->Context, argv: list of string); }; Client: adt{ ptrstarted: int; kbdstarted: int; state: int; # Hidden|Current req: chan of (array of byte, Sys->Rwrite); resize: chan of ref Riowin; ptr: chan of ref Draw->Pointer; riowctl: chan of (ref Riowin, int); wins: list of ref Riowin; winfd: ref Sys->FD; sc: ref Wmsrv->Client; }; Riowin: adt { tag: string; img: ref Image; dir: string; state: int; ptrpid: int; kbdpid: int; ctlpid: int; ptrfd: ref Sys->FD; ctlfd: ref Sys->FD; }; Hidden, Current: con 1<Context, argv: list of string) { sys = load Sys Sys->PATH; draw = load Draw Draw->PATH; sh = load Sh Sh->PATH; str = load String String->PATH; wmsrv = load Wmsrv Wmsrv->PATH; wc := chan of (ref Draw->Context, string); spawn rioproxy(wc); (ctxt, err) := <-wc; if(err != nil){ sys->fprint(sys->fildes(2), "rioimport: %s\n", err); raise "fail:no display"; } sh->run(ctxt, tl argv); } rioproxy(wc: chan of (ref Draw->Context, string)) { { rioproxy1(wc); } exception e { "fail:*" => wc <-= (nil, e[5:]); } } rioproxy1(wc: chan of (ref Draw->Context, string)) { display = Display.allocate(P9PATH + "/dev"); if(display == nil) raise sys->sprint("fail:cannot allocate display: %r"); sys->pctl(Sys->NEWPGRP|Sys->NEWFD, 1 :: 2 :: nil); (wm, join, req) := wmsrv->init(); if(wm == nil){ wc <-= (nil, sys->sprint("%r")); return; } readscreenr(); wc <-= (ref Draw->Context(display, nil, wm), nil); clients: array of ref Client; nc := 0; for(;;) alt{ (sc, rc) := <-join => if(nc != 0) rc <-= "only one client available"; sync := chan of (ref Client, string); spawn clientproc(sc,sync); (c, err) := <-sync; rc <-= err; if(c != nil){ if(sc.id >= len clients) clients = (array[sc.id + 1] of ref Client)[0:] = clients; clients[sc.id] = c; } (sc, data, rc) := <-req => clients[sc.id].req <-= (data, rc); if(rc == nil) clients[sc.id] = nil; } } zclient: Client; clientproc(sc: ref Wmsrv->Client, rc: chan of (ref Client, string)) { c := ref zclient; c.req = chan of (array of byte, Sys->Rwrite); c.resize = chan of ref Riowin; c.ptr = chan of ref Draw->Pointer; c.riowctl = chan of (ref Riowin, int); c.sc = sc; rc <-= (c, nil); pidc := chan of int; loop: for(;;) alt{ (data, drc) := <-c.req => if(drc == nil) break loop; err := handlerequest(c, data); n := len data; if(err != nil) n = -1; alt{ drc <-= (n, err) =>; * =>; } p := <-c.ptr => sc.ptr <-= p; w := <-c.resize => if((c.state & Hidden) == 0) sc.ctl <-= sys->sprint("!reshape %q -1 0 0 0 0 getwin", w.tag); (w, state) := <-c.riowctl => if((c.state^state)&Current) sc.ctl <-= "haskbdfocus " + string ((state & Current)!=0); if((c.state^state)&Hidden){ s := "unhide"; if(state&Hidden) s = "hide"; for(wl := c.wins; wl != nil; wl = tl wl){ if(hd wl != w) rioctl(hd wl, s); if(c.state&Hidden) sc.ctl <-= sys->sprint("!reshape %q -1 0 0 0 0 getwin", (hd wl).tag); } } c.state = state; w.state = state; } sc.stop <-= 1; for(wl := c.wins; wl != nil; wl = tl wl) delwin(hd wl); } handlerequest(c: ref Client, data: array of byte): string { req := string data; #sys->print("%d: %s\n", c.sc.id, req); if(req == nil) return "no request"; args := str->unquoted(req); n := len args; case hd args { "key" => return "permission denied"; "ptr" => # ptr x y if(n != 3) return "bad arg count"; if(c.ptrstarted == 0) return "pointer not active"; for(w := c.wins; w != nil; w = tl w){ if((hd w).ptrfd != nil){ sys->fprint((hd w).ptrfd, "m%11d %11d", int hd tl args, int hd tl tl args); return nil; } } return "no windows"; "start" => if(n != 2) return "bad arg count"; case hd tl args { "ptr" or "mouse" => if(c.ptrstarted == -1) return "already started"; sync := chan of int; for(w := c.wins; w != nil; w = tl w){ spawn ptrproc(hd w, c.ptr, c.resize, sync); (hd w).ptrpid = <-sync; } c.ptrstarted = 1; return nil; "kbd" => if(c.kbdstarted == -1) return "already started"; sync := chan of int; for(w := c.wins; w != nil; w = tl w){ spawn kbdproc(hd w, c.sc.kbd, sync); (hd w).kbdpid = <-sync; } return nil; * => return "unknown input source"; } "!reshape" => # reshape tag reqid rect [how] # XXX allow "how" to specify that the origin of the window is never # changed - a new window will be created instead. if(n < 7) return "bad arg count"; args = tl args; tag := hd args; args = tl args; args = tl args; # skip reqid r: Rect; r.min.x = int hd args; args = tl args; r.min.y = int hd args; args = tl args; r.max.x = int hd args; args = tl args; r.max.y = int hd args; args = tl args; spec := ""; if(args != nil){ case hd args{ "onscreen" => r = fitrect(r, screenr).inset(-Borderwidth); spec = "-r " + r2s(r); "place" => r = fitrect(r, screenr).inset(-Borderwidth); spec = "-dx " + string r.dx() + " -dy " + string r.dy(); "exact" => spec = "-r " + r2s(r.inset(-Borderwidth)); "max" => r = screenr; # XXX don't obscure toolbar? spec = "-r " + r2s(r.inset(Borderwidth)); "getwin" => ; # just get the new image * => return "unkown placement method"; } }else spec = "-r " + r2s(r.inset(-Borderwidth)); return reshape(c, tag, spec); "delete" => # delete tag if(tl args == nil) return "tag required"; tag := hd tl args; nw: list of ref Riowin; for(w := c.wins; w != nil; w = tl w){ if((hd w).tag == tag){ delwin(hd w); wmsrv->c.sc.setimage(tag, nil); }else nw = hd w :: nw; } c.wins = nil; for(; nw != nil; nw = tl nw) c.wins = hd nw :: c.wins; "label" => if(n != 2) return "bad arg count"; for(w := c.wins; w != nil; w = tl w) setlabel(hd w, hd tl args); "raise" => # top(c); "lower" => # bottom(c); "task" => if(n != 2) return "bad arg count"; c.state |= Hidden; for(w := c.wins; w != nil; w = tl w){ setlabel(hd w, hd tl args); rioctl(hd w, "hide"); } "untask" => wins: list of ref Riowin; for(w := c.wins; w != nil; w = tl w) wins = hd w :: wins; for(; wins != nil; wins = tl wins) rioctl(hd wins, "unhide"); "!move" => # !move tag reqid startx starty if(n != 5) return "bad arg count"; args = tl args; tag := hd args; args = tl args; args = tl args; w := wmsrv->c.sc.window(tag); if(w == nil) return "no such tag"; return dragwin(c.ptr, c, w, Point(int hd args, int hd tl args)); "!size" => return "nope"; "kbdfocus" => if(n != 2) return "bad arg count"; if(int hd tl args){ if(c.wins != nil) return rioctl(hd c.wins, "current"); } return nil; * => return "unknown request"; } return nil; } dragwin(ptr: chan of ref Draw->Pointer, c: ref Client, w: ref Wmsrv->Window, click: Point): string { # if(buttons == 0) # return "too late"; p: ref Draw->Pointer; img := w.img.screen.image; r := img.r; off := click.sub(r.min); do{ p = <-ptr; img.origin(r.min, p.xy.sub(off)); } while (p.buttons != 0); c.sc.ptr <-= p; # buttons = 0; nr: Rect; nr.min = p.xy.sub(off); nr.max = nr.min.add(r.size()); if(nr.eq(r)) return "not moved"; reshape(c, w.tag, "-r " + r2s(nr)); return nil; } rioctl(w: ref Riowin, req: string): string { if(sys->fprint(w.ctlfd, "%s", req) == -1){ #sys->print("rioctl fail %s: %s: %r\n", w.dir, req); return sys->sprint("%r"); } #sys->print("rioctl %s: %s\n", w.dir, req); return nil; } reshape(c: ref Client, tag: string, spec: string): string { for(wl := c.wins; wl != nil; wl = tl wl) if((hd wl).tag == tag) break; if(wl == nil){ (w, e) := newwin(c, tag, spec); if(w == nil) return e; c.wins = w :: c.wins; wmsrv->c.sc.setimage(tag, w.img); sync := chan of int; if(c.kbdstarted){ spawn kbdproc(w, c.sc.kbd, sync); w.kbdpid = <-sync; } if(c.ptrstarted){ spawn ptrproc(w, c.sc.ptr, c.resize, sync); w.ptrpid = <-sync; } return nil; } w := hd wl; if(spec != nil){ e := rioctl(w, "resize " + spec); if(e != nil) return e; } getwin(w); if(w.img == nil) return "getwin failed"; wmsrv->c.sc.setimage(tag, w.img); return nil; } zriowin: Riowin; newwin(c: ref Client, tag, spec: string): (ref Riowin, string) { wsys := readfile(P9PATH + "/env/wsys"); if(wsys == nil) return (nil, "no $wsys"); d := "/mnt/"+string wsysseq++; fd := sys->open(wsys, Sys->ORDWR); if(fd == nil) return (nil, sys->sprint("cannot open %q: %r\n", wsys)); if(sys->mount(fd, nil, d, Sys->MREPL, "new "+spec) == -1) return (nil, sys->sprint("mount %q failed: %r", wsys)); (ok, nil) := sys->stat(d + "/winname"); if(ok == -1) return (nil, "could not make window"); w := ref zriowin; w.tag = tag; w.dir = d; getwin(w); w.ctlfd = sys->open(d + "/wctl", Sys->ORDWR); setlabel(w, "inferno "+string sys->pctl(0, nil)+"."+tag); sync := chan of int; spawn ctlproc(w, c.riowctl, sync); w.ctlpid = <-sync; return (w, nil); } setlabel(w: ref Riowin, s: string) { fd := sys->open(w.dir + "/label", Sys->OWRITE); if(fd != nil) sys->fprint(fd, "%s", s); } ctlproc(w: ref Riowin, wctl: chan of (ref Riowin, int), sync: chan of int) { sync <-= sys->pctl(0, nil); buf := array[1024] of byte; for(;;){ n := sys->read(w.ctlfd, buf, len buf); if(n <= 0) break; if(n > 4*12){ state := 0; (nil, toks) := sys->tokenize(string buf[4*12:], " "); if(hd toks == "current") state |= Current; if(hd tl toks == "hidden") state |= Hidden; wctl <-= (w, state); } } #sys->print("riowctl eof\n"); } delwin(w: ref Riowin) { sys->unmount(nil, w.dir); kill(w.ptrpid, "kill"); kill(w.kbdpid, "kill"); kill(w.ctlpid, "kill"); } getwin(w: ref Riowin): int { s := readfile(w.dir + "/winname"); #sys->print("getwin %s\n", s); i := display.namedimage(s); if(i == nil) return -1; scr := Screen.allocate(i, display.white, 0); if(scr == nil) return -1; wi := scr.newwindow(i.r.inset(Borderwidth), Draw->Refnone, Draw->Nofill); if(wi == nil) return -1; w.img = wi; return 0; } kbdproc(w: ref Riowin, keys: chan of int, sync: chan of int) { sys->pctl(Sys->NEWFD, nil); cctl := sys->open(w.dir + "/consctl", Sys->OWRITE); sys->fprint(cctl, "rawon"); fd := sys->open(w.dir + "/cons", Sys->OREAD); if(fd == nil){ sync <-= -1; return; } sync <-= sys->pctl(0, nil); buf := array[12] of byte; while((n := sys->read(fd, buf, len buf)) > 0){ s := string buf[0:n]; for(j := 0; j < len s; j++) keys <-= int s[j]; } #sys->print("eof on kbdproc\n"); } # fit a window rectangle to the available space. # try to preserve requested location if possible. # make sure that the window is no bigger than # the screen, and that its top and left-hand edges # will be visible at least. fitrect(w, r: Rect): Rect { if(w.dx() > r.dx()) w.max.x = w.min.x + r.dx(); if(w.dy() > r.dy()) w.max.y = w.min.y + r.dy(); size := w.size(); if (w.max.x > r.max.x) (w.min.x, w.max.x) = (r.min.x - size.x, r.max.x - size.x); if (w.max.y > r.max.y) (w.min.y, w.max.y) = (r.min.y - size.y, r.max.y - size.y); if (w.min.x < r.min.x) (w.min.x, w.max.x) = (r.min.x, r.min.x + size.x); if (w.min.y < r.min.y) (w.min.y, w.max.y) = (r.min.y, r.min.y + size.y); return w; } ptrproc(w: ref Riowin, ptr: chan of ref Draw->Pointer, resize: chan of ref Riowin, sync: chan of int) { w.ptrfd = sys->open(w.dir + "/mouse", Sys->ORDWR); if(w.ptrfd == nil){ sync <-= -1; return; } sync <-= sys->pctl(0, nil); b:= array[Ptrsize] of byte; while((n := sys->read(w.ptrfd, b, len b)) > 0){ if(n > 0 && int b[0] == 'r'){ #sys->print("ptrproc got resize: %s\n", string b[0:n]); resize <-= w; }else{ p := bytes2ptr(b); if(p != nil) ptr <-= p; } } #sys->print("eof on ptrproc\n"); } bytes2ptr(b: array of byte): ref Draw->Pointer { if(len b < Ptrsize || int b[0] != 'm') return nil; x := int string b[1:13]; y := int string b[13:25]; but := int string b[25:37]; msec := int string b[37:49]; return ref Draw->Pointer (but, (x, y), msec); } readfile(f: string): string { fd := sys->open(f, sys->OREAD); if(fd == nil) return nil; buf := array[8192] of byte; n := sys->read(fd, buf, len buf); if(n < 0) return nil; return string buf[0:n]; } readscreenr() { fd := sys->open(P9PATH + "/dev/screen", Sys->OREAD); if(fd == nil) return ; buf := array[5*12] of byte; n := sys->read(fd, buf, len buf); if(n <= len buf) return; screenr.min.x = int string buf[12:23]; screenr.min.y = int string buf[24:35]; screenr.max.x = int string buf[36:47]; screenr.max.y = int string buf[48:]; } r2s(r: Rect): string { return string r.min.x + " " + string r.min.y + " " + string r.max.x + " " + string r.max.y; } kill(pid: int, note: string): int { fd := sys->open("#p/"+string pid+"/ctl", Sys->OWRITE); if(fd == nil || sys->fprint(fd, "%s", note) < 0) return -1; return 0; } --upas-ptshynatpybxwdpmtxfridrtnw Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=charon Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit #!/bin/rc rfork ne e=/bin/myemu if (! test -s $e) e=emu { opts=() while(~ $1 -*){ opts=($opts $1) shift } if(! test -f /dev/draw/new){ bind -a '#i' /dev } exec $e -G -I $opts /dis/sh.dis -c ' bind -c ''#U*'' /n/local mount -a {mntgen} /mnt bind -c ''#โ‚ช'' /srv listen tcp!*!1234 {export /&} rioimport { charon -buttons plain -framework all,exit $* > /dev/null >[2=1] echo halt > /dev/sysctl } $* ' $* } --upas-ptshynatpybxwdpmtxfridrtnw-- From mail.ru!santucco Tue Aug 31 07:40:55 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mx.kaspersky.com ([212.5.80.5]) by doppio; Tue Aug 31 07:40:55 BST 2004 Received: from mailgate.kaspersky.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with SMTP id 6605E2708A for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:34:59 +0400 (MSD) Received: by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP, from userid 99) id 14C8126ECB; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:34:59 +0400 (MSD) Received: from mx.avp.ru (mx.avp.ru [212.5.80.12]) by mx.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with ESMTP id F180626033 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:34:58 +0400 (MSD) Received: from moscow.avp.ru ([172.16.11.1]) by mx.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:37:30 +0400 Received: from santucco.avp.ru ([172.16.10.43]) by moscow.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:37:30 +0400 To: "inferno-list@vitanuova.com" Subject: Archive Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:29:45 +0400 From: "Alexander Sychev" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Linux, build 751) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Aug 2004 06:37:30.0609 (UTC) FILETIME=[FD655E10:01C48F24] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! Is there an archive of this mailing list? How can I obtain it? Thanks. --=20 Best regards, santucco From mail.ru!santucco Wed Sep 1 10:21:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mx.kaspersky.com ([212.5.80.5]) by doppio; Wed Sep 1 10:21:28 BST 2004 Received: from mailgate.kaspersky.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with SMTP id CE69929F28 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:15:31 +0400 (MSD) Received: by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP, from userid 99) id 5689229F07; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:15:31 +0400 (MSD) Received: from mx.avp.ru (mx.avp.ru [212.5.80.12]) by mx.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with ESMTP id 2158D29ED6 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:15:31 +0400 (MSD) Received: from moscow.avp.ru ([172.16.11.1]) by mx.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:18:30 +0400 Received: from santucco.avp.ru ([172.16.10.43]) by moscow.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:18:30 +0400 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 13:10:40 +0400 Subject: An analoque for 'select' system call To: "inferno-list@vitanuova.com" From: "Alexander Sychev" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Linux, build 751) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Sep 2004 09:18:30.0781 (UTC) FILETIME=[A5B862D0:01C49004] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! It is a pity, there aren't a FAQ list or an archive of this mailing list.= =20 This makes me to ask usual and possible dump questions. There is language constructions in Limbo to examine readiness of channels= =20 ( the alt statement and the <-operator ). For a file server side there is the file2channel system call, that allows= =20 to make a file in a namespace and bind it to a channel. Is there such a system call for a client side, that allows to bind an =20 existing file in a namespace to a channel (something like the select =20 system call in Unix-like systems)? Or is there a method to examine readiness of several files in a namespace= =20 WITHOUT spawning a dedicated thread for the each interested file? Maybe is worth-while an addition a system call like a fd2channel? If it i= s =20 not, why? Thanks. --=20 Best regards, santucco P.S. I apologize for my English. From forsyth Wed Sep 1 10:52:24 BST 2004 remote from doppio subject: new distribution From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:52:24 +0100 To: inferno-list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit there's a new distribution on the web site, which is also back (Demon; don't ask). http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/downloads.html From gmail.com!mirtchovski Wed Sep 1 15:50:34 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.194]) by doppio; Wed Sep 1 15:50:34 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 73so247278rnk for ; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 07:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.3.58 with SMTP id 58mr1551233rnc; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 06:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.181.58 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 06:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <14ec7b18040901064427c5aec9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:44:34 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski Reply-To: andrey mirtchovski To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] An analoque for 'select' system call In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: > It is a pity, there aren't a FAQ list or an archive of this mailing list. > This makes me to ask usual and possible dump questions. > here's the faq: http://ftp.bme.hu/OS/inferno/faq.html and the archive: http://lists.gemusehaken.org/pipermail/inferno/ (the second refuses to load right now, not sure what the status is there) as for select-like functionality, i believe the Plan 9 papers have justification why it's missing (together with ioctl). look at /appl/cmd/tail.b to see how the -f option is implemented. really simple. if you need to monitor many files spawn a thread for each channel that does a for(;;){read; sleep} and have those threads send info on channels which you can actually alt() on. the event.h library in Plan 9 does exactly that. From mail.ru!santucco Wed Sep 1 16:28:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mx.kaspersky.com ([212.5.80.5]) by doppio; Wed Sep 1 16:28:27 BST 2004 Received: from mailgate.kaspersky.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with SMTP id 442A03713F for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:22:30 +0400 (MSD) Received: by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP, from userid 99) id 9ADE73716B; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:22:29 +0400 (MSD) Received: from mx.avp.ru (mx.avp.ru [212.5.80.12]) by mx.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with ESMTP id 930B937137 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:22:28 +0400 (MSD) Received: from moscow.avp.ru ([172.16.11.1]) by mx.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:25:45 +0400 Received: from santucco.avp.ru ([172.16.10.43]) by moscow.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:25:42 +0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] An analoque for 'select' system call References: <14ec7b18040901064427c5aec9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 19:17:51 +0400 From: "Alexander Sychev" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <14ec7b18040901064427c5aec9@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Linux, build 751) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Sep 2004 15:25:42.0875 (UTC) FILETIME=[F1DF22B0:01C49037] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:44:34 -0600, andrey mirtchovski =20 wrote: >> It is a pity, there aren't a FAQ list or an archive of this mailing =20 >> list. >> This makes me to ask usual and possible dump questions. >> > > here's the faq: http://ftp.bme.hu/OS/inferno/faq.html > and the archive: http://lists.gemusehaken.org/pipermail/inferno/ > Thanks a lot, it will be very helpful :-) > if you need to monitor many files spawn a thread for each channel that > does a for(;;){read; sleep} and have those threads send info on > channels which you can actually alt() on. the event.h library in Plan > 9 does exactly that. > Spawning a dedicated thread for each channel is very expensive, I think. --=20 Best regards, santucco From gmail.com!russcox Wed Sep 1 17:04:46 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.196]) by doppio; Wed Sep 1 17:04:46 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 76so320706rnk for ; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 08:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.6.75 with SMTP id 75mr2045265rnf; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 08:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.86.76 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:52:07 -0400 From: Russ Cox Reply-To: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] An analoque for 'select' system call In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <14ec7b18040901064427c5aec9@mail.gmail.com> The {read; sleep} loop needn't apply in this case. For a network or pipe (which seems to be what you're talking about) you can just read in a loop. > Spawning a dedicated thread for each channel is very expensive, I think. Try it and find out. Russ From memphis.edu!jbgreer Wed Sep 1 17:16:41 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from narya.memphis.edu ([141.225.252.107]) by doppio; Wed Sep 1 17:16:41 BST 2004 Received: from postoffice.memphis.edu (herugrim.memphis.edu [141.225.223.34]) by narya.memphis.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81GAgXP016920 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:10:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([141.225.10.247]) by postoffice.memphis.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id I3DE9U00.Q1D for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:10:42 -0500 Message-ID: <4135F483.9030009@memphis.edu> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:10:43 -0500 From: Jim Greer User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new distribution References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit C H Forsyth wrote: >there's a new distribution on the web site, >which is also back (Demon; don't ask). >http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/downloads.html > > Care to share what has changed? The ''Summary of Distribution Contents`` page hasn't changed. Regards, Jim G From ionkov.net!lucho Wed Sep 1 21:31:33 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net ([204.127.202.56]) by doppio; Wed Sep 1 21:31:33 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004090120253601200c4rphe>; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 20:25:36 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id A3A4846252F; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:28:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:28:06 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] An analoque for 'select' system call Message-ID: <20040901202806.GA5276@ionkov.net> References: <14ec7b18040901064427c5aec9@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Just wondering if anybody tested this with emu on Linux or other Unix. Is there a big difference of the performance than Plan9 or native Inferno? Thanks, Lucho On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 11:52:07AM -0400, Russ Cox said: > The {read; sleep} loop needn't apply in this case. > For a network or pipe (which seems to be what you're > talking about) you can just read in a loop. > > > Spawning a dedicated thread for each channel is very expensive, I think. > > Try it and find out. > > Russ From forsyth Wed Sep 1 21:58:02 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:58:02 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new distribution In-Reply-To: <4135F483.9030009@memphis.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-qyeefmldmqelqsagchticrzkex" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-qyeefmldmqelqsagchticrzkex Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ah, yes i did promise last time to do one of those. as usual it turned out to be a choice between starting one and actually doing the distribution. i'll try. meanwhile, sh-alphabet(1) has been made a freeman of the city: see alphabet-abc(1), alphabet-fs(1), alphabet-grid(1), alphabet-main(1) and hope there's a tutorial at some point ... --upas-qyeefmldmqelqsagchticrzkex Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from narya.memphis.edu ([141.225.252.107]) by doppio; Wed Sep 1 17:16:41 BST 2004 Received: from postoffice.memphis.edu (herugrim.memphis.edu [141.225.223.34]) by narya.memphis.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81GAgXP016920 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:10:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([141.225.10.247]) by postoffice.memphis.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id I3DE9U00.Q1D for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:10:42 -0500 Message-ID: <4135F483.9030009@memphis.edu> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:10:43 -0500 From: Jim Greer User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new distribution Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk C H Forsyth wrote: >there's a new distribution on the web site, >which is also back (Demon; don't ask). >http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/downloads.html > > Care to share what has changed? The ''Summary of Distribution Contents`` page hasn't changed. Regards, Jim G --upas-qyeefmldmqelqsagchticrzkex-- From cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mirtchov Wed Sep 1 22:01:33 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plan9.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.220.110]) by doppio; Wed Sep 1 22:01:33 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] An analoque for 'select' system call Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:55:31 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <20040901202806.GA5276@ionkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Just wondering if anybody tested this with emu on Linux or other Unix. Is > there a big difference of the performance than Plan9 or native Inferno? > here's one that does lots of threads: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/p9/primthr.c this is Plan 9, not limbo, but I assume limbo would be much easier to write :) anyway, this program is an implementation of rob pike's concurrent sieve of erathosthenes from his lectures on concurrent programming: http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who/rob/lec1.pdf it creates a thread for each prime number from 2 to [end]. you can get it in the thousands of threads pretty fast (see what 'ps' shows then :) andrey ps: for educational purposes only. From infernopark.com!vdharani Thu Sep 2 04:26:15 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plain.rackshack.net ([207.44.192.47]) by doppio; Thu Sep 2 04:26:15 BST 2004 Received: from www.infernopark.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by plain.rackshack.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i828VkUc002625 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 03:31:46 -0500 Received: from 138.89.132.134 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 03:31:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3055.138.89.132.134.1094113906.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4135F483.9030009@memphis.edu> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 03:31:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new distribution From: vdharani@infernopark.com To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal > ah, yes i did promise last time to do one of those. > as usual it turned out to be a choice between starting > one and actually doing the distribution. i'll try. > meanwhile, sh-alphabet(1) has been made a freeman of the city: > see alphabet-abc(1), alphabet-fs(1), alphabet-grid(1), alphabet-main(1) > and hope there's a tutorial at some point ... if i do: % load alphabet does it get loaded? i dont see /dis/sh/alphabet.dis or something like that. i tried to run /dis/alphabet/alphabet.dis but couldnt do it. i tried to get some idea on what sh-alphabet is but i think it is not going to be straight forward. is rog's shell still the base on which alphabet runs? btw, why the name alphabet? does it signify anything? it would be nice if someone tells in a few lines what it is and what it can be used (and what problem it solves) for while we wait for the tutorial. thanks dharani From forsyth Thu Sep 2 09:33:03 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:33:03 +0100 To: inferno-list, mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new distribution In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cd your-inferno-root/appl/alphabet mk your-inferno-root/dis/sh/alphabet.dis should provide the thing you're intended to load. then alphabet-main(1) should apply. it's my fault: i thought /dis/sh/alphabet.dis was a dreg and didn't include it because there was no longer a manual page for it, but it wasn't; that part of the description had moved. From york.ac.uk!as234 Thu Sep 2 11:10:08 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mail-gw1.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.246]) by doppio; Thu Sep 2 11:10:08 BST 2004 Received: from [144.32.20.21] (whitegene.chem.york.ac.uk [144.32.20.21]) by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82A4AKm008457 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:04:10 +0100 (BST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) In-Reply-To: <3055.138.89.132.134.1094113906.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> References: <4135F483.9030009@memphis.edu> <3055.138.89.132.134.1094113906.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <6F5BADC2-FCC7-11D8-AAC2-000D934FC1C4@york.ac.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Abhey Shah Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new distribution Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:04:10 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-York-MailScanner-From: as234@york.ac.uk On 2 Sep 2004, at 09:31, vdharani@infernopark.com wrote: >> ah, yes i did promise last time to do one of those. >> as usual it turned out to be a choice between starting >> one and actually doing the distribution. i'll try. >> meanwhile, sh-alphabet(1) has been made a freeman of the city: >> see alphabet-abc(1), alphabet-fs(1), alphabet-grid(1), >> alphabet-main(1) >> and hope there's a tutorial at some point ... > > if i do: > > % load alphabet > > does it get loaded? i dont see /dis/sh/alphabet.dis or something like > that. i tried to run /dis/alphabet/alphabet.dis but couldnt do it. > if you don't get any error messages it should be loaded. try -{/read stuff.txt | /print 1} that should do a cat of the file stuff.txt Abhey > i tried to get some idea on what sh-alphabet is but i think it is not > going to be straight forward. is rog's shell still the base on which > alphabet runs? > btw, why the name alphabet? does it signify anything? > > it would be nice if someone tells in a few lines what it is and what it > can be used (and what problem it solves) for while we wait for the > tutorial. > > thanks > dharani > > > From rog Mon Sep 6 19:41:55 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new distribution Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:41:55 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <3055.138.89.132.134.1094113906.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-dmrgorferthfjdubcflpwhaqqt" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-dmrgorferthfjdubcflpwhaqqt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > btw, why the name alphabet? does it signify anything? it doesn't signify a great deal, but the name seemed appropriate to me for a few reasons: its aim is to be simple ("as simple as A, B, C"). various parts of it are based around having a small number of components that can then be combined in various ways to produce more useful constructions, in much the same way that one can combine letters of the alphabet to make words. in the implementation, alphabet "types" are represented as unicode characters. > it would be nice if someone tells in a few lines what it is and what it > can be used (and what problem it solves) for while we wait for the > tutorial. it's a little language, with a syntax that is a subset of the inferno shell's (and therefore closely related to rc's). one might call it a functional language, but it doesn't provide the primitives usually associated with functional languages (e.g. lambda calculus, list manipulation). instead, it tries to focus on making it straightforward to compose software components. the Bourne shell and its successors have long been held up as great examples of software reusability, particularly the way that programs can be pipelined together. unfortunately these shells are limited because you can only pipe streams of bytes between programs. in contrast, a conventional programming language provides some fundamental types, and allows one to compose these into new types with arrays, structures, objects and so on. alphabet lies somewhere between these two extremes - it allows an open-ended set of types, but provides no primitives for composing these into new types. hopefully this means that, as with the Bourne shell, people put more effort into providing primitives that work with the existing types (and hence may be directly combined) than creating new types. a new concept in alphabet is that of the "typeset" - a set of types related to one another. a typeset defines a kind of framework within which interchangeable modules may be written. so for instance, the root typeset defines five types: string - a simple textual string cmd - a parsed command block in sh(1) syntax. fd - a readable file descriptor wfd - a read/writable file descriptor status - success/fail status this already allows us to do quite a lot. for instance, one might have shell-like primitives for data processing: read string -> fd open a named file for reading; return its file descriptor. sort [-n] fd -> fd sort lines read from fd. uniq fd -> fd remove duplicate lines. print fd string -> status print data read from fd to named external fd. one could write a little alphabet expression: print {uniq {sort {read /NOTICE}}} 1 which would sort the lines in the file /NOTICE, remove duplicated lines, and send the result to the standard output (fd 1). it's this kind of expression that gives LISP a bad name - deep embedding is difficult for the human brain to deal with. alphabet allows one to use the shell pipe notation to get rid of unnecessary embedding: read /NOTICE | sort | uniq | print 1 the above two expressions are considered exactly equivalent. the second expression still seems a bit bulky compared to the usual Bourne shell equivalent (sort /NOTICE | uniq), but we can get around that too, by specifying some _autoconversions_, for instance: autoconvert string fd {| /read} this says that if a module is expecting a file descriptor (fd) and it sees a string, it should automatically insert a primitive to do the conversion (read). N.B. the above is actually an inferno shell command, rather than an alphabet expression. so: sort /NOTICE | uniq | print 1 is still equivalent to the previous expression. we can autoconvert at the other end too: autoconvert fd status "{| print 1} so now, without changing the actual primitives at all, we can use a filename anywhere a file descriptor is expected, and any command that returns a file descriptor will automatically have the contents printed to stdout. for instance: sort /NOTICE | uniq but we haven't really done anything unusual so far... we could go a little further by loading a new typeset, for example "fs", which implements a scheme for talking about the contents of filesystems, "grid", which implements peer-to-peer data streaming, or "abc" which implements a set of types for talking about alphabet itself. or i could talk about secure remote execution, implementing new typesets, graphical user interfaces... but i've already gone on too long. perhaps i've managed to give something of a flavour of the tool. basically, it's very general, and it solves many problems (or none, depending on your point of view). i think it's got potential, but then again, i'm totally biased! i've attached the sh-alphabet(1) man page here, as it didn't seem to go out with the last distribution. cheers, rog. --upas-dmrgorferthfjdubcflpwhaqqt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=sh-alphabet Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit .TH SH-ALPHABET 1 .SH NAME alphabet, typeset, declare, import, type, define, autodeclare, autoconvert, -, rewrite, modules, types, usage, info, clear \- typed shell interface .SH SYNOPSIS .B load alphabet .B type .IR qname ... .br .B declare .I name [ .I usage ] .br .B undeclare .IR name ... .br .B define .I name .I expr .br .B import .IR qname ... .br .B typeset .I qname .br .B autoconvert .I srctype dsttype expr .br .B autodeclare .BR "" 0 | 1 .br .B - .BI { expression } .br .B ${rewrite {\fIexpression\fP} [ .I dsttype ] .B } .br .B ${modules} .br .B ${types .I typeset .B } .br .B ${usage .I qname .B } .br .B info .br .B clear .SH DESCRIPTION .I Alphabet is a loadable .IR sh (1) module providing an interface to a simple, experimental, typed shell. It initially provides a small set of basic types, which can be added to by loading new .IR typeset s. Types are atomic; .I alphabet provides no support for higher-order types. The .IR "root typeset" , named .BR / , consists of the following kinds of value: .TP 10 .B string A simple string literal, represented by itself, or quoted according to the usual shell quoting rules. .TP .B cmd A shell command or uninterpreted .I alphabet expression, represented by the syntax \f5"{\fIblock\f5}\fR. .TP .B fd A file open for reading. .TP .B wfd A file open for reading and writing. .TP .B status The status of a completed command. .PP Each typeset implements a set of types, and has an associated set of .IR module s. Initially, types may only be referred to by their .IR "qualified name" s, consisting of the name of the type prefixed with the name of its typeset; for instance .B /string for the string type, or .B /grid/data for a type named .B data in the typeset .BR /grid . An .I "unqualified name" is the qualified name without the typeset prefix; for instance .B string or .BR data . .PP To make a type available as its unqualified name, use the .B type command, which imports the type named by the qualified name .I qname from its parent typeset. This is a no-op if the type has previously been imported from the same typeset; an error is raised if the type has previously been imported from a different typeset. .PP .B Declare declares the module .IR name with type .IR usage . If .I name is a qualified name, the module must exist in the specified typeset and be compatible with the specified usage. If .I usage is not given, the module itself will be loaded and queried to find it out. If .I name is not qualified, the declaration is .IR virtual : the module cannot actually be used, but is available for typechecking and expression rewriting. .B Declare is a no-op if the module has already been declared with a compatible usage, otherwise an error is raised. The syntax of .I usage is similar to the usage messages printed by normal shell commands, and defines the argument types expected by a module. For example: .IP .EX declare /foo/bar '[-a] [-x string] fd string [string...] -> fd' .EE .PP The above declares the module .B bar from typeset .BR /foo , which takes two possible options (one of which requires a single associated argument of type .BR string ), two mandatory arguments, of type .B fd and .B string respectively, and any number of additional arguments of type .BR string . The module returns a value of type .BR fd . .PP When first loaded, .I alphabet is lax about declaration requirements: if a module is referred to by its qualified name, and is not currently declared, the module will automatically be declared and used as appropriate (as long as the module actually exists). Use .B autodeclare to change this behaviour. .B "Autodeclare 0" turns off all automatic declaration: all modules used in an expression must have previously been declared; .B "autodeclare 1" reverts to the original behaviour. .PP Once a module is declared, it may be referred to by its qualified name. .B Import makes the module available under its unqualified name. It is an error if a module of the same name has already been imported from a different typeset. For instance: .IP .EX declare /read 'string -> fd' import /read .EE .PP This would declare a module named .B read from the root typeset (checking that it accepts a single string argument and returns a file), and make it available under the name .BR read . .PP .B Undeclare removes the previously declared .IR name . Note that an imported module has two names: its qualified name and its unqualified name. .PP .B Typeset loads the new typeset .IR qname . Typesets are hierarchical in the same way that types and modules are: a typeset adds some types to its parent typeset, and has an associated set of modules that provide transformations between those types and between those of its parent. .PP .B Autoconvert specifies an automatic conversion between .I srctype and .IR dsttype , i.e. whereever a module expects an argument of type .IR dsttype , and the argument is actually of type .IR srctype , the module block (see below for definition) .I expr (which must be compatible with type .IB srctype -> dsttype\fR), will be invoked to convert between the two. Several conversions will be applied atop one another if necessary. It is an error if adding the auto-conversion creates an ambiguous conversion path between two types. As a convenience, .I expr may simply be the name of a module, in which case the expression will be rewritten as its identity module block: \f5{(\fIsrctype\fP); \fIexpr\fP}\fR. .PP The .B - command evaluates the .I alphabet .IR expression , of the form: .IP .EX {\fIcommand arg\fR...\f5} .EE .PP Usually, .I command is the name of a previously declared module, which must also have been imported if it is not a qualified name. The arguments must conform to those expected by the module. Each argument is either a literal string or shell-command, as described earlier, or a subexpression of the same form as above. All subexpressions are evaluated fully before .I command is invoked. The result of the outermost expression must be convertible to the type .BR /status ; the shell status of the .B - command will reflect this when the command has completed. .PP As a convenience, .I alphabet provides a pipe-like syntax. It will rewrite any expression of the form \fIm1 m1args\f5|\fIm2 m2args\fR as \fIm2 \f5{\fIm1 m1args\f5}\fIm2args\fR. This occurs before any auto-conversions have been applied. .PP .I Command may also be a .IR "module block" , of the form: .IP .EX {(\fIargtype\fR...\f5); \fIcommand arg\fR...\f5} .EE .PP The .I argtype values given in the brackets specify the types of the arguments expected by the module block; these can be referred to in the arguments to .I command (and subexpressions thereof) with values of the form .BR $1 , .BR $2 , etc. For instance, .IP .EX {(/string); echo $1} hello} .EE .PP is exactly equivalent to: .IP .EX {echo hello} .EE .PP In a module block with no arguments, the argument declaration section may be omitted. .PP .B Define defines a new module in terms of previously declared modules. .I Name (which must be an unqualified name) gives the name of the module to define, and .I expr is a module block giving the expression to evaluate when .I name is used. The usage of the module is taken from the types declared in the module block; its return type is inferred from the return type of .IR expr . All modules used in the evaluation of .I expr are evaluated when the definition takes place, so evaluation of .I name is unaffected if any modules it uses are later undeclared. .PP To show the complete form of an expression, after pipe transformations and auto-conversions have been applied, and module definitions expanded, use .BR ${rewrite} , which returns the expression's canonical form without actually executing it. If .I dsttype is given, auto-conversions will be applied to try to convert the result of .I expression to .IR dsttype . .B Rewrite raises an error if it finds any declarations incompatible with .IR expression or if the final type cannot be converted successfully. .PP .I Alphabet also provides some shell operations that give information on its current state: .B ${modules} yields a list of all the currently declared module names (including entries for both qualified and unqualified names); .B ${types} yields a list of all currently available types (giving only the types in .I typeset if specified); and .B ${usage} provides usage information on module .IR qname , which need not be declared. Additionally, .B info searches the module directories on all currently loaded typesets, and prints usage information for everything it can find there, along with information on all currently installed auto-conversions. .PP Finally, .B clear clears all existing declarations and definitions, and starts again with a clean slate. .SH EXAMPLE .EX load alphabet type /string type /fd type /status import /cat /filter autoconvert string fd /read autoconvert fd status {(fd); /print $1 1} define wc {(fd); /filter $1 "{wc}} - {cat /lib/polyhedra /dis/sh.dis | wc} echo ${rewrite {cat /lib/polyhedra /dis/sh.dis | wc} status} .EE .SH SOURCE .B /appl/alphabet/*.b .br .B /appl/alphabet/*/*.b .SH BUGS .I Alphabet expressions involving external typesets and file descriptors cannot have their I/O redirected at the shell level. Unfortunately it is not possible to provide a diagnostic when this occurs. .SH SEE ALSO .IR sh (1), .IR alphabet (2), .IR alphabet-main (1), .IR alphabet-fs (1), .IR alphabet-grid (1) --upas-dmrgorferthfjdubcflpwhaqqt-- From forsyth Mon Sep 6 20:14:09 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:14:09 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new distribution MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>i've attached the sh-alphabet(1) man page here, as it didn't seem to >>go out with the last distribution. i'm sure it was all my fault. alphabet had changed, roger was away, i had to make some executive decisions, and it ended up a little dented. worse, roger noticed when he got back today but i'd only just done a re-issue over the weekend to put /dis/sh/alphabet.dis back in, and put the right version of tsort.b/tsort.dis in (thanks to caerwyn jones for pointing that out). OTHERWISE it should be all right (ie, no worse than the previous one!). i've started to produce a list of differences since last time... still, it seems to have provoked the beginnings of a tutorial on alphabet. From mail.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Tue Sep 7 00:36:46 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Tue Sep 7 00:36:46 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 16:30:47 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([10.24.36.33]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 16:30:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 16:30:42 -0700 References: AAAiMxBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20040906T163042Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new distribution To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Sep 2004 23:30:47.0506 (UTC) FILETIME=[89A62320:01C49469] Is Alphabet the only thing new/changed in the new distribution? I made a = few serious modifications to the previous release, including adding some = functions from plan9port, and want to be sure that moving to the new = release would be worth it... From itic.ca!bootes Tue Sep 7 03:06:26 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from smtp.omnis.com ([216.239.128.26]) by doppio; Tue Sep 7 03:06:26 BST 2004 Received: from localhost (balder.omnis.com [216.239.128.60]) by smtp-relay.omnis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BFA2881BCB for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1094522420.413d1634a928c@webmail.itic.ca> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:00:20 -0700 From: "plan9@itic.ca" Reply-To: plan9@itic.ca To: "" Subject: ftl syntax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2 X-Originating-IP: 209.188.70.105 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I'd like to build an fs file suitable for `load fs' and use with native I= nferno for iPaq. partition show fs base: 00140000 size: 00800000 ls -l fsfile -> size =3D 786224 bytes what would be the right call to ftl ? disk/ftl 8388608 ? ./fsfile ./ftlfile From xaplos.com!macrod Wed Sep 8 14:43:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf13aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.61]) by doppio; Wed Sep 8 14:43:52 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.4] ([68.209.108.223]) by imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20040908130324.VHCU2078.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[10.0.1.4]> for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:03:24 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:03:22 -0400 From: "Mark F. Rodriguez" Subject: Limbo Performance To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.1.3 (Blindsider) I just finished reading: Is there any other information similar to this (i.e., updated findings with= newer versions)? Specifically I'm curious about C (the 'golden standard'),= Java (the marketing machine) and Limbo (the beautiful language). Thanks, -Mark From forsyth Wed Sep 8 15:12:48 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Limbo Performance From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:12:48 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-phxetyoryzruvsfxdejzndstei" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-phxetyoryzruvsfxdejzndstei Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's been so long now i've forgotten, but i believe one of the consequences of that work was that philw rewrote parts of the string implementation to improve it. i can't say whether it was before or after. quite a few things have been done since then, but it might be interesting seeing how the results compared. it has the usual failing of microbenchmarks though. you couldn't tell from it that on a Javastation, interaction was fairly pathetic with Java and JavaOS, but Inferno and Limbo were sprightly, even with JIT off. pretty good for a 4-day crash port for JavaOne by Tad Hunt and Eric van Hensbergen, starting with an LX/Classic Plan 9 port i'd done. --upas-phxetyoryzruvsfxdejzndstei Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from imf13aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.61]) by doppio; Wed Sep 8 14:43:52 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.4] ([68.209.108.223]) by imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20040908130324.VHCU2078.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[10.0.1.4]> for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:03:24 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:03:22 -0400 From: "Mark F. Rodriguez" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.1.3 (Blindsider) Subject: [inferno-list] Limbo Performance Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk I just finished reading: Is there any other information similar to this (i.e., updated findings with= newer versions)? Specifically I'm curious about C (the 'golden standard'),= Java (the marketing machine) and Limbo (the beautiful language). Thanks, -Mark --upas-phxetyoryzruvsfxdejzndstei-- From forsyth Thu Sep 9 09:17:23 BST 2004 remote from doppio subject: ipaq fs From: C H Forsyth Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:17:23 +0100 To: plan9@itic.ca, inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <1094522420.413d1634a928c@webmail.itic.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-gojtllxfvtnyxbqzuudfteibhu" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gojtllxfvtnyxbqzuudfteibhu Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you'll need the attached replacements for some files in os/. for instance, i added a field to flash and unaccountably devftl didn't change appropriately. i probably thought it was working because i was using an older kernel. i corrected several other small things as well. the ? is the flash sector size x the interleaving. it seems to vary from device to device, but 128k (0x20000) might be right. the cfi16:... print should show the values on boot. alternatively the handheld bootstrap should know but i'm not sure where to look. i got partway through sorting all this out and building a good file system contents for the ipaq and something else intervened again! i hope to get back to it shortly so i can produce a new set of instructions. --upas-gojtllxfvtnyxbqzuudfteibhu Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.omnis.com ([216.239.128.26]) by doppio; Tue Sep 7 03:06:26 BST 2004 Received: from localhost (balder.omnis.com [216.239.128.60]) by smtp-relay.omnis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BFA2881BCB for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1094522420.413d1634a928c@webmail.itic.ca> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:00:20 -0700 From: "plan9@itic.ca" To: "" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2 X-Originating-IP: 209.188.70.105 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [inferno-list] ftl syntax Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Hi, I'd like to build an fs file suitable for `load fs' and use with native I= nferno for iPaq. partition show fs base: 00140000 size: 00800000 ls -l fsfile -> size =3D 786224 bytes what would be the right call to ftl ? disk/ftl 8388608 ? ./fsfile ./ftlfile --upas-gojtllxfvtnyxbqzuudfteibhu Content-Type: application/x-tar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=ipup.tgz Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 H4sIAH8QQEEAA+x9a3cbN5LofiV/BUwf26REPUg9I1ma9UOe6E7sOLYzmVmPN9PsblJtkd1M d5OSMqP97bdeeDYlJ5nZveeeHSWWGuhCoVAoFAqFAnpzq6i25kVZbyXpclxPN+N/+6f/KKX2 93cV/lVqO/irDgbb2ztqsD0Ybm9vH+wO9jBvuLP9b+pXV/Svn1/9s7XWVmtqFFVZrF5No+pC fSijvJpGdVbk6pvoJi1VUmbLtAS4VpWmalyUKsurOsrjVNUXqTrP63Sq6jS+yLM4mqp5NGfo v/71+zxJSwRNsnxCwHfV0X314Zueej9P42wMWPDNkyeI5NsSUKh8MRvBn+FXB4eD/Y3t7YHq Fvk0y1MV1erq6mozQyI242LWg0LYpEjNF6MptIqpV6Mb9TJaZon6OsuTqq+SC/z779F0mk7K YhOJhJYlm2mywOLjRQnkluoinc4rdZXVF6oqZqlK0jrKptWm1FJfZJWuYVGlFbURqJhBw6ps Np+a1qhirPIU4aq6KIEdXDxVf3z+WsFrfJylSbaYqW6krqKqTrHIvASOFItKjZFxD3pqtKix ZBkReaNFNiXeZrVGMp7eqIgJGU2L+FLNImhBVKaqTKNEE/52GuXqK016N+6pwVdfHSCXXqiv 1auirG6gyd0xP/x7nZY/R2U2izbztEYWtz44LZ9FN2qUIgMSBdIRJdG8hkdAFuU3Rc4yA48q L/IN5E5axhlKyqKcF1WqadLlEPo8H6dlXiBVhwFVffXHrI7Um0WxjNQ32SyDMn3156K87Kuz fAINSyzhSwDNEdKVjQ/fqpffHmEr4osUOJSWJVR5AQWnyEvpY6JjktZb80XN7McSoygRvmp4 zC3TKi2XQHs1j2BYZDkWnkU1NqfKfk4RBppaZSPoHS6O2dhR86iMZmlNQ2ar3X6Y5fF0kaSq s9i86DjJzU3W09NstPoFtcJ/NUtnfkYS1X7GOK8ww8m5BL7DUOLMMQzgMcjhuErrYtx+CCkY dC2d0YWBNOu1uotpkU963cfdbrda6233Nk5nvV77YQrjftxu1zfzFNFUdbmIa/WqnuK/4zD/ dVpGVSp/Gm8/8NsP8radgkpQf2u3zqqLbFyrEzU47Le21tTwPweHJ8O9/ctjNS0mwy7BL/Ks 7iF7W6R/qnSCBZ4+5cL9duu5xvJVv8VYvjrZGwypyHPqKYJ/buCfvWYeQP72NcxgkPemmKIw Qs5/YfL798+ef3P29sUHxLpHtJXpNMVGgOq6YdXxSNWFiqdZmtfU+y1Qgy/Pnn//e8Tbh/Sb t8/eIYbdfvsWWg1ImA/YIlBOESrHLvcKDTgoDzLoaFFqts9h4NoivojKFkjvZb2YT9OPe5+O dWZRTjhvsG0z82sYjjZFeD7u2vdZ8nFoUyNik0mmfnIOurasXfgcW1O5OXPkuVvBcjQbBXXm kOeWgSE6qUwqLpLUJGBwgr5xC0fTmjvQzRxFs2ZmWS2HHwdYD3SAHgBn7569P/v65btvzt60 9netNEL/EPdBuVEPnb+sSIb+BOw7f0nCMoafPuc8X1Q3lHdAeV5xkDBQiAkoFpxWSA7HZZoa FILm+VWZ1ai0nPwU8xOQNdQ+IkeAmdUODivG9wGe3ovYH2ARfI+ZkO6CsJv3vY0BvH5R5HVZ TAmKattBKX8Z1ZHN2sWsd+l8CkrwbTRhavcx83mUWLCDbZZmzc3nH/789qw7AkUCv9RjZSjp WZBnL1++c0D+axXMm2+7ywhBtEKCVO/0lEethXv9B2Bud9SvCXTU0+O69/duDWqr7Wsc6FUw LlrXx/w3S1AyEL1oQZM00mNycsjSCZw5Zi7stQXDjrUpnEZtKoEx7iJ0EqIKkZOOagV6v/sG eHOMPTGGd60XMFOttWgGO/ZSMWphQxHgIjEhDTXmGQ9U1gSNF5QXhsOBSXCkFe+BSyd3gMKb Geq7rtVkrJuRvaIrsJRV3xsIs4FYLOAoAByFr7Fyfib1QpBiRgIpQkTlUlFxce73tbUWFWMU QHh9TSjAakyvcYKn8Q2Y8JUCM7IQO09TQBqztbJIvChL5ECNZvAYTUd80d0YqGyMNpK0w5UO xFMXNSgG0gLGzKBBXbnglOPA3w1aXtGERbAgdOXGMkMDRduNPJt1/+pbMk8c2tZQLXMbl1lZ L6A2Y3I69YxJ4VM1otFIGDJYGQg8JMEyiZDKyMiHZiRwKWYGwEQ3WkwmoO56inKxIFq1W6gF wZqKsQcqUxINufiCihLXcHhAD1GPxVOwPHnORQmNo2WaI2a1BDs3Ai4wGhpKrasor3+iAQVd +TMlSycJpmepZS1NE+K4pC+ial4WsX47J0ZgjQUazmiqRiN4VLD0Jg5gnTKYYSAzAxXxr69E pCVT9x5k4Dyl1nIwI1nKsykKUjUtapAsssoR7S2amvVHsih4NnOnLeDNJvOLgF/SI80fA7Jd 5B2wz3AOgEB4yzRxOIirgQWwl/idUSeK3TLN6hpkC23CiEaJVse/P/sw7M5JF897Hwefnj49 BE0Mj9ufei7QrgB1GXDHAg4/9czzwHl2Ebz9HmvpL209J90lTA6HvX6XYTHd8wrsugV2pMBw V0oMJWOwLxl3ogT1DLohbpEsQU/TCNWZwPjWGmRWxwaOhw3plNH0sgsQaz0DT1oSNRT0SBrX +FZh+b5iuUD9rZ9RYuC5uoD1gVqbixzpNJtdFvOyyBJGTYqa6hVMK4Ggi7uiLFe9zwC7i6MP w7umXxZainOBaRElUoAgV9UMDaV6fZ7QK1iquXRjnq3aR4U8BB2lmWugtOqXDKcGBGvNLqH6 Lo42W8RtGr0JqILFI0z2Uo3gv6d9AN5gvmlLsxF61Gl+mBH9XZKVYHZ9B1M8/kHd4tlc6uWz D8++O3/Z/amnuvjr9EQRlHr8WGH6qU6vK9IYRoqJmDYwArVJPEscAWQ9tDbO0im6WIBAlXOi 1/5b21dmoAdAdXGJOatHlfdVnl7lx6yTUZ8xtPoI0J9YrY+7glI9VUP197/rGtSp2umBLqRV cPcMDKWoRGZhCSBu45R0LzZTmqNBOzVqezVeTKcdgQcFHM/mXUYMw7ivOsDHTk+dgPWKda4A QF4JxEoysGGgTDcG8AwzahcT28cqh2YQQfC4vt5Dna8JJm2df9okPgBeUOv0nniA2J5yVS2N O8e5ABY+OSwIFjRT3DK6JrnNCtaBfYb6Jvm3OC0hA0+w8XWxmGp0A0C3Df8L72x3DIkPedIs MnSKpNMqNXBElkxsak0910YcNkF6DwGpBzD9iEEwA/MluZL/TouBW582bWtwSl7xnhf9iHbj TiBNKsNtGYJJRYXAyGakZA7gM1Lu2DHTNLcd08NugH8DhMNem9/AFKQ645plE7OiGrNskRVk scSouX5For++DnM+cCYcxrBQ/NUjmdKAfWuLRqnX8Q/AYljdA3dK/W+RUhoJIZ8tk1suUwxH YAjZd8SVjQ3KKNN6UeYyZELKb43qg3YjyybQZ7iMUmuxKP2+egkGcDRas5OcyihTrSVzj2fV VVbHF90MWxDj0uPl2R9ffvsB/j+C6pN0CZq7C3i732VJ72+kx3GwfPfh5fm7W5CFh3/qUEa6 hKl9e29vr6+gBiR9BKYwLvsI6/ZKbDgdMLZX59+c3bJooW5zUO7Dgn0lysFqAnFqaeAkdUg9 WKnf0Z/GwFZH99cJE1W0mNZHRiVWWgvaHmN92srUxokaHjNkhmqCa6QuboLfK4m6skB4HjgK mGsxytKSjK9Eom41MQ+MtM5LkIFu5ypLy+Qvead33CDs9i4Go06Af7nP6CaZYR4bgA0eQz1S 78AVbxr/LOB1F/UDCa7WCjgto+XafSwmrKge1tuVmWo1q5ABeVymlImwi7xRXKgg7LdNC2Nh zVseQ14FyNQGRoRJUlMtT9lg09CQl0UM5On1jegREi6jHvQMLIu33t/IHCkUrVVxhZcmRyqO 8ic1jn4wv3C5xXNXOj452SZLRasZXafSqyWWk6voMl3MifSNU1pBsjzcyoTYMqaucI+EYwUL bx3GsVJC1sGCHWrtsh5HnyLxT9gNIibvn/zpSZ9cjp6a+yGaXv4EFiciuoJnq+z4IY/NDMFC R7qNVC/WIsXV2tVPKDNXP0HjoUrCBCWxNBfL+c82/c96VawIKMOdjF139dPGKSw68/SuvFhm EG3Tmpcbp0DH5jyqL3o0Up0X0eKaBRdl3RFFpLmh8DFlmbDgtidzaXjAWgKOcaj1ZcC6rfM7 i1hczN35BFEWsyJJg8HXokygGcHxsctQzDDd9NhtMsq2N0D1AHL0qEx2OaBa6vEjM/FivnGa 5suNU3QOkRbpPTjx7MN5Ws5En6DYwjBwCcBqcMbRVu1vQRuz7BCLgDnU5JUScycD4hV93WJC Kf9uVlgtGYfaqaWw48gTontOK6hVhNCiCjJwi+Lxi2/fnr3p8bzAHYR6jldwTJQnJuQLoOrQ 02XlBMlQa6PFmNeFKGpLemAndCg94s1eE8eUykfHssOh1qJjvTibj5ibQjxuFqjHbHsgrVbI YYoicoAQIqEp6Pf3SuDD4i7JcdVJC6z8kTHsuTmPjGWvuykrqCdZvplvtmeNCJ7yKlYWTtDu OUMbgA1Z5m4omoHFqa/WTxzrcy7LBZ6wjc3vATjuOFTUWosH0A5UPsIZZ0svGXTFWydmFYFt kVywaKSoa81se0DrgPHUA6MqNAUbyuxOtCLIh25bYQuBWJiFaOsnmmz0/EN6GWSI2N8TS+gn mZEMECxGr2uBMYYQFhV/yxgtUE1wXz2G0fx4PmL1bF04BAVmJShq3SEgm2vP2Z5hWSDsZrac pTMA67Ip6gDMQXU41DTojbCrDcdvrZBHG90FO3SYU7dtd2SQ7DwQ/dY2Qjkp0wnJvu2hVSOZ 3NW/bijTSIVF2sf9XVgZycrs4/4nPZxxldZXl/3GwDYDH0oVZptJFSOopC/eQmar3rLxTT4z Lh0FsP0rh/fKYfpbRvu/Rvc/b3TnFb3Ax6uLbJp2u0vIMF5nHCGORwgpeWDcjWRaQ3etr+fs eWNt0LJmE4Y5zUmxt2TyL+ZAgYFsYQb6JDglayPAeyTbhDCgi/KG/HJmsSTaxLjuGpAa7vaf rr4e3KG/ClRghVZghetlSLVcoJ/94xJ3Cj7Ri6V6rLfrWUctXLXn6rylVnmRr9TYqczgNI55 T9vSZfble1wCN3YLGBDFNKFdpzy9kr23EpclaR6nlUqvs6rGTTiKTbnK8qS4AruFFjqjlDd+ kt/1ZHlDTcMYDF3rJ2hvF6i/fvp0sA/ioZaa70WwfnbpRwaiMtIRC9IPBSCizW+REeqHf6Iy /yUGaw6ijcgKgJolvY0Bjzv0Grq5WBfI4KxYppijLSIiCTU2MYZHMzzgHEfKm2G1i22/rwZ9 1VF/qbW0k/dAK96mO824OoZkXa5wSeMGzP1Oa97a1W5r413OtPe2RWEBqx240JviwnVmYQHf pn1IDrNTFwvQBhhLV2WTPILuSEWApKYdrkkcrkFNO3fVJOASdHXs4NsVfDybNVHu3onSlNjW Y0Zn0Z4mDIF5ccXxA/VVQeOIo/jggVquwWaLaZ3NcQ8ZQLMakak12pMVfDC8fk7Loo9hmjlu vquri6im8FAM3AQDO4sxYBOFt+LimmUaxQNxbJgMllVqCfY25z7Wr0V48VWXaH1gmIdYMMuF NcDMEajLlNa1O6XDmnpSvim0bgvs3HJpeE6jkpUEzl2XJzBzXT7dYRkfPH16SQsnbamoS/HZ tVqessblruOGslYE7oYzHWN2+fCWnrOV4RpEl4GfnZ0zKlu5Q6Tnxo7roF5Fi0x1Gl49Qmdg X7lza9X7YnUU//DFusbkDeRYiROVnQ5+x6PBa7IMhiO2ke6rlH1ZYa1d42Og9XWv4Ssdi2sM RHSg539Z9tqJd0UfyWw/Dtxo7Lk7bq9CY91nDcfGfQ1DO6/TOzn5n2vUKmtkRfnQHLEs0Zs2 NInK3ss6ziEZWrsCHUyY/yx2yZ7R/2ccc3a6cFz893Gt3Vql+sQUycX88BaM1uZvsa+5xrgm CsDBCJoVDt5LdomZyB/tka0W43F2zW5E40WUleax3nAfIxEIMU5kJcfFHAerIGIfIpk8/p4l eXvXJSGw6wNtmGCJxl6N2MWyrznO2Q3c03lRTXmCC3PHuCfMDcU32t0p235kYGl+O6DMDcc3 Cu+eestXJgRdi+OkLtCFb52S40mJ26sJYyBvArXqkp1948TpLc8tSEte7JkxTh6eV5BX4wmY hR/ff3j24dX5n745e7O+M1yjMGPcJEyOzQZhmwxMkKc6Gn0E4xR9cJ82To1XmYxLsT8x0ZNW xkW+fD182U20P+5xQqrdruGcdaV25G1C703qi+YmkA11QWkhjt4VXoR0c9imlsHC7nhmffUZ yCiW5F7gEESiDgYGZPRxQQILmGhq42qVtuhcl6XjyaQ6kJeeJ+TwkymfotuD+Y9tYhln5aRl mNlH+0paSDy3uBnXYNcjgF3WNbXQONinAQh2XVAuS6yvlG5lX56iSsX0oQw9UZsMXuCSUtXj gPqiAwbDt+9e/vDOUm+Ag0YYyYYkDLOehzrWKtvHzjvCqyuIVzBqRR240Dwhi4L7YFU1+Ibq OXv2skdLBixVgdqbpTraR5e2c4mLz9LEkY+wqv2MNjidxUJKyWxmWraPdRgLFDdrbM7H6QuH 3SUqg6yQWmUlJ9KCY00T2+OFGZLjei7QJY7BIvUW1j2OsinuFD6qyMBbwaS72XcrjrfTE7d6 5Liz/MQsWn7iaDCrTMu0BwGPsHjMeowhelrd2EUptVgvSnNYks9k5u+FC9Q0shUCh51F84ms wZCrBHXXom6wj5xUh2uD7aEs2wQrBQtX1WLGZwx5oYrLpqsShzjFs6Lqdys9uLfSfWvpYp3D 31YntRbgza4+rlIyXKVk6N0y65SMzB/QRCqTJYpWDXzSCMAoNCCVswktX5AwOrjM6GQfKUFa Lz1K+CCiLBgG6ulTo3gpkbFM6bNMmVSpzxQ1aklPHk0XieA4EbRp1GdE0lbB5sW1dfLC0tUh KXIcoTwBWskTFSIQDUQcoI4OAlZgtT0c2jHayq7NnWYzXvY5mPUo+585xFVHvHKkKw84Gzk7 lmAYKobbEAL92ATGGocGv8JzoQ4xZLgwUVxixXuX3Wh8ZnRGIMtBKeDR1e3rR5uH0wXYazwR mwzqCtGTdklK3aKMYS6LaN1wSw6lN+hIh2XRqeQrvao/tWkEWA8zpethfGIKpVqkVVwNDfUH c/oRoTp59BDawJjkGQuAuIXSxm2THmB7Qiqx6rGDZy7l7AjJijkyWXWsoLpSLkQ9kmOzyOyH IOrXR/RbWkjPREQxX8FrocpIoEiCMJX7WfxL3NcMpQffcy2hks2gz11YM1BTD5ZkSdCenpp3 YENBZrfrShjvL/TWdmENY48krkt8FS5oZAfCP/yC2gXPDuojIXM8laxP5fChwj45tfAQGsh1 Oh2z05fHtA6dBIpwetdmnZ6RPdqACAbjpo3kDJht6Jop7xgaAnfKZyu3WdOieVDMK8BYFwVY cvmNe6TF552UU1vKRX8nEWrNh5Pe8gDCkb1CArzBEBK5wfJEB+ELhSNhdFODlQJanZUH6WIG RqkEdHg9AouipUQ/j2z8j/HEWwPXgVlzjF2C6hmRFmZ5ZbhP3CJ0QMs1A6kmXiiCXnAw3Wk+ Wy9CMW+4nf1Z9KklA0wbM3vaEwWktbM1tzto63PQM/r9bjg+hynAwDlehSgdl42weG5LZ9C6 RNvjq0hkArEFFCxsTjFw5WH9ZnnghXO7QjMtJnSHgh6Nj0ihJmKLkLLiSZ61OhOPxGpvvTSH pn7XLa+bSUGSq2LE043TjMxsfTCVicNdGGqWbMME/DV7VZa1pgTTKXjlta4QmfkZmfnZY+Zn LwRTNs4+f3LcEm62ppiq0DtLDjOTxXyKp6BT98z0w0es87nQMdt/5jiL9ji523hOdKfmFVdG 0iF8sXThBhia4qnuJo+z5y+NY9aIGpbQwJ6t5rWGqAd5gAbwTQukL+icFT3hXpnoEP3A/UDP olG4Q66l+dxZiIyfEBk/ITJ+GukHt08d7nz//uylsO1WT8Uibqd6dOvupPae+jtanSznUTbG FZMoBhonNNkiol87rn/bWHRIohEXkHNHB6/qR39FGONsC93lH/bUxjYUIfSOLDnctcy9bftc fMqbP8w6HUfhM9l7P/BtbmE5GUcUIEFTkD7/4lXjFKQWQWmvKUd6twoWSj98++61Xh2KX86Z cTdOnFmWzhRmVVws3IOw3tnPwBiARqApoJEGsRcMtQEg7t6jPsyp5IIOQuySthLLmrm7YQvx tX2H8P0xy/p0mhO0zG6wXDytYz+AueFbcbZvZK3uvddyazPvLdHTsXVGfiXiGWczmtlo4RrO aIFatMKf8UZYy8/Ww9/JRkPjuP2lWPt7DnC4PjWKcd6yN+7Q1TqpmgBIcqOi6aQoYWE8U1dp NrmQq2dE+SUF2FhVms7Q6pqCWiMkBYad5gAfkUHsnAFX3Xi8Sev/9M0fb9Q4g3qqm6pO6faY Ld3d2jfZHqVVHRfzG7/P3aCrkQ65zLAvRnZ432NRtMWPoeVS896ZCXlaeaCnlUYWXS7BmRxH Idoc8tpsWnZHqWPHGR2P6mJkUw4KHIMjneAtXmpOakcFNtYPn0bmIPnO6SLNnXFZzGyqLrzh YsPYzOUi5N1dk3sU2NXM4Rz8BsPZ8kKGmblIRetF8q06i0NSZkgcWuRghHdpPdhD2bArQ6SQ Z0p+0sZOXehnFE9M4V0P2lJEycU8yNKv+S33u/e8GFsL3ET4ZOTbc2Ymx3W/wgGN9aEv0Awb qdgtBqOTjkBjW4yJh6rNiz2y7Vo3d/zwrTF96IXtTz2YRgHBEEuClp1Flyk5XXGhiKqVYtKY VcgQs5BwuMGtlxbnI93caKbuXj/o6BqA0j1Bj1yc2E8mEfNfusNL6rtTdJrE2THsHVVoqDdD UY5sQRaOQWQ5nYfSd68cmQwJYbIZWO0RjRMqix4AueyjZekSE9KYmc7BJ7/qx/bSE1LiLiDX J7esHNG1E+i7xNCtPI3TqoKZEO+egmbrAC9e2PJRlZCYVQQ7hjAfXNMxZpYA5+4XymwtyYpD VIICzAfAiTe1+Le48OuMYp7Ea81+BvROQaFTb4bW2793Gch0SxdU+yj5dBKO5mt3WIOmWUrd TR6sZIJ72Iu3lv2oZXagO9piPVsRt3z3uDPQhMgtYuTc9JHfH+4NPUdfKnHLM7Y7BwWCT35U OaANLNABdI9td/qdC323xMmH7ynSazXe0jplA1T3V10EPWO6QW5dUPoARpNN5poddNaJDkBx B11/pLA4e6r+ee0KSUIiaEmrpejYUa388h9TrM504tDuziOc5vFA3F4/UVbNbehiIrSe9epO FqvOAOKUjWFsJhyJg9Mj95CTHFaJemgkyH0n5CK2+e5JO33sza8kKfL0V1dycuKH1JPVrbHg WT2NqZyEB2DEAvNMszy1W8NQ5HjV7OqqmEusAqMzUnOAc55eZ/wappT6oiNhhTK0jo95y3Ka pt5Zv75yeUw+Pc+wb7JPzPZgr1lXr6vVHoq7rR+vPTYGbcrrUStShM2PoG7yphmBG0TfULA8 Cqy2kh1crvE59ha2KEq5b/sagE89p1geGsFox9J7buukAGvuVcSL6QxjJMQWHUvkNMBJ/BJa ZLSA5z96Oa8kwQ41S0+uvQB5Grzx/T+2YY6fp+kTa6WeBaljB4zRRACu3agzrk2Jf9RTB12F nDr6VQKE1x58SYg4aYcw0+uff8ULlXg4eaFXgXi5R11Rhbi3n4SHhH1x8uRvlV2NM8hNsVAw OmcP+FooT/ibsh+Kvm9rA/wDosKcIdackAzFwREtUinEzU0TQWqDQfElMdRRKyE7Ec3q08Qe M316dfMs/3+6v5kBYDOihc+Q+NT1Qt2H/dxXruo3um8lsX6tru/FTG/BZGDv2wkWm/qYsg5e SoGUGyc8a0SXPrZlXHE4BcEct9kEGPWlzHE4uaeOVYKn9Nd2wTbpq91eMz7MvdRphbvg2Kx/ Px83RFArRL6Mrt1KCr3xYLWPMcXcw9KrXQU8QvW0YqORRNWRh16UDPrpU21DaSe9+LaRWZ8/ 4Zh6bhE2jqh87pvlkja3bSfKlQmsw8IMUXKf1weS1zyzY0yG1Dl88pnf3bYdvEZZNnDctZDI xcGe4MXLFJfJN5vluOQ1LlzPn24UXzB9ytS8vp7ZxQw5z/T8Q6qDh1FmYneoV5rjd+UBQ7Ld zLVW/q1geWGHwlo61/lro7lzN9NS5O9anCi48NLOQbvuWmqJw8M/AGKtf33UhJ7+i9387mk2 7Eg6ByUlrn1OYFE6kW31t7vB+PH6050bZ3FRlot5LS573jQzdxHOycWDOyIbp/4uELGFPfAe odhXwCVvaF1TO4Fh2AhYvG5fv4IfR/UPjt0z40071bsVzesdPTPT2E9EUfHUTJ2TY9AItllf jtzSN9ZiEz86t9EijbdqzfWQ4SLJXLGV9Xk//r81nuDeGALodqiaF7mm+/WmTNvda1AbvNVP kcccIARjg3cp2DdtVbB1xjneJe19munt6y/4mPAAMTALO9ZE/UlhWE7Z25K3KdTuerATvhjw i51j67Jy368P+6rz4vw9CN6OIDW3LQvO3f0gX1DuHQT5Q86n7QmnLv1+fQeqAiNusL0NtR1I bblYogM9p820CdhX1hSkxaz2jyRS1AS2UH+ZG55nThgLvTHxKhqLjqricqh/Tk9dULdGDqNy wx16DqVzJxbCxpawJK2tLiLXRvedS5PZW3CVqmh6Fd1UKo6m8WKKu8T6Nn6UUkMRYBDba8b3 N+hTs5CM+UIOlBe/F/i+aeiB83w86LAlYGgyV08LXp3vODbM2GvaGhoEqHKGPcLRkkGHW4Q7 zuaCKxz2aydql4dwcSVRKDCKtQ/Xd9AWS8F4v4fW8begflEZuiR2eQHNDot1siu0M8X1VXGP 6B066IWZjrVc1fR1wxztAGISHce3PyO6IX//8GWZdq4sRKOWpE1/m4r+rbqqXCplndeFkrA0 hbM1DbF1DkmCjPVAw8qeo2Pl49znBoT47kxgcNEQtWCZhtSmMwzvcTQQ3tXm6yAlxwhx7wlM UFukOVycA2bSE9BGuijWaBSetKVfnLdO8CbySZZZ1vPJUQp2sMh0jd1o5cZs79kwAis6ZCH5 U/c/ME27tr92Sx4722D21nC2Vkjcfqvg3LF55O0WsYMBeNQUBBl2gTR4wrBSFsLZiA+v/v3v bZSFe+XAxllrOnVs5yHFybKlV2UTDuQ0SrPRmLTJsVRzzIvHchgScu+WVodoxOLyS3txtODx VGn8LPDGXMngLRCphK/xpaDsuFoAOydbqqwPiKJDdLd6VaAX3kwhplHpHdyz5STb4aW/uF3N WW/167S6Gfsk+8wrAs1C91bgD5M6U65RO8cblqthtTOBjZxtSHGoaXZLjTzE7hgad5zf8cdG KvuRLit47K7tNkYIX5ZNC0jcbKZP+Bi7w/fqubPqyN2/8DYuZBHOS3+ToFWKiNJcq2lamJlv RuiVmrl6oS1rZXvvgo41XwYLfCNx1yai312tS/yhv59mF/ycYQ5w6F3OpfftB3pzx8bWvTuR ctE8MleztSWt58MZO/p8u+Dho0MT0Pxgf5ycUql5hL6pbJIXpdyf3vp/vHvpORrcfUsW5cTu WoYblN5iXQWXdHBXEZJ79hYbG7tksVEeBWxplh03WGbwuLvVv6jpX2q5v+VtWuGworHdaZfn Tc+hDXcyU7L2J6eOPrA+easfXMe0g0tf5L1ire/f6bS7Ta7H4HYie37jlwWzMNUYefnvztkG o7irnIHp2hHRiHiBCcy3XHL7WvS/Vwyq16fiWLAlEK2vGBGfAGZE3/7w7vzD2R2H47iSf+xQ XNPZex+TV9ysRXy/k89385Zv7CK29tEd2PPmSDqKbLmzygRYyUZ7eZ7mHDptG5zjMD/+xgUx 55/EPvfGfGGfwzCfk/8Y++iuwP9G7tGhzPuYRycziTO/nXUv0yW2mI9mA3VQE96fasJNSeXR Xd34xSUAwyUtfi0MA2RBx/FTdbGok+Iq71Ob+R5WfsYLUvkJO4mf8Lwsl4uhCXXKuRTlyY/Y MAYYyeNY7peTXOe5TNFBwc9XXMftcftf/f+/uP/p+69I3FY2j37Ch83Rr/6I6Bd+1L3ff93Z 3R0e4PdfB7t7ezt72/uQd7C3v/Ov77/+T/w8bD9U2PNtfJCgeRordMayokgi84wjCQDbFH1N Zt95Tre3mo9HVjfV5qyDxsZNddR6f1O5L5MyuqK3bedjkzf4LVQucwnz2h84w8OZxguQ4RsG ihb1xZF6tsBLKzw8oyIqkwB9dcEZ53ROYVYki2nKMcaQbo1zXI/hR1GeF0U9x2aDKYN7Sbka DA/xayr4kVW6/v3oBKwkTG0jvod4yD9PoELzoVJWM+aIb9VuUw5mVFg6Ksvo5uMndLQCAQ/V CKoE5RLN+RjwNq5W8AN68EMb5E9qyIEVHmgUXMtIFwgE/D3Ev3imh17zRzt1Nu5N7Hrvx5XJ w5iNjnwLBjsfWJFF0wxNs/D4Nbye0fkMfuPEwsMbRMsnPyrmB6x2IlVdpNMpfgRWbg+cRTms CkqSGtz5ogkEcID6RK+aAhHBfxunb599+JpkQL8RSdB/DQQKgIZBMaBf5i1MFARgz0RE9Jor RyO7wtpGQF23swXTAP0iCl6/O3v7TY/Psk8u6sWc4WFxEU2LS+xDCb+ejqtuz55ueqhg8fyk 4osnaoyIjviqxBKILC4Bwq0y3yKEW/lyXFH18mBJ+Ds/voA5DSxCnJa6ZSxXuQARhIxug7HI kqzaAlmHP+bqwDK2J610E8QX6lxR1O3QO7dr6ZNheGZGn63O05qb7zTj4ZRpT2ufe1Qnc+kB lSMOMYYAweB+DLRPSBiIVDMQ9TgcdI7NLRkaDAbuOJvQa/K0JIVUdu7URUS8fvbqw9m73jF0 3vlbB3BOgPOymBhIlgoAxFwHNCZQGAEBpAJQIKQqQNVY6LoBbSlgt6fCz1k7JbK7SmAFqEod 2JkD+z7APi/AFoIR6Erhw5QKgJHjEf/3ypM8KAwQWVnkqOt9BM/uqbGYo/KAFkWLJCscMj90 +lImZAGpOlWBjZPmtGtc0OetcWYySqZVZ7MUBfUIF500SbRK1KLFoozdzHicGHGl+2ao0i3s FL7YhgiWFRcLa8y3pYjKoJJjWS3jNTAdYLe+jcJGdXZt7X2lieuBhEbVpX3VldGHO6wop3p8 GgD3AKL4o1At1yjw07tHv0Ww3rlDAegPRNFAf1Spi6jC43ukoxnOXCVhutZtk6MbuasMRoIX K1vuh83wA0wVfiBwC5anJdnYFpmp7W+meFAdt4LFKrMa8fnZK7Dumzox3NCJ6Uog8h7jnQQ1 VIH6ottBGYLGtlo00mqt5ei7RbgdeoVsBaURU3SN7saQ9koDsCwhWAe3Hq9EgHQ5lKLOw3Kr rOMOiZIpJ5lUaGuUTeg0Ix5oNJNSfIEffgGmC06rQGl27XbyZLSV5MgbFIdj/0Xs5CM/YE4f lbBiIE1IcIs5mTE042xJToersmNF8vUgsQsrffsSTfBHMgG/KGYzHK7v7QxM6AjIKeUJzLtF nlNEDi/EpEbuVSop0zXd1gM2XEcdHSnTgiPTeO54/IoE0oN/pcfZJCM2dmngrZg6ccRczeB/ M2iA7uLSTJq24Mpy02JS5CuK4sYmUlJcdvEPbyRczRoMCwkQxgGky7WmIqO+Q8xNNcbR44mH wFNlpMkeoZgQaVSkZYeNdhdX8+gqV1cztxemeDE0mq4dIhlHqWYCPm+QObBBzyB2tJYkOe1s LKS6W64Pw9Wl7zyZIItcvqlDjNLoUZdoSwRs0HsEj+TO3clDtcdd52kqKv+oIsR9g4BvXMWv +egtHuZDdbFKGlkE2Z1WkktVzz99PEgAyDXHOJfMXuhnUhHQBijAFEsehv9Avz3ZeoKypwFP REw665Kz3tHCcodcC1wgzn9jnA3mCbTIHkI4U9G9vcPso+HrVGksS2YdvHF5B21G1iF7jEtF TIMxzJ+WgRRlc0QfChX/u50vEFIges7p9FX97MxIprexeI97zhj5bV6PRfElZbWbo+7hB5Lo u4yHO20HGnCEVA3gP1yddbhyXHm99ycjXmrnS1jn4U3R86KijzEDqDObJen4yBWppVlaoqxh KA+YS3gi9g7Ncf5SG3xy6Z5ugO14UghuQbABt6T+Owo7GgePrZrVLrHqzbPXZ6+f/emTJhDl JC8NdeQZNFftwfpb6ZOsHAkLoKesVumSu3JjQEGg1NQnf8lpvAA+jhjGSZPgKZeOcUGh7aO8 /MRjutE4nMzDxt3ft7wTgBQvmd4ld2nDhLACjTkwtZueOwLZnGD3ifWB1sB2044wEQlBX1ob 5b3XGSv0/8h2xv6u1wWtfEUXSAdsDMx8khM3eS5BaplYbocaIWvlYCfCwvunDDDYL4fbYt/Q a6fwNtq36IqsUwkMxasjMLTa+iISPRvdmkUelhcEOohJ+Oq1mBQjZAaKUUBNu0A1ovZQzizp 6TosZNWGV9ocdZdek2nTNhAgNyMsQhOdMXotwFdf7RwO9w92D5hDx6G6xbLqKirn9piZt3cJ mHjyuVvkAISkjLTE3QLUEHjlKANizl3TACLyGWRmARNriJ/MGZmqIx17shglru2susG40mJI dic/3UMIb4vhlVoriEEmlUvjdTIIRPzoe/IKIDY3N3l1t3LlmGbR9m9T/qPBYA8GAl+RuFL5 IG6D2F646vbDPbYM9YLBw7ZS2AeWxen1vCiFMrO0O/vT22fv//zmBU+n99TFpXE6FYcFJldX CWwnJN5c5TKHn7NpklbdYU++VWF2NSvuOTbGsOjTDbyKOEf9ldHnw+EtIE4T8cq1V664j/hb rLSMYnPiiL6TQQPEJaxOMqsNhSoKzWV8ZDh12MWqrb9j3/OkAQGORYvXLJzLsEIUL6IsOGUH 0L7vKwReX1nDbfu7RVreHBkPBY9eIl1WF6rLPDs50V+OAJzlWNsGloGykDTrPtaSUljiKUmo PuLoxKvteFI283ELMVcfj+zrho4L6zyiBTcbQY4YtPR9l41VpAXvyld/4pltLXGB1qmaRUov SPHpRNVT5a2RzJWRtECKZ311kSh9wCjGOLFOv2O1vVum9/FR9QleYwmprcdfPkI2gF2Anr0u SZkPg448DophDc8RLXjHPjX3D7KpsXH6jmzIolQ265sUY+5PfQGJ5qAPkq6to4/ttDQFhJvv KunwX0UydOzV/bLAj4uf6uZY3A10Qb/BPzH8L4osTu2EDIKd5tnPwBIY+H+plXFZMaC7CNE5 bp3FvEZUQAi/PdaMwxfItzVNrtdUfc8YbryIi/JIPXlUPZErQDm40QxzRqEPlvHiT/t1CFAG rg9nXPKdleBm6HIpHubjiorJq55126/GakCtI4pr+O245fU9yG9Fq2thHie4TTjmGeTVy76W Y8fE5Qc+0F/BKzM2vSXCYNu1SjO9y+LqsFWGKlj12dEns14AFZNpIcJbpgaOMxVzMVaBvu6t T9edsgLMF/XYYIdnOgvBV2BnvZ41fUmNaqOXVxQA/UkrGtX9zISrz1A5KT3nmKQM6s+fxNh8 8pfRE+kkdtQye6wVwd1DmSeKH6BGRMuJDVGnrSeLJ4/B0h68Muhckf/P753vphl8oh6BitJS wVlrK9E8Qp8lkq9R4XpcTnyiwqfrhDGNF7Ttl4d6tWABH7gzg6Hlo23QJ5otPkurXKaceEwx ny1gYdPgOoKfikjmrdvsO6siKO7QT7JYxI49kttq6LPimGGGQIMCGBOidJfW+J423D9hhvg1 3Jv0BfPSGhiSg/MQOU6knj7PXcaPwMdmeB/v5bfvcZq4HFf+ll6FktvY31XT6Ib2ZmlHk0wk IeyB2bzudh6+2qLUlo786/SV3dvuObTTnakZn3wnv49TtuqsgsyqS1RRD/+0NZZvxrtQ08bL Y/xsB/rPxBo0ez7irENvHJSJZRdhKykqtO5lY4FTZDh1Nsb818HO+TP+a1Su9IfxrQPVTzdi Z7i6TfLOfl7NokkWs/E4xlvk01w2s2BgYpgCNd5dt9k+CBciq9b7oefGOcDq6di9wdBVsqv1 qed7ETWqc3zc2bjrqMLh3v4R/FtHWG4wDXh+DEq+e/79q/fn/3GGBGT0iUgXjYMiwLg+oPvf oGKD4ZGCVnnoyYenD/1ieGtwv830bmbPLa+YU87UdmwdkPNsnnbnxu3o9vuvE0ro+C2gxoil pEUAn8nfnP/Oooyf2HcswjiXT5LdK41zPlXqaRNqCUV1dOf261+uhXFHJIIeANrpjS06Ctrc V74XYpUrHD+u4xkP5tIOz3XFHAdt02Uv4tkPaGaMk80xeZEH+Gvo7gZRgWQx7xKMc19G0+8t Tm+ss3IX2e60t9rZbXwcsXq6QQsyvCqWQpolHoEcdpXr99YObynDvXGbXscpGaGK1jadNTHc BLHFueblL/LLHA1yU5yrlanAfmFAx2rRX7xvQ6+UrWKP6QYg6RPS5UfWlRwOEeSVRuWIGcl+ qKsoODx0aNAW+728djxKxOt45cUqfFvfkbmuD7UEEe9enOm6GmK77UVwdI3mU2PZNch49JN1 JhEdupSlKLwqwDKZV8ee3uEpulaL+T0TME5BbifJ/EkFZumsqbIyirZd0Rtug3CHoVkn9O6j anNzkwVaaljp/OK58R7P15f706AQdq7o0aC/qLsyOhJSuQTaQwXNqgi80dK7q9TsXtFdXgyR Pv5ho48CPbuKa+zZoDIctdf5ZRM3DqV62kCW1luddUPBemcrngLpK3vE+TTTL3DdPqkUoTKC bippeBCdbQT8as6XrAntvzWWxIk7Yx43B3HOATWYTWMgOwatCNm07fMxJYvC7PjAO+eTOt7S DBaFqb6NxNMBqJFYB1Srg1iEP8BA359cNbmjHRx4ZUu6PtD6FwWKthxlDDvjHvoQ72TiYEp4 wQtzSs3dJbOMbZcu9FbMlbinUdi8qZMZ/EBXrXeLmhKUzbNxbCSn8iXHl8emp415w67mAJk7 xDzTg5ZWq0Y2sYh4yePbCp2zIeON8GIxTWh7yBbd5viocRR/gQLTKTzSzWbMPUza3lqp8Joa 787xVaYhrwjnvZSKm76bkS1qnbLZfKUz1q16bY2Xd+J9y+bWHLqD8USZRDOvBsbg3keVMugc Jyw1fWXPoqh27PC6qxcRzOXFrQpsoZa1hr6EhJvsfn6AVsOlz8RxZdh4LNshDOWy1GazV5sh Gq5tyT8RAPFxW+DjoHcsBUcCdqLdpJSy3G07yKl9+jy9ziViyd1iMjrbm/RfJzD9KWqXVp51 PO/g2uiiuEKlVs3TOBvfqGz6O+DVMtbB7Tnd89N50MGrIxg9Jvfhp2MC1KRJCW7+kAmBrWAc pJ1o7zW2jl4E7AqAu36WzdfVc7lgN3rXVuCPmtuAqr/kL4o8T2O8/p2tG6nt0tsgTkuzDx92 FQaSp3nNnwzRO4KtiCaqy5InOIwmz/JxoTtWHEHGhQ3Qd6kIt7jySttDkVZBuCXrki4p51j8 qFJ/zYtRkdw8cTaHW914M8FhCO2jEFSKeo+nWYoIctb7UQbdg2CaWkrcSXBk+UFLCv/kJlZ0 hyrzO4bJ1vIisx7JS7zpRG06lgQvT6VBtIaSUm6wMmgcEyipQz58L0WuVZFLjUSTOUQDvTLc XKf1CrMOlCbruHtDaL68a24xmeA2TY8sDtuBB8c9n+IZX78gjsbhcEbhMWSN3UElHf35RfR1 8xpH+7Rata9j/Dp994OR7Hy3XygXtYvbVVNah3dIUbMg0tfZ0dHJ+0xutK//jlcQ0+oL/Bel BhNbmVY63IT1LLX6jmZW5VI2m7AyX7C1Hi+XPeduykpuknECcClSK5r6k5J5785MXQS7J/RH oo8xWv4+K4Ux0Jf5w1majC6oxdkLci19vQp1ttuPtSMrQQdRl9acx7gnj0/HbPrqF0duQSfq wvhxXn377g/oyJEWF04D+YDjKvY4jeyrw3J/d1dPJM3oC/QAFeICojCmOGqGK7MfjtkYTXVM JSpEn/0kiZDnhYDqYh3X++T6c7AUOXCOjBljVCMzGF05pHlabRO27Ib2+btnvLthBEeifwG+ R9x3wo2bawkOh2pEPy+qElaVOgxYqnBCmLvJJn7+Wj1m3r98/fL8HV/GQ1UCMb6j777tv1/u yr4rjnAwPPz14YOZFwuoB6e3h6ejApubOv9r+n9zC+O152VRFxTjOq5+9RHSL/7cf/53uHOw O8DDEMP9wfb+3vYQz//uDIf/Ov/7P/EzLvK6aremizhLIhDSZ1Ow+WCyvdocwLLCzxiGGbth xn6YcRhkDEOkwxDHMCyyE1a7F6TDSg+CdIjwK52uLqIkrZyG6oxhmLEbZuyHGYdBxjBEOgxx DMMiO2G1e0E6rPQgSIcIuaFni7L4Biz4XDfUyRiGGbthxn6YcRhkDEOkwxDHMCyyE1a7F6TD Sg+CdIiQG/qqKGd0FZBuqJMxDDN2w4z9MOMwyBiGSIchjmFYZCesdi9Ih5UeBOkQITf092n+ MoviMqt1S92cYSNnt5Gz38g5DHOGDczDBp5ho9ROo/a9MKNR90GY0cBqmv12kcduoyU9DNK7 QXo/SB/66WGAbxiUHwbwO0F9e34yqO3ATwa4uGlfeypXp4ZeatdL7XupQzc19LAMvXJDD3LH q2HPTXj4D9yEh4HJ/yat67ScZpepboKbM2zk7DZy9hs5h2HOsIF52MAzbJTaadS+F2Y06j4I MxpYudmvo/ri23k10I226WGQ3g3S+0H60E8PA3zDoPwwgN8J6tvzk0FtB34ywMVNe/Pth/MX Z/Dw9gLs1TqLdRttehikd4P0fpA+9NPDAN8wKD8M4HeC+vb8ZFDbgZ8McHEbY75VULfMJId+ ctdP7vvJQy859FEN/bJDH3jHr2jPS/nVHHgpH4005qbMplPbTzY9DNJME+6Q5oMm9H6QPvTT wwBet9CkA/idoPY9PxnUduAnA1xfeYQPvZTfqH0vdeimpAE65ZUbepA7Xg17bsLDf+AmPAwu wc81q50k2t5ujlshJUMAl1pKhgAuYZQMAVz6KBkAeOyhZAjg0zBs0OAxkZIBgMdXSgYALqsx Fbz229hootsdmApe+9Q1iPO77Cv/9Ysf/E4890jlt40Cbms53QBxWcrpBojbaE43QNyWcToE 8TqX0w2QgJawfzErqCjsYcjyupjTIUjAuaCXISdocbPBbkdTMgQI6GyS6XY2JT2A87Czw949 9zv3vNG3537Xnjd69tzv2PNGv5773Xre6NVzv1PPG3167nfpeaNHz/0OPW/057nfneeN3jwP e+/c67zzsO/Ova47D3vu3Ou487Dfzr1uO7e9tsgz/B6D000mZ9jI2W3k7DdyDsOcYQPzsIFn 2Ci106h9L8xo1H0QZjSw6maz46aK8qrtWG2jYpowgxx2uJk7KzL3V+QdrMg7dPPqm3m6qryT b3CksGAPUgZXVkcwxzdo9rN3Vmbvr8w9WJkbCFNjTDt1hNhDvKsx/uggqEaAXz8M9cOufjiU h6Hk1KUBx0cukOm8zMnZ1Q+H8iAoDAJTvNTApQYuNbCtTteWp1eVwxFK7nupAy9lmr5KCFYJ wD1DdCfM+S1j4tqMRxgWs7YzIOJFWaZ5fLP5lZY8ozcmaT6HpTi9wQ/KX9JTNo/orzTBffQ6 HHDRy2oxrxYjegyH6CyrYsjev5b5BB526OHQfcBBQwncEnmNNEeD4SiDhlAuJnCsm8Sirgud yNw3pBF0ohpF5YWbWJrENHHeQELelGVxhbokquIs29y7PnCfddM5A1vkJYwCcIkducSOXPpG Ln0jl76RS9/IpS92Uccu6tjlQ+zWE7v1xG49sVtP7NVzEZUbA3moWYKqouR3ZkUCicQlKHEJ SlyCEpegxCUocQlKXIISl6AEt4NAdl2hSN26U7fu1K07detO3bpTt+7UrTt16x679YzdesYu 6rGLeuyiHruoxy7qiYt64qKeuKgnLuqJi3riop54qGVgH7aDQZ4Ws7QuMxyUPOAR4sIl5MIl BFWBQGQuhKXuwqXuwqXuwqXuwqXuIp0uR6IR+HlonkvP8tTjzEmFcxToDz8VTlIewKEL4Hi5 IDmL6ouB/KUpYTEb4Sf1KuJcMXVGQTGdTIXOqqZfRvWneG2p1eROdT9H83G7BTODp51ZgzjK xLZQ0kPnMXi17zzqV766z+NoOr+IrO43M4c/E4yjfFIV+cTJGY8TKnYRofDobEh9dlKXC5v4 nFXhQoIYe4f9ce+8cugmaJLxiOOUnfP0HHTYXjkd3WlCrpo/UesVObybT6Ms3wQabjQ059A3 +fysHD+9GORNo3KS+llLL4+ts6CsZHp1SJ5LiWStwudWkuHFj3hvbJIVcT3dHGUAOMomSUpX M3E6LsbjNN32E7OoutSpgftq4L0auq+G3qsd99WO92rXfbXrvdpzX+2ZV8A8yccj6lkkqSo3 D8wxSnmtS2dRJvlpvkzxVnFOjbPpjJ8mUfZZV8DPDrJJmdUjUAmcykaxPPBFe5yY5lf8MIvy xTiK60UplcyKZSaPZDfyU0Ef0+UE3vY5nQqiObpp5TH7+WdpZplOsgpUlaQWQirkSAPqi6wa LcqJEFkv8dgZPy9BKvJFsRRUV9Au/eoqHcnDZ6e9ZRpvzEeoSBLOYJ6XGxrApEs/vQjeL/T7 NJmkGxduYimJ8Vge8GC9PM4y4XBrHmGQhjxPoxv9WMz106LSaIFq8yR90aqmWaKZJol5hCo/ 13nzNLq0ELVBXN3kusPjqEzQJlxzFAM8E8Ocdzg23SReffyojR9+GS3QdsHMFkoiPy+q0oiQ SrYPDvaUTum/FJJCwSqSAyXXm7CtJlySARVQeRTPMLB6Hcf/dcZPpg3rdCffJT9NohleMouP IPugRqacmGYjaUdc3sxr3Q5QKsu40ilYQxWXqUmOa7ArbIurC3nGaZWxzubphJ8qyamWaJBY lPP5XD/yuWWduqjreSIJZDkXv5oJlaNyUS8MliSLyhtOXKY3yeheRhMEnjj8MhAdFoUmPltA 00HlRj8+e/HBTT5HhuQbX2fIR5v9zdfnbvLN+x+8ZFEig2zGd4s0xeNceeLmvi8WPth7UDa1 m/EhAuHMs8jN+2MW10Xp5/2QVl65P8M8X1xleQ5Qz8vo52z647O4TE3iZQokFvmFfX0WIQZJ MLoXZ8CJF+8/bL54iQ9RHiXAnhpaUaPRKRkvUP/hBb+SRkQb70HVR3V8kV5FufcGOsCkX2Mw NEylJuNNejWGvIT5JJlvozgbO/X9eXGJQv8Cg3B/xC9qgboBNFOdxbWcC7NfLEbQxjNsyRm0 5AxbcjYh+f/9842zDHny+9eQ+fV7/AWmyCV+3rx1HqeM4LzEFpxXZZRCFf8ngnEfR/gwx/xv stENpF4j/teA/zXif51ew1z94/Poc4SCkHo57xelSf8+xQ/jAdo3/4H/fnzx9TMo/iZaRp9B Q7x99wJ+AdK3iPRtwfToZfW7b1/grz+0W+9hRRXNC2zJh0UJYo1f1Pvx2RS7gB/L7Oci52fT W/BMPXWew9CSl6aD4Pnr6CrKMnp8ncUX2STifNtpkDB9A8/SLz9svP8efiND8NoVqDhtk+rA cEm+hZ6u5IcJ/Mfv39PIjkkZ4TjETxHgM+gMDvmXxGSBKs+UxRhovEr73vGtgdqrNO0qOAxK bM+wTla2S1bxGZrd8LcCaabvLrSuymjeFo0EDTGUYsgwTROg4spkNMH5F++ggbLVVKvoZDGb y2X8eH4Tni+h2hoySUFrrXcTxfEcmYGsw6BNMCIwuLFN67ifoAgQBH2OCrLGVWCFqrNK68W8 hUGKq9uKMZICBfXK1Uj4Wb/pDTSujDbxA9Uri1N0pQYTZY/TqJ49cBo1c0eSTbK62oyn1229 MtMpWr3iIzGXGT3KZCKmyQ4f0oSmbpppaJpda3+h//n7L9DGwWCwvcWD5FcHEX7h5/74T7W3 D7Sog4Ph3mB7f2ewi+AHw91/xX/+T/ycs6mDQdG79YU6S/j6AP1VkwJv41fnb599p7rDgXq2 mOBHLobb2zu9dvsDWNwGUr5AUhXj+ioqU7zSs8inN/TZdvywdoY4dvavr/vtuJgWixI/x5JO GWqz3f52rGLIxc8xV6A68GrQJwZ7n1CA8q9qdINF8/lUTiVV/JH5GyzaV1dgbShYG6juBD/l iFXj9ziENrBCq95m+/2iwot0tvBCoP/b3tX0tm0E0XP2VyyQgyRApuJ8HYyigOHGiIG47qGB m5spciUuLJICl7Sq/vq+N7MrUbUvBXoqzEOQSLvL+XjzsQpmphZCD/NsXBlrEYXs365ur24u MzO9d5YslS3FREqkmrdvbc3TfQ9W8PVao1I2M3csrdxxpAoXB+3Bw/Z5gZt4HZWWPdt2xxkH jawawgDPJhPJl3u7llf5Bst9uZFyZIQVJUtKX7th2wdhXU6hVOKcBBYcS3Nntolguf82jlSQ mSQZ1eZwDq5bO76jdKHo/BL7WCGRGPyHVklje1Bjpprfdrhi1r6BO7dP8FTEDScMhLYm4ziK Ewe68mznOQ/yeAZ/bDD4OxVFAoGFXf7EvOFQKT0NToXnOAtiBfEjlMJLZQUUaJ6PrFLNh2Er LSrzk+ZHU/01qAcYNZEWKQYq3Re+389MFxvSt1IhZK+lkcDvo5YJ39imgbQekCzNBoAlOGnu pMzt81EqFPtRrDmbZ47kaGLbW7jvYggBMgJsXGbtpQ2OrQN6YCQvHvO1U/5Kh/N3HnbKwyCI azACtfNCT/jOOdY+whDcCvYFgckohUF+wnJP9k40+dHWlXANEXbqnZReshZsZpOAoENXD5mJ BoHI+uQjczQjCiYiJtHNktNhqRDrgnV5h6jfzU1yC0tQu/LSHqavWjZKG60WkXFUrtjZwBZ/ K5pb0+7M1K1ZFliymDVyROSQGInT+mYsxpceutsdwAUEXXJKui9e0FiiO1RSa7wEo08IpZyH Y2USPJ3VdyTPGxLi4XP8it5H5EFlSv+IkrOx+CmJj00ATok04B8GtOW2F5Azl92RCFo+lH2e 2R/4sKYHXvkOf6YDDqiM2HCwu6as3KYMWdutpcqNMKTgk6W+539wf/pop4C4YNvRotslON2r f1sOPfFUwTRZurgHG9oCFC+oIcTvYfTmrx8+v3tnv/lm+NPG67OaDv/RDYX46gvJ3C4WC/yZ nZC42A5L5ErYvSjamimX5pg9Bb+IB2ZVX28I+uS7BB8gukCC2UUbiT4JpnMvE6jC4uqLtgkl reojL5LSZEfj6J16A3CvBv5qNafaA08khsC+bNX2Ir4GOuB4g0mOs0we/FTmY74z8yu7DQu5 h9fmm9DyRVglUU2/xkF7Qc3ayVrDvvSkI7cJ3uALLNU5PGJDI23H5EoB5zNqWKE30EPQpnCB HdYVtCx05+xXsOboNGPeZ/ayT25XY+6YDchibx8eZAn9PwcLCT+EyJFAc4Rbis1iHSRtTxqj OrFD8QL/B2ABbnjJZJKZH9Fw0rqbQ1IN08hBGN03vB68XJwTpEajuYBJdqfATocQtOkEupFD ZqHZhsid6+BljPhMFsZLr1BlBeL5APEoF2c1PnoWJENCghjyY7b+Sz/AFyVCIH992JvpON8+ rjmepvKGOmeIBPc06Nyen396TF2XC61yZz4fY8lI3k4sxgdcN+asFD+ClA43hSIR+9zsKmQG lFbvVEDjk3D2g9RMKncT9iuAMoXinDByhk3zlNepdqDgEX/c3v3y5dbKpQuJ3ikRyGy+jnHJ YP4xs3dRA8kJQ2Ax4swPXnTYljRqpSbEjoZRZpm50Tw1iVCH0DUjk7fTreuqfJt2ah4iU7rG 7awNyM1tuuHNLuSSVdqz3E7eXk+k0zZuWUXVxmnGRMzPUpOrbQ6VvKLntbW0P51crkR0Z7z5 gc+meGEfg4JMkQP35s3JZrAPffmiQg7jQoz//4H+//WF4fV5fV6f1+f1+V88fwOmeQzMAPAA AA== --upas-gojtllxfvtnyxbqzuudfteibhu-- From xaplos.com!macrod Thu Sep 9 14:10:47 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.68]) by doppio; Thu Sep 9 14:10:47 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.4] ([68.209.108.223]) by imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20040909130446.NYED11436.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[10.0.1.4]> for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:04:46 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:04:45 -0400 From: "Mark F. Rodriguez" Subject: Building Latest Inferno Release To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.1.3 (Blindsider) I recently downloaded the '20040830' release and tried to (re)build the emu= and all utils for MacOSX. Everything worked fine so I proceeded to attempt= to build a native kernel for the ipaq1110. Unfortunately the build process exited with an error message about not bein= g able to find the command '5a'. Without even checking /inferno/MacOSX/powe= r/bin, I changed mkconfig so I could build for the PC/386 platform. I recei= ved a similar 'command not found' message this time with the file '8a'. I immediately checked /inferno/MacOSX/power/bin and found that all utils ha= ve been built (i.e., 5c, 5coff, 5cv, 5l, 8c, 8l, c2l, ftl, etc.) except any= of the assemblers (0a, 1a, 2a, 5a, ka, qa, va). As an experiment I attempted to cd into the utils/5a folder and mk its cont= ents but got the following error: yacc -D1 -d a.y usage: yacc [-dlrtv] [-b file_prefix] [-o outputfile] [-p symbol_prefix] fi= lename mk: yacc -D1 -d a.y : exit status=3Dexit(1) Just to get things up and running (it was a late night), I switched over to= the PC and tried to build Inferno. I'm just a casual user of Windows so pe= rhaps I didn't configure something correctly, but after setting a PATH entr= y of C:\Inferno\Nt\386\bin in my environment variables, the build failed. On the PC, I wasn't even able to get 'mk all' or 'mk install' to work with: SYSHOST=3DNt SYSTARG=3D$SYSHOST OBJTYPE=3D386 It appears that none of the file trying to be compiled are found??? All I r= eceive is many 'file not found' error messages and eventually the build pro= cess fails. Perhaps it makes more sense to get the MacOSX running since I'm more famili= ar with that environment. I guess my long winded question is why doesn't an= y of the assemblers compile on MacOSX when running 'mk all'? Thanks, -Mark From forsyth Thu Sep 9 14:28:32 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Building Latest Inferno Release From: C H Forsyth Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:28:32 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xzqrbuuqjomccpjlnvhgohecsm" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xzqrbuuqjomccpjlnvhgohecsm Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit our internal cross-all-platform build procedures automatically build all of utils on all platforms, but to keep the size of the packages down, i only include the executables for the native os utils on platforms where the operating system usually or often does not include the compilers. MacOSX is assumed to provide them, although arguably since they are only optionally installed perhaps i should include it in the set of systems for which i provide binaries (as i do for Windows). i do always include the executables for commands such as mk and yacc that are needed for a bootstrap build from scratch. >>yacc -D1 -d a.y >>usage: yacc [-dlrtv] [-b file_prefix] [-o outputfile] [-p symbol_prefix] filename that means your PATH isn't set to invoke the version of yacc included in MacOSX/power/bin. recently i changed the name of Inferno's hosted nm command to inm (similarly ar to iar), and i ought to have done so for yacc. then the common error of not having the version of yacc it expects on PATH would be easier to spot, and furthermore, changing its name would prevent confusion the other way, where Inferno's yacc is invoked when working with unrelated software on the host. If you put the MacOSX/power/bin directory first in PATH you should be able to build and install all the remaining utils you need. i'm not sure why it didn't build the assemblers the first time. they aren't treated any differently and they were built for me here. --upas-xzqrbuuqjomccpjlnvhgohecsm Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.68]) by doppio; Thu Sep 9 14:10:47 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.4] ([68.209.108.223]) by imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20040909130446.NYED11436.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[10.0.1.4]> for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:04:46 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:04:45 -0400 From: "Mark F. Rodriguez" To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.1.3 (Blindsider) Subject: [inferno-list] Building Latest Inferno Release Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk I recently downloaded the '20040830' release and tried to (re)build the emu= and all utils for MacOSX. Everything worked fine so I proceeded to attempt= to build a native kernel for the ipaq1110. Unfortunately the build process exited with an error message about not bein= g able to find the command '5a'. Without even checking /inferno/MacOSX/powe= r/bin, I changed mkconfig so I could build for the PC/386 platform. I recei= ved a similar 'command not found' message this time with the file '8a'. I immediately checked /inferno/MacOSX/power/bin and found that all utils ha= ve been built (i.e., 5c, 5coff, 5cv, 5l, 8c, 8l, c2l, ftl, etc.) except any= of the assemblers (0a, 1a, 2a, 5a, ka, qa, va). As an experiment I attempted to cd into the utils/5a folder and mk its cont= ents but got the following error: yacc -D1 -d a.y usage: yacc [-dlrtv] [-b file_prefix] [-o outputfile] [-p symbol_prefix] fi= lename mk: yacc -D1 -d a.y : exit status=3Dexit(1) Just to get things up and running (it was a late night), I switched over to= the PC and tried to build Inferno. I'm just a casual user of Windows so pe= rhaps I didn't configure something correctly, but after setting a PATH entr= y of C:\Inferno\Nt\386\bin in my environment variables, the build failed. On the PC, I wasn't even able to get 'mk all' or 'mk install' to work with: SYSHOST=3DNt SYSTARG=3D$SYSHOST OBJTYPE=3D386 It appears that none of the file trying to be compiled are found??? All I r= eceive is many 'file not found' error messages and eventually the build pro= cess fails. Perhaps it makes more sense to get the MacOSX running since I'm more famili= ar with that environment. I guess my long winded question is why doesn't an= y of the assemblers compile on MacOSX when running 'mk all'? Thanks, -Mark --upas-xzqrbuuqjomccpjlnvhgohecsm-- From xaplos.com!macrod Thu Sep 9 17:07:56 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf01aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.49]) by doppio; Thu Sep 9 17:07:56 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.4] ([68.209.108.223]) by imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20040909135528.DDDU27018.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[10.0.1.4]> for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:55:28 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:55:23 -0400 From: "Mark F. Rodriguez" Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Building Latest Inferno Release To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <47f55a04e068603cf0dfef15b9ed4881@vitanuova.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.1.3 (Blindsider) >If you put the MacOSX/power/bin directory first in PATH you should be >able to build and install all the remaining utils you need. i'm not >sure why it didn't build the assemblers the first time. they aren't >treated any differently and they were built for me here. Great point. After updating my '.bash_profile' PATH variable, I can cd into= utils/5a and run mk without any errors or complaints. However, even though= I can see all the .o files that were built in the utils/5a directory, the = final '5a' executable never makes it into /MacOSX/power/bin??? Interesting since all other libs, compilers, linkers, emu, limbo, etc. are = built and located within this directory. For some [strange] reason, the ass= emblers don't want to cooperate. Thanks, -Mark From xaplos.com!macrod Fri Sep 10 04:23:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf02aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.50]) by doppio; Fri Sep 10 04:23:27 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.4] ([68.209.108.223]) by imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20040910003447.ECRB29660.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[10.0.1.4]> for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:34:47 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:34:43 -0400 From: "Mark F. Rodriguez" Subject: Building Native Inferno To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.1.3 (Blindsider) Now that the Inferno system and utils build, I'm trying to prepare a native= kernel (any at the moment). Since my target board is arm-based, I figured = I'd start with the ipaq1110 port. After modifying my mkconfig file to: ROOT=3D/inferno SYSHOST=3DMacOSX SYSTARG=3DInferno OBJTYPE=3Darm and cd'ing into /inferno/os/ipaq1110 and running 'mk', I receive the follow= ing message(s): Mark-Rodriguezs-Computer:/inferno/os/ipaq1110 macrod$ mk 5a -I. -I../sa1110 ../sa1110/l.s mk: don't know how to make '/inferno/dis/touchcal.dis' Just to rule out any problems with the ipaq1110 port, I changed mkconfig to= built the pc port and followed the instructions at but get a similar message: Mark-Rodriguezs-Computer:/inferno/os/pc macrod$ mk 8a l.s mk: don't know how to make '/inferno/dis/sh.dis' Is there something else I should be doing to get the native kernel to build= ? Thanks, -Mark From xaplos.com!macrod Fri Sep 10 04:23:29 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf02aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.50]) by doppio; Fri Sep 10 04:23:29 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.4] ([68.209.108.223]) by imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20040910000224.KDAC18351.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[10.0.1.4]> for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:02:24 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:02:22 -0400 From: "Mark F. Rodriguez" Subject: Re: [Resolved] Building Latest Inferno Release To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.1.3 (Blindsider) Just to followup, I was able to get all assemblers to compile and install i= n my /MacOSX/power/bin directory. The steps to get this to work were, (1) u= pdate '.bash_profile' PATH variable to include '/inferno/MacOSX/power/bin' = first in the list and run the following from Inferno's root: mk nuke mk all mk install mkconfig file looks like: ROOT=3D/inferno SYSHOST=3DMacOSX SYSTARG=3D$SYSHOST OBJTYPE=3Dpower Thanks, -Mark From infernopark.com!vdharani Fri Sep 10 04:46:46 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plain.rackshack.net ([207.44.192.47]) by doppio; Fri Sep 10 04:46:46 BST 2004 Received: from www.infernopark.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by plain.rackshack.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8A8qgUc014797 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:52:43 -0500 Received: from 138.89.132.134 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:52:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3609.138.89.132.134.1094806363.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:52:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Building Native Inferno From: vdharani@infernopark.com To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Mark, I just tried to build PC image from the latest version. I did: % cd /usr/inferno/os/pc % mk 'CONF=pc' It seems to work fine. I tried from Plan 9 host. Did u set the path to something like /usr/inferno/Plan9/386/bin for your machine? Or is it to do with MacOS being used as host? Thanks dharani > Now that the Inferno system and utils build, I'm trying to prepare a > native kernel (any at the moment). Since my target board is arm-based, I > figured I'd start with the ipaq1110 port. > > After modifying my mkconfig file to: > ROOT=/inferno > SYSHOST=MacOSX > SYSTARG=Inferno > OBJTYPE=arm > > and cd'ing into /inferno/os/ipaq1110 and running 'mk', I receive the > following message(s): > Mark-Rodriguezs-Computer:/inferno/os/ipaq1110 macrod$ mk > 5a -I. -I../sa1110 ../sa1110/l.s > mk: don't know how to make '/inferno/dis/touchcal.dis' > > Just to rule out any problems with the ipaq1110 port, I changed mkconfig > to built the pc port and followed the instructions at > but get a > similar message: > Mark-Rodriguezs-Computer:/inferno/os/pc macrod$ mk > 8a l.s > mk: don't know how to make '/inferno/dis/sh.dis' > > > Is there something else I should be doing to get the native kernel to > build? > > Thanks, > -Mark > From xaplos.com!macrod Fri Sep 10 15:49:57 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.68]) by doppio; Fri Sep 10 15:49:57 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.4] ([68.209.108.223]) by imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20040910144357.QPXV11436.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[10.0.1.4]> for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:43:57 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:43:54 -0400 From: "Mark F. Rodriguez" Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Building Native Inferno To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <3609.138.89.132.134.1094806363.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.1.3 (Blindsider) >Did u set the path to something like /usr/inferno/Plan9/386/bin for >your machine? Or is it to do with MacOS being used as host? I'm not 100% sure, but I think I may setup a plan9 box for development. I was able to make it further in the build of the native PC kernel, but now= the build process exits with the following message: ksize ipc progread: out of memory mk: 8c -wFVT -I/inferno/Inferno/386/include ... : exit status=3Dexit(1) The promising news is that it appears all the 'pc' related object files hav= e been built. I'll play around with this later this weekend to see if I can= build the native 'pc' kernel without any errors. Thanks, -Mark From comcast.net!caerwyn Sat Sep 11 21:37:21 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net ([204.127.202.56]) by doppio; Sat Sep 11 21:37:21 BST 2004 From: comcast.net!caerwyn To: vitanuova.com!inferno-list Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:31:21 +0000 (GMT) X-Comment: Sending client does not conform to RFC822 minimum requirements X-Comment: Date has been added by Maillennium Received: from comcast.net (h000c41af2c71.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.7.243]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004091120312001200idetme>; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:31:21 +0000 Subject: cryptfs i implemented a simple (naive?) cryptfs using file2chan to interpose cryptography between, say, disk/kfs and its storage. the code is available at my blog, http://caerwyn.home.comcast.net/ipn which is all about inferno :) i may have missed something obvious in the implementation making it hopelessly insecure. If so, I'd like to hear about it. what is amazing to me is how easy this was to do. from thinking of the idea while driving home, to coding it that evening, and have it work, was only a few hours. only in inferno. -caerwyn From xaplos.com!macrod Sun Sep 12 04:07:46 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.65]) by doppio; Sun Sep 12 04:07:46 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.4] ([68.209.108.223]) by imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20040912030146.OISM19186.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[10.0.1.4]> for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:01:46 -0400 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:01:44 -0400 From: "Mark F. Rodriguez" Subject: Building Inferno On MacOSX To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.1.3 (Blindsider) After some playing around, I'm now able to reliably build the entire Infern= o distribution on my Powerbook. I have been able to take the current distri= bution and build a new emu and all utils and have written a bash script to = automate the entire process without any hiccups. (For some crazy reason I l= ike to know that I can [re]build everything myself from scratch). Unfortunately, if I attempt to build the native PC kernel, I receive the fo= llowing error: ksize ipc progread: out of memory mk: 8c -wFVT -I/inferno/Inferno/386/include ... : exit status=3Dexit(1) It appears all object files have been build and libraries created (i.e., $R= OOT/Inferno/386/lib); however the actual binary is never produced or placed= in $ROOT/Inferno/386/bin. Is there a "known issue" with ksize on MacOSX? Thanks, -Mark From infernopark.com!vdharani Sun Sep 12 05:54:18 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plain.rackshack.net ([207.44.192.47]) by doppio; Sun Sep 12 05:54:18 BST 2004 Received: from www.infernopark.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by plain.rackshack.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8CA0GUc032735 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 05:00:17 -0500 Received: from 138.89.132.134 (SquirrelMail authenticated user vdharani@infernopark.com) by www.infernopark.com with HTTP; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 05:00:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <1709.138.89.132.134.1094983217.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 05:00:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Building Inferno On MacOSX From: vdharani@infernopark.com To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal > Unfortunately, if I attempt to build the native PC kernel, I receive the > following error: > > ksize ipc > progread: out of memory > mk: 8c -wFVT -I/inferno/Inferno/386/include ... : exit status=exit(1) > > It appears all object files have been build and libraries created (i.e., > $ROOT/Inferno/386/lib); however the actual binary is never produced or > placed in $ROOT/Inferno/386/bin. > > Is there a "known issue" with ksize on MacOSX? You will be getting an image called ipc (from which you can make ipc.gz). It will be there in the same directory where you do mk (i.e. /usr/inferno/os/pc). Thats it. May be you are there already? the error you are getting for ksize command is bothering me, though. Regards dharani From proxima.alt.za!lucio Sun Sep 12 08:38:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from meddle.hq.iba.co.za ([196.30.44.140]) by doppio; Sun Sep 12 08:38:28 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Building Inferno On MacOSX From: Lucio De Re Reply-to: Lucio De Re Organization: Proxima Research & Development X-Mailer: Plan 9 ACME/Mail X-Disclaimer: Everything expressed is an opinion Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:33:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1709.138.89.132.134.1094983217.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > You will be getting an image called ipc (from which you can make ipc.gz). > It will be there in the same directory where you do mk (i.e. > /usr/inferno/os/pc). Thats it. May be you are there already? the error you > are getting for ksize command is bothering me, though. In Plan 9, at least, the linker tries to assemble the entire image in memory and used to fail regularly on small memory machines while linking the kernel, not to mention the ghostscript executable. It seems unlikely that such a situation could still arise, but the mk step that failed was mk: 8c -wFVT -I/inferno/Inferno/386/include ... : exit status=exit(1) which seems to indicate that ksize has nothing to do with this. It always bugs me that I don't know why the "size" command is printed by all versions of "make" well in advance of its being executed. ++L From xaplos.com!macrod Sun Sep 12 13:40:40 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.66]) by doppio; Sun Sep 12 13:40:40 BST 2004 Received: from [10.0.1.4] ([68.209.108.223]) by imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20040912123441.UVOK13924.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[10.0.1.4]> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:34:41 -0400 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:34:38 -0400 From: "Mark F. Rodriguez" Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Building Inferno On MacOSX To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <1709.138.89.132.134.1094983217.squirrel@www.infernopark.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.1.3 (Blindsider) >You will be getting an image called ipc (from which you can make >ipc.gz). It will be there in the same directory where you do mk (i.e. >/usr/inferno/os/pc). Thats it. May be you are there already? the error=20 >you are getting for ksize command is bothering me, though. After rechecking, I don't have the ipc image in $ROOT/os/pc:-( I've since been able to get everything working on the PC (i.e., can build t= he emu, utils, ipc image, iipaq1110 image, etc.). While this is good news, = I'd prefer to stay with my Powerbook for all development. As far as memory is concerned, my Powerbook has 1 GB of RAM so I don't thin= k it's a lack of physical memory. However, when trying to build the ipaq111= 0 image (I first had to comment out /nvfs/default /keyring/default for auth= entication), I get the following error message: 5c -wFV -I/inferno/Inferno/arm/include -I/inferno/include textw.c textw.c:3420 out of memory mk: 5c -wFV -I/inferno/Inferno/arm/include ... : exit status=3Dexit(1) mk: echo "(cd ... : exit status=3Dexit(1) This leads me to think the error is not with ksize or anything specific wit= h the pc build. I thought perhaps the built-in Terminal app from MacOSX was= the problem (although it seems others have used it fine) so I tried to bui= ld with another terminal app (iTerm). This resulted in the same error messa= ges. Any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated... Thanks, -Mark From gmail.com!fgergo Tue Sep 14 21:38:40 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.205]) by doppio; Tue Sep 14 21:38:40 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so64617rnk for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.99.13 with SMTP id w13mr49494rnb; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.15.40 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:32:33 +0200 From: Reply-To: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: faq update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I updated the faq with all suggestions. Thanks! I updated my address in the faq. Now I am hopefully reachable by email. I've done a simpler version of the faq generator (in limbo), in order to easily make the resulting faq.html valid html. It's simple, but if you are interested, drop me a line. cheers: gergo From rog Tue Sep 21 16:21:49 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: test Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:21:49 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit just checking if the mailing list is working. From gmail.com!fgergo Tue Sep 21 16:41:24 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.207]) by doppio; Tue Sep 21 16:41:24 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 77so1714682rnk for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.82.75 with SMTP id f75mr2718021rnb; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.15.64 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:35:14 +0200 From: Reply-To: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: faq update2 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Hi, sorry if this appears twice on the list, I just didn't receive any copy to neither of my identities. cheers: gergo ps: as rog points out by his test message, the list should be fine. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: fgergo@gmail.com Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:32:33 +0200 Subject: faq update To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Hi, I updated the faq with all suggestions. Thanks! I updated my address in the faq. Now I am hopefully reachable by email. I've done a simpler version of the faq generator (in limbo), in order to easily make the resulting faq.html valid html. It's simple, but if you are interested, drop me a line. cheers: gergo From gmail.com!ad.thiele Tue Sep 21 18:40:13 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.196]) by doppio; Tue Sep 21 18:40:13 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 73so1334294rnk for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.181.68 with SMTP id d68mr2112840rnf; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.9.37 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <60593125040921103464ca7763@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:34:00 -0400 From: -- Reply-To: -- To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] test In-Reply-To: <40845d80be4da98d108578c6d7077a84@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <40845d80be4da98d108578c6d7077a84@vitanuova.com> I think most of us are still trying to put together the ipaq port :-) I`m not the sharpest knife , but there seems to be a gap in the docs. Where are the directions for a local fs ? what are the args to pass to mkppcimage ??? On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:21:49 +0100, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > just checking if the mailing list is working. > > From cibernet.com!michael Mon Sep 27 15:35:13 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from juice.cibernet.com ([66.134.100.75]) by doppio; Mon Sep 27 15:35:13 BST 2004 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by juice.cibernet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56D5E6F843F for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:29:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from juice.cibernet.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (juice.cibernet.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08324-07 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.1.240.122] (unknown [10.1.240.122]) by juice.cibernet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 222076F841A for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) In-Reply-To: <60593125040921103464ca7763@mail.gmail.com> References: <40845d80be4da98d108578c6d7077a84@vitanuova.com> <60593125040921103464ca7763@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <96F6BC7E-1091-11D9-ADA4-000A95C4B4C0@cibernet.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Baldwin Subject: parametric polymorphism in limbo Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:29:07 -0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at cibernet.com so what's the deal on that? the last doc (june 9) says that details have not been published yet because they are still in flux. any word on when they'll be nailed down and released for use? will there be an updated limbo reference manual coming out that has all of the new language features incorporated into it? especially for programmers unfamiliar with "old limbo" this would be less confusing. From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Fri Oct 1 13:43:57 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Fri Oct 1 13:43:57 BST 2004 Received: from vimp1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.90]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1CDMfY-0007dZ-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:37:52 +0100 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1CDMfS-0001UL-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:37:46 +0100 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1CDMfS-0001mw-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:37:46 +0100 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i91Cbeel018749 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:37:46 +0100 (BST) From: "Jon Blower" To: Subject: authentication in Inferno Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:37:41 +0100 Message-ID: <001d01c4a7b3$71280810$76a6abc0@marlow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Scanner: exiscan *1CDMfS-0001UL-00*c090uvT8xW2* (The University of Reading) Hi all, Does anyone know if there is any documentation on how the authentication model in Inferno works? I'm asking for two reasons: Firstly, because I want to know how other authentication mechanisms can be plugged in (e.g. X509 digital certificates) and secondly because I'm writing a Styx client library in Java (http://www.resc.rdg.ac.uk/twiki/bin/view/Resc/StyxLibraries) and I'd like to know how I can get it to make a connection to an Inferno server that demands authentication. I know that the authentication mechanism is separate from Styx but I haven't been able to find any more details in the docs. Cheers, Jon -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From csc.com!cjones83 Fri Oct 1 14:27:48 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta01.csc.com ([20.137.2.247]) by doppio; Fri Oct 1 14:27:48 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta01.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i91D0NuW023921 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:21:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: Re: [inferno-list] authentication in Inferno To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:14:57 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 10/01/2004 09:37:43 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII man pages: keyring-intro(2) keyring-auth(2) security-intro(2) auth(6) , which describes the station-to-station protocol. and Bruce Schneier's "Applied Cryptography." -Caerwyn From comcast.net!caerwyn Wed Oct 6 04:30:49 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.198.39]) by doppio; Wed Oct 6 04:30:49 BST 2004 From: comcast.net!caerwyn To: vitanuova.com!inferno-list Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 03:24:43 +0000 (GMT) X-Comment: Sending client does not conform to RFC822 minimum requirements X-Comment: Date has been added by Maillennium Received: from comcast.net (h000c41af2c71.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.7.243]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20041006032442015003g7vce>; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 03:24:42 +0000 Subject: treemap and stuff Hi all. I've implemented some treemap algorithms in Limbo. Here's a couple of screenshots Strip view http://caerwyn.home.comcast.net/lab/9/tmap.gif Btree view http://caerwyn.home.comcast.net/lab/8/tmap.gif and source is available from http://caerwyn.home.comcast.net/ipn There is a bug in the squarified view but the others (strip, slice and dice, and btree) seem okay. Also, I've been playing with synthesized sound. See the pages on signalfs. If you've been reading 9fans recently, this is the recursive file system I alluded to. This is a work in progress. -Caerwyn From orangefrance.com!francis.gudin Thu Oct 7 13:48:25 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com ([212.234.67.6]) by doppio; Thu Oct 7 13:48:25 BST 2004 Return-Path: Received: from [193.248.188.3] by relais-filtrant-04.francetelecom.fr with ESMTP for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:42:18 +0200 Received: from fedft02a.francetelecom.fr by relais-filtrant-04.francetelecom.fr with ESMTP for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:42:18 +0200 Received: from puexcc11.nanterre.francetelecom.fr by fedft02a.francetelecom.fr with ESMTP for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:42:12 +0200 Received: from puexcba0.nanterre.francetelecom.fr ([10.168.74.55]) by PUEXCC11.nanterre.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:42:12 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: iPAQ question Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:42:11 +0200 Message-Id: <048A72EFB459F44DA4C45BDDB36FFD8744980A@PUEXCBA0.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: iPAQ question Thread-Index: AcSsaw/VoHI8lLnCRaKLyBiRPhjEvQ== From: "GUDIN Francis OF/UNPS/EXT" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Oct 2004 12:42:12.0271 (UTC) FILETIME=[112AC3F0:01C4AC6B] Hello, I'm thinking about buying some second-hand PDA and i'm looking for = advice regarding a possible Inferno install on it. 1st question: how difficult is the OS install and config ? Some specific = hinders ? Are the steps documented somewhere ? 2nd question: how usable ACME and wm are wrt using a touchscreen/pen ? Any advice are welcome. Thank you. BR, Francis. From mail.ru!santucco Thu Oct 7 15:23:59 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mx.kaspersky.com ([212.5.80.5]) by doppio; Thu Oct 7 15:23:59 BST 2004 Received: from mailgate.kaspersky.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with SMTP id ACDBF258CA for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:17:52 +0400 (MSD) Received: by mailgate.kaspersky.com (ESMTP, from userid 99) id 8501925875; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:17:52 +0400 (MSD) Received: from mx.avp.ru (mx.avp.ru [212.5.80.12]) by mx.kaspersky.com (ESMTP) with ESMTP id 9C4B8258D6 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:17:40 +0400 (MSD) Received: from moscow.avp.ru ([172.16.11.1]) by mx.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:17:12 +0400 Received: from santucco.avp.ru ([172.16.10.43]) by moscow.avp.ru with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:12:05 +0400 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:11:23 +0400 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] iPAQ question References: <048A72EFB459F44DA4C45BDDB36FFD8744980A@PUEXCBA0.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> From: "Alexander Sychev" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <048A72EFB459F44DA4C45BDDB36FFD8744980A@PUEXCBA0.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Linux, build 751) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Oct 2004 14:12:05.0562 (UTC) FILETIME=[9FD1A9A0:01C4AC77] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! I've already thought about it, because I have already got a PDA ( iPAQ =20 3970 ). Now it containts PocketPC 2002 ( an unusable thing :-( ), but I'm= =20 going to install Familiar Linux distribution on it - this will be first =20 step to Inferno on my PDA :-) ( if I won't be lazy or/and stupid ). There is an installation instruction for iPAQ 36xx (/os/ipaq1110/README).= =20 As far as I can see, there aren't any more PDAs, where Inferno has been =20 ported. About ACME: this is a environment with great ideas, but, I think, it will= =20 be unusable with pen, because it will be difficult to find ways to =20 emulate three buttons of mouse by pen. Maybe the middle mouse button ("execute") can be emulated by a delayed =20 touch of a pen, and the rigth mouse button ("look/plumb") can be emulated= =20 by the "Look" command... On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:42:11 +0200, GUDIN Francis OF/UNPS/EXT =20 wrote: > Hello, > > I'm thinking about buying some second-hand PDA and i'm looking for =20 > advice regarding a possible Inferno install on it. > 1st question: how difficult is the OS install and config ? Some specifi= c =20 > hinders ? Are the steps documented somewhere ? > 2nd question: how usable ACME and wm are wrt using a touchscreen/pen ? > > Any advice are welcome. Thank you. > > BR, > Francis. > --=20 Best regards, santucco From ionkov.net!lucho Thu Oct 7 16:11:49 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net ([204.127.202.56]) by doppio; Thu Oct 7 16:11:49 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004100715054201200joisre>; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:05:42 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 0E7C83666AF; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:05:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:05:48 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] iPAQ question Message-ID: <20041007150547.GA6121@ionkov.net> References: <048A72EFB459F44DA4C45BDDB36FFD8744980A@PUEXCBA0.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i If you port Inferno's emu for Linux on ARM, please let me know. I would like to run it on my Zaurus SL-C760, but am too lazy to learn (again) the ARM assembler and port the required pieces of code. Inferno will be much more useful on Zaurus -- it has builtin keyboard :) Thanks, Lucho On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 06:11:23PM +0400, Alexander Sychev said: > Hi! > > I've already thought about it, because I have already got a PDA ( iPAQ > 3970 ). Now it containts PocketPC 2002 ( an unusable thing :-( ), but I'm > going to install Familiar Linux distribution on it - this will be first > step to Inferno on my PDA :-) ( if I won't be lazy or/and stupid ). > > There is an installation instruction for iPAQ 36xx (/os/ipaq1110/README). > As far as I can see, there aren't any more PDAs, where Inferno has been > ported. > > About ACME: this is a environment with great ideas, but, I think, it will > be unusable with pen, because it will be difficult to find ways to > emulate three buttons of mouse by pen. > > Maybe the middle mouse button ("execute") can be emulated by a delayed > touch of a pen, and the rigth mouse button ("look/plumb") can be emulated > by the "Look" command... > > On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:42:11 +0200, GUDIN Francis OF/UNPS/EXT > wrote: > > >Hello, > > > >I'm thinking about buying some second-hand PDA and i'm looking for > >advice regarding a possible Inferno install on it. > >1st question: how difficult is the OS install and config ? Some specific > >hinders ? Are the steps documented somewhere ? > >2nd question: how usable ACME and wm are wrt using a touchscreen/pen ? > > > >Any advice are welcome. Thank you. > > > >BR, > >Francis. > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > santucco From terzarima.net!forsyth Fri Oct 8 01:11:48 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.44]) by doppio; Fri Oct 8 01:11:48 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] iPAQ question From: Charles Forsyth Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 00:59:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20041007150547.GA6121@ionkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There is an installation instruction for iPAQ 36xx (/os/ipaq1110/README). > As far as I can see, there aren't any more PDAs, where Inferno has been > ported. it's because it's limited to platforms i've bought for which i reasonably suspect i could port, and not only was the iPAQ range changing quickly (esp. after merger with HP) but they all seemed rather different and not as well documented (even for people doing Linux ports to them). i thought i'd wait until it settled down. a secondary reason is that i wasn't really using my own iPAQ with Inferno as much as i expected. the device is rather heavy and bulky, and yet fairly expensive to use for things round the house (video phone for instance). the Zaurus was a possibility but the toys budget was running low by that time. i did see a rather nice xscale based touchscreen thing today that has a different form factor, nice design, mildly open hardware architecture, and which i'd probably find more useful myself, but apparently it's at a silly price (i haven't checked yet). there are some other non-PDA ports in the wings. i've also been sent URLs for several possible PDA targets, but for various reasons i wasn't tempted. feel free to suggest some, though; i'm sure there's something out there that is suitable and do-able. > About ACME: this is a environment with great ideas, but, I think, it will > be unusable with pen, because it will be difficult to find ways to > emulate three buttons of mouse by pen. on the iPAQ acme worked very well: the trick was that some of the buttons round the edge said which `mouse' button was pressed when the stylus was down. that turns out to be much smoother and quicker (and even easy to learn) than trying to distinguish by mouse actions. tap-and-hold was particularly bad i found (under windows CE). slow slow slow, and i can't tolerate slow cash machines let alone something i use frequently. From parvat.com!martin_ml Fri Oct 8 17:05:12 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.183]) by doppio; Fri Oct 8 17:05:12 BST 2004 Received: from [212.227.126.208] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1CFx98-0006PS-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:59:06 +0200 Received: from [220.226.34.12] (helo=vayu) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1CFx95-0001Ib-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:59:04 +0200 Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:39:06 +0530 From: Martin C. Atkins To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] iPAQ question Message-Id: <20041008153906.778a9d10.martin_ml@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: <20041007150547.GA6121@ionkov.net> References: <048A72EFB459F44DA4C45BDDB36FFD8744980A@PUEXCBA0.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> <20041007150547.GA6121@ionkov.net> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:36ac05c78f2d71fdd8502b36d47d3e88 On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:05:48 -0400 Latchesar Ionkov wrote: > If you port Inferno's emu for Linux on ARM, please let me know. I > would like to run it on my Zaurus SL-C760, but am too lazy to learn (again) > the ARM assembler and port the required pieces of code. We sponsored/mentored a student project to port Inferno to the Simputer, which is ARM/Linux-based. The student succeeded in getting emu running (which was rather disappointing, since we had hoped he would move on to a native port), but I haven't had time to take the code back, see how nicely it was done, and/or send it back to VN (yet). He worked with 3rd Ed, so some forward porting would also be needed. Note that the Simputer has a full X11 server - the Zaurus uses the embedded Qt implementation that doesn't use an X server, and so there would be extra work needed to get a graphical Inferno running on the Zaurus. (You could run Inferno on the Zaurus, with the display remote on a PC - OK for testing, but not very pocketable! :-) One can get an X server for the Zaurus, but last time I checked it seemed to use up a lot of flash space, and didn't co-exist with the "normal" applications very well. > > Inferno will be much more useful on Zaurus -- it has builtin keyboard :) Agreed - especially since I also have a Zaurus (and no Simputer!)! Re the keyboard issue: Some time back I did one of (the less popular one of :-) the Zaurus drivers for IR-connected wireless keyboards - specifically the Pocketop. This way, one can have a more-or-less full-sized keyboard for any palmtop with an IR port. I believe that Stowaway now have an especially nice one of these, but of course, these keyboards can't be used on the move, which is the big advantage of the Zaurus' keyboard! In the course of this, I also wrote a driver for the pocketop keyboard in limbo, which I would be happy to dig out, should anyone be interested! Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@parvat.com Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited http://www.parvat.com From ionkov.net!lucho Fri Oct 8 21:23:56 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.198.39]) by doppio; Fri Oct 8 21:23:56 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <20041008201748015003b8hae>; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 20:17:48 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id D6BDA366527; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:17:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:17:47 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] iPAQ question Message-ID: <20041008201747.GA11145@ionkov.net> References: <048A72EFB459F44DA4C45BDDB36FFD8744980A@PUEXCBA0.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> <20041007150547.GA6121@ionkov.net> <20041008153906.778a9d10.martin_ml@parvat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20041008153906.778a9d10.martin_ml@parvat.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i It would be great if you can send me the code when you get it. It doesn't matter much if it is ugly and/or nice :) I have X server installed on my Zaurus and would be really interested to try it out. Porting the draw part to QT is not that hard either. If somebody is seriously considering to port native Inferno to Zaurus, I have an old SL-5000D that I can give away. Thanks, Lucho On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 03:39:06PM +0530, Martin C. Atkins said: > On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:05:48 -0400 Latchesar Ionkov wrote: > > If you port Inferno's emu for Linux on ARM, please let me know. I > > would like to run it on my Zaurus SL-C760, but am too lazy to learn (again) > > the ARM assembler and port the required pieces of code. > > We sponsored/mentored a student project to port Inferno to the > Simputer, which is ARM/Linux-based. The student succeeded in getting > emu running (which was rather disappointing, since we had hoped he > would move on to a native port), but I haven't had time to take the > code back, see how nicely it was done, and/or send it back to VN (yet). > He worked with 3rd Ed, so some forward porting would also be needed. > > Note that the Simputer has a full X11 server - the Zaurus uses the > embedded Qt implementation that doesn't use an X server, and so there > would be extra work needed to get a graphical Inferno running on the > Zaurus. (You could run Inferno on the Zaurus, with the display remote > on a PC - OK for testing, but not very pocketable! :-) > > One can get an X server for the Zaurus, but last time I checked it > seemed to use up a lot of flash space, and didn't co-exist with the > "normal" applications very well. > > > > > Inferno will be much more useful on Zaurus -- it has builtin keyboard :) > > Agreed - especially since I also have a Zaurus (and no Simputer!)! > > Re the keyboard issue: Some time back I did one of (the less popular > one of :-) the Zaurus drivers for IR-connected wireless keyboards - > specifically the Pocketop. This way, one can have a more-or-less > full-sized keyboard for any palmtop with an IR port. I believe that > Stowaway now have an especially nice one of these, but of course, > these keyboards can't be used on the move, which is the big advantage > of the Zaurus' keyboard! > > In the course of this, I also wrote a driver for the pocketop keyboard > in limbo, which I would be happy to dig out, should anyone be interested! > > Martin > -- > Martin C. Atkins martin@parvat.com > Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited http://www.parvat.com From mail.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Mon Oct 11 19:11:52 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Mon Oct 11 19:11:52 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:45:46 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([10.24.36.5]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:45:45 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:45:44 -0700 References: AAAyPxBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20041011T094544Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] iPAQ question To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Oct 2004 16:45:45.0893 (UTC) FILETIME=[C1378550:01C4AFB1] Speaking of nifty and interesting devices to run Inferno upon... anyone = heard of the OQO? (www.oqo.com) If that's not as good as it gets, I = don't know what is! It's even x86, too, which ought to make porting = trivial... >=20 > Inferno will be much more useful on Zaurus -- it has builtin keyboard :) From rog Mon Oct 11 20:01:50 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] iPAQ question Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:01:50 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <20041011T094544Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If that's not as good as it gets, I don't know what is! i dunno... "up to three hours battery life" ain't so great by my lights. From mail.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Mon Oct 11 20:13:28 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Mon Oct 11 20:13:28 BST 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:07:20 -0700 Received: from cellctl ([10.24.36.5]) by vargas.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:07:20 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:07:18 -0700 References: AAA0PxBAAAgDAaTsLseeeKUMOBBGyNdf X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20041011T120718Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> From: Ben Huntsman Subject: Re: [inferno-list] iPAQ question To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail2.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Oct 2004 19:07:20.0112 (UTC) FILETIME=[882A7B00:01C4AFC5] For integrated wi-fi, full x86 CPU, bluetooth, and a couple of gigs worth = of real HD space? A worthy trade-off in my book. -Ben >>> 10/11/2004 12:01:50 PM >>> > If that's not as good as it gets, I don't know what is! i dunno... "up to three hours battery life" ain't so great by my lights. From rog Mon Oct 11 20:17:33 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] iPAQ question Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:17:33 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <20041011T120718Z_FFB700000000@mail2.cu-portland.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > For integrated wi-fi, full x86 CPU, bluetooth, and a couple of gigs > worth of real HD space? A worthy trade-off in my book. true, it's nice... but as far as i'm concerned battery life is *the* most important thing in a portable device, particularly one on which i might be able to do some useful work (and hence keep it on for reasonable periods of time). with a device of that spec though, one could just run emu under XP and not worry about all those inevitable proprietary h/w interfaces... From csc.com!cjones83 Mon Oct 11 20:44:17 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Mon Oct 11 20:44:17 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i9BJc8YL025122 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:38:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: Re: [inferno-list] iPAQ question To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:37:56 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 10/11/2004 03:55:13 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> If that's not as good as it gets, I don't know what is! > i dunno... "up to three hours battery life" ain't so great > by my lights. I dug up my old Psion 5 over the weekend and put Linux on it. With two AA batteries it can go for 24 hours. I think the keyboard on this is great. You can actually program on it. I wish Psion would sell an updated version of this. With a slightly clearer screen and wi-fi, that would be as good as it gets. -Caerwyn From rog Mon Oct 11 22:18:56 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] treemap and stuff Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:18:56 +0100 From: rog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-hoghkdkbugzcyadrpcbortofmr" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-hoghkdkbugzcyadrpcbortofmr Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit interesting stuff. i look forward to seeing how you get on with the sound support... also, i wrote all the spree stuff, and it's been very little looked-at apart from by me, so any comments/bug reports are most welcome! re: the treemap program: you might consider using the tk panel widget for this - that way you're drawing directly on the image that Tk uses to update the window, rather than creating a new image each time. still, performance doesn't really seem to be a problem there. i've just had a further look into the sound processing software (signalfs) - this is an interesting area. i've been trying to think it through. i'm inevitably going to be a bit fuzzy, as i've done almost no sound-processing stuff before. i wasn't sure why you wanted the fs to be able to talk recursively to itself, but now i understand why you did it. i'm not entirely convinced that it's a good idea though... yes, i know that ds(3) and certain other device drivers set a bad example by interpreting filenames in the writer's namespace, but it *is* a bad example... the reason the device drivers do it is basically one of efficiency, but the main problem is that doesn't work in a distributed environment. the "clean" way to do this kind of thing is to plumb at the user level, along the same kind of lines as the "pkt" medium in ip(3). so you have normal clients of the filesystem plumbing the data between separate processing modules modules by reading and writing their "data" files. the price you pay here is mainly one of efficiency. but it's also awkward to set it up: there's no easy way of expressing in the shell what is quite a natural configuration. essentially what you've got here, as far as i can see, is a scheme for connecting signal processing modules in a kind of pipeline, or perhaps a tree. you've got one output (the final audio signal), and many inputs, all joined together with separate processing modules. i've been developing an Inferno tool, Alphabet, which you might find helps you with these kind of considerations. i think its problem-domain maps quite nicely onto this kind of thing. it looks very much like just another shell (and its syntax is an exact subset of the Inferno shell's), but while a conventional shell plumbs its programs together with pipes that transmit (only) streams of bytes, Alphabet programs are not so limited. ... hmm, this is getting a bit lengthy, but i really do think this is relevant (and interesting!), and i'm rehearsing my explanations prior to a paper on this, so i'll practice on you, if you don't mind! A Brief Intro to the Alphabet Shell: consider the conventional shell pipeline: sort foobar | uniq | wc this loads three independent, parallel programs, each operating on the output of the previous. in the alphabet shell, we can do the same thing, but the modules in question have types: sort [-u] fd -> fd uniq [-c] fd -> fd wc [-lwc] fd -> fd but we have no way of obtaining a file descriptor (fd) yet, so we need an extra module: read string -> fd also, we need some way of writing the final result to the standard output: print fd -> status ["status" is the equivalent of the exit status that is given by a completed shell command - this is the resulting type expected of any complete alphabet expression] so the pipeline now looks like: read foobar | sort | uniq | wc | print [in fact the pipe syntax is just a convenient shorthand for the equivalent expression: print {wc {uniq {sort {read foobar}}}} ] as written, our pipeline is more awkward than the original - if a program wants a file descriptor as an argument and we give it a string, it's quite likely that the string represents the name of a file to open. we can make this automatic: autoconvert string fd {| read} ("whenever i pass a string to a program that expects an fd, first process it through the `read' program") the pipeline now looks like this: sort foobar | uniq | wc | print we can apply the same thing at the other end: autoconvert fd status {| print} so we end up where we started! sort foobar | uniq | wc BUT... thus far we've been dealing only with those types understood by a normal Unix shell (string, fd and status). alphabet allows an indefinitely extensible set of such types. you can dynamically load a module implementing a new set of types: a "typeset". programs within a typeset understand its types and can act as processing components in much the same way as the conventional pipeline above. SO... to go back to the original problem: how might one wish to express the various components in a sound-processing configuration; what types might be involved? example types: ski a stream of SKINI commands. audio sampled audio data. example modules: sequencer ski [audio...] -> audio given a stream of SKINI commands and a set of voices, apply the sequencing to the voices. wave string -> audio produce a single pitch of the given (argument) frequency. adsr [-a string string] -> audio ADSR module - arguments to -a option might be attribute-value pairs (alternatively one could think of a different letter for each option) combine audio audio -> audio combine two audio streams (in the same way that the "simple" module now does). readski string -> ski read string -> audio read a raw audio file or a raw SKINI file. 2raw audio -> fd convert audio data to a stream of bytes suitable for /dev/audio. example autoconversions: autoconvert string audio {| read} autoconvert string ski {| readski} autoconvert audio status {| 2raw | create /dev/audio} thus one could do something like: sequencer bachfugue.ski \ {wave | combine {adsr -a attack 0.001}} \ {combine myvoice.raw {adsr -a attack 0.002 -a sustain 0.2}} and have the Bach fugue played with two voices (the last autoconversion would cause the result to be sent to the audio device automatically) bear in mind that this is just the top-level view - the underlying implementation can be anything at all. in particular, the types might *look* like one-way communication, but they're not necessarily one-way at all (in fact they can't be, for the above application). the underlying representation of "audio" for example (visible only to programs in the audio typeset), might be (chan of array of byte, chan of string) where the first channel is used to send sampled data, and the second to send control requests (the other direction). obviously some care would have to be taken to avoid deadlock in this case. an RPC mechanism might be more appropriate: chan of (string, chan of (string, array of byte)) where the receiver sends a request and a channel on which to receive a reply, and receives some data (or an error message). the type might not actually directly represent a stream of audio at all - it might hold a data structure representing the set of audio modules, which then might be optimised and perhaps compiled using the JIT compiler... or it might just hold a directory in your existing signalfs filesystem. or it might hold not only the final audio, but also make available all the control channels of the contributing components, thus allowing interactive control of the pipeline. after more thought, one might wish to create separate types depending on the kind of control messages available; perhaps a "pitchedaudio" type for an audio stream that can be pitch-controlled; or one might decide that the ski type is unnecessary and an fd will do just as well. the point is that you can define a framework (the typeset) and then write modules to your heart's content which you can then plug together in arbitrary configurations. inferno namespaces can be a part of this (essential when crossing machine boundaries or providing collaborative services), but they don't have to be the *only* way of going about things. see sh-alphabet(1) for a starting point. i'm afraid that a number of man pages in section two are missing currently (e.g. alphabet-main(2)), but the existing examples should (!) be reasonably clear; try "grid" for an existing typeset to use as a template. if you have a reasonably recent release you should have it (source is in /appl/alphabet) anyway i realise that in my enthusiasm i've gone on for far too long. i hope you find this interesting - i think your existing code could migrate to this kind of framework quite easily, and i think it could solve quite elegantly some of the problems you've been thinking about. thanks for the blog by the way - it's really nice to see the details of someone getting to grips with inferno, and a handy reminder of the odd dark corner we've forgotten over the years! cheers, rog. --upas-hoghkdkbugzcyadrpcbortofmr Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.198.39]) by doppio; Wed Oct 6 04:30:49 BST 2004 From: comcast.net!caerwyn To: vitanuova.com!inferno-list Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 03:24:43 +0000 (GMT) X-Comment: Sending client does not conform to RFC822 minimum requirements X-Comment: Date has been added by Maillennium Received: from comcast.net (h000c41af2c71.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.7.243]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20041006032442015003g7vce>; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 03:24:42 +0000 Subject: [inferno-list] treemap and stuff Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Hi all. I've implemented some treemap algorithms in Limbo. Here's a couple of screenshots Strip view http://caerwyn.home.comcast.net/lab/9/tmap.gif Btree view http://caerwyn.home.comcast.net/lab/8/tmap.gif and source is available from http://caerwyn.home.comcast.net/ipn There is a bug in the squarified view but the others (strip, slice and dice, and btree) seem okay. Also, I've been playing with synthesized sound. See the pages on signalfs. If you've been reading 9fans recently, this is the recursive file system I alluded to. This is a work in progress. -Caerwyn --upas-hoghkdkbugzcyadrpcbortofmr-- From rog Mon Oct 11 22:21:19 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] treemap and stuff Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:21:19 +0100 From: rog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oops, i intended that for caerwyn only! From ionkov.net!lucho Mon Oct 11 23:42:02 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net ([216.148.227.85]) by doppio; Mon Oct 11 23:42:02 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004101122355401400rlo5fe>; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:35:54 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id A6751366527; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:35:53 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: subpixel font support Message-ID: <20041011223553.GA4659@ionkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="IJpNTDwzlM2Ie8A6" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i --IJpNTDwzlM2Ie8A6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi, I implemented support for rendering subpixel fonts (supposedly these fonts look better on LCD displays than the normal antialiased fonts). The changes are pretty simple: 1. The subpixel subfonts are RGB24 images. Currently the only program that generates them is ttf2subf (with -m subpixel option). 2. Changed the semantics of the mask image when it has color channels (and no alpha channel). The current implementation converts the color image to greyscale and then uses the grey channel as alpha. My change takes each separate color channel from the mask, and uses it as a mask _only_ for the appropriate source and destination color channel. Currently it works only for SoverD operation. 3. Font struct has an additional field added that contains the channel description for the maxdepth value (I am assuming that an image with the channel description of the maxdepth subfont is going to able to hold the content of any subfont without loss). fontresize() function sets and uses the new field. If I remember correctly somebody was working on an Limbo application that generates subfonts from ttf fonts. Does anybody has any pointers to it? Is there any chance for this change to get into the distribution? Thanks, Lucho --IJpNTDwzlM2Ie8A6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="subpixel.diff" diff -ubr inferno.orig/include/draw.h inferno/include/draw.h --- inferno.orig/include/draw.h 2003-09-18 10:36:36.000000000 -0400 +++ inferno/include/draw.h 2004-10-08 16:00:36.000000000 -0400 @@ -317,6 +317,7 @@ short nsub; /* number of subfonts */ ulong age; /* increasing counter; used for LRU */ int maxdepth; /* maximum depth of all loaded subfonts */ + int maxchan; /* chan description for the maximum depth */ int ncache; /* size of cache */ int nsubf; /* size of subfont list */ Cacheinfo *cache; diff -ubr inferno.orig/libdraw/font.c inferno/libdraw/font.c --- inferno.orig/libdraw/font.c 2003-01-30 11:53:08.000000000 -0500 +++ inferno/libdraw/font.c 2004-10-08 16:24:31.000000000 -0400 @@ -1,7 +1,7 @@ #include "lib9.h" #include "draw.h" -static int fontresize(Font*, int, int, int); +static int fontresize(Font*, int, int, int, int); static int freeup(Font*); #define PJW 0 /* use NUL==pjw for invisible characters */ @@ -71,7 +71,7 @@ nc = 2*(f->ncache-NFLOOK) + NFLOOK; if(nc <= MAXFCACHE){ if(i == 0) - fontresize(f, f->width, nc, f->maxdepth); + fontresize(f, f->width, nc, f->maxdepth, f->maxchan); /* else flush first; retry will resize */ break; } @@ -281,9 +281,12 @@ return -1; if(f->width < wid) f->width = wid; - if(f->maxdepth < subf->f->bits->depth) + if(f->maxdepth < subf->f->bits->depth) { f->maxdepth = subf->f->bits->depth; - i = fontresize(f, f->width, f->ncache, f->maxdepth); + f->maxchan = subf->f->bits->chan; + } + + i = fontresize(f, f->width, f->ncache, f->maxdepth, f->maxchan); if(i <= 0) return i; /* c is still valid as didn't reallocate f->cache */ @@ -343,7 +346,7 @@ /* return whether resize succeeded && f->cache is unchanged */ static int -fontresize(Font *f, int wid, int ncache, int depth) +fontresize(Font *f, int wid, int ncache, int depth, int chan) { Cacheinfo *i; int ret; @@ -356,7 +359,7 @@ if(depth <= 0) depth = 1; - new = allocimage(d, Rect(0, 0, ncache*wid, f->height), CHAN1(CGrey, depth), 0, 0); + new = allocimage(d, Rect(0, 0, ncache*wid, f->height), chan, 0, 0); if(new == nil){ _drawprint(2, "font cache resize failed: %r\n"); /* abort(); */ @@ -381,6 +384,7 @@ f->cacheimage = new; f->width = wid; f->maxdepth = depth; + f->maxchan = chan; ret = 1; if(f->ncache != ncache){ i = malloc(ncache*sizeof f->cache[0]); diff -ubr inferno.orig/libmemdraw/draw.c inferno/libmemdraw/draw.c --- inferno.orig/libmemdraw/draw.c 2004-05-26 04:19:43.000000000 -0400 +++ inferno/libmemdraw/draw.c 2004-10-11 16:24:08.827861000 -0400 @@ -687,7 +687,9 @@ if(mask->flags&Falpha){ rdmask = readalphafn(mask); mpar.alphaonly = 1; - }else{ + } if (op == SoverD && !(mask->flags&Fgrey)) { + rdmask = readfn(mask); + } else{ mpar.greymaskcall = readfn(mask); mpar.convgrey = 1; rdmask = greymaskread; @@ -978,6 +980,43 @@ obdst = bdst; sadelta = bsrc.alpha == &ones ? 0 : bsrc.delta; + if (bmask.grey == 0) { + int mar, mag, mab; + int fdr, fdg, fdb; + + for(i=0; i MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > supposedly these fonts look better on LCD displays than the normal > antialiased fonts have you tried them? how much better do they look? From ionkov.net!lucho Tue Oct 12 02:01:07 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.198.39]) by doppio; Tue Oct 12 02:01:07 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <20041012005458015003dcrhe>; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:54:58 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 27B0F366527; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:54:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:54:56 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] subpixel font support Message-ID: <20041012005456.GA5108@ionkov.net> References: <20041011223553.GA4659@ionkov.net> <4bb950176fcc708bcd44ce4c75b144c8@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4bb950176fcc708bcd44ce4c75b144c8@vitanuova.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i You can check yourself: http://moria.ionkov.net/subp/antialias.png http://moria.ionkov.net/subp/subpixel.png You can compare with firefox in Linux with subpixel rendering switched on: http://moria.ionkov.net/subp/firefox.png The font is Arial. Tiny is 12pt, Normal is 14pt, Large is 16pt, VLarge is 18pt. I personally like them better than antialiased ones, but still cannot get as good results as in Linux with libXft (at least the one I modified and use). Thanks, Lucho On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 01:21:58AM +0100, rog@vitanuova.com said: > > supposedly these fonts look better on LCD displays than the normal > > antialiased fonts > > have you tried them? how much better do they look? From rog Tue Oct 12 02:20:20 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] subpixel font support Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 02:20:19 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <20041012005456.GA5108@ionkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > You can check yourself: > > http://moria.ionkov.net/subp/antialias.png > http://moria.ionkov.net/subp/subpixel.png hmm. not much to choose from, viewing on my T23 thinkpad. in fact the antialias version looks better in several places to my eyes. oh i see, it's probably because i'm not running in 32 bit mode (presumably this technique won't work if things are shortened to 16 bits?) is it really worth breaking the consistency of the draw interface for this? after all, it might easily be redundant in a few years anyway, as display technology evolves... it's just a hack, after all. rog. From gmail.com!russcox Tue Oct 12 05:06:22 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.202]) by doppio; Tue Oct 12 05:06:22 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 76so273130rnl for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.74.32 with SMTP id w32mr1978353rna; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.65.22 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:13:31 -0400 From: Russ Cox Reply-To: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] subpixel font support In-Reply-To: <47064d3ec37e282a3b8df969200aae30@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20041012005456.GA5108@ionkov.net> <47064d3ec37e282a3b8df969200aae30@vitanuova.com> > is it really worth breaking the consistency of the draw interface > for this? after all, it might easily be redundant in a few years anyway, as > display technology evolves... it's just a hack, after all. my personal reaction would be no, but i'm strongly in the "anti-aliased fonts are no match for well-designed non-anti-aliased fonts" camp. one of my officemates keeps his xterms in some anti-aliased font in which at most 30% of the non-white pixels are full black. i find it impossible to read. russ From gmail.com!fgergo Tue Oct 12 21:57:39 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.194]) by doppio; Tue Oct 12 21:57:39 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 77so382964rnk for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.126.4 with SMTP id y4mr2499504rnc; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.15.36 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:51:21 +0200 From: Reply-To: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: powerpoint tutorials for inferno grids Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, what version of powerpoint do you need to do the slide show properly? thanks: gergo From danny Wed Oct 13 09:17:26 BST 2004 remote from vivido To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] powerpoint tutorials for inferno grids Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:17:26 +0100 From: danny In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mjykkaqymvsaoecauuzhfzwpyq" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mjykkaqymvsaoecauuzhfzwpyq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The slides shows were done in Powerpoint 2002 but you can download the powerpoint viewer from the microsoft site: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/search.aspx?displaylang=en&categoryid=9 Danny --upas-mjykkaqymvsaoecauuzhfzwpyq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.194]) by doppio; Tue Oct 12 21:57:39 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 77so382964rnk for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.126.4 with SMTP id y4mr2499504rnc; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.15.36 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:51:21 +0200 From: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [inferno-list] powerpoint tutorials for inferno grids Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Hi, what version of powerpoint do you need to do the slide show properly? thanks: gergo --upas-mjykkaqymvsaoecauuzhfzwpyq-- From forsyth Wed Oct 13 13:44:58 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] powerpoint tutorials for inferno grids From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:44:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-fzvhtmlwbkqcclwvrzzudxvikk" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-fzvhtmlwbkqcclwvrzzudxvikk Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it almost works in Open Office, but on incrementally updated pages chunks of text and pictures are sometimes only partially replaced. i think i've seen that happen with older versions of MS powerpoint as well. --upas-fzvhtmlwbkqcclwvrzzudxvikk Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:17:26 +0100 From: danny In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-mjykkaqymvsaoecauuzhfzwpyq" Subject: Re: [inferno-list] powerpoint tutorials for inferno grids Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-mjykkaqymvsaoecauuzhfzwpyq Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The slides shows were done in Powerpoint 2002 but you can download the powerpoint viewer from the microsoft site: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/search.aspx?displaylang=en&categoryid=9 Danny --upas-mjykkaqymvsaoecauuzhfzwpyq Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.194]) by doppio; Tue Oct 12 21:57:39 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 77so382964rnk for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.126.4 with SMTP id y4mr2499504rnc; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.15.36 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:51:21 +0200 From: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [inferno-list] powerpoint tutorials for inferno grids Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Hi, what version of powerpoint do you need to do the slide show properly? thanks: gergo --upas-mjykkaqymvsaoecauuzhfzwpyq-- --upas-fzvhtmlwbkqcclwvrzzudxvikk-- From ionkov.net!lucho Wed Oct 13 13:51:41 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.202.64]) by doppio; Wed Oct 13 13:51:41 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2004101312453201600c1dafe>; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:45:32 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id A18FF36652C; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:45:30 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] subpixel font support Message-ID: <20041013124530.GA5118@ionkov.net> References: <20041012005456.GA5108@ionkov.net> <644c3c5eb22dc89de938cfbf4bb8a1e4@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <644c3c5eb22dc89de938cfbf4bb8a1e4@vitanuova.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 02:20:19AM +0100, rog@vitanuova.com said: > > You can check yourself: > > > > http://moria.ionkov.net/subp/antialias.png > > http://moria.ionkov.net/subp/subpixel.png > > hmm. not much to choose from, viewing on my T23 thinkpad. > > in fact the antialias version looks better in several places to my > eyes. Comparing it to the firefox snapshot, there is a big difference. I planned to check if the ttf2subf is the reason for the difference, but considering the entusiasm the patch received, I'll probably come to that sometime next year :) > > oh i see, it's probably because i'm not running in 32 bit mode > (presumably this technique won't work if things are shortened to 16 > bits?) I believe it should work, though I didn't test it. > is it really worth breaking the consistency of the draw interface > for this? after all, it might easily be redundant in a few years anyway, as > display technology evolves... it's just a hack, after all. I don't know if it is worth or not :). IMO applying the color channels from a RGB mask is not less consistent than converting the image to greyscale. Anyway, the change was mostly an excuse to take a look into the libmemdraw code, I don't care much if the patch is accepted. :) Thanks, Lucho From gmail.com!fgergo Wed Oct 13 14:08:19 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.200]) by doppio; Wed Oct 13 14:08:19 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 77so448182rnk for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 06:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.65.39 with SMTP id n39mr2895486rna; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 06:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.15.36 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 06:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:02:07 +0200 From: Reply-To: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] powerpoint tutorials for inferno grids In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Office 2000 and below behave like this. sorry about the noise. On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:44:58 +0100, C H Forsyth wrote: > it almost works in Open Office, but on incrementally updated pages > chunks of text and pictures are sometimes only partially replaced. > i think i've seen that happen with older versions of MS powerpoint as well. > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: danny > To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com > Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:17:26 +0100 > Subject: Re: [inferno-list] powerpoint tutorials for inferno grids > The slides shows were done in Powerpoint 2002 but you can download the powerpoint viewer from the microsoft site: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/search.aspx?displaylang=en&categoryid=9 > > Danny > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: > To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:51:21 +0200 > Subject: [inferno-list] powerpoint tutorials for inferno grids > Hi, > > what version of powerpoint do you need to do the slide show properly? > > thanks: gergo > > From forsyth Wed Oct 13 14:09:50 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] powerpoint tutorials for inferno grids From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:09:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > sorry about the noise. it seemed a reasonable question to me. From ionkov.net!lucho Wed Oct 13 14:11:31 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net ([204.127.202.56]) by doppio; Wed Oct 13 14:11:31 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <200410131305220120032na1e>; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:05:22 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id CDFC736652C; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:05:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:05:26 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] subpixel font support Message-ID: <20041013130526.GA5275@ionkov.net> References: <20041012005456.GA5108@ionkov.net> <644c3c5eb22dc89de938cfbf4bb8a1e4@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <644c3c5eb22dc89de938cfbf4bb8a1e4@vitanuova.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i BTW, I just tried to see the screenshots using wm/view (using emu -Cr8g8b8) and the subpixel one looks much worse than if I use some Linux image viewer. Did you by any chance use wm/view or charon to see them? Thanks, Lucho On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 02:20:19AM +0100, rog@vitanuova.com said: > > You can check yourself: > > > > http://moria.ionkov.net/subp/antialias.png > > http://moria.ionkov.net/subp/subpixel.png > > hmm. not much to choose from, viewing on my T23 thinkpad. > > in fact the antialias version looks better in several places to my > eyes. > > oh i see, it's probably because i'm not running in 32 bit mode > (presumably this technique won't work if things are shortened to 16 > bits?) > > is it really worth breaking the consistency of the draw interface > for this? after all, it might easily be redundant in a few years anyway, as > display technology evolves... it's just a hack, after all. > > rog. From cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mirtchov Wed Oct 13 18:05:04 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ensc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.2.4]) by doppio; Wed Oct 13 18:05:04 BST 2004 Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (imgw1 [136.159.5.9]) by ensc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9DGtbti029267 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:55:37 -0600 Received: from fbsd (fbsd [136.159.7.68]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DGtTfs031196 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:55:29 -0600 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:55:24 -0600 (MDT) From: andrey mirtchovski To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: arrays in adt Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.9 required=6.8 X-Spam-Level: ** suppose i have the following: A: adt { one: int; two: array of int; }; a: A; b: ref A; c: A; and somewhere within the code: init a ... b = ref a; b.one = W; b.two[1] = X; print 'a' ... c = a; c.one = Y; c.two[2] = Z; print 'a' reading the limbo documentation i would expect both b's ref assignment and c's normal assignment to create full copies of a, but when implemented it prints a's original value for 'one' (expected) but 'two' has been modified by the assignments to b and c above (unexpected). have i missed anything in the docs? how do i make a full copy of an object when assigning it to another? thanks: andrey From rog Wed Oct 13 18:15:59 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] arrays in adt Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:15:59 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-ouohjosnfrbgomlptsyqbzwxsw" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-ouohjosnfrbgomlptsyqbzwxsw Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the array inside A is copied by reference, as is true for all arrays in Limbo. you have got a full copy of A, but the array reference still points to the same place. to copy the array as well, you need to create a new array. e.g. c = a; c.two = array[len a.two] of int; c.two[0:] = a.two; a fairly common idiom is to shorten the array alloc/copy to: c.two = (array[len a.two] of int)[0:] = a.two; note that these semantics apply to any reference values inside the array - just like C, where you copying a struct doesn't copy the items that the struct points to. the only difference is that C has by-value arrays inside its structs, which Limbo doesn't allow. we've thought a little about putting by-value arrays (vectors?) into Limbo, but there are lots of issues to get right. cheers, rog. --upas-ouohjosnfrbgomlptsyqbzwxsw Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ensc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.2.4]) by doppio; Wed Oct 13 18:05:04 BST 2004 Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (imgw1 [136.159.5.9]) by ensc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9DGtbti029267 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:55:37 -0600 Received: from fbsd (fbsd [136.159.7.68]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DGtTfs031196 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:55:29 -0600 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:55:24 -0600 (MDT) From: andrey mirtchovski To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.9 required=6.8 X-Spam-Level: ** Subject: [inferno-list] arrays in adt Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk suppose i have the following: A: adt { one: int; two: array of int; }; a: A; b: ref A; c: A; and somewhere within the code: init a ... b = ref a; b.one = W; b.two[1] = X; print 'a' ... c = a; c.one = Y; c.two[2] = Z; print 'a' reading the limbo documentation i would expect both b's ref assignment and c's normal assignment to create full copies of a, but when implemented it prints a's original value for 'one' (expected) but 'two' has been modified by the assignments to b and c above (unexpected). have i missed anything in the docs? how do i make a full copy of an object when assigning it to another? thanks: andrey --upas-ouohjosnfrbgomlptsyqbzwxsw-- From rog Wed Oct 13 19:30:34 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] subpixel font support Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:30:34 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <20041013130526.GA5275@ionkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Did you by any chance use wm/view or charon to see them? hmm, yes i did. charon's the only decent viewer for png images i've got on my laptop (plan 9 does have a PNG viewer but it only supports 24bit per pixel, which your png images aren't). i can't think of any way to view them properly (i guess you could convert them to gif, but i imagine there might be two many colours used to get a perfect representation; and jpg similarly might distort the image). oh well. From cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mirtchov Wed Oct 13 20:22:18 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plan9.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.220.110]) by doppio; Wed Oct 13 20:22:18 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] arrays in adt Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:15:59 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > the array inside A is copied by reference, as is true for all arrays > in Limbo. > thanks, i get it now :) i'll use the same email to announce sokoban for inferno, written in native limbo: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/inferno/sokoban.tgz feel free to include it in the distribution if you feel like. there's one change that needs to be done -- at the top of sokoban.b modify the SokoMain variable that points to the root of the sokoban levels and images directories. screenshot: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/screenshots/sokoban-inferno.gif glenda is controlled via the arrow keys, the buttons on top change previous/next level and restart (the non-smiley face). that's about all :) andrey From rog Wed Oct 13 20:45:09 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] arrays in adt Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:45:09 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wtppfrhjhbpoctpduwhdevszar" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wtppfrhjhbpoctpduwhdevszar Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cool! that works really nicely... note that the ".tgz" file is a straight tar file, not a gzipped tar file, as the name might imply. i made a quick modification to allow restoring back to a marked position, something i find quite useful when playing around with a complex level. use "s" to save the current position, and "S" to restore back to it. i've included the modified code. cheers, rog. --upas-wtppfrhjhbpoctpduwhdevszar Content-Type: application/octet-stream Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=sokoban.b.gz Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 H4sIALCFbUEAA7UaaXPbNvYz+SsQpalIU1Lk9NhdqvZs26RpZ3pknXT6wfV0KBKSOaJIlqQi cVP/930HAEKXayXZzsYS8B4e3n1Amy7LTC5l3ojXxaKYRvnEddM8zlaJFL26rUfL3sR14Eso Xrf1pIMlVbRmIH4LxXP4C4vnaV1mUTsQ3xV5MxBXMoa/r4oUFz8so7kciNdxJWWudmUVCuCh qBqRMIWEKYSikjOhyFn3Ngu+tVmE4s1iCxBnKQiiwbxCJP5moU5Xs7RgPPoaim/wA5Y/FLBh OJqqXddF5fwUpXnoxEUu6qZK87nojZ4iCfexaG6laNaFmEZ1GotMvpVZPRDFW1lVaSKjaSbd H3HzRVS3IrxwNDkRiB5jP5UAGtVZDBQJ9fuoSo6g3gJIoaq7U9SsqMsqbSRcDDzWTZQ3tfsy k3kSXSGhLUp0oH5apfPbZjRNGyDFqD8eQ83kTGP+8FuUZYR3CHENQI34Ylk2JLAjDqFKBGvc b6NqXhzHjRGscV8WUWbwD6LPAWPvyFGeEdsIB5CjsqW5QkPNszlcEjIU5BnjiftNFC/mVbHK E3aW84mL+godWj2buMQ4wz4DtcPVCvY5ryz4F9osvPySDD6nHZEVxQK9EA0jojwRZEz35Y+w DjUzL69w0zDi/hT9V254+QzAuGwV9J/AegGepcCf/0ut2279OsXTLClROuMTwfl44hBUIRNd BrYIRLYXsp3ihoiqqljX7q+lEvuLf3z2JajlebFW4YUbn2EYoCBmB7RjCYM7oB13GW3YDKGT Yoxz8IROlDTinevMlfYo10CsAjqQ1Ks0T1AbvEiKXOrvxCgQqaqoFcVMmC8MjosSBJ3lXhaK WmYzQZf6IX9O3DvgI2M+6MASMgEkUF5odg1NdSheVRUf0jt19FYCF/aKKIF7iiFaM13OBwJ9 F0IenYYX6ivG4UBQiA3QZ2aQgefkIwPlQgMxhfON3MAOeDZQ46RLeRpdvGyq+DbKQ4F/kVWV soHZZRLfdvucECdg5UpmUSMT0RSQeF2gyiTfLIaXb4oyY1FcVWtCsSySFSTHd2iLtCGdxs2m UckfCsLw8lsoJMQiiPU2FFlaN92VPiu7BnrAEiqG1Hp9gyhAtTeroqUUo1lvAIvpqmnAd0az EQXNEEJ5GZWiXoKq/oiLrKj+0GkOgIkYi2FcLJcYXO9q0JjAOzLQ/d0OOVLrQXomw95HMNgn KCGBVxbJKKmXaSbbvyM1ZkpZNJUZCSqGqD3xjuNCnO/Alxr+E/uoOl9CEjN66gSsoZpRwtlG OgYwUhCYaGzBl8cgYjhLocRs1F6OvJYWAn+fFfGq5gU6gSSNe4f6ByyJAAsxfn3LyQV6XrMs 0XHUuRFTob8+5oiZhwgXFyJPMx99Cruh4eUMim3eePw9zRJZe8/8gejlharGS7ksKmDjSfV7 3kNKjtykmD3uXNepZLOqcgGUIXHeYcuVNsc9H27ec3zkHC4XF1AIogSbM/w3vHz19ZvvVVOm YUhNkVRQamw0mHof/qsRuv5JI+kuynwxtBqzQUL4fLo7R7GvySolAxSFHanlxHksorpeQaRG 2ToCUdZFtaix8WJll3GTeSTezy9+e/Xy6hXpBJUKgO0UpVOR40HyAbsz3IcbO0YblYlI40QK DKdyUm9gifg9eCcJxElbCcULz3R0yk00zkM9JY7yvGhEGVW1FCrzP6nRYYCHLeK251DmRf3t ytuAmnNIdghQsiMqXrRMyAFnRSW8FH19PBGp+AouhV6WUydsBIEPV8F3Pq0A1+mNbzvE8JJi Os3LVcOIvcU06YVhD6oFfCi7dOjQi1LDz8gMBoWCHrmp8joFC+QMijQVOf5uqiKsa9mw2cZ0 BF1cmVEj0X5dRuscCxo6jbY/AEB7Srj9mgTihjqy9BeMsAq1hZrt1GKsnYtKXEIe/vRTUV2P b9Dw/Ud939idzd6DGQD0LjcyXjXYr/Wf1H009O/oatCsV9fnIaoYrKvTAhRYYHZbgl0PpwQA FvUmEx+ihrodJ6Pe4Ksh9qkUYGATcXEpAET+UXL9ZknOMpJl/xDYUx8qqyKWdQ073jFs4E8U FUM0YF3JP7c2lRBAllnRzrFeoojEjqIfM3nl5oTuUYA2xaL2EUjKhZXMoeH0YnBAwfkVzCK8 24Qw0Rq9rMdhCFQjiDEAecAsE+L93vC8h7JacvbLPlNzesE+MDfA8R6s0rA7l//coRktDPjH JQhtRyyhqpGT/p990Jfo/6ePRFW4O0CRdq/6ShN2ZDiHY0PHAZwu+fQrfVrnKPRarYBtiodJ DocdUStB9Kj0QzM+S+erSqpGoq8ajR6MTWpOVrcG4txnGqgf0CRx9/Med5yXVDYdwqETWA2C /werteaRenBMvvruEY4CHqNaDfqFoE+ywmtLQAvlEfbw/rt9URDFJmvk7g4bzn4tUYc4OeEn Dkz4SWNSd+kji10ccmx9okva1wSBoe1QRoLzM6jr9a1MrDTrY3LYpgoMnk/cbZUv91Wu2kxL 5XSvPzmWzyGCZtmqvvV81auFpuRx66YSQq3S7ZNE6P9BfiXJYLAZVaMl5KXNYGej3dqINjsY sNFSTbHEKqFTrJpW9AJs3/wtmVdlAtNPj9lGeXjQ8vRMRzJQt5mNGATHy9FGnF0IHqVp3Zp1 i5dTEcKXNK8ciHIUJYlHg5jHRwYK1SeXpbSiTIJ2HmNCIXmQH6/qhj/KqkYV5AXniGzj2sPh DvKdlpGGZW9KmQ34C3lKVKJeCJvVM5BVswvfqbk5RTol3pQk6x5adrnGsfaAdPwatYOrBuQD 6PTKtYPNQ/UBZH6N2sFWk/gBdHqN2sHmQf4I8kH61rS/fwyCV1tIVQbbCWt8ymFHJLcXZ50D IqztYK2Gtdz5wC2qyRV//aXuTDaejymNyXbbbbfdct6h02bYyuWaukCPHMAbD6AyDYRHZAbq GGxodMIdYScBjRMg81DzPKoWrcyyYk3q2mLRp8x8wsAm8LBvj23UOEHvRnzqJNAjbXf97HaG sNLeOk2a260SQ8L5+KoohreScvUuuPWVBbHBa1XH3mJlZIvAArp1zG6IsFEIG4OwgYVCcLoQ zUb0eb25uW5v1Pu7B2rm2zgB64RFQqnES9nMGnxAe9LqlrcfstC5uicsh57Tad7Gl3Ukqrh1 nVZ/ISxwiimPoEUJwwLeMdBD6S9XL75+rvpuQj1xxKJJlLk2AxYuybxmtgI+SHsmZ5E3TnCX Hy7149KzMT8vnWE8HtgaiztxN7GGRo3DSEo1AMc6p5WwvgWGPI/aX5BxNJdN7EGhvbzQzRql vpiLd3+iu4ru4PY5iLr+79BjwXQS40Kp8sUv31FIOA4VekJRhEwdVw2Wjv4LEQRUh+C/jdV/ bV3Ie2CfmOYgIKvbDGrsSFK7sVNMKB1dE0IQ3OCEzaSO2IIh72MPhw9bEjht9/1OABuSt1Gq VW7J1X9sKcmKITiORYIpbLB3ImxxFJsq0C76J0fRKenvop8dRTd1YvfI6N4ju9j/fgj7un8x BqI8sksqeMDFD6J0puncG+74s11dp9NM4rBcRTHMugJfPbi5fgLT15OY5m72t3Mo0eomPXJh 5wsOu4EZSaVS8lRdJS/EhnMF+kicFbUkFzG/QqD/IumJmeV5n1KorCQ+esy9MmpurQRqniNp pE/MjEuJEHEH/LRnp0FAOzULIjlV6jD5qVRI6sBLtpMhXGI/ijLnWABnieIgPZkBSsNExcrD +1c7RnepqTz6qQg1NKfeSRht0k973PpSj2RBKBoQZDqlvYMGZU3tngXF0EaA5LbRglAcEFl6 H7dA6kdUgvGb+R7wSh1kl2csvJ567G0GuJGb2g0Tv04f6ntovjqM+E22knN8g+NSzoOfbPkt QtAHKRYt3k11ZkBB/ETVKf1uIVs4AOMnhSVXJnOQI30+glifj9rh+Q15CHffEIyq98WwYso8 OdoD5U5GmOPUQKSsXltR0o0xEbiXj2fMRzcGUOBvs+Dcd9pOyJYQp5HYTtI0aEMwEQldMbGK 3qPMC8WHKqH3otopuytw9x/pUvNDDUJi4L8p+O4CduhFgjV8r02Cj+cbwYf4RrDrG6fYNfhw 1wg+gmsED3eN4HTXCE51jWDbNehtij2iy32YPSf3+Aj4I979MXxkeE5cvZ+PQOR2fJzqI+bw +/uIReK9fcTo8u99pEN9sI9YRx7mI7Y9tI9Y75b79fGocYKP5yTBhzhJ8CFOEny4kwQfwUmC hztJcLqTBKc6iW0P7STWr+ckEHU0NFLzo/nB/0sO/d5CL1pAKn7w+Ahs3NE7CHRS9u+mz8bd z6VKvPTmehzS+Go2Jh2nMXHZ/UZjOi/D3da0cJ3dmF8A8P3bPMCHRizVsu09/0CLr1jiJyDX 2X9D6nCuxzf8lKRcRG+rKY3txD6gGBxbUp0jd/8DElqLhkEqAAA= --upas-wtppfrhjhbpoctpduwhdevszar-- From cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mirtchov Wed Oct 13 20:58:23 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plan9.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.220.110]) by doppio; Wed Oct 13 20:58:23 BST 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] arrays in adt Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:52:14 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <56bb476e12b861319df52c720bc88386@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > cool! > > that works really nicely... > i've put your modification on the web. the .tgz was a mishap, i've fixed it. it's good to see your changes, i find it a much faster way to learn good limbo. andrey From ionkov.net!lucho Wed Oct 13 21:03:54 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net ([216.148.227.85]) by doppio; Wed Oct 13 21:03:54 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004101319574501400rm98me>; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:57:45 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 2AE9636652C; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:57:52 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] subpixel font support Message-ID: <20041013195752.GA6278@ionkov.net> References: <20041013130526.GA5275@ionkov.net> <87e0385840afd6263b2d5a70ec2b550d@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87e0385840afd6263b2d5a70ec2b550d@vitanuova.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i I created the images again in Plan9. They look good with page (32bit mode), but still not good enough with wm/view. http://moria.ionkov.net/subp/default.png http://moria.ionkov.net/subp/antialias.png http://moria.ionkov.net/subp/subpixel.png default.png is how the page looks with the default charon fonts. Thanks, Lucho On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 07:30:34PM +0100, rog@vitanuova.com said: > > Did you by any chance use wm/view or charon to see them? > > hmm, yes i did. charon's the only decent viewer for png images i've > got on my laptop (plan 9 does have a PNG viewer but it only supports > 24bit per pixel, which your png images aren't). > > i can't think of any way to view them properly (i guess you could > convert them to gif, but i imagine there might be two many colours > used to get a perfect representation; and jpg similarly might distort > the image). > > oh well. From rog Wed Oct 13 21:10:15 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] subpixel font support Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:10:15 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <20041013195752.GA6278@ionkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-iargjoyifxmpsdyvlcgcrdzzfj" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-iargjoyifxmpsdyvlcgcrdzzfj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the subpixel version still looks significantly worse on my display than the antialiased version. i get various dark bits that stand out (for instance, between the "t" and the "i" in "optimizer". --upas-iargjoyifxmpsdyvlcgcrdzzfj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net ([216.148.227.85]) by doppio; Wed Oct 13 21:03:54 BST 2004 Received: from moria.ionkov.net ([68.36.169.182]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004101319574501400rm98me>; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:57:45 +0000 Received: by moria.ionkov.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 2AE9636652C; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:57:52 -0400 From: Latchesar Ionkov To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-ID: <20041013195752.GA6278@ionkov.net> References: <20041013130526.GA5275@ionkov.net> <87e0385840afd6263b2d5a70ec2b550d@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87e0385840afd6263b2d5a70ec2b550d@vitanuova.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: [inferno-list] subpixel font support Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk I created the images again in Plan9. They look good with page (32bit mode), but still not good enough with wm/view. http://moria.ionkov.net/subp/default.png http://moria.ionkov.net/subp/antialias.png http://moria.ionkov.net/subp/subpixel.png default.png is how the page looks with the default charon fonts. Thanks, Lucho On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 07:30:34PM +0100, rog@vitanuova.com said: > > Did you by any chance use wm/view or charon to see them? > > hmm, yes i did. charon's the only decent viewer for png images i've > got on my laptop (plan 9 does have a PNG viewer but it only supports > 24bit per pixel, which your png images aren't). > > i can't think of any way to view them properly (i guess you could > convert them to gif, but i imagine there might be two many colours > used to get a perfect representation; and jpg similarly might distort > the image). > > oh well. --upas-iargjoyifxmpsdyvlcgcrdzzfj-- From parvat.com!martin_ml Thu Oct 14 07:46:31 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.176]) by doppio; Thu Oct 14 07:46:31 BST 2004 Received: from [212.227.126.206] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1CHzHh-0003hi-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:40:21 +0200 Received: from [220.226.33.223] (helo=vayu) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1CHzHd-0008PC-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:40:20 +0200 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:13:27 +0530 From: Martin C. Atkins To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] subpixel font support Message-Id: <20041014121327.3cedd5b3.martin_ml@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: <823c68e702aeb2d9fbcaadf6e381735b@vitanuova.com> References: <20041013195752.GA6278@ionkov.net> <823c68e702aeb2d9fbcaadf6e381735b@vitanuova.com> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:36ac05c78f2d71fdd8502b36d47d3e88 On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:10:15 +0100 rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > the subpixel version still looks significantly worse on my > display than the antialiased version. > > i get various dark bits that stand out (for instance, between > the "t" and the "i" in "optimizer". > Forgive me if I'm getting the ideas mixed up, but isn't this the "technology" that depends on the order of the pixels in your LCD? If so, then maybe you have different orders? (This is one reason why the approach is less attractive, for me) Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin@parvat.com Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited http://www.parvat.com From forsyth Thu Oct 14 09:44:15 BST 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:44:15 +0100 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] subpixel font support In-Reply-To: <20041014121327.3cedd5b3.martin_ml@parvat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Forgive me if I'm getting the ideas mixed up, but isn't this the >>"technology" that depends on the order of the pixels in your LCD? i'm fairly sure that's right, and that's why i decided to ignore it after looking at it some time ago. (it's not the order of the pixels, but the order of the [possible] subcomponents of the physical element that corresponds to each pixel value: they are given suitable values to deceive the eye in some sense, but it will depend on how your display is built, and the effect is usually asymmetric in several ways.) building subtle assumptions about particular parameters of physical display technologies into graphics primitives (i thought) would prove to be about as short-sighted as building the particular gamma correction for particular CRTs into graphics images and calling it a `web standard' (just in time for CRTs to be replaced by LCDs). in both cases, it's not the transformation that is troublesome, but where it is done. there might be a way to do it that isn't troublesome, as there is with gamma correction. From gmail.com!fgergo Thu Oct 14 10:29:24 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.202]) by doppio; Thu Oct 14 10:29:24 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 77so80249rnk for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 02:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.65.39 with SMTP id n39mr3369384rna; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 02:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.15.51 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 02:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:23:15 +0200 From: Reply-To: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] arrays in adt In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <56bb476e12b861319df52c720bc88386@vitanuova.com> (i think) there is a typo at line 166 in sokoban.b: if you want the sad smiley to restart the level change 'r' to 'R' cheers: gergo On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:52:14 -0600, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > > cool! > > > > that works really nicely... > > > > i've put your modification on the web. the .tgz was a mishap, i've > fixed it. > > it's good to see your changes, i find it a much faster way to learn > good limbo. > > andrey > > From parvat.com!martin_ml Thu Oct 14 11:07:40 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.190]) by doppio; Thu Oct 14 11:07:40 BST 2004 Received: from [212.227.126.209] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1CI2QN-0002tI-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:01:31 +0200 Received: from [203.101.58.226] (helo=agni) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1CI2QM-0002yR-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:01:31 +0200 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:29:18 +0530 From: Martin C. Atkins To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] subpixel font support Message-Id: <20041014152918.26c69358.martin_ml@parvat.com> In-Reply-To: <149f161f0ecc8c8f20845f37ef3e766d@vitanuova.com> References: <20041014121327.3cedd5b3.martin_ml@parvat.com> <149f161f0ecc8c8f20845f37ef3e766d@vitanuova.com> Organization: Parvat Infotech (Private) Limited X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:36ac05c78f2d71fdd8502b36d47d3e88 On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:44:15 +0100 C H Forsyth wrote: >... > after looking at it some time ago. (it's not the order of the pixels, > but the order of the [possible] subcomponents of the physical element > that corresponds to each pixel value: they are given suitable values Of course, that's what I meant - the order of the RGB elements in each pixel. Martin -- Martin C. Atkins martin_ml@parvat.com Parvat Infotech Private Limited http://www.parvat.com{/,/martin} From cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mirtchov Thu Oct 14 15:27:14 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plan9.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.220.110]) by doppio; Thu Oct 14 15:27:14 BST 2004 Message-ID: <1cdee200f49803c868fdb32b1725d9ac@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] arrays in adt Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:21:04 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > (i think) there is a typo at line 166 in sokoban.b: > if you want the sad smiley to restart the level change 'r' to 'R' > > cheers: gergo > thanks, i've made the change but the source won't make it to the web for a while -- major disaster with the compsci servers at ucalgary last night. plan9.ucalgary, as usual, is not affected :) andrey From rog Thu Oct 14 15:30:08 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] arrays in adt Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:30:08 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <1cdee200f49803c868fdb32b1725d9ac@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-geqffuhmgkcklavdjgyuylrmcf" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-geqffuhmgkcklavdjgyuylrmcf Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > plan9.ucalgary, as usual, is not affected : perhaps you're getting mail from this list then... attached is another version which also allows switching between level sets. --upas-geqffuhmgkcklavdjgyuylrmcf Content-Type: application/octet-stream Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=sokoban.b.gz Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 H4sICBtQbkEAAy91c3Ivcm9nL2xpbWJvL290aGVyL3Nva29iYW4vc29rb2Jhbi5iAJ0aa2/b RvKz9CumyqWiLIqxcsEBR8XGJbGbBpekOSdFP7hGQVGUTJgiWZKypIvV337zWnL1ctoLEJvc mZ2dmZ03Hc/zJJpHaQWfs7tsHKSjdjtOw2QxiaBTrktv3hm1W/jgw+d1OWpgkyJYCpCefLjA n/hyEZd5Eqxd+CFLKxeuohB/fspienk3D2aRC5/DIopSXY0KH5CHrKhgIhQmQsGHIpqCkrPO re7k1OrOhy93W4AwiVEQA5Y3QpInC3W8mMaZ4PGjD6/pF76+y3Ch5mgsq/W+Igomk7iQnfri o4z8YOHdRetxFhQTQfw5d+EiW6LEV/HsFvXwPppW9Rn/VlzU+xO+gw9BnPqtMEuhrIo4nUHn WRKPn5VyPUjwMJLXYQrVbQTVMoNxUMYhJNF9lJQuZPdRUcSTKBgnkcGK6TagzIu4ihAFaZVV kFZl+20SpZPgyocWH2COgz5ywpvKZwUJ4o3jCg8V9Pf+cewE5VXkd78ESfII6hLBBvVynlfr R3AjghvkN0Exyx5BDglukN9mQaIbjuHPEGVvzyP0Cb+Wke7mERnjVDHbr+nmV8LFi3+O5H3d vONVyRW2WRlu+3UQ3s2KbJFO3Dap0m0zX3R7EGdVUNvANEuSbEmWEQYpjCPEmI/jNJrAMq5u IUOcAiJx/dLDTc6HoLiDMp6l8TSOSiaCFwvZFAKYowEBSkGLeHYGSVxWECA4LtNuhdunxBNk gsIGDXFVRsm057WJsttmhbtqLsLx8B/F8PTlS2a89eTPcNpuvyd9+K1gUsHXdosUHZNvt2ZC t8VRhUJW/N8IgeZ1kqX4Ks/MHpIoimDN8pkHAZOwpcElafGF5UUMR0MZ/uhxDHgEitxFS2Rh mjpyIhw80QVmVcJhT8IeC6ms+EQAr5iU2QBduI9CswkxwyxfH8bcIVlGFXn2YZq5b2L1vW9k nOGGb+H3fGjUdYQNVddx6DRO4/I2mhwVg4/YoGLZJ9JgjlqT8DeSpdK6VEvmcFEUDN/SRDue z1wgv8Xgx7YJtdO7QIHIBQ4xuE4RDH8VEr/F1FwY4/4qWuEKOhpSE/Kc5ZB8XhXhbZCipeNP 4kjzHfIzn4S3zboR4QluT4IKDb/KMGu1kahQ/HI3OP+S5YnyrYnaR6+cLDCeoxvg8RWrLaxW lWZOzKaD8zeYhZlDlAqv1BiqHNkTbVJmQZbAPxO7vL4hFKTamRaoY/CmHRdfxouqQp/1ph5p AwYYwuZBDuUcNfVbmCVZ8ZsJ9AicwCkM0JPnFCS+lhRJ6AzC2OyQY60epFenmeMEGWWPYoSp rLBoBpNyHifR+hu0ZJtQC2+zOIxsocnADm1DLxegbEyCcZTwDhiQ7uGrhCwY7sDnBv6BAw6c CjzHEF9ruVaPxUGJiZwVuY1+DFArg8FMbQs+PwaBwTROEljpWkpc5xaCPE+zcFHKy4Zrx7g6 boVpnOwZIdkv1pdwBkkWTKjKpP+D80+vvvyo1aWBETUlqVCu0AyYizj5WSNolWZQtFYzvw1a Uy8aRFM11g81xapeYFl7srvZx+5qyGoxi1DSiaevlOyCslygcwXJMkCJl1lxV7ZbrInBeR5W icNK+Hj5y6e3V59Ycxzmq2Q7qJjg0XIwXGAgE3gPD2z4rDR28L0wKRc6GkU6riXhj2gHLA9H KGJ695QKZaPASwA9kVCRHv7ucBTPCnBiCianI4jhJRokFqkSYnCh3++1W0RfdivgOr7hc5HN kraKqUdVSeptxVOHAWdnrAa0F1UTMlU5ndLEwzTTjVKN/JoyQ61oFVNq2qByiXanI1w6I2Cq 3zFVfUG1JfxEXJbQP4PbiUCwgAPaWbPeaVwSa5lpPFsUEQzug2SB1dPXTr/sdzbMQJ2tSKEH dmOC5V2CjEYk646pHfvYAPDKs06/poXseGUSdnq28Q7O2dXjNF9UeszdeNLx/Q4mI/ylRtSg Y83PzZggC1h4kFpVrLvOn2Bu5vr0xqOKQ+DkompgBpPXyzxYppQbyZyNZWLOabdVDfvpDS3C 5PSeeaAAUdDNkfE1llNbRgoFnGNE//57KJAxMpPud909M8EOCE0zWkXhoqK6uPu07PrwtPyV fAAboOJ66JMVkqEUUbUokC4zuy3Arutx/GJzGvXQm7kqTdjQXg6o0me/R/XD2TkgRyRDLoWA yHGSsCR7W/DidEteZGFUlrjgHMFF1iArGGDWl0X0u72m3CNJZsIYwHJOojEjQjsU0hoACDkM SqzJSSzMXZRcZNlmq5t32dM6kkMOIKQGQZLRIZQrRanTqUFiab/pOC0yBvbm2kfYBFrfcin0 U+NJhP24sRPGYXPnkyxPL3kJbYn+b8iOLGHxv9TXZDysYLpufO7+3uVb6/6nK9Jr8OoW+l4f 6VExzSx1F3swKsMFdrULa8Rq0FNLQLxL4eCT7kS1WpjkaRQbv0EQBjC0iaZK9ONhopIlTIED w2Mn9PuHmf4539UAdU6Oc+rCYNgjDBrAHMURFBrLHEYZDF2UmnB4gnMYqcbZtLfFM32N0+vB 1j7qSVG24ehYCN2mQ+hNVCuTKMqdv5+esu3t+xqbXNLk0d26iyzPCSTok4MVpiLiqmbPUTpu UzN9fPXh8qF+e/PTh0+v3nxpFi4uP7+5/Hjx7uNbzX7l7tmagHerhEDqAxaRuxEsCzxyp5FY DFcSaIAvKNSX1/w6eOFzxFcfbosXUsxDv/VlxwBe3IDvcx7fiu+ygHpq1G/3iOKdduCZ26me i/euFu8dLBB0FCcGIdF0K2rtb9bOwNrskDv01SJpMLDiesijR28FJyAjIwWuLeDaANdiONiQ asUEDw+Ab17hTVZOj0KkEG6W183yusehnneD1qsexmQuCBya57LLnPZccJiMq9twwaAzrkf5 BvMqIkvJfhEUd+uIxlI9vdCGRb44tuuppGt5jpMJFiHPkXQHizuZWM6jeVasgTajUT8tTJnH mRVTO/OpSseuBLjNN6WNfSO5fR/LeFLd2hchKqKqb3AbsdfvANfq62TJa7XkNVmyXge+oTGT xxPGSjFWDcYK3xSD/Z+HRHj//Pt6dXO9vkEdo37XKL+6/4h6hC0Z0OUqPGuRT4KKM6Gas1Ab +zJiagY7PAircw/GTXDEpE5yD88SC8JnFo/LLr7zHGl46OCOYhvMXk9KRMphY7KcZkKpkR4t jPhxChmYcPchZjePqRxs8WhzH1lnL/v4NPfcR5eBzT42jx0fjpyhw579XTRV3UeXYdEBbB4I 6SGU53TBojJ16vD956TcRrPHTLuIGwrxuxvMjOqYQo4LeFQnklGaYgq9sx7AsTGpjbdba/PA DTq9jKUpz3LsNWifa9r0n64uX11oqiNcDQdQ57lj8SAM0jSrpOl+WlIgQF8n0qyTuudrt+YB 88XmL5FrpCPgZuL1/FRmXidUch9YOt1scFMuSt2ntp3j7BljK6H8bdSxvEX+HCdUjXhYwIZU FZwjWES2iu3uSGulZtv2LgzY3V+xsMJkGNKLavTypx84mrZID4wgVFAPHg0i+v01R0K8LuGq pbpXwtw/4TZhqE6n76XoipYyzHYB6fWsrIr/HO2Ve54q6gxUZbvwlEo60ky/LyC5j792HSIT BTBzD/hvXQu1AeMXZIRYEot4rJUnRilWrMWNFFl474r4IkQ4jMievo35t8OYVvjZxj95DJ+8 cxvdO4y+j/ivI4hWiOINeX1HYsucZ7ZJ9R8lVR/9bUonppN7zKHpe2hZxuMkog67CEJskYGm SdIDPMWO6WnIzbpYDtbboRyjzs7NFpryCktEMvZVz5g9GclKsrX2GMbStO0ob3Yct6lPtxsT KlbPpWgdDIi+o51JjLmabZvsUe3crYdJIxM6zViFwuWMQzBEVHljoHX4EyNXjWQDWxC2CgLV AXpvY42y5PRoQcmqCRBJDrQgbA1MlofNFkg/6jJMBtB7wCvdKFcvWHQ856htBiR/jO2Kkgf8 zqHCkCvjw4ivsdmf0bxKFDpOgvQukRJa720nSv3VT250LYl0Q1NoyFOI97ZDlFRwe2FKSr8b PWfDG2kNpLi2DUsbH1MK6mTUlH/xDbYv5G3WqxIfNf0Lq0Fk5l740Y9/3M0Y4U5IqHBHKFOY 7ollalpLsAMtnLcjS7grSyMc7VchQhbiiVYs/Km5NN+asbjF4jPOeN62wMZ0cI/vGBPwl6eC c/f9+PdR/kSG/aPU0MiZHE32Kw1UnaWI2ETTNSb8IT3OuO5FcmSd+fOtJW++SDB8WTXwUClG WDMPOYdaZWFddMk50vuTiTA2FsjDB42u9M28Lo4f2LlrEvrKhMbPrfOem8YKV880S1GXJ68c Xjin2wfC9/CH0HvQyI4P5vQa9blLRB6gjjI7ImzM2INX+RTZOXOVuVmPTpITeiJ1UyWoGvju uSTYNIZNVP7Mp2r2XZ58UXinhsWYGzY2N/gDrfcBnHtkg8WT4kU2sJ/yx3yQrwG1w1ubz4D2 /kGb2WSDPE/W1ORiv0lfg5sK0P47AGTDHin42LgS6AjqgVVjvYHVKqvrUOFDJ5M+p3FRVnP6 Gw60B+HRjKXpNkgf9zzoweTE9dj4ES3VxFhJ45EVmI7og82O3vWGxXaaGyaMhkWt0QiCKTKw tvPVcM2B6eNuZE9raMKm0tbGwYPO/ahHKmNLNH+XIHbpmvumB75uStf2Pe7C8UGbEzHsxkwH A4sNnsX+JTYMdTlvn41t+HE2yFtqNmaPu4r8CQV/TtH8sXunFq16ahke/ksM89lja7CBtZIG fZlttFv745EG5/r0RoYkbelBHLMulWYTLuroRYiG+VMrhwyZ8briyIPq1vqMVP9VBnsS8WKK C+5HCVu1G/9//SdXdX7ThhqK1qdHZTQmRv8H37u5Z3QpAAA= --upas-geqffuhmgkcklavdjgyuylrmcf-- From cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mirtchov Thu Oct 14 17:30:21 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ensc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.2.4]) by doppio; Thu Oct 14 17:30:21 BST 2004 Received: from imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (imgw1 [136.159.5.9]) by ensc.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9EGNWdd029830 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:23:32 -0600 Received: from fbsd (fbsd [136.159.7.68]) by imgw1.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGNQfs032132 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:23:27 -0600 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:23:12 -0600 (MDT) From: andrey mirtchovski To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] arrays in adt In-Reply-To: <784e1ac57d23fc50f927538d70b19809@vitanuova.com> Message-ID: References: <784e1ac57d23fc50f927538d70b19809@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.9 required=6.8 X-Spam-Level: ** On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 rog@vitanuova.com wrote: >> plan9.ucalgary, as usual, is not affected : > > perhaps you're getting mail from this list then... > > attached is another version which also allows switching > between level sets. > this change is in too now, and everything is on the web. a made a slight modification in addition to the level selector: the level index is a choice button too now, allowing one to jump to another level immediately. i also lowercased all text (L and M) -- much quieter that way. andrey From itic.ca!plan9 Thu Oct 14 18:05:37 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mailfe08.swip.net ([212.247.154.225]) by doppio; Thu Oct 14 18:05:37 BST 2004 X-T2-Posting-ID: DHyTcmvpfFZ7F9AHWZPMItqyyZaGIZ2SEImXYRPuD8M= Received: from [213.103.103.6] (HELO itic.ca) by mailfe08.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.4) with ESMTP id 189633819 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:59:13 +0200 Received: from 192.168.0.103 ([192.168.0.103]) by itic.ca; Thu Oct 14 12:59:09 EDT 2004 From: To: Subject: RE : iPaq sokoban Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:58:56 +0200 Message-ID: <000301c4b20f$181d8d60$6700a8c0@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C4B21F.DBB10BC0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <1cdee200f49803c868fdb32b1725d9ac@plan9.ucalgary.ca> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C4B21F.DBB10BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resized images for iPaq small screen... Works fine with {Boardx,Boardy}=13 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C4B21F.DBB10BC0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="images.zip" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="images.zip" UEsDBBQAAgAIACBmTjHDQjxjyAAAAAgBAAAKAAAAX3JpZ2h0LmJpdIXKMUoDQRSH8VcMKCHB3mob sTUEglZ6Ag9gqymDYi6wyayCsNtnFvYOW23xThD4T/9esweYI8wIWdOENAG/6ld8r+/Lj8/FarV4 G2XHlvfZqbvzns7+9XT+kJVIAR5I0IRYqrL3vmJl4a5M0rt9ozsViPwE9vXLMLR9okkBDtVgyPYS OxsE3oyKoQbEIkpD469961W7PNFV3h5+VyM6mzQ25rbwPVRsArvLp/yXxhuImhu63iAIVesa5tk6 YfnmrcjW7eiRLv4AUEsDBBQAAgAIACBmTjGnVeduugAAAAIBAAAKAAAAX2VtcHR5LmJpdIXIMUoD QRTG8U9YRAQhQrB1PYEuAc0VQhDs7dQtg2IukNkN2mw5V5grpHjltN8B3rvCHOFNpY3YCP6rH//n 183be7/d9i+n7U+bZfvbzd/uFv+6u120E2thdVaWSv0sJqYmguPANFV1caqb0PO+CI242EtRJsxH ES04G8QjZrjC3ahk/qCoFHF0g1rGQ7NCM9BTcGvWuMT5Lu4qrpsOj8HyyROOcB9q+n59cGI2FmOc NMZDTDGmnA7DF1BLAwQUAAIACAAgZk4xPsygMMYAAAANAQAACQAAAF9nb2FsLmJpdIXLMUoDURCH 8SlUNIgIFmK3na3BgPaeIQcIuoVFUMwFdveRiLDlFLsHeFfYYspXpJkD/OcK7whvKrUQG8Gv+jXf 48v69a3ebOqnWfXT+r767eZvz2//9fxuUfXqWd3VNbviPZsYEu/pqFXu3cpyVXMaoJI+sjAtgRGg q63K6kFAFERK6DPqCeNggGrqFOHg5Pi6SVtX3o+gs2BSYiiG4fSyE+Pg+jU/tyh02HwPhS52oiaS uXGatUXpPGTT1IN54hg5pjh1n1BLAwQUAAIACAAgZk4xV5ErhtQAAAAUAQAADgAAAF9nb2FsY2Fy Z28uYml0hY0xasMwFIbtwUvoBbp5y1qjJWNA3j2pQ9ck9hRamgskFoVSlO0FogPoCMmgUVATeN2f lh5AR5CmukPIUug3ffDx8y+e1y+vq81mtZyUV9az8sbD316xf72aVaXCFDAlTBgSkgreegIYyHoE lXzk9VN7MBatU8GC2F90VxsaG5LUX98XLQoX4S1Qq3Gf3cu8Prqx1Y9aH9op4+BUwqPoWlGwOT+B ij52BZuyPOcwPqAlUcxz3vTmdxf9IHnTcEGwTdnuPQ6fAI7QZR/yDEZmd7059z9QSwMEFAACAAgA IGZOMXhfO2bEAAAACQEAAAkAAABfbGVmdC5iaXSFxj2qwkAQAOApUgn22qWzVUS0MuBR3tPXiaIX 8CcWwtpZZAO5QyqLPcAjMNPPNDnAHmE3kLUSG8Gv+n436+1utd+vlp34ZT2L34afPxp//Wg6jBV6 i95hjdajUyJGWG4tkTUP5ZnZ3XRVa2JW1iCVTQh/JMgpGlsGgLQpjHtcLBO1NXQPAn1YXKlpQyiR hVOPqHPopSTGZSfPEiXHUEU/0I+SS2hzJwyTaA6DU2H57K3JITk2BQwO/8pknGtdZZozvj8BUEsD BBQAAgAIACBmTjG5QQe7zwAAABMBAAAKAAAAX2NhcmdvLmJpdIWMMWrDMBSGrUEdegpv7ejgJWNA 3tNFJ2hjT6ElOUHioQSU7QWswVt1hQ5vFDQEXvanK+gI0hQvpUug3/TBz/e/vq8/NqvtdvX2WP6y npd/VPd9Vv/rs3lVGsqRcqJMMRN/xoCBA2LxsCMwmROibU8WCb2JSOF4sZ10TFA8H+z1ehm0HJIz kUdLx7FrRDN4Q2i1taf2qVbgi5eD7lrdyIX6ApNCakUt64VQ/fRPyFoKoZZ7N2WcwrlXaqk0T1ug kM4/AJ7JGwb4BtcDgHP7G1BLAwQUAAIACAAgZk4xV6/orqYAAADxAAAACQAAAF93YWxsLmJpdIXJ MQrCMBSH8YeGGquIk+IglKK7ooi7JynasSh6geafiotj9rfkCj1A3p476SIugt/0g+94ri7X8nYr T2n2qdpn31a/vd789Xq7y6yIONVpnLQWuvcQHwIAVilaBz2oQX0jjtLGRwY/nQ9oQwgRiGwFTiin BRhQuYmepjYw83iiZoYPjecIpjktDTPNVDLs1pYSPbIo+FAL6ToMR+93RwEuCj19+wVQSwMEFAAC AAgAIGZOMb3d3Y8sAAAAeAAAAAgAAABfd2luLmJpdEvOzy0oSi0uTk3hUoCBXAsFBDDAwbYkzDYy VWhgEGFoZLDnYWhgkOBAggwAUEsBAhQAFAACAAgAIGZOMcNCPGPIAAAACAEAAAoAAAAAAAAAAAAg AAAAAAAAAF9yaWdodC5iaXRQSwECFAAUAAIACAAgZk4xp1XnbroAAAACAQAACgAAAAAAAAAAACAA AADwAAAAX2VtcHR5LmJpdFBLAQIUABQAAgAIACBmTjE+zKAwxgAAAA0BAAAJAAAAAAAAAAAAIAAA ANIBAABfZ29hbC5iaXRQSwECFAAUAAIACAAgZk4xV5ErhtQAAAAUAQAADgAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAC/ AgAAX2dvYWxjYXJnby5iaXRQSwECFAAUAAIACAAgZk4xeF87ZsQAAAAJAQAACQAAAAAAAAAAACAA AAC/AwAAX2xlZnQuYml0UEsBAhQAFAACAAgAIGZOMblBB7vPAAAAEwEAAAoAAAAAAAAAAAAgAAAA qgQAAF9jYXJnby5iaXRQSwECFAAUAAIACAAgZk4xV6/orqYAAADxAAAACQAAAAAAAAAAACAAAACh BQAAX3dhbGwuYml0UEsBAhQAFAACAAgAIGZOMb3d3Y8sAAAAeAAAAAgAAAAAAAAAAAAgAAAAbgYA AF93aW4uYml0UEsFBgAAAAAIAAgAvwEAAMAGAAAAAA== ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C4B21F.DBB10BC0-- From csc.com!cjones83 Fri Oct 15 14:51:36 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Fri Oct 15 14:51:36 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i9FDjRiD007933 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:45:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: Re: grid endpoints To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:45:12 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 10/15/2004 10:02:42 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Oops! I found it. Sorry. Maybe /dis/alphabet/endpoint.dis is just a stray. -Caerwyn From rog Fri Oct 15 14:53:12 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Re: grid endpoints Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:53:12 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Oops! I found it. Sorry. Maybe /dis/alphabet/endpoint.dis is just a stray. erm, what was the original question? i seem to have missed a previous message... From csc.com!cjones83 Fri Oct 15 15:23:11 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Fri Oct 15 15:23:11 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i9FEH0F9017941 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:17:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Re: grid endpoints To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:16:40 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 10/15/2004 10:34:16 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> Oops! I found it. Sorry. Maybe /dis/alphabet/endpoint.dis is just a stray. > erm, what was the original question? > i seem to have missed a previous message...] I couldn't find the source for /dis/alphabet/endpoint* I still can't for /dis/alphabet/endpoint.dis but I'm guessing it's not used for anything. Some parts of the grid software are released and some aren't, such as scheduler(4) (including the man pages). I wasn't sure if the alphabet/grid software was all there. From rog Fri Oct 15 15:30:14 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Re: grid endpoints Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:30:14 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I still can't for /dis/alphabet/endpoint.dis but I'm guessing it's not used > for anything. yes, i think it must be a stray - it doesn't exist here any more, and i seem recall that initially i named the module "endpoint" rather than "endpoints"... > Some parts of the grid software are released and some aren't, > such as scheduler(4) (including the man pages). I wasn't sure > if the alphabet/grid software was all there. yes, the scheduler stuff is released under a different license. it's not essential for using the alphabet grid typeset though (rexecsrv is sufficient). i really only mentioned the grid typeset because it's quite simple, but shows the essentials. i'm working on a way to make it easier to add new typesets (all the information on a typeset goes in one file, which is then processed to produce, for instance, grid.m, gridtypes.m, grid.b and gridtypes.b) rog. From csc.com!cjones83 Fri Oct 15 16:02:27 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Fri Oct 15 16:02:27 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i9FEuGjW005638 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:56:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Re: grid endpoints To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:56:02 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 10/15/2004 11:13:32 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII It doesn't look like my first email today got through either, so i'll ask again. In /appl/alphabet some of the modules have multiple module names in the implement statement, and the first named module is empty. E.g., implement Farm, Gridmodule; ... Farm: module{}; What is the purpose of this? What does limbo actually support with this statement? From rog Fri Oct 15 16:54:44 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Re: grid endpoints Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:54:44 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In /appl/alphabet some of the modules have multiple module names in the > implement statement, > and the first named module is empty. > E.g., > > implement Farm, Gridmodule; > ... > Farm: module{}; > > What is the purpose of this? > What does limbo actually support with this statement? that's my doing. i'll explain why i do it.... Limbo now allows a module to implement several module types at once. the actual type of the module is the union of those type, meaning that it can be loaded as either of them. a null module type (e.g. the "Farm" module above) is compatible with any module, and hence makes no difference when unioned with another module type. the reason i started using the above idiom is because the name of the module type shows up in a ps(1) listing. with the alphabet stuff, i've got many different modules all implementing the same module type, and it's useful to be able to see which process corresponds to which module implementation. normal shell modules usually get around this by declaring their own module type, but this isn't great for more complicated module types. you could do the same for a normal inferno shell module, e.g. implement Ls, Command; include "sys.m"; include "draw.m"; include "sh.m"; Ls: module {}; .... instead of the usual: implement Ls; include "sys.m"; include "draw.m"; Ls: module { init: fn(nil: ref Draw->Context, argv: list of string); }; hope this makes sense! cheers, rog. From forsyth Fri Oct 15 17:02:22 BST 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Re: grid endpoints From: C H Forsyth Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:02:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>the reason i started using the above idiom is because the name of the >>module type shows up in a ps(1) listing. to reduce the need to introduce obscurity i'll probably just improve prog/ps. i've done it in several different ways in the past, but never released it because i wasn't completely happy with either scheme. i've got more important sources of unhappiness now so having forgotten my earlier objections, i'll probably do something about it soon. it can also produce better results than the module{} trick because that doesn't show the module name when the module calls something else, as sometimes happens. Bufio seems to be a favourite. From csc.com!cjones83 Fri Oct 15 19:09:13 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Fri Oct 15 19:09:13 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i9FCrYo8008666 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:53:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: implement n1, n2 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:53:20 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 10/15/2004 09:10:49 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In /appl/alphabet some of the modules have multiple module names in the implement statement, and the first named module is empty. E.g., implement Farm, Gridmodule; ... Farm: module{}; What is the purpose of this? What does limbo actually support with this statement? Thanks. -Caerwyn From rog Fri Oct 15 20:05:59 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] arrays in adt Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:05:59 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-yhqhpsbzqmvlgckxkvvpxwgwyo" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-yhqhpsbzqmvlgckxkvvpxwgwyo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > this change is in too now, and everything is on the web. > > a made a slight modification in addition to the level selector: the level > index is a choice button too now, allowing one to jump to another level > immediately. i also lowercased all text (L and M) -- much quieter that > way. another couple of changes: with large screens the display update time was a little bit slow, so i added an extra field to keep track of the dirty rectangle so only the rectangle that's been changed gets redrawn. also, i changed it to get the tile size from the icons themselves (actually, it uses the "empty.bit" icons) so you can just bind a new set of icons over the original set (e.g. those tiny ipaq ones) and get a different sized display. and i've just added a way of using the mouse to move glenda (click on the square you want to move to, horizontal or vertical moves only) which should be better for touch screens. i'd like to include a way of accessing undo/redo with only a mouse too. oh the joys of working on something nice and fun and easy when i should be doing something hard and boring instead! cheers, rog. --upas-yhqhpsbzqmvlgckxkvvpxwgwyo Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=sokoban.b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit implement Sokoban; include "sys.m"; sys: Sys; include "draw.m"; draw: Draw; Display, Font, Rect, Point, Image, Screen, Pointer: import draw; display: ref Display; include "tk.m"; tk: Tk; include "tkclient.m"; tkclient: Tkclient; include "bufio.m"; bufio: Bufio; Iobuf: import bufio; include "readdir.m"; readdir: Readdir; include "keyboard.m"; Up, Down, Right, Left: import Keyboard; # SokoMain: con string "/lib/sokoban"; SokoMain: con string "."; # the two basic levels, overrideable # the image sprites, constants GlendaR: con SokoMain + "/images/right.bit"; GlendaL: con SokoMain + "/images/left.bit"; IWall: con SokoMain + "/images/wall.bit"; IEmpty: con SokoMain + "/images/empty.bit"; ICargo: con SokoMain + "/images/cargo.bit"; IGoalCargo: con SokoMain + "/images/goalcargo.bit"; IGoal: con SokoMain + "/images/goal.bit"; IWin: con SokoMain + "/images/win.bit"; Boardx, Boardy: int; # levels Empty, Background, Wall, Goal: con iota; # the following can be combined with other elements. # (Mark signifies the end of a move in the undo list and isn't # found on the board itself). Mark, Cargo, Glenda: con 16r10<Toplevel; Sokoban: module { init: fn(ctxt: ref Draw->Context, argv: list of string); }; sokocmd := array[] of { "frame .f", "button .f.left -bitmap small_color_left.bit -bd 0 -command {send cmd left}", "button .f.right -bitmap small_color_right.bit -bd 0 -command {send cmd right}", "button .f.restart -bitmap sadsmiley.bit -bd 0 -command {send cmd restart}", "choicebutton .f.levelset -command {send cmd newlevelset}", "choicebutton .f.level -command {send cmd newlevel}", "label .f.l -text {level: }", "label .f.m -text {moves: 0}", "pack .f.left .f.right .f.levelset -side left", "pack .f.l -side left", "pack .f.level -side left", "pack .f.restart -side right", "pack .f.m -side right", "pack .f -fill x", "panel .p", "bind .p {send click %x %y}", "pack .p", "focus .p", }; init(ctxt: ref Draw->Context, nil: list of string) { sys = load Sys Sys->PATH; draw = load Draw Draw->PATH; tk = load Tk Tk->PATH; bufio = load Bufio Bufio->PATH; readdir = load Readdir Readdir->PATH; tkclient = load Tkclient Tkclient->PATH; tkclient->init(); if (ctxt == nil) ctxt = tkclient->makedrawcontext(); if(ctxt == nil){ sys->fprint(sys->fildes(2), "sokoban: no window context\n"); raise "fail:bad context"; } display = ctxt.display; # assume always works sys->pctl(Sys->NEWPGRP, nil); ctlchan: chan of string; (win, ctlchan) = tkclient->toplevel(ctxt, nil, "Sokoban", Tkclient->Hide); cmdch = chan of string; tk->namechan(win, cmdch, "cmd"); clickch = chan of string; tk->namechan(win, clickch, "click"); for (i := 0; i < len sokocmd; i++) cmd(win, sokocmd[i]); levs := levelsets(); if(levs == nil){ sys->print("sokoban: no levels found\n"); exit; } s := ""; for(; levs != nil; levs = tl levs) s += hd levs + " "; cmd(win, ".f.levelset configure -values {"+s+"}"); levelname = cmd(win, ".f.levelset getvalue"); loadlevels(SokoMain+"/levels/"+levelname+ ".slc"); s = ""; for(i = 1; i <= len levels; i++) s += string i + " "; cmd(win, ".f.level configure -values {"+s+"}"); tkclient->startinput(win, "kbd"::"ptr"::nil); tkclient->onscreen(win, nil); loadimages(); currlevel = levels[0].copy(); drawlevel(currlevel); spawn winctl(ctlchan); } cmd(win: ref Tk->Toplevel, s: string): string { r := tk->cmd(win, s); if(len r > 0 && r[0] == '!'){ sys->print("error executing '%s': %s\n", s, r[1:]); } return r; } winctl(ctlchan: chan of string) { for(;;){ redraw := 0; alt{ ls := <-win.ctxt.ptr => tk->pointer(win, *ls); ls := <-win.ctxt.kbd => processkbd(ls); redraw = 1; ls := <-win.ctxt.ctl or ls = <-win.wreq or ls = <-ctlchan => tkclient->wmctl(win, ls); c := <-cmdch => case c { "left" => processkbd('p'); "right" => processkbd('n'); "restart" => processkbd('R'); "newlevelset" => s := cmd(win, ".f.levelset getvalue"); if(s != levelname){ loadlevels(SokoMain+"/levels/"+s+".slc"); currlevel = levels[0].copy(); redraw = 1; levelname = s; s = ""; for(i := 1; i <= len levels; i++) s += string i + " "; cmd(win, ".f.level configure -values {"+s+"}"); } "newlevel" => s := cmd(win, ".f.level getvalue"); currlevel = levels[int s - 1].copy(); } redraw = 1; c := <-clickch => (nil, toks) := sys->tokenize(c, " "); p := Point(int hd toks, int hd tl toks); p.x /= Boardx; p.y /= Boardy; if(p.x != currlevel.glenda.x && p.y != currlevel.glenda.y) break; vec := p.sub(currlevel.glenda); (vec.x, vec.y) = (sgn(vec.x), sgn(vec.y)); while(!currlevel.glenda.eq(p) && currlevel.move(vec)) ; redraw = 1; } if(redraw){ if(currlevel.finished()) currlevel.done = 1; drawlevel(currlevel); if(currlevel.done){ sys->sleep(300); processkbd('n'); } } } } processkbd(kbd: int) { case kbd { 'q' or 'Q' => exit; 'r' => currlevel.redo(); 'u' => currlevel.undo(); 'R' => currlevel = levels[currlevel.n].copy(); 'p' or 'P' => if(currlevel.n > 0) currlevel = levels[currlevel.n - 1].copy(); 'n' or 'N' => if(currlevel.n < len levels - 1) currlevel = levels[++currlevel.n].copy(); Up => currlevel.move((0, -1)); Down => currlevel.move((0, 1)); Left => currlevel.move((-1, 0)); Right => currlevel.move((1, 0)); } } levelsets(): list of string { (a, nil) := readdir->init(SokoMain+"/levels", Readdir->NAME|Readdir->COMPACT|Readdir->DESCENDING); levs: list of string; for(i := 0; i < len a; i++){ s := a[i].name; if(len s > 4 && s[len s-4:] == ".slc") levs = s[0:len s - 4] :: levs; } return levs; } drawlevel(l: ref Level) { cmd(win, ".f.m configure -text 'moves: " + string l.moves); cmd(win, ".f.l configure -text 'level: "); cmd(win, ".f.level set " + string l.n); sizex := l.size.x * Boardx; sizey := l.size.y * Boardy; if(img == nil || img.r.dx() != sizex || img.r.dy() != sizey) { img = display.newimage(Rect((0, 0), (sizex, sizey)), display.image.chans, 0, Draw->Darkyellow); if(img == nil) sys->fprint(sys->fildes(2), "no image memory (img): %r\n"); tk->putimage(win, ".p", img, nil); cmd(win, ".p configure -width " + string sizex + " -height " + string sizey); } dirty := l.dirty; for(y := dirty.min.y; y < dirty.max.y; y++) for(x := dirty.min.x; x < dirty.max.x; x++) drawboard(l.board[x][y], (x, y), l.done); cmd(win, ".p dirty "+r2s((l.dirty.min.mul(Boardx), l.dirty.max.mul(Boardy)))); cmd(win, "update"); l.dirty = Norect; } r2s(r: Rect): string { return sys->sprint("%d %d %d %d", r.min.x, r.min.y, r.max.x, r.max.y); } drawboard(b: int, p: Point, done: int) { p = (Boardx*p.x, Boardy*p.y); r := Rect(p, p.add((Boardx, Boardy))); case b { Background => img.draw(r, bg, nil, img.r.min); Empty => img.draw(r, empty, nil, img.r.min); Wall => img.draw(r, wall, nil, img.r.min); Cargo|Empty => img.draw(r, cargo, nil, img.r.min); Goal => img.draw(r, goal, nil, img.r.min); Glenda|Empty or Glenda|Goal => if(done){ img.draw(r, empty, nil, img.r.min); img.draw(r, text, winimg, img.r.min); }else img.draw(r, glenda, nil, img.r.min); Cargo|Goal => img.draw(r, goalcargo, nil, img.r.min); } } loadlevels(file: string) { x := 0; y := 0; buf := bufio->open(file, Bufio->OREAD); if(buf == nil) { sys->fprint(sys->fildes(2), "cannot load %s: %r", file); exit; } max := Point(0, 0); board := array[20] of {* => array[20] of {* => 0}}; pglenda := Point(0, 0); levs: list of ref Level; lcurr := 0; while((c := buf.getc()) >= 0) { case c { ';' => while((c = buf.getc()) != '\n' && c != Bufio->EOF) ; '\n' => max.y = ++y; x = 0; if(buf.getc() == '\n') { levs = Level.new(board, max) :: levs; (hd levs).glenda = pglenda; (hd levs).n = lcurr++; board = array[20] of {* => array[20] of {* => 0}}; max = (0, 0); y = 0; } else buf.ungetc(); '#' => board[x][y] = Wall; x++; ' ' => board[x][y] = Empty; x++; '$' => board[x][y] = Cargo|Empty; x++; '*' => board[x][y] = Cargo|Goal; x++; '.' => board[x][y] = Goal; x++; '@' => board[x][y] = Glenda|Empty; pglenda = Point(x, y); x++; '+' => board[x][y] = Glenda|Goal; pglenda = Point(x, y); x++; * => sys->fprint(sys->fildes(2), "impossible character for level %d: %c\n", lcurr+1, c); exit; } if(x > max.x) max.x = x; } levels = array[len levs] of ref Level; for(i := len levels - 1; i >= 0; i--) (levels[i], levs) = (hd levs, tl levs); } loadimages() { goal = ereadimg(IGoal); cargo = ereadimg(ICargo); goalcargo = ereadimg(IGoalCargo); wall = ereadimg(IWall); empty = ereadimg(IEmpty); gleft = ereadimg(GlendaL); gright = ereadimg(GlendaR); glenda = gright; winimg = ereadimg(IWin); Boardx = empty.r.dx(); Boardy = empty.r.dy(); bg = display.color(Draw->Darkyellow); text = display.color(Draw->Bluegreen); } blanklevel: Level; Level.new(board: array of array of int, size: Point): ref Level { l := ref blanklevel; l.board = array[size.x] of {* => array[size.y] of int}; l.size = size; for(i := 0; i < size.x; i++) l.board[i][0:] = board[i][0:size.y]; l.dirty = ((0, 0), size); return l; } Level.copy(l: self ref Level): ref Level { c := ref *l; c.board = array[l.size.x] of {* => array[l.size.y] of int}; for(i := 0; i < l.size.x; i++) c.board[i][0:] = l.board[i]; l.dirty = ((0, 0), l.size); return c; } # glenda moves in the direction of unit-vector vec. Level.move(l: self ref Level, vec: Point): int { if(l.done) return 0; g := l.glenda; moved := 0; p1 := g.add(vec); p2 := g.add(vec.mul(2)); case b1 := l.get(p1) { Empty or Goal => moved = 1; l.set(p1, b1|Glenda|Mark); Empty|Cargo or Goal|Cargo => b2 := l.get(p2); if(b2 == Empty || b2 == Goal){ l.set(p1, b1 & ~Cargo | Glenda | Mark); l.set(p2, b2 | Cargo); moved = 1; } } if(moved){ l.set(g, l.get(g) & ~Glenda); l.glenda = p1; l.moves++; } return moved; } Level.set(l: self ref Level, p: Point, v: int) { l.undos = (p, l.board[p.x][p.y] | (v & Mark)) :: l.undos; l.redos = nil; l.board[p.x][p.y] = v & ~Mark; l.dirty = l.dirty.combine(((p.x, p.y), (p.x+1, p.y+1))); } applychange(a, b: list of (Point, int), l: ref Level): (int, list of (Point, int), list of (Point, int)) { if(a == nil) return (0, a, b); firstmark := Mark; for(;;){ (p, v) := hd a; b = (p, l.board[p.x][p.y] | firstmark) :: b; l.board[p.x][p.y] = v & ~Mark; l.dirty = l.dirty.combine(((p.x, p.y), (p.x+1, p.y+1))); if(v & Glenda) l.glenda = p; firstmark = 0; a = tl a; if(v & Mark) break; } return (1, a, b); } Level.undo(l: self ref Level) { moved: int; (moved, l.undos, l.redos) = applychange(l.undos, l.redos, l); if(moved) l.moves--; } Level.redo(l: self ref Level) { moved: int; (moved, l.redos, l.undos) = applychange(l.redos, l.undos, l); if(moved) l.moves++; } Level.get(l: self ref Level, p: Point): int { return l.board[p.x][p.y]; } Level.finished(c: self ref Level): int { for(x := 0; x < len c.board; x++) for(y := 0; y < len c.board[0]; y++) if((c.board[x][y] & ~Glenda) == Goal) return 0; return 1; } ereadimg(path: string): ref Image { i := display.open(path); if(i == nil) { sys->fprint(sys->fildes(2), "cannot load image: %s: %r", path); exit; } return i; } sgn(x: int): int { if(x == 0) return 0; if(x > 0) return 1; return -1; } --upas-yhqhpsbzqmvlgckxkvvpxwgwyo-- From cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mirtchov Fri Oct 15 20:31:04 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plan9.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.220.110]) by doppio; Fri Oct 15 20:31:04 BST 2004 Message-ID: <9b530525313010aa6179a4eecd0b9e7c@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] arrays in adt Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:24:54 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit done, the changes are on the web. i want to modify your code to change the mouse clicking semantics -- whenever an Empty or GoalEmpty cell is clicked Glenda goes there if there's a path to it from the current location (it's a simple depth-first search through the level, there are examples of it in plan9's xscr/maze). whenever the player wants glenda to push a pebble we keep the original 'only move in a straight line' semantics. i'm busy trying to get Plan 9 to recognize the special scrolling device on my ibm mouse, so i'll do it later today or tomorrow. we get 15cm of snow tomorrow so i'll have plenty of time to play :) > oh the joys of working on something nice and fun and easy when i > should be doing something hard and boring instead! ain't it great? writing for inferno or plan9 feels so good it actually relaxes :) andrey From rog Fri Oct 15 20:52:20 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] arrays in adt Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:52:20 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: <9b530525313010aa6179a4eecd0b9e7c@plan9.ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > a simple depth-first search through the level shortest-path, preferably, if you care about total number of moves executed... i couldn't be bothered! mind you, i already find the mouse interface nicer than the keyboard. From csc.com!cjones83 Fri Oct 15 21:50:06 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Fri Oct 15 21:50:06 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i9FCvc48012929 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:57:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: grid endpoints To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:57:23 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 10/15/2004 09:14:53 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The endpoints source for the alphabet/grid is missing from the distribution, through the dis files are included. Is this intentional? I'm guessing the grid scheduler is not included on purpose. -Caerwyn From csc.com!cjones83 Fri Oct 15 22:04:02 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Fri Oct 15 22:04:02 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i9FGNPni012922 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:23:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Re: grid endpoints To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:23:11 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 10/15/2004 12:40:41 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > to reduce the need to introduce obscurity i'll probably just improve prog/ps. that would be great. i've been reduced to clicking Refresh quickly many times in the task manager to track down the right module so I could kill it. From rog Fri Oct 15 22:17:48 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Re: grid endpoints Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:17:48 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > that would be great. i've been reduced to clicking Refresh quickly many > times > in the task manager to track down the right module so I could kill it. stack(1) is useful. (aside: for inspecting more detailed data, there's a new program called "stackv" that prettyprints all of a process's accessible data, but i haven't got around to writing a man page yet, and i don't think it's in the current distribution). From gmail.com!fgergo Sun Oct 17 21:53:45 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.196]) by doppio; Sun Oct 17 21:53:45 BST 2004 Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 77so120198rnk for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:47:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=M4QVmBjnDthkDnzxennHKVtnIMHGbY0KTHilNYgLK7dW1a7au7+Bc3AfX/hZIZf22kX0boRqKMXNyD6Y3NepGm2+HSNz+L86Yk9tzOwj9c12qESe5KujKXLzBhX54OBhL135a4xoDVCWRQRLUX0iPMrybYjbDMezoUcsnTqwJnE Received: by 10.38.78.23 with SMTP id a23mr1148059rnb; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.15.52 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 22:47:35 +0200 From: Reply-To: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] arrays in adt In-Reply-To: <375566aa9de9256a0e71b98f64a42ecb@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <375566aa9de9256a0e71b98f64a42ecb@vitanuova.com> i was thinking of putting mouse control to sokoban as well, but wasn't sure how to do it properly, and what semantics to give to a click at various places. i'm glad you did it. as far as i can remember, there was no undo in the first pc version of sokoban. though i think it is a rather useful feature. i put the following 3 lines to be able to undo with button 3: line 106: "bind .p {send cmd undo}", line 199: "undo" => processkbd('u'); cheers: gergo On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:05:59 +0100, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > > this change is in too now, and everything is on the web. > > > > a made a slight modification in addition to the level selector: the level > > index is a choice button too now, allowing one to jump to another level > > immediately. i also lowercased all text (L and M) -- much quieter that > > way. > > another couple of changes: > > with large screens the display update time was a little bit slow, so i > added an extra field to keep track of the dirty rectangle so only the > rectangle that's been changed gets redrawn. > > also, i changed it to get the tile size from the icons themselves > (actually, it uses the "empty.bit" icons) so you can just bind a new > set of icons over the original set (e.g. those tiny ipaq ones) and > get a different sized display. > > and i've just added a way of using the mouse to move glenda (click on > the square you want to move to, horizontal or vertical moves only) > which should be better for touch screens. i'd like to include a way > of accessing undo/redo with only a mouse too. > > oh the joys of working on something nice and fun and easy when i > should be doing something hard and boring instead! > > cheers, > rog. > > > From cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mirtchov Mon Oct 18 17:17:20 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plan9.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.220.110]) by doppio; Mon Oct 18 17:17:20 BST 2004 Message-ID: <87d03b296867482e3d7c8c370adfa8f8@plan9.ucalgary.ca> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] arrays in adt Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:11:05 -0600 From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > line 106: > "bind .p {send cmd undo}", > line 199: > "undo" => > processkbd('u'); > > cheers: gergo > thanks, i added the changes in. i was looking for an image in /icons that i can use for an undo button at the top, but it doesn't seem like there is one... andrey From csc.com!cjones83 Thu Oct 21 20:02:51 BST 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Thu Oct 21 20:02:51 BST 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id i9LIudRf022429 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:56:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: alphabet-grid To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:56:25 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 10/21/2004 03:14:13 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi. What could I use as a default set of decls for the /appl/alphabet/rexecsrv.sh command? I can't seem to get this started because I have no idea what I'm doing. Thanks -Caerwyn From gmail.com!fgergo Mon Oct 25 23:32:32 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.204]) by doppio; Mon Oct 25 23:32:32 GMT 2004 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 68so98701wri for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:26:20 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Yn52hrf/JLNvqZZ+w88yTfbyR3d2OP5WfpHtIDJ5lpWuAxTtxCefIEsiBXdSd9+BL1E+fRpAAwszWmoYVL9NVObvmO6vM74EOmQxLaYDKAssYyE7IQ3KaXf6cYIShg4lvFNcpbPHBWQyBIk7K1IwxZx5RhUF0geJbeWkd0bftSQ= Received: by 10.38.163.76 with SMTP id l76mr57937rne; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.15.52 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:39:40 +0200 From: Reply-To: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: acme - win Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, how can I stop win, in order to be able to minimize acme to the toolbar(?) without leaving acme's original window content on the background? thanks: gergo From csc.com!cjones83 Tue Oct 26 12:37:43 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Tue Oct 26 12:37:43 GMT 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i9QCVVhc013352 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:31:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: Re: [inferno-list] acme - win To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:31:16 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 10/26/2004 08:49:18 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > how can I stop win, in order to be able to minimize acme to the > toolbar(?) without leaving acme's original window content on the > background? Close win with the Delete command. I don't think this problem has anything to do with win. It happens to me just from moving the acme window around too much. -Caerwyn From gmail.com!fgergo Tue Oct 26 16:13:41 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.205]) by doppio; Tue Oct 26 16:13:41 GMT 2004 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 64so190973wri for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:07:29 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=qPW87BrufYJv1Yikp1ZpClQF4qjXkhq0kGsof98i3DtxmE/zAQcm7ZxG/hkBW7baeqgtU2jLPOvtg2H8vyuvuJaYayZsNWN2B97gFqFfTaMGWx51HfPjaCglMxTwyYhJBNKDRU/61mSsBFlSzMvwm4NmGqAKKHh4UkhCx7R+0ks= Received: by 10.38.79.70 with SMTP id c70mr492435rnb; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.15.52 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:07:29 +0200 From: Reply-To: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] acme - win In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: tried that as well, same thing happens. i forgot to be more specific, though you probably noticed that, if you run win and Del (or Delete) it after moving acme it leaves the original content on the background as well. it happens running emu on plan9 and windows 2000. On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:31:16 -0400, Caerwyn B Jones wrote: > > > > how can I stop win, in order to be able to minimize acme to the > > toolbar(?) without leaving acme's original window content on the > > background? > > Close win with the Delete command. > I don't think this problem has anything to do with win. > It happens to me just from moving the acme window around > too much. > > -Caerwyn > > From rog Tue Oct 26 19:31:30 GMT 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] alphabet-grid Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:31:30 0000 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi, sorry for the delayed reply - i've been away installing inferno grid software... > What could I use as a default set of decls for the > /appl/alphabet/rexecsrv.sh command? you declare whatever you'd like a remote party to be able to execute. the idea is that you can restrict this to provide a secure execution environment; it's a sandbox, in effect. unfortunately one of the crucial pieces of documentation for this i appear not to have finished. namely the "abc" module, which allows you to do alphabet declarations within alphabet itself. i'll try and give a brief explanation here. load the abc typeset: typeset /abc this defines one new type (/abc/abc) which represents an alphabet execution environment (actually an instance of the alphabet module), including typesets, declarations and definitions. the command: /abc/abc -> /abc/abc produces a new instance of such an environment, a blank slate, containing no declarations, definitions or typesets. modules in the /abc typeset allow the adding of new typesets, declarations and definitions to an alphabet execution environment. for instance the /abc/typeset command: /abc/typeset /abc/abc /string -> /abc/abc takes an alphabet instance and a name, and loads a new typeset by that name into that environment. the commands in the /abc typeset are all analagous to those found in sh-alphabet(1), the difference being that the sh-alphabet commands modify an alphabet instance held by the sh module, whereas the /abc typeset modules modify their argument, and return the modified instance. one addition is the command /abc/eval, which evaluates an expression in the context of an alphabet instance. this is how the rexec daemon executes a command. the declaration script given to rexecsrv is an expression that takes an alphabet instance and returns one, having added some declarations to it in the mean time. the instance that is returned is the context in which remotely executed expressions will run. for convenience, all the usual module for instance: rexecsrv.sh tcp!mymachine { | autodeclare 1 } will allow remotely executed expressions to use any module from the root typeset; for instance: -{ /echo hello | /grid/remote | /grid/rexec tcp!mymachine!1235 "{ | /filter "{wc} } | /grid/local | /print 1 } to restrict remote access to use "wc" only, one might do: rexecsrv.sh tcp!mymachine { | declare /filter | define wc "{ | /filter "{wc} } | undeclare /filter } you can also use this kind of declaration expression in other contexts. for example the sh-alphabet module implements a "declares" command which applies the declarations to its own alphabet instance. also the /abc typeset (somewhat recursively) also implements a /abc/declares command... this might take a moment to get your head around! i guess one of the more unusual aspects of alphabet is that it completely separates declaration and definition from evaluation, unlike most languages, which intertwine the two. the jury is still out on whether this is a Good Thing, although i'm tending to think it might be, for the kind of situations that alphabet is intended to deal with anyway! all the above said, the reason i pointed out /grid to you wasn't really for you to use it, but just because it was one of the simpler typesets, and therefore a good one to act as a basis for a new one. this process is now a fair bit easier, as i've written a "typeset generator" that takes a specification of the typeset as an input file, and generates the various necessary typeset source files from it. i've attached a sample (for /grid). the /grid typeset is still very much experimental - the components were thrown together more as proof-of-concept than for real use (i intend to add more in the way of component-failure resilience, but still haven't finalised details of the implementation). hence the lack of documentation (and the hard-coding of some network ports, e.g. 1235 for the rexec port! here's a little example of me using it: in one shell window: % cd /appl/alphabet % rexecsrv.sh tcp!rogero { | autodeclare 1 } % in another shell window: % load alphabet % typeset /grid % /appl/alphabet/mkendpoint.sh tcp!rogero!1111 % -{/echo hello | /grid/remote | /grid/rexec tcp!rogero!1235 "{|/filter "{wc}} | /grid/local | /print 1} 1 1 6 % cheers, rog. PS. i'll reply to your other email tomorrow - i've only just got through all the rest of my emails! From ntlworld.com!bob.hibberdine Tue Oct 26 20:32:37 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mta09-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.49]) by doppio; Tue Oct 26 20:32:37 GMT 2004 Received: from ntlworld.com ([81.103.66.199]) by mta09-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20041026202741.SVJO1100.mta09-svc.ntlworld.com@ntlworld.com> for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:27:41 +0100 Message-ID: <417EB2EE.5000202@ntlworld.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:26:22 +0100 From: Robert Hibberdine User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT; en; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030311 Beonex/0.8.2-stable X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: new to inferno Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I'm just getting started in inferno and have some very basic questions which have probably been asked lots of times before. So my first question is "is there a mailing list archive?". I've had a look around the vitanuova site and can't see one there.... As is usual I'll probably find it within 2 minutes of sending this email... TIA Bob From mail.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Tue Oct 26 21:43:27 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Tue Oct 26 21:43:27 GMT 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:37:15 -0700 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C4BBA3.F619526F" Subject: RE: [inferno-list] new to inferno Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:37:15 -0700 Message-ID: <7DD37218104E31429E79EB0BB136800E11C47B@vargas.ntdom.cupdx> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <7DD37218104E31429E79EB0BB136800E11C47B@vargas.ntdom.cupdx> Thread-Topic: [inferno-list] new to inferno Thread-Index: AcS7muQMtbyouHNmQgSKz1ULCRO9+wAB+p3C From: "Benjamin Huntsman" To: Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Oct 2004 21:37:15.0733 (UTC) FILETIME=[F62B9050:01C4BBA3] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4BBA3.F619526F Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No archive that I am aware of, but you can check older stuff on Google = groups and topica. I just keep everything in my inbox. But feel free = to ask away. The folks here are pretty helpful and don't frown upon = people for asking simple questions. This is how we learn, after all. -Ben -----Original Message----- From: Robert Hibberdine [mailto:bob.hibberdine@ntlworld.com] Sent: Tue 10/26/2004 1:26 PM To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Cc:=09 Subject: [inferno-list] new to inferno Hello, I'm just getting started in inferno and have some very basic questions = which=20 have probably been asked lots of times before. So my first question is = "is there=20 a mailing list archive?". I've had a look around the vitanuova site = and can't=20 see one there.... As is usual I'll probably find it within 2 minutes of = sending=20 this email... TIA Bob ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4BBA3.F619526F Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhAVAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAIgAAAFJFOiBbaW5mZXJuby1saXN0 XSBuZXcgdG8gaW5mZXJubwABDAEFgAMADgAAANQHCgAaAA4AJQAPAAIAQwEBIIADAA4AAADUBwoA GgAOACUADwACAEMBAQmAAQAhAAAAODI4NjRENkM3RDA3QTg0MjlDM0JGMTAzOUI3N0U2NEMAMAcB A5AGADgKAAA3AAAAAwAmAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQBvUhn2o7vEAR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAA AAAAAgFHAAEAAAA3AAAAYz1VUzthPSA7cD1Db25jb3JkaWEgUG9ydGxhO2w9VkFSR0FTLTA0MTAy NjIxMzcxNVotMjgzAAAeAEkAAQAAAB4AAABbaW5mZXJuby1saXN0XSBuZXcgdG8gaW5mZXJubwAA AEAATgAAa78OmrvEAR4AWgABAAAAEgAAAFJvYmVydCBIaWJiZXJkaW5lAAAAAgFbAAEAAABLAAAA AAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAUm9iZXJ0IEhpYmJlcmRpbmUAU01UUABib2IuaGliYmVy ZGluZUBudGx3b3JsZC5jb20AAAIBXAABAAAAIQAAAFNNVFA6Qk9CLkhJQkJFUkRJTkVATlRMV09S TEQuQ09NAAAAAB4AXQABAAAAEgAAAFJvYmVydCBIaWJiZXJkaW5lAAAAAgFeAAEAAABLAAAAAAAA AIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAUm9iZXJ0IEhpYmJlcmRpbmUAU01UUABib2IuaGliYmVyZGlu ZUBudGx3b3JsZC5jb20AAAIBXwABAAAAIQAAAFNNVFA6Qk9CLkhJQkJFUkRJTkVATlRMV09STEQu Q09NAAAAAB4AZgABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgBnAAEAAAAcAAAAYm9iLmhpYmJlcmRpbmVAbnRs d29ybGQuY29tAB4AaAABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgBpAAEAAAAcAAAAYm9iLmhpYmJlcmRpbmVA bnRsd29ybGQuY29tAB4AcAABAAAAHgAAAFtpbmZlcm5vLWxpc3RdIG5ldyB0byBpbmZlcm5vAAAA AgFxAAEAAAAbAAAAAcS7muQMtbyouHNmQgSKz1ULCRO9+wAB+p3CAB4AdAABAAAAGwAAAGluZmVy bm8tbGlzdEB2aXRhbnVvdmEuY29tAAAeABoMAQAAABIAAABCZW5qYW1pbiBIdW50c21hbgAAAB4A HQ4BAAAAHgAAAFtpbmZlcm5vLWxpc3RdIG5ldyB0byBpbmZlcm5vAAAAAgEJEAEAAABiAwAAXgMA AOIEAABMWkZ1i6As2AMACgByY3BnMTI14jIDQ3RleAVBAQMB9/8KgAKkA+QHEwKAD/MAUARWPwhV B7IRJQ5RAwECAGNo4QrAc2V0MgYABsMRJfYzBEYTtzASLBEzCO8J97Y7GB8OMDURIgxgYwBQcwsJ AWQzNhZQC6YHsG8GIArAE9BpdmUgdKsT4AVASR0QbR0QdwrAgR2Ab2YsIGJ1BUByeQhgIGMDkRPQ BZBrhR6QbASBIHN0dQEggx6QA6BHb29nbB2AWwnACGBwBCAAcGQdkG8icA3gYS4gHeFqdYkgYCBr CeBwIGUdcExyeR2gC4BnIAuAIKxteSQBBuB4InFCHvF+ZgngAyADUAngIgEdEHPrH+AeQXkicVQf sCUgBvDeawQgH7AecR5icBggAkDDJFAfsGxwZnUDICHS2mQCICclEQNgdwOgIZD5IMFwZSIgITEC EAXAJgFrI9IAkG0qUnEKUCBgaX0CIHMmgwQAJAAnMSmQIK53HYAhMArAbh7AYQGAcxKBB0BsLgqi CoQKgC1eQgnwLnou1TCSTwUQZw8LgAdABdAHkHNhZ2VrMJMudEYDYToMggfxYqMEkAVASGliM1Fk C4BdHYBbAMADECIQOgbgYpYuHVAzxkACMGx3BbDlIBAuBaBtXS50BmACMAUy1FQKUCAxMC8yojY3 8DAwNDfAOjgA6CBQTS50VDSwMuMLgCMlMASgby1sBAB0QIR2aQGQbnVvdiJgMzZRLnRDYzLUNpV1 YpZqBZA3JVs52l0gNCBvB+Al0TnVLnpIJVAXsCz5LnpJJx4gIsMxwAJAKwP/AZAAIAmAJAI51SHD E+Adcf5zA3AdgCNyHtAmAA3gK6j/LSAdUBPQPEVDsyfgM0ABoL5sRIEJ4SXyQpEXsHQEIF8eoB2Q B3MzUCqRZSJwU/MdACRBZmkUAAVAK7Yssr4iLJEdoCdiLnQigGEkME80cSPSOlIdFj8iInIn3x1x E+Ah8EvwF7BvJiEhcf8h4ibBOqcrMQ6wIcMfYSlB3y50FBAegTQhSxMuUhEQwPssoyLQdTFBQTAu QEaoSbBfIeE6sC0gOrAjwSAUQG3/C4Ae8AeRSEEUECHgI9JLdjsdkSyRZTRiUhEuelRJukEuekIz QC9/LsV9WxAAAB4ANRABAAAAPAAAADw3REQzNzIxODEwNEUzMTQyOUU3OUVCMEJCMTM2ODAwRTEx QzQ3QkB2YXJnYXMubnRkb20uY3VwZHg+AB4ARxABAAAADwAAAG1lc3NhZ2UvcmZjODIyAAALAPIQ AQAAAB8A8xABAAAAUAAAAFIARQAlADMAQQAgAFsAaQBuAGYAZQByAG4AbwAtAGwAaQBzAHQAXQAg AG4AZQB3ACAAdABvACAAaQBuAGYAZQByAG4AbwAuAEUATQBMAAAACwD2EAAAAABAAAcwy7eAzqK7 xAFAAAgwxrQb9qO7xAEDAN4/5AQAAAMA8T8JAAAAHgD4PwEAAAASAAAAQmVuamFtaW4gSHVudHNt YW4AAAACAfk/AQAAAFYAAAAAAAAA3KdAyMBCEBq0uQgAKy/hggEAAAAAAAAAL089Q09OQ09SRElB IFBPUlRMQU5EL09VPUNVUERYL0NOPVJFQ0lQSUVOVFMvQ049QkhVTlRTTUFOAAAAHgD6PwEAAAAV AAAAU3lzdGVtIEFkbWluaXN0cmF0b3IAAAAAAgH7PwEAAAAeAAAAAAAAANynQMjAQhAatLkIACsv 4YIBAAAAAAAAAC4AAAADAP0/5AQAAAMAGUAAAAAAAwAaQAAAAAADAB1AAAAAAAMAHkAAAAAAHgAw QAEAAAAKAAAAQkhVTlRTTUFOAAAAHgAxQAEAAAAKAAAAQkhVTlRTTUFOAAAAHgAyQAEAAAAcAAAA Ym9iLmhpYmJlcmRpbmVAbnRsd29ybGQuY29tAB4AM0ABAAAAHAAAAGJvYi5oaWJiZXJkaW5lQG50 bHdvcmxkLmNvbQAeADhAAQAAAAoAAABCSFVOVFNNQU4AAAAeADlAAQAAAAIAAAAuAAAACwApAAAA AAALACMAAAAAAAMABhAxdF9WAwAHEJECAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAATk9B UkNISVZFVEhBVElBTUFXQVJFT0YsQlVUWU9VQ0FOQ0hFQ0tPTERFUlNUVUZGT05HT09HTEVHUk9V UFNBTkRUT1BJQ0FJSlVTVEtFRVBFVkVSWVRISU5HSU5NWUlOQk9YQgAAAAACAX8AAQAAADwAAAA8 N0REMzcyMTgxMDRFMzE0MjlFNzlFQjBCQjEzNjgwMEUxMUM0N0JAdmFyZ2FzLm50ZG9tLmN1cGR4 PgDBmw== ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4BBA3.F619526F-- From gmail.com!fgergo Tue Oct 26 21:49:37 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.195]) by doppio; Tue Oct 26 21:49:37 GMT 2004 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 64so237540wri for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:43:26 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=nkZ86Ivtda3qX83TRUkY/gUgjjzkJXEht3NE3OFt+mBvzq3x0SmMbUCDhKKu1vxBCP4vG+9TTs/mQyGANWPqVlWuQOqjmGXtC7w14fxaSWC8OgkwCRvvtsrqD4wXgxM8A4zy7Uaqa3kfUG3cXiJS4NFMBUFIQgwYtK5yaXHF0Ck= Received: by 10.38.79.68 with SMTP id c68mr708076rnb; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:43:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.15.45 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:43:25 +0200 From: Reply-To: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] new to inferno In-Reply-To: <417EB2EE.5000202@ntlworld.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <417EB2EE.5000202@ntlworld.com> There is a faq at http://ftp.bme.hu/OS/inferno/faq.html . But currently the archive is and has been unavailable for a few month. On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:26:22 +0100, Robert Hibberdine wrote: > Hello, > > I'm just getting started in inferno and have some very basic questions which > have probably been asked lots of times before. So my first question is "is there > a mailing list archive?". I've had a look around the vitanuova site and can't > see one there.... As is usual I'll probably find it within 2 minutes of sending > this email... > > TIA > > Bob > > From terzarima.net!forsyth Tue Oct 26 23:43:36 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.142]) by doppio; Tue Oct 26 23:43:36 GMT 2004 Message-ID: <94016dc3455567a6c5e3ed93848fe4d8@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] new to inferno From: Charles Forsyth Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:25:23 +0100 In-Reply-To: <7DD37218104E31429E79EB0BB136800E11C47B@vargas.ntdom.cupdx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >No archive that I am aware of, but you can check older stuff on Google >groups and topica. I just keep everything in my inbox. But feel free >to ask away. The folks here are pretty helpful and don't frown upon >people for asking simple questions. This is how we learn, after all. once we noticed that the existing archive had gone away, we intended to do a replacement, but forgot (really need a `to do' list linked electronically to those cattle prods) but meanwhile i'd observe that even if there were one, it might well still be useful to ask the same questions periodically because the answers might be different. From comcast.net!caerwyn Wed Oct 27 01:37:53 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net ([204.127.198.39]) by doppio; Wed Oct 27 01:37:53 GMT 2004 Received: from fir (h000c41af2c71.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.7.243]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004102701314101500mt9nde>; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:31:41 +0000 Message-ID: <407d7aae8a76cae703a7668b924e6c60@yourdomain.dom> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:31:37 -0400 From: caerwyn@comcast.net To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] acme - win In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I see your point. It happens every time with win. It's as if the garbage collector isn't picking it up. If I keep creating win and deleting and moving the window I get several images hanging around. If I do it enough times it must pass a threshold where the gc clears away a few, but still leaves some behind. I can not get them all completely cleared away. From comcast.net!caerwyn Wed Oct 27 02:32:37 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.198.35]) by doppio; Wed Oct 27 02:32:37 GMT 2004 Received: from fir (h000c41af2c71.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.7.243]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004102702262501300rlbv4e>; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 02:26:25 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:26:22 -0400 From: caerwyn@comcast.net To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] alphabet-grid In-Reply-To: <48f9497a68415b5c0fd2b90f19a69834@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks! > % rexecsrv.sh tcp!rogero { | autodeclare 1 } This was the incantation I would not have guessed. > all the above said, the reason i pointed out /grid to you wasn't > really for you to use it, but just because it was one of the simpler I know, but now you've got me all curious. I read the MapReduce paper rob linked to in his slashdot interview. http://labs.google.com/papers/mapreduce.html I suppose something similar would fit well with alphabet-grid. E.g. - {walk /files |mapreduce "{mapper} "{reducer} |/create /tmp/result} I'm just glossing over what's in the paper, but maybe the concepts should be carried over to alphabet: The user provides the mapper and reducer. Mapreduce does the work of splitting the files amongst N nodes where it rexec's a map worker. The worker parses the files calls the mapper with a key, value pair. The output from all the N mapper endpoints is sent to R reducer endpoints. This is handled by a partion function, such as hash(key)mod R. The mapreduce rexec's a reduce worker, which reads in all the data from one endpoint, sorts it, and for each key calls the reduce function with the key and list of values (or /fd). What I learned from this is the usefulness of the functional model in handling distributed computation. So this got me doubly curious about alphabet. Again, thanks for your help. -Caerwyn From rog Wed Oct 27 14:21:34 BST 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] alphabet-grid Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:21:34 +0100 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > - {walk /files |mapreduce "{mapper} "{reducer} |/create /tmp/result} i've been thinking about the mapreduce stuff in this kind of context too. i was actually wondering whether it might be useful to give it its own typeset. for instance i could imagine a set of modules something like: segment [-s string] string -> splitfile wordcount -> mapper records string -> mapper adder -> reducer noreduce -> reducer hash string -> partition prefix string -> partition mapreduce [-t string] [-p partition] [-c reducer] splitfile mapper reducer -> splitfile read splitfile -> fd then the example at the end of the mapreduce paper might look like: segment -s 64MB /test/freq | mapreduce -t 1000 -p {hash 20} -c {adder} {wordcount} {adder} | read a sort example might look like: segment /test/somefile | mapreduce -t 15000 -p {prefix 4000} {lines 10} {noreduce} | read i dunno. there are lots of ways to go about it - depends on how you like your abstractions... if you do things in the right way, you should be able to chain together multiple mapreduce calculations and others without having a bottleneck anywhere. (of course it helps if you have the google FS around too!). it's an interesting thing to think about anyway. muchos qdos to google for producing such a thought-provoking paper. From gmail.com!fgergo Sun Oct 31 13:03:41 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.196]) by doppio; Sun Oct 31 13:03:41 GMT 2004 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 77so66817rnk for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 05:01:45 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=NEovp0Pm/h1pxA8Lai50CUCZja5qLAQalObap3h31UHmWbRhm1Pn9ZdM3tFUAtkGLVJyYje+RuF3AEiUeh9GzkY3vggScg+h6JWhnz+/bWEZVsYjf+9dHywe0EaB06O/SUzqYX2h6Gk9NMhBawmHTA8ZsizcW3hryJM3+sgMg+8= Received: by 10.38.66.10 with SMTP id o10mr158239rna; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 05:01:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.15.45 with HTTP; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 05:01:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:01:45 +0100 From: Reply-To: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Commercial Developer Licence question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on page http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/licence.html : "You must purchase a commercial developer licence for each copy of Inferno used for development" What does "each copy mean"? Per developer, per source code "instance", per project/product? Suppose a company wishes to develop and sell (or give away the binaries free of charge) 2 products, 3 developers are working on the same source tree stored on 1 machine. (Suppose the build creates 2 different binaries.) How much licences should the company buy? (Assuming the binaries sold or given away are tracked and appropriate amount of runtime permits purchased.) Should the company negotiate a custom price? thanks: gergo From forsyth Sun Oct 31 21:16:05 GMT 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:16:05 0000 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Commercial Developer Licence question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Should the company negotiate a custom price? if you're going to make the source of your application available on Free Software terms, you don't need a commercial licence. if you are going to keep the application source code private and therefore need a commercial licence, but you can't immediately work out which schedule of fees applies, or don't like the answer, you probably are better off agreeing something better fits your situation. (given enough such instances, it's then easier to put something that will match in future on the web site.) having said that, your situation doesn't look unusual, so possibly the description on the web site isn't enough to allow you to work it out. i'll check. From xaplos.com!macrod Mon Nov 1 00:10:30 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.68]) by doppio; Mon Nov 1 00:10:30 GMT 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20041101000829.IOTM2350.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:08:29 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: Minimal Hardware for Native Inferno Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:08:22 -0500 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcS/puYt0vQDdGCgSw64aOPHEExSLg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Message-Id: <20041101000829.IOTM2350.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Just curious what's been the "smallest" hardware someone's been able to get to run native Inferno (processor, speed, memory, etc.)? For instance can an 8-bit microcontroller like a PIC, 8051 or Atmel's AVR power Inferno or would one need to start with a more powerful processor like an ARM7? I'm aware that compilers aren't available for these types of microcontrollers, but assuming they were/are... Thanks, -Mark From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon Nov 1 08:55:28 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.142]) by doppio; Mon Nov 1 08:55:28 GMT 2004 Message-ID: <4c94750e0a9dc50de04c7f6029be8e0f@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Minimal Hardware for Native Inferno From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 08:51:59 0000 In-Reply-To: <20041101000829.IOTM2350.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit we have a compiler for the avr (za/zc/zl). with 4kbytes data it wouldn't run 5th edition unix, let alone inferno. it barely runs what we want it to run (silly peripheral design in several cases). on the other hand, you can cram a styx implementation into a small space and on such a device, and that's actually useful. it saves inventing yet another dented camera protocol, for instance. there is a project that is (slowly) looking at possible FPGA implementations of the protocol. From gmail.com!abheyshah Fri Nov 5 18:25:11 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.196]) by doppio; Fri Nov 5 18:25:11 GMT 2004 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 64so53635wri for ; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 10:23:12 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=MtMgkkIcDyxz7PD7e0qizGU1CNCvqtmwBnDUXzMNH2jCotPOg2kyizcrghF9eQdTyHHrdfAeN/Rvk41j+Xh7BAcmu5W7mM0a9fMqEppIqh9f+gwZ49O3ZR45zCMjtvKIfNAWm4nWOOHVbSjQxQBrdkOGiA8Fe4oMxyu9TtHjPjQ= Received: by 10.54.13.48 with SMTP id 48mr35243wrm; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 06:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.41.34 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 06:23:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:23:12 +0000 From: Abhey Shah Reply-To: Abhey Shah To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: multiprocessor hang Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, when I try running wm/bounce with lots of balls (30+) Inferno hangs (the balls keep going but it won't respond to mouse or keyboard ) and I get the following message printed out ; XIO: fatal IO error 0 (Success) on X server ":0.0" after 7 requests (7 known processed) with 0 events remaining. It also ocassionally does this with normal use but always does this with wm/bounce. This only happens on a dual athlon when running the SMP version of Fedora (kernel is 2.4.22-1.2115.nptlsmp ). The uniprocessor version of the kernel seems to have no problem. And I'm using the 20040905 version of inferno. Any idea of how to fix this? From gmail.com!knapjack Sat Nov 6 00:06:48 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.202]) by doppio; Sat Nov 6 00:06:48 GMT 2004 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 64so69027wri for ; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 16:04:46 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=my/MD3DVzmUQTqq1LHoxIGp+tZ2WdVHYMRBKVSKpJY2lYYi1WAY3rUCD4g47+O6up+1smZmTC9MJ2G0Qq7uVJHtYYop2/cwIyZHAJF8GrF+fGZ2MrDmfImZWS9SIhI2gaXh0kXN30hztoSwDNMzDV0u0ztRm0YiioPwdpbN4PaM= Received: by 10.54.5.71 with SMTP id 71mr21721wre; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:04:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.51.10 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:04:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <6e35c0620411051504e18b160@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:04:46 -0800 From: Jack Johnson Reply-To: Jack Johnson To: Inferno List Subject: Native on QEMU? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone tried to see if QEMU will host native Inferno? I know it currently has issues with Plan 9 (or maybe vice versa). -Jack From gmail.com!knapjack Sat Nov 6 03:49:58 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.193]) by doppio; Sat Nov 6 03:49:58 GMT 2004 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 64so74779wri for ; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 19:47:51 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=TlVKj54Cvg0NElN6HpJXnRaCIQ2GchQgtgILkXszm9DtVe8KCZIbvVrHYTH1s9cDjkVQxurMwLYF+C2w1kQ4i4s5ZuYbpz6D6x41xiNbnJ/u7uTrzwbA9hM61GA+57KSF39Sl+jbKruN7BzfsDyzOS1Me2+0RlkHEujHpldboJg= Received: by 10.54.41.27 with SMTP id o27mr76852wro; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 19:47:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.51.10 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 19:47:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <6e35c0620411051947ac113c3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 19:47:51 -0800 From: Jack Johnson Reply-To: Jack Johnson To: Inferno List Subject: Distributed storage question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there a way to replicate Windows' DFS functionality using Inferno, maybe serving files off heterogenous OSes but still having them available during a server outage? -Jack From gmail.com!fgergo Sat Nov 6 07:50:54 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.197]) by doppio; Sat Nov 6 07:50:54 GMT 2004 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i8so169966rne for ; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 23:48:52 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=WBlyoPwOnKyn2i+zHpWNTXJW0GgsY4W2GZmBjPLIYV4koQ4ekDVLm8ZzCvwIDIko5xIGa2vrEXS6IzZGEbCZsCKDJ7BGv49n1e1Zll+q09SqNoMdMdFIJ+BBk5L1whnfCPRubG1FsSf00erJpr0FEOV2vydzk5hcRZRVahJ4h/E= Received: by 10.38.209.23 with SMTP id h23mr831981rng; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 23:48:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.15.30 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:48:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 08:48:51 +0100 From: Reply-To: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Native on QEMU? In-Reply-To: <6e35c0620411051504e18b160@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <6e35c0620411051504e18b160@mail.gmail.com> Some time ago pip posted a floppy image with prebuilt native inferno. qemu boots it, but I haven't tried anything else. Does anyone have a description of how to build such images (e.g. how to set up root)? thanks: gergo On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:04:46 -0800, Jack Johnson wrote: > Has anyone tried to see if QEMU will host native Inferno? > > I know it currently has issues with Plan 9 (or maybe vice versa). > > -Jack > From bellsouth.net!blstuart Sat Nov 6 18:52:05 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf05aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.53]) by doppio; Sat Nov 6 18:52:05 GMT 2004 Received: from bellsouth.net ([65.4.255.240]) by imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with SMTP id <20041106173640.LRDC2410.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 12:36:40 -0500 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com From: blstuart@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Native on QEMU? In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 6 Nov 2004 08:48:51 +0100 . Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 11:24:15 -0600 Sender: blstuart@imf05aec.mail.bellsouth.net Message-Id: <20041106173640.LRDC2410.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> In message , fgergo@gmail.com writes: >Some time ago pip posted a floppy image with prebuilt native inferno. >qemu boots it, but I haven't tried anything else. >Does anyone have a description of how to build such images (e.g. how >to set up root)? Basically, here's the key points: - The root section of the configuration files in /os/pc (e.g. /os/pc/pc4e) defines what goes into the initial root directory. This initial root is built into the kernel image you get when you mk it. Anything else you want will need to be mounted/bound once the system is up. - To build the boot floppy, you'll need a floppy that runs the loader. One of the easiest ways to get this is to go to the Plan 9 site and go through the steps for it to build a boot floppy for you. Then go onto it and edit plan9.ini to point to your Inferno kernel file instead of the Plan 9 one. In principle, you would be able to build what you need from the Inferno source tree. However, the last time I tried to build the loader from that tree, it ended up too big and wouldn't run. I came across the suggestion to use a Plan 9 boot disk and have been lazy ever since. Brian L. Stuart From terzarima.net!forsyth Sat Nov 6 19:11:51 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.142]) by doppio; Sat Nov 6 19:11:51 GMT 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Native on QEMU? From: Charles Forsyth Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 19:10:38 0000 In-Reply-To: <20041106173640.LRDC2410.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>I tried to build the loader from that tree, it ended up >>too big and wouldn't run. I came across the suggestion i'm fairly sure that was changed months (& perhaps months) ago; it was a small change to 8l that reduced the code size From xaplos.com!macrod Sun Nov 7 03:03:58 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.65]) by doppio; Sun Nov 7 03:03:58 GMT 2004 Received: from Xaplos ([68.209.108.223]) by imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20041107030158.IKSP19872.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 22:01:58 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Mark F Rodriguez" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Minimal Hardware for Native Inferno Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 22:01:46 -0500 Organization: Xaplos, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <4c94750e0a9dc50de04c7f6029be8e0f@terzarima.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcS/9BsNdCCfK6S3TCmrEjij1OgRZAEf/F/w Message-Id: <20041107030158.IKSP19872.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Thanks for the reply and information. I'm definitely interested in running all of Inferno natively so now I'm shopping for a decent, very low-power, cheap, processor. I suspect I'll need to stay with the ARM7 family, but would [still] be interested to hear other's experience(s) with running Inferno natively on [very] low power hardware. What's the lowest power processor someone's been able to get native Inferno to usably run on? Thanks, -Mark From bellsouth.net!blstuart Sun Nov 7 05:27:17 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.66]) by doppio; Sun Nov 7 05:27:17 GMT 2004 Received: from bellsouth.net ([65.4.255.240]) by imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with SMTP id <20041107052518.LHOW2398.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 00:25:18 -0500 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com From: blstuart@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Native on QEMU? In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 6 Nov 2004 19:10:38 0000 . Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:12:47 -0600 Sender: blstuart@imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net Message-Id: <20041107052518.LHOW2398.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> In message , Charles Forsyth wr ites: >>>I tried to build the loader from that tree, it ended up >>>too big and wouldn't run. I came across the suggestion > >i'm fairly sure that was changed months (& perhaps months) ago; >it was a small change to 8l that reduced the code size It has been quite a while. I had been thinking that I should try again sometime to see if it was happier. I'll have to give it a try soon. Thanks, BLS From ntlworld.com!bob.hibberdine Sun Nov 7 15:08:32 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from mta10-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.94]) by doppio; Sun Nov 7 15:08:32 GMT 2004 Received: from ntlworld.com ([81.103.67.46]) by mta10-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20041107150501.DIAI20770.mta10-svc.ntlworld.com@ntlworld.com> for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 15:05:01 +0000 Message-ID: <418E3A0C.7000409@ntlworld.com> Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 15:06:52 +0000 From: Robert Hibberdine User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT; en; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030311 Beonex/0.8.2-stable X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Minimal Hardware for Native Inferno References: <20041107030158.IKSP19872.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@Xaplos> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Has anyone tried porting Inferno to an Axis Devboard 82 (see http://developer.axis.com/products/axis_82/index.html) ? It's reasonably cheap and has lots of I/O but no graphics. It is based around Axis's Cris architecture and it runs Linux so it's not a closed system. I'd be happy to start doing it myself if I could find some good docs on what to do :-). Regards Bob Mark F Rodriguez wrote: > Thanks for the reply and information. > > I'm definitely interested in running all of Inferno natively so now I'm > shopping for a decent, very low-power, cheap, processor. I suspect I'll need > to stay with the ARM7 family, but would [still] be interested to hear > other's experience(s) with running Inferno natively on [very] low power > hardware. > > What's the lowest power processor someone's been able to get native Inferno > to usably run on? > > Thanks, > -Mark > > > From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Mon Nov 8 11:30:01 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Mon Nov 8 11:30:01 GMT 2004 Received: from vimp1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.90]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1CR7gn-0005iJ-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:28:01 +0000 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1CR7gi-0004JR-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:27:56 +0000 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1CR7gi-0000Z5-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:27:56 +0000 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8BRo5k011156 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:27:56 GMT From: "Jon Blower" To: Subject: interloper for latest Inferno Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:27:42 -0000 Message-ID: <002701c4c585$f6400710$76a6abc0@marlow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01C4C585.F6400710" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Scanner: exiscan *1CR7gi-0004JR-00*Za7dm2Nk93A* (The University of Reading) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C4C585.F6400710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I've just tried to convert Phillip Stanley-Marbell's "Interloper" program (page 192 of "Inferno programming with Limbo") for the latest version of Styx/Inferno. This program exports the root filesystem into /n/remote and prints out all the Styx messages that are generated by accesses in /n/remote. I've attached my latest attempt, which doesn't work - the call to sys->mount() never returns. Can anyone see what I'm doing wrong? The program works (or is supposed to work) by exporting the root namespace to the input end of a pipe like this: sys->export(export_pipe[0], "/", sys->EXPASYNC) The program continuously peforms reads on the output end of that pipe (with "sys->read(export_pipe[1], buf, len buf)"), prints out the Styx messages, then forwards the messages to the input of another pipe (with "sys->write(mount_pipe[0], buf, n)"). The output end of this pipe is mounted at /n/remote with the line: sys->mount(mount_pipe[1], nil, "/n/remote", sys->MREPL, nil) It is this last line that hangs. Thanks in advance for any advice! Jon -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C4C585.F6400710 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="interloper.b" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="interloper.b" implement Interloper; include "sys.m"; include "draw.m"; sys : Sys; Interloper : module { init : fn(nil : ref Draw->Context, nil : list of string); }; msgtype := array [] of { "Tversion", "Rversion", "Tauth", "Rauth", "Tattach", "Rattach", "Terror", "Rerror", "Tflush", "Rflush", "Twalk", "Rwalk", "Topen", "Ropen", "Tcreate", "Rcreate", "Tread", "Rread", "Twrite", "Rwrite", "Tclunk", "Rclunk", "Tremove", "Rremove", "Tstat", "Rstat", "Twstat", "Rwstat" }; init(nil : ref Draw->Context, nil : list of string) { sync := chan of int; sys = load Sys Sys->PATH; sys->bind("#|", "/chan", sys->MBEFORE); export_pipe := array [2] of ref Sys->FD; mount_pipe := array [2] of ref Sys->FD; sys->pipe(export_pipe); sys->pipe(mount_pipe); spawn xfre2m(export_pipe, mount_pipe, sync); spawn xfrm2e(export_pipe, mount_pipe, sync); sys->print("Spawned\n"); <- sync; <- sync; if (sys->export(export_pipe[0], "/", sys->EXPASYNC)) { sys->print("Error - Could not export : %r\n"); exit; } else { sys->print("Exported\n"); } if (sys->mount(mount_pipe[1], nil, "/n/remote", sys->MREPL, nil) == -1) { sys->print("Interloper - mount failed"); } else { sys->print("Mounted\n"); } sys->print("Interloper ready\n"); } xfre2m(export_pipe, mount_pipe : array of ref Sys->FD, sync : chan of int) { sync <-= 1; buf := array [sys->ATOMICIO] of byte; while(1) { n := sys->read(export_pipe[1], buf, len buf); sys->write(mount_pipe[0], buf, n); sys->print("Message type [%s] length [%d] from EXPORT --> MOUNT\n", msgtype[int buf[4]], n); } } xfrm2e(export_pipe, mount_pipe : array of ref Sys->FD, sync : chan of int) { sync <-= 1; buf := array [sys->ATOMICIO] of byte; while(1) { n := sys->read(mount_pipe[0], buf, len buf); sys->write(export_pipe[1], buf, n); sys->print("Message type [%s] length [%d] from MOUNT --> EXPORT\n", msgtype[int buf[4]], n); } } ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C4C585.F6400710-- From csc.com!cjones83 Mon Nov 8 16:42:25 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Mon Nov 8 16:42:25 GMT 2004 Received: from amer-gw02.de-wil.csc.com (amer-gw02.csc.com [20.6.39.235]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id iA8GeLKV027999 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:40:25 -0500 (EST) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: Re: [inferno-list] interloper for latest Inferno To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:40:03 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW02/SRV/CSC(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 11/08/2004 11:41:10 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII % diff interloper.b interloper0.b 42c42 < if (sys->export(export_pipe[0], "/", sys->EXPASYNC)) --- > if (sys->export(export_pipe[0], "/", sys->EXPASYNC) == -1) 74c74 < msgtype[int buf[4]], n); --- > msgtype[int buf[4] - 100], n); 89c89 < msgtype[int buf[4]], n); --- > msgtype[int buf[4] - 100], n); % it didn't return because the reader/writer processes were broke from array bounds error. this is easily found from wm/task and clicking Debug on the broke processes. you must run emu in interpreter mode for this to work. it's wonderful to have all source compiled with .sbl files so any running process can be inspected via wm/task. you might also look at styxmon(8) -caerwyn From rog Mon Nov 8 17:26:32 GMT 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] interloper for latest Inferno Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:26:32 0000 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-veltmrssgggmlvrniwwtldlbpo" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-veltmrssgggmlvrniwwtldlbpo Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > you might also look at styxmon(8) while on this subject: recent versions of mount(1) allow monitoring of the styx messages on the mounted connection; it's not documented, because i added it for debugging and thought i'd remove it, but it's occasionally useful, so it might stay (modulo forsyth veto...). try, for instance: mount -S {pctl forkns; export /} / (the forkns is necessary to prevent a namespace reference loop). it's only 40 lines of code in /appl/cmd/mount.b. i seem to remember i had a little program which would remember the filename that each message was operating on, which makes for a more readable log, but i can't seem to find it. oh yes, here it is (attached). in case anyone's interested. it starts up a program and prints out all accesses that the program makes to the namespace. i wrote the original program a long time ago - i think that something like iostats(4) in plan 9 would probably be more useful. cheers, rog. --upas-veltmrssgggmlvrniwwtldlbpo Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=nsmon.b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit implement Nsmon; include "sys.m"; sys: Sys; include "draw.m"; include "sh.m"; include "arg.m"; include "filepat.m"; filepat: Filepat; include "styx.m"; styx: Styx; NOFID, Rmsg, Tmsg: import styx; Nsmon: module { init: fn(nil: ref Draw->Context, argv: list of string); }; PendingIO: adt { r: list of (int, Sys->Rread); w: list of (array of byte, int, Sys->Rwrite); }; Tag: adt { m: ref Tmsg; next: cyclic ref Tag; }; Fid: adt { fid: int; elems: list of string; # in reverse order. path: string; # for speed }; Table: adt[T] { items: array of list of (int, T); nilval: T; new: fn(nslots: int, nilval: T): ref Table[T]; add: fn(t: self ref Table, id: int, x: T): int; del: fn(t: self ref Table, id: int): int; find: fn(t: self ref Table, id: int): T; }; NTAGHASH: con 32; tags := array[NTAGHASH] of ref Tag; fids: ref Table[ref Fid]; # client sends Tmsgs and asks for Rmsgs # server sends Rmsgs and asks for Tmsgs cpend, spend: ref PendingIO; # client pending, server pending tflag := 0; pathpat := ""; fail(reason: string) { sys->fprint(sys->fildes(2), "nsmon: %s\n", reason); raise "fail:error"; } init(ctxt: ref Draw->Context, argv: list of string) { sys = load Sys Sys->PATH; styx = load Styx Styx->PATH; if(styx == nil){ sys->fprint(stderr(), "nsmon: cannot load %s: %r\n", Styx->PATH); raise "fail:bad module"; } styx->init(); filepat = load Filepat Filepat->PATH; if(filepat == nil){ sys->fprint(stderr(), "nsmon: cannot load %s: %r\n", Filepat->PATH); raise "fail:bad module"; } arg := load Arg Arg->PATH; if(arg == nil){ sys->fprint(stderr(), "nsmon: cannot load %s: %r\n", Arg->PATH); raise "fail:bad module"; } arg->init(argv); arg->setusage("nsmon [-p] [cmd [arg...]]"); while((opt := arg->opt()) != 0){ case opt { 'p' => pathpat = arg->earg(); 't' => tflag = 1; * => arg->usage(); } } # arg parsing... argv = arg->argv(); if(argv == nil) argv = "sh" :: "-i" :: nil; fids = Table[ref Fid].new(11, nil); (cpend, spend) = (ref PendingIO, ref PendingIO); sys->bind("#s", "/chan", Sys->MBEFORE); cfileio := sys->file2chan("/chan", "clientf"); sfileio := sys->file2chan("/chan", "serverf"); if (cfileio == nil || sfileio == nil) fail(sys->sprint("could not make chans: %r")); spawn export(sys->open("/chan/serverf", Sys->ORDWR)); spawn execit(sync := chan of int, ctxt, sys->open("/chan/clientf", Sys->ORDWR), argv); <-sync; loop: for (;;) alt { (nil, data, nil, wc) := <-cfileio.write => if (wc == nil) break loop; cpend.w = appendw(cpend.w, data, wc); rendezvous(cpend, spend); handletmsg(data); (nil, count, nil, rc) := <-cfileio.read => if (rc == nil) break loop; cpend.r = appendr(cpend.r, count, rc); rendezvous(spend, cpend); (nil, data, nil, wc) := <-sfileio.write => if (wc == nil) break loop; spend.w = appendw(spend.w, data, wc); rendezvous(spend, cpend); handlermsg(data); (nil, count, nil, rc) := <-sfileio.read => if (rc == nil) break loop; spend.r = appendr(spend.r, count, rc); rendezvous(cpend, spend); } } export(fd: ref Sys->FD) { sys->export(fd, "/", Sys->EXPWAIT); } rendezvous(w, r: ref PendingIO) { while(w.w != nil && r.r != nil){ ((data, n, wc), (count, rc)) := (hd w.w, hd r.r); (w.w, r.r) = (tl w.w, tl r.r); if(count < len data){ w.w = (data[count:], n, wc) :: w.w; wc = nil; data = data[0:count]; } rc <-= (data, nil); if(wc != nil) wc <-= (n, nil); } } appendr(r: list of (int, Sys->Rread), n: int, rr: Sys->Rread): list of (int, Sys->Rread) { if(r == nil) return (n, rr) :: r; return hd r :: appendr(tl r, n, rr); } appendw(w: list of (array of byte, int, Sys->Rwrite), d: array of byte, rw: Sys->Rwrite): list of (array of byte, int, Sys->Rwrite) { if(w == nil) return (d, len d, rw) :: nil; return hd w :: appendw(tl w, d, rw); } execit(sync: chan of int, ctxt: ref Draw->Context, mfd: ref sys->FD, argv: list of string) { cwd := getcwd(); sys->print("cwd is %s\n", cwd); sys->pctl(Sys->NEWNS, nil); sync <-= 1; if(sys->mount(mfd, nil, "/", Sys->MREPL, nil) == -1){ sys->fprint(stderr(), "nsmon: mount error: %r\n"); return; } if(sys->chdir(cwd) == -1){ sys->fprint(stderr(), "nsmon: cannot cd to %q: %r\n", cwd); return; } sh := load Sh Sh->PATH; if (sh == nil) { sys->fprint(stderr(), "couldn't load shell: %r\n"); return; } sh->run(ctxt, argv); return; } getcwd(): string { if ((fd := sys->open(".", Sys->OREAD)) != nil) return sys->fd2path(fd); return nil; } handletmsg(data: array of byte) { (ok, m) := Tmsg.unpack(data); if(ok == -1){ sys->print("bad t-message (%d bytes): %r", len data); return; } if(newtag(m) == nil){ sys->print("bad tag %d in %s", m.tag, m.text()); return; } path: string; if((fid := getfid(tmsgfid(m))) != nil){ path = " "+fid.path; } if(pathpat != nil){ if(path == nil || filepat->match(pathpat, fid.path) == 0) return; } sys->print("%s%s\n", m.text(), path); } handlermsg(data: array of byte) { (ok, rm) := Rmsg.unpack(data); if(ok == -1){ sys->print("bad r-message (%d bytes): %r", len data); return; } t := gettag(rm.tag, 1); if(t == nil){ sys->print("unexpected tag %d in %s", rm.tag, rm.text()); return; } tm := t.m; path: string; if((fid := getfid(tmsgfid(t.m))) != nil) path = " "+fid.path; if(tflag == 0) sys->print("%s%s\n", rm.text(), path); if(tagof(rm) == tagof(Rmsg.Error) && tagof(tm) != tagof(Tmsg.Remove) && tagof(tm) != tagof(Tmsg.Clunk) && tagof(tm) != tagof(Tmsg.Flush)) return; pick m := tm { Flush => gettag(m.oldtag, 1); Auth => newfid(m.afid); Attach => newfid(m.fid); Walk => qids: array of Sys->Qid; n := 0; pick r := rm { Walk => qids = r.qids; } if(len qids != len m.names) return; if(m.fid != m.newfid){ if((newfid := newfid(m.newfid)) == nil) return; *newfid = *fid; newfid.fid = m.newfid; fid = newfid; } for(i := 0; i < len qids; i++){ if(m.names[i] == ".."){ if(fid.elems != nil){ fid.elems = tl fid.elems; fid.path = pathcat(fid.elems); } }else{ fid.elems = m.names[i] :: fid.elems; fid.path += "/" + m.names[i]; } } Create => fid.elems = m.name :: fid.elems; fid.path += "/" + m.name; Clunk or Remove => fids.del(m.fid); Wstat => if(m.stat.name != nil){ fid.elems = m.stat.name :: tl fid.elems; fid.path = pathcat(fid.elems); } } } pathcat(elems: list of string): string { p: string; for(; elems != nil; elems = tl elems) p = "/" + hd elems + p; return p; } blankfid: Fid; newfid(fid: int): ref Fid { f := ref blankfid; f.fid = fid; if(fids.add(fid, f) == 0){ sys->print("duplicate fid %d\n", fid); return nil; } return f; } getfid(fid: int): ref Fid { if(fid == NOFID) return nil; return fids.find(fid); } newtag(m: ref Tmsg): ref Tag { # XXX what happens if the client sends a duplicate tag? t := ref Tag(m, nil); slot := t.m.tag & (NTAGHASH - 1); t.next = tags[slot]; tags[slot] = t; return t; } gettag(tag: int, destroy: int): ref Tag { slot := tag & (NTAGHASH - 1); prev: ref Tag; for(t := tags[slot]; t != nil; t = t.next){ if(t.m.tag == tag) break; prev = t; } if(t == nil || !destroy) return t; if(prev == nil) tags[slot] = t.next; else prev.next = t.next; return t; } Table[T].new(nslots: int, nilval: T): ref Table[T] { if(nslots == 0) nslots = 13; return ref Table[T](array[nslots] of list of (int, T), nilval); } Table[T].add(t: self ref Table[T], id: int, x: T): int { slot := id % len t.items; for(q := t.items[slot]; q != nil; q = tl q) if((hd q).t0 == id) return 0; t.items[slot] = (id, x) :: t.items[slot]; return 1; } Table[T].del(t: self ref Table[T], id: int): int { slot := id % len t.items; p: list of (int, T); r := 0; for(q := t.items[slot]; q != nil; q = tl q){ if((hd q).t0 == id){ p = joinip(p, tl q); r = 1; break; } p = hd q :: p; } t.items[slot] = p; return r; } Table[T].find(t: self ref Table[T], id: int): T { for(p := t.items[id % len t.items]; p != nil; p = tl p) if((hd p).t0 == id) return (hd p).t1; return t.nilval; } tmsgfid(t: ref Tmsg): int { fid := NOFID; pick m := t { Attach => fid = m.afid; Walk => fid = m.fid; Open => fid = m.fid; Create => fid = m.fid; Read => fid = m.fid; Write => fid = m.fid; Clunk or Stat or Remove => fid = m.fid; Wstat => fid = m.fid; } return fid; } # join x to y, leaving result in arbitrary order. joinip[T](x, y: list of (int, T)): list of (int, T) { if(len x > len y) (x, y) = (y, x); for(; x != nil; x = tl x) y = hd x :: y; return y; } stderr(): ref Sys->FD { return sys->fildes(2); } --upas-veltmrssgggmlvrniwwtldlbpo-- From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Wed Nov 10 15:39:33 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com ([62.254.149.188]) by doppio; Wed Nov 10 15:39:33 GMT 2004 Received: from cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iAAEXxBu017922 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:33:59 GMT Received: (from jon@localhost) by cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id iAAEXuZZ017919 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:33:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com: jon set sender to jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk using -f Subject: directory permissions in Inferno From: Jon Blower To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1100097235.5027.5.camel@cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:33:55 +0000 Hi, I've noticed something unexpected (to me) about directory permissions in Inferno. In Unix/Linux, one needs execute permissions on a directory to cd into it. However, Inferno seems to allow one to cd into a directory without execute permissions; however, once in that directory one cannot perform any operations. Is there a reason for this behaviour? The Unix/Linux one seems more logical to me, but perhaps that's because I'm more used to it. Boiling down to the Styx level it seems that the permissions of the last path element of a Twalk message are not checked. The Twalk will succeed, giving the client a valid fid representing the last path element. However, if any operations on that file are attempted (e.g. reading the directory contents) the permissions are checked. Do I understand this correctly? Thanks, Jon -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From gmail.com!russcox Wed Nov 10 15:55:06 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.206]) by doppio; Wed Nov 10 15:55:06 GMT 2004 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i8so217673rne for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:53:02 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=FFmU5mHq2XDZnrRgYm9uufMMnO+Qbir5bBOTFxccriX4uWeYphUUeDMkY6/HzKFl/qAWjip+KPEvDnXppimasQRKKk8oNs6stt6pBswMrYEjiNSIueEATqtpf51P1uHwTmeIXZQHud60q9dmEa2mS8eSYOy5ZdHropC9UEa+LJk= Received: by 10.38.163.25 with SMTP id l25mr394315rne; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:53:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.65.22 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:53:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:53:02 -0500 From: Russ Cox Reply-To: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] directory permissions in Inferno In-Reply-To: <1100097235.5027.5.camel@cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1100097235.5027.5.camel@cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> > I've noticed something unexpected (to me) about directory permissions in > Inferno. In Unix/Linux, one needs execute permissions on a directory to > cd into it. However, Inferno seems to allow one to cd into a directory > without execute permissions; however, once in that directory one cannot > perform any operations. > > Is there a reason for this behaviour? The Unix/Linux one seems more > logical to me, but perhaps that's because I'm more used to it. > > Boiling down to the Styx level it seems that the permissions of the last > path element of a Twalk message are not checked. The Twalk will it's more precisely that you have to have x permission in a directory for a 1-step Twalk from there to succeed. the last path element may not be a directory at all. this makes sense when the last path element is a 0-permission file or directory -- you should still be able to do ls -ld /some/path and see that it exists with 0 permissions. if the walk failed, you couldn't do that. similarly, because the walk succeeds it means you can bind over mode 0 directories with usable ones. i do believe that .. should be allowed in any directory (this is not the current behavior) - if you got in, you should be allowed back out. russ From rog Wed Nov 10 16:08:59 GMT 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] directory permissions in Inferno Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:08:59 0000 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit jon: > Is there a reason for this behaviour? The Unix/Linux one seems more > logical to me, but perhaps that's because I'm more used to it. the inferno/plan 9 model allows some quite useful behaviour, like a directory where you can create new files but not access or remove old ones (if the directory is writable but not executable). russ: > i do believe that .. should be allowed in any directory (this is not > the current behavior) - if you got in, you should be allowed back out. presumably this is a matter for the individual fileservers. an interesting point, which could perhaps be clarified in intro(5). rog. From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Wed Nov 10 16:36:09 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com ([62.254.149.188]) by doppio; Wed Nov 10 16:36:09 GMT 2004 Received: from cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iAAGYCBu018558 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:34:12 GMT Received: (from jon@localhost) by cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id iAAGYBO6018556 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:34:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com: jon set sender to jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk using -f Subject: Re: [inferno-list] directory permissions in Inferno From: Jon Blower To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: References: <1100097235.5027.5.camel@cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1100104451.5027.17.camel@cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:34:11 +0000 Hi Russ, Thanks for this, good points. Just one question: > this makes sense when the last path element is a 0-permission > file or directory -- you should still be able to do ls -ld /some/path > and see that it exists with 0 permissions. if the walk failed, you couldn't > do that. Surely that's just because of the way ls is written? If the path directory in /some/path had 0 permissions, you could get information about "path" by reading the /some directory and only displaying the information about "path". This doesn't require entering the directory at all - the ls program would never get a fid to the "path" directory. While I was writing this, I got a message from Rog: > the inferno/plan 9 model allows some quite useful behaviour, like a > directory where you can create new files but not access or remove old > ones (if the directory is writable but not executable). I see what you mean - do you have an example of the sort of situation in which this is useful? Thanks, Jon On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 15:53, Russ Cox wrote: > > I've noticed something unexpected (to me) about directory permissions in > > Inferno. In Unix/Linux, one needs execute permissions on a directory to > > cd into it. However, Inferno seems to allow one to cd into a directory > > without execute permissions; however, once in that directory one cannot > > perform any operations. > > > > Is there a reason for this behaviour? The Unix/Linux one seems more > > logical to me, but perhaps that's because I'm more used to it. > > > > Boiling down to the Styx level it seems that the permissions of the last > > path element of a Twalk message are not checked. The Twalk will > > it's more precisely that you have to have x permission in a > directory for a 1-step Twalk from there to succeed. > the last path element may not be a directory at all. > > this makes sense when the last path element is a 0-permission > file or directory -- you should still be able to do ls -ld /some/path > and see that it exists with 0 permissions. if the walk failed, you couldn't > do that. > > similarly, because the walk succeeds it means you can bind > over mode 0 directories with usable ones. > > i do believe that .. should be allowed in any directory (this is not > the current behavior) - if you got in, you should be allowed back out. > > russ -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From rog Wed Nov 10 16:49:22 GMT 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] directory permissions in Inferno Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:49:22 0000 From: rog In-Reply-To: <1100104451.5027.17.camel@cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I see what you mean - do you have an example of the sort of situation in > which this is useful? a secure "drop-box" is an example. i can set up a directory where people can give me files, but not see (or probe) the files that others have given me, or retract the gift after closing the file. if you couldn't walk to such a directory, the owner wouldn't be able to wstat it to change the permissions back if they'd got it wrong! i think what you're really getting at is that the permissions required to cd into a directory are exactly the same as those required to do anything else with it. theoretically i suppose one could have a "open as current directory" call, but it doesn't seem worth it, especially as there are some potentially useful consequences of the current way of doing things. cheers, rog. From gmail.com!russcox Wed Nov 10 17:06:02 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.197]) by doppio; Wed Nov 10 17:06:02 GMT 2004 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i8so229447rne for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:04:01 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=mHNP4bnt5nMMbvDzjHJ9K4SXzmx5sldlMrn9VXuaoWycum4/Im0LFXGMCiv2Omnfp+7gOuBDVMSj/tyMFxgx7oPZBDp8toItxDK51XIUVF/sWEyQTgTZjxbtuLPqKjoNwk+rNe7c/0zta0097V17w5DFcyzw+3kDiyOhmgTy6DQ= Received: by 10.38.79.9 with SMTP id c9mr439441rnb; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:04:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.65.22 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:04:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:04:01 -0500 From: Russ Cox Reply-To: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] directory permissions in Inferno In-Reply-To: <1100104451.5027.17.camel@cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1100097235.5027.5.camel@cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> <1100104451.5027.17.camel@cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> > > this makes sense when the last path element is a 0-permission > > file or directory -- you should still be able to do ls -ld /some/path > > and see that it exists with 0 permissions. if the walk failed, you couldn't > > do that. > > Surely that's just because of the way ls is written? If the path > directory in /some/path had 0 permissions, you could get information > about "path" by reading the /some directory and only displaying the > information about "path". This doesn't require entering the directory > at all - the ls program would never get a fid to the "path" directory. that seems a bit inefficient. the real issue here is that 9p doesn't distinguish between walking to a name in order to look at it and walking to a name in order to walk further. unix does. > While I was writing this, I got a message from Rog: > > > the inferno/plan 9 model allows some quite useful behaviour, like a > > directory where you can create new files but not access or remove old > > ones (if the directory is writable but not executable). > > I see what you mean - do you have an example of the sort of situation in > which this is useful? incoming ftp directories. russ From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Wed Nov 10 17:14:45 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com ([62.254.149.188]) by doppio; Wed Nov 10 17:14:45 GMT 2004 Received: from cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iAAHClBu018844 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:12:48 GMT Received: (from jon@localhost) by cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id iAAHCkIm018842 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:12:46 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com: jon set sender to jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk using -f Subject: Re: [inferno-list] directory permissions in Inferno From: Jon Blower To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1100106766.5027.35.camel@cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:12:46 +0000 Here's something else I just found that seems strange to me. If I set the permissions of a directory to 0705 and connect as a user that is not the file owner but *is* a member of the group, I cannot list that directory's contents. Shouldn't the fact that all users have read and execute permissions override the zero permissions for group members? Could someone please confirm whether my understanding of the following situations is correct? 1) To read a directory's contents one only needs read permissions on that directory. 2) To get a handle (fid) to a file, one only needs execute permissions on that file's *parent* directory. 3) So if one has execute permissions on a directory, one can open one of the files it contains without being able to do a directory listing (i.e. files can be "invisible"; someone can open them if they know the names of the files in advance) Thanks, Jon On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 16:08, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > jon: > > Is there a reason for this behaviour? The Unix/Linux one seems more > > logical to me, but perhaps that's because I'm more used to it. > > the inferno/plan 9 model allows some quite useful behaviour, like a > directory where you can create new files but not access or remove old > ones (if the directory is writable but not executable). > > russ: > > i do believe that .. should be allowed in any directory (this is not > > the current behavior) - if you got in, you should be allowed back out. > > presumably this is a matter for the individual fileservers. an > interesting point, which could perhaps be clarified in intro(5). > > rog. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From rog Wed Nov 10 17:24:29 GMT 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] directory permissions in Inferno Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:24:29 0000 From: rog In-Reply-To: <1100106766.5027.35.camel@cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Here's something else I just found that seems strange to me. If I set > the permissions of a directory to 0705 and connect as a user that is not > the file owner but *is* a member of the group, I cannot list that > directory's contents. Shouldn't the fact that all users have read and > execute permissions override the zero permissions for group members? what's running the underlying filestore? if you're running inferno under unix, then the unix kernel gets final say in what user can do what, so the standard styx semantics can't work properly. inferno- or plan-based based file servers should allow reading of the directory. cheers, rog. From rog Wed Nov 10 17:26:07 GMT 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] directory permissions in Inferno Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:26:07 0000 From: rog In-Reply-To: <1100106766.5027.35.camel@cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > 1) To read a directory's contents one only needs read permissions on > that directory. > 2) To get a handle (fid) to a file, one only needs execute permissions > on that file's *parent* directory. > 3) So if one has execute permissions on a directory, one can open one of > the files it contains without being able to do a directory listing (i.e. > files can be "invisible"; someone can open them if they know the names > of the files in advance) yes. From forsyth Wed Nov 10 17:46:34 GMT 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] directory permissions in Inferno From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:46:34 0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Here's something else I just found that seems strange to me. If I set > the permissions of a directory to 0705 and connect as a user that is not > the file owner but *is* a member of the group, I cannot list that > directory's contents. Shouldn't the fact that all users have read and > execute permissions override the zero permissions for group members? yes; i wish it could do that everywhere. it will do it correctly on unix but only when it is allowed to check all permissions itself. From gmail.com!russcox Wed Nov 10 17:47:49 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.202]) by doppio; Wed Nov 10 17:47:49 GMT 2004 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i8so236713rne for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=EWNuunL8luqC1EACTgdWcr2LNFVkVmHWregrVSY8H1uWvPPiQyw2bNY2BwvQHH3xISVutOfXqtoP6EzsQZFXnaPpjx0PyGYqVjrbFglhgGSH4pjHb3a/qEINZmNhTh7aSbdnPiZbjkpL1a7HVnoSxh9XlxFYF9w8aseQCcNbnYk= Received: by 10.38.163.25 with SMTP id l25mr477955rne; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.65.22 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:45:47 -0500 From: Russ Cox Reply-To: Russ Cox To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] directory permissions in Inferno In-Reply-To: <1100106766.5027.35.camel@cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1100106766.5027.35.camel@cpc4-oxfd3-5-0-cust188.oxfd.cable.ntl.com> > Could someone please confirm whether my understanding of the following > situations is correct? > > 1) To read a directory's contents one only needs read permissions on > that directory. yes. > 2) To get a handle (fid) to a file, one only needs execute permissions > on that file's *parent* directory. yes. > 3) So if one has execute permissions on a directory, one can open one of > the files it contains without being able to do a directory listing (i.e. > files can be "invisible"; someone can open them if they know the names > of the files in advance) yes, and i know people who keep their home directories this way. russ From cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mirtchov Wed Nov 10 17:54:01 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from plan9.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.220.110]) by doppio; Wed Nov 10 17:54:01 GMT 2004 Message-ID: To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] directory permissions in Inferno Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:51:59 -0700 From: andrey mirtchovski In-Reply-To: <43dc533f198fe5ab8ee51184d8ca8427@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > inferno- or plan-based based file servers should allow > reading of the directory. they do on Plan 9 and Inferno on Plan 9: plan9% cd /tmp plan9% mkdir test plan9% chmod 705 test plan9% ssh -r bootes@plan9 plan9# cd /usr/andrey/tmp/test plan9# ls plan9# ^D plan9% chmod 700 test plan9% ssh -r bootes@plan9 plan9# cd /usr/andrey/tmp/test plan9# ls ls: .: permission denied plan9# andrey From forsyth Wed Nov 10 18:05:16 GMT 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] directory permissions in Inferno From: C H Forsyth Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:05:16 0000 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's strange. i thought there was a manual page that discussed this, but apart from a brief mention, out of the way in sys-stat(2), i can't find it now. i was going to check that it explained the differences accurately. if i can't find it, i'll write it. sys-stat(2)'s comments should really go in fs(3), since that's the culprit. From village.com!wes Wed Nov 10 19:00:53 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from www.abyx.com ([209.132.69.110]) by doppio; Wed Nov 10 19:00:53 GMT 2004 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (h000423501cf1.ne.client2.attbi.com [65.96.212.55]) (authenticated) by www.abyx.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id iAAJHcY02557 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:17:38 -0500 Message-ID: <419264E2.7020200@village.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:58:42 -0500 From: Wes Kussmaul User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] directory permissions in Inferno References: <542c0fc39282b3d7f11166f5e3bff71b@vitanuova.com> In-Reply-To: <542c0fc39282b3d7f11166f5e3bff71b@vitanuova.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
someone can open them if they know the names
of the files in advance)
    

yes.
On Delphi we had online meeting places that not only had restricted access but also wouldn't show up on menus. You had to both be on the access control list and know the name of the place for the system to even acknowledge that the place existed. To some of our tenants it was very important. I can understand the thinking behind this rule.
From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Thu Nov 11 11:45:36 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Thu Nov 11 11:45:36 GMT 2004 Received: from vimp1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.90]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1CSDMU-0000ni-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:43:34 +0000 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1CSDMQ-0002gq-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:43:30 +0000 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1CSDMP-000751-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:43:29 +0000 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABBhO5k010168 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:43:29 GMT From: "Jon Blower" To: Subject: Creating a file on a Styx server Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:43:24 -0000 Message-ID: <001201c4c7e3$a6c04aa0$76a6abc0@marlow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Scanner: exiscan *1CSDMQ-0002gq-00*lMZb.UjjHtY* (The University of Reading) Hi all, Thanks to everyone who helped with my last question about directory permissions - it all makes sense to me now! I have another permissions-related question. When creating a file on a Styx server with Tcreate, one specifies the permissions of the file to create. According to the manual pages, the actual permissions of the file depend also on the permissions of the file's parent directory (for files, the actual permissions are "perm & (~8r666 | (dir.perm & 8r666))" ). Fair enough. The Tcreate message also opens the file for the client and so the client passes a "mode" parameter (OREAD, OWRITE etc) for the file. The manual says that this mode argument is *not* checked against the permissions of the newly-created file. So does this mean that if a client creates a file and specifies OWRITE in the mode field, that client can write to the file even if the file has ended up without write permissions? Or do the write permissions get checked when a Twrite message is sent? Thanks, Jon -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From forsyth Thu Nov 11 12:09:48 GMT 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Creating a file on a Styx server From: C H Forsyth Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:09:48 0000 In-Reply-To: <001201c4c7e3$a6c04aa0$76a6abc0@marlow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit permissions are checked only at open, and fd = create("file", ORDWR, 0); # or OWRITE will work (as does a similar construction in unix). >>the manual pages, the actual permissions of the file depend also on the >>permissions of the file's parent directory (for files, the actual >>permissions are "perm & (~8r666 | (dir.perm & 8r666))" ). Fair enough. at a stroke this eliminates blunt umask in favour of a more context-sensitive effect. it allows most programs simply to create files mode 8r666, letting the directory determine how private they are for instance. From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Thu Nov 11 12:35:38 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Thu Nov 11 12:35:38 GMT 2004 Received: from vimp1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.90]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1CSE8u-0001am-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:33:36 +0000 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1CSE8o-0004HP-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:33:30 +0000 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1CSE8o-0001EN-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:33:30 +0000 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABCXT5k012573 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:33:29 GMT From: "Jon Blower" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Creating a file on a Styx server Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:33:29 -0000 Message-ID: <001c01c4c7ea$a609c7b0$76a6abc0@marlow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <3ef0e1559eb63882e462f4e52d66d5dd@vitanuova.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Scanner: exiscan *1CSE8o-0004HP-00*cT3h65ddwG.* (The University of Reading) > permissions are checked only at open, and > fd = create("file", ORDWR, 0); # or OWRITE > will work (as does a similar construction in unix). Thanks Charles - so does this mean that the creator of the file can write to the file even though the permissions disallow it? And then, if the creator clunks the file, the creator can't open the file for writing again (i.e. it's a write-once file)? Jon -----Original Message----- From: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com [mailto:inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com]On Behalf Of C H Forsyth Sent: 11 November 2004 12:10 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Creating a file on a Styx server permissions are checked only at open, and fd = create("file", ORDWR, 0); # or OWRITE will work (as does a similar construction in unix). >>the manual pages, the actual permissions of the file depend also on the >>permissions of the file's parent directory (for files, the actual >>permissions are "perm & (~8r666 | (dir.perm & 8r666))" ). Fair enough. at a stroke this eliminates blunt umask in favour of a more context-sensitive effect. it allows most programs simply to create files mode 8r666, letting the directory determine how private they are for instance. From rog Thu Nov 11 13:54:24 GMT 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Creating a file on a Styx server Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:54:24 0000 From: rog In-Reply-To: <001c01c4c7ea$a609c7b0$76a6abc0@marlow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Thanks Charles - so does this mean that the creator of the file can write to > the file even though the permissions disallow it? And then, if the creator > clunks the file, the creator can't open the file for writing again (i.e. > it's a write-once file)? yes. as charles says, you can do exactly the same under unix too. From forsyth Thu Nov 11 14:03:13 GMT 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Creating a file on a Styx server From: C H Forsyth Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:03:13 0000 In-Reply-To: <001c01c4c7ea$a609c7b0$76a6abc0@marlow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Thanks Charles - so does this mean that the creator of the file can write to >>the file even though the permissions disallow it? And then, if the creator >>clunks the file, the creator can't open the file for writing again (i.e. >>it's a write-once file)? yes. it's really a function of how Tcreate works: it creates the file with the given permissions and returns with the fid for the newly-created file marked as open with the given mode. it doesn't create-and-then-Topen. since the requesting process must be the one that created the file, and thus owns any potential content, that seems reasonable. perhaps it's just as well, because if the directory permissions are 8r222, the resulting file permissions might not allow a subsequent OREAD to succeed for a file mode 8r666. also note that sys->create uses a mixture of Topen and Tcreate, unless OEXCL is given. unix creat() was vaguely similar, except that it returned a write-only file descriptor, which limited the usefulness of creating files mode 0. the 3 argument open with O_CREAT was partly to address that (as i recall). some others more simply changed creat() to return a read/write descriptor, but that wasn't generally adopted. in inferno, of course, if DMDIR is set in the perm, a directory is created and the open-mode must be OREAD. (subsequent Twrite will apply the usual check for the fid open with OWRITE or ORDWR and reject the Twrite on a directory.) From gmail.com!wildwabbit Fri Nov 12 08:04:46 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.201]) by doppio; Fri Nov 12 08:04:46 GMT 2004 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id a41so463328rng for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:02:43 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=b7NHx2jiEFrpjA3wMFa5zcQuzkU7pNRAT9Fi5+aUQpVWZIPUAs6TMiuVRndaG5gWz6t3ON2ZZEzm/OwUE33vVzQKXDKN2maJqfkZqhtOgqcBdqlERg51HGroVgHBVMFqVeHvEj6qjBSwtQRSdRv4GcBOS8MIfsbIQefSmji2IHA= Received: by 10.38.92.37 with SMTP id p37mr852938rnb; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:02:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.162.69 with HTTP; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:02:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7bb86eb00411120002397f8211@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:02:43 +0900 From: Chris Barrera Reply-To: Chris Barrera To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Inferno MIPS startup ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are many example startups/bootloaders for ARM and PPC for building native Inferno. Are there any available or done more MIPS ? I am looking at doing a native MIPS implementation and was hoping to save a little time if it was already done. Thanks! From ns.0xfe.org!vthacker Sun Nov 14 10:43:43 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from ns.0xfe.org ([211.8.214.187]) by doppio; Sun Nov 14 10:43:43 GMT 2004 Received: from vthacker by ns.0xfe.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CTHsR-0003ud-U0 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:44:59 +0900 Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:44:59 +0900 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Inferno to Plan 9 auth server connection Message-ID: <20041114104459.GA15023@ns.0xfe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040722i From: Vester Thacker I have Inferno hosted on a Windows machine. I am interested in using this machine as a terminal to access a remote Plan 9 auth/cpu/file server. What steps are necessary to make this work? Thanks in advance. -vester From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Mon Nov 15 11:34:20 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Mon Nov 15 11:34:20 GMT 2004 Received: from vimp2.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.91]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1CTf5l-0005ur-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:32:17 +0000 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp2.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1CTf5g-00070D-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:32:12 +0000 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1CTf5f-0003J3-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:32:11 +0000 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFBW35k001588 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:32:07 GMT From: "Jon Blower" To: Subject: Changing the length of a file Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:32:01 -0000 Message-ID: <003501c4cb06$b978a3b0$76a6abc0@marlow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Scanner: exiscan *1CTf5g-00070D-00*GES612RGKYw* (The University of Reading) Hi everyone, Me again! In Styx, it's possible to change the length of a file with a Twstat message. Often this will be used to truncate a file, but what happens if the client requests that a file be made longer? What happens to the file - does it get padded with zero bytes? Jon -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon Nov 15 13:22:35 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.142]) by doppio; Mon Nov 15 13:22:35 GMT 2004 Message-ID: <115265444b6aa005851dd33859662310@terzarima.net> From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:19:48 0000 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Changing the length of a file In-Reply-To: <003501c4cb06$b978a3b0$76a6abc0@marlow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-letlsstrgxrcysezycdxsxmiqn" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-letlsstrgxrcysezycdxsxmiqn Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes. note that ``servers may decide to reject length changes for [reasons other than attempting to change directory length]''. --upas-letlsstrgxrcysezycdxsxmiqn Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([213.146.155.10]) by lavoro; Mon Nov 15 11:40:55 GMT 2004 Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Mon Nov 15 11:34:20 GMT 2004 Received: from vimp2.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.91]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1CTf5l-0005ur-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:32:17 +0000 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp2.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1CTf5g-00070D-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:32:12 +0000 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1CTf5f-0003J3-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:32:11 +0000 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFBW35k001588 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:32:07 GMT From: "Jon Blower" To: Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:32:01 -0000 Message-ID: <003501c4cb06$b978a3b0$76a6abc0@marlow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Scanner: exiscan *1CTf5g-00070D-00*GES612RGKYw* (The University of Reading) Subject: [inferno-list] Changing the length of a file Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, Me again! In Styx, it's possible to change the length of a file with a Twstat message. Often this will be used to truncate a file, but what happens if the client requests that a file be made longer? What happens to the file - does it get padded with zero bytes? Jon -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Jon Blower Tel: +44 118 378 5213 (direct line) Technical Director Tel: +44 118 378 8741 (ESSC) Reading e-Science Centre Fax: +44 118 378 6413 ESSC Email: jdb@mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk University of Reading 3 Earley Gate Reading RG6 6AL, UK -------------------------------------------------------------- --upas-letlsstrgxrcysezycdxsxmiqn-- From mail.nerc-essc.ac.uk!jdb Mon Nov 15 13:55:50 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Mon Nov 15 13:55:50 GMT 2004 Received: from vimp2.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.91]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1CThIg-0007mq-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:53:46 +0000 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp2.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1CThIb-0002HA-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:53:41 +0000 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1CThIb-000056-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:53:41 +0000 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFDrf5k006375 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:53:41 GMT From: "Jon Blower" To: Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Changing the length of a file Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:53:39 -0000 Message-ID: <004201c4cb1a$82d51f50$76a6abc0@marlow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <115265444b6aa005851dd33859662310@terzarima.net> X-Scanner: exiscan *1CThIb-0002HA-00*5syGo6P1skI* (The University of Reading) Thanks - and related to an earlier question, if the file permissions are changed with a Twstat message, does the server do the same as with a Tcreate message (i.e. does the server take into account the parent directory's permissions when setting the new permissions)? Jon -----Original Message----- From: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com [mailto:inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com]On Behalf Of Charles Forsyth Sent: 15 November 2004 13:20 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Changing the length of a file yes. note that ``servers may decide to reject length changes for [reasons other than attempting to change directory length]''. From forsyth Mon Nov 15 14:02:25 GMT 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Changing the length of a file From: C H Forsyth Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:02:25 0000 In-Reply-To: <004201c4cb1a$82d51f50$76a6abc0@marlow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-jayepenxjiuqqeagzguahcqnrd" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-jayepenxjiuqqeagzguahcqnrd Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no, otherwise it would be impossible to make available a general-access file/directory in an otherwise private directory --upas-jayepenxjiuqqeagzguahcqnrd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from vimg3.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.1.80]) by doppio; Mon Nov 15 13:55:50 GMT 2004 Received: from vimp2.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.91]) by vimg3.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: gateway) with esmtp id 1CThIg-0007mq-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:53:46 +0000 Received: from vimh1.rdg.ac.uk ([134.225.16.83]) by vimp2.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: virusscanner) with esmtp id 1CThIb-0002HA-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:53:41 +0000 Received: from mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk ([192.171.166.1]) by vimh1.rdg.ac.uk (Exim: host) with esmtp id 1CThIb-000056-00 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:53:41 +0000 Received: from marlow (marlow [192.171.166.118]) by mercury.nerc-essc.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFDrf5k006375 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:53:41 GMT From: "Jon Blower" To: Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:53:39 -0000 Message-ID: <004201c4cb1a$82d51f50$76a6abc0@marlow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <115265444b6aa005851dd33859662310@terzarima.net> X-Scanner: exiscan *1CThIb-0002HA-00*5syGo6P1skI* (The University of Reading) Subject: RE: [inferno-list] Changing the length of a file Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk Thanks - and related to an earlier question, if the file permissions are changed with a Twstat message, does the server do the same as with a Tcreate message (i.e. does the server take into account the parent directory's permissions when setting the new permissions)? Jon -----Original Message----- From: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com [mailto:inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com]On Behalf Of Charles Forsyth Sent: 15 November 2004 13:20 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Changing the length of a file yes. note that ``servers may decide to reject length changes for [reasons other than attempting to change directory length]''. --upas-jayepenxjiuqqeagzguahcqnrd-- From rog Tue Nov 16 02:39:06 GMT 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno to Plan 9 auth server connection Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 02:39:06 0000 From: rog In-Reply-To: <20041114104459.GA15023@ns.0xfe.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have Inferno hosted on a Windows machine. I am interested > in using this machine as a terminal to access a remote Plan 9 > auth/cpu/file server. What steps are necessary to make this > work? this is something i've wanted to do too. if you're running inferno under plan 9, it can use plan 9's factotum, but at the moment, i don't think that there's anything in inferno that understands the plan 9 authentication protocols. that said, charles has been doing interesting new stuff in the inferno authentication arena, so he might easily gainsay me. cheers, rog. From gmail.com!vester.thacker Tue Nov 16 07:31:27 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.198]) by doppio; Tue Nov 16 07:31:27 GMT 2004 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i8so800953rne for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:29:22 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=tY1WSWDBTiUwyttKM84llcCOJ4uboovVB121Kr+3HsU/vX8UnABF6gHxyUoKZpqZbgT0CJpdx5BzZyHTHXWVYMHQ7GhsC27AdvYP+j5p2MIY7WzAVXpMk6aaaxGFpJUtAzJcvKHpHuZoRBfrOr6uH+NuqSblicJIJHZ/OMxR+gs= Received: by 10.38.14.69 with SMTP id 69mr119022rnn; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:29:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.79.49 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:29:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32a656c2041115232913d92d67@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:29:22 +0900 From: Vester Thacker Reply-To: Vester Thacker To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno to Plan 9 auth server connection In-Reply-To: <9d3e869f8842e16599db1b2290ce69da@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20041114104459.GA15023@ns.0xfe.org> <9d3e869f8842e16599db1b2290ce69da@vitanuova.com> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 02:39:06 0000, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > if you're running inferno under plan 9, it can use plan 9's factotum, > but at the moment, i don't think that there's anything in inferno that > understands the plan 9 authentication protocols. Interesting. I was under the assumption that 9p2000 was compatible with Styx. Apparently I need to get a better handle on the basics. Thanks for your reply. -vester From rog Tue Nov 16 13:20:21 GMT 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno to Plan 9 auth server connection Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:20:20 0000 From: rog In-Reply-To: <32a656c2041115232913d92d67@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Interesting. I was under the assumption that 9p2000 was compatible > with Styx. it kind-of is, as long as you don't need to do authentication. inferno uses peer-to-peer, end-to-end authentication, whereas plan 9 uses (less secure) in-band authentication with an auth server, in general (the cpu service is an exception). From forsyth Tue Nov 16 16:13:56 GMT 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno to Plan 9 auth server connection From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:13:56 0000 In-Reply-To: <32a656c2041115232913d92d67@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-xkdwzqxfjzlrwhifdfkuvybytt" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-xkdwzqxfjzlrwhifdfkuvybytt Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the differences lie outside the file service protocol proper, which is the same. here are the main points from memory. Plan 9 uses shared-secret authentication with an online authentication server (similar to Kerberos but much simpler). Plan 9 authenticates the connection itself only for cpu servers, using an undocumented protocol to select authentication scheme, then if "p9" is chosen (as opposed to "netkey"), it uses a variant of p9any (documented in the security paper) to authenticate the connection, and engage a line encryption/digesting method, which both sides must know (the name isn't exchanged), or the connection becomes confused. It's a variant of p9any because it doesn't use the `v.' version tag. Plan 9 authenticates import and export (of file trees from a cpu server) using p9any (again without the `v.' tag) followed by a peculiar, undocumented and somewhat broken protocol to select line encryption and other parameters. (It's somewhat broken because it assumes the data will all arrive together for the first read.) File server connections to the old Plan 9 file server (ken's) are neither authenticated nor encrypted. File server connections to fossil (and others) running on a cpu server are also neither authenticated nor encrypted (although you could run another application first on both ends of the connection). Once a connection has been made to a Plan 9 file server, it will authenticate each attach using the "p9any" protocol, with `v.2', over authentication files obtained using Tauth/Rauth. Thus despite the lack of connection authentication, each mount is authenticated. (Note that if the connection is multiplexed the server trusts the multiplexing client not to cheat the users it is multiplexing.) Inferno uses a flat public key infrastructure, and the signer that signs certificates need not be online when they are used. There are two signer implementations in the distribution: one uses a shared secret (logind); another uses an off line check to authorise issue of a certificate (signer/verify/countersigner). Another more flexible scheme is in the works, using SPKI. Inferno by default authenticates connections using the algorithm given in auth(6) with message format from keyring-getmsg(2) but with several undocumented exchanges before and after that (eg, version number, and "OK"). That is followed by another undocumented part where the client sends an encryption/digesting method name and both parties engage that (or hang up). I have a short .pdf file that describes it in more detail. It is subject to change. Inferno does not currently use Tauth/Rauth, partly because the connections normally aren't multiplexed, and running the authentication again wouldn't add anything. Quite apart from multiplexing, I have now got a use for them, and the code to support it should appear in the next month. Some time ago, I also started providing hooks and sometimes working components to allow Inferno to connect to Plan 9 and authenticate with it. Quite a few bits are done: mount -9, factotum(2) and import(4) make use of them for instance. I'll see how much effort it would be to bash together a simple p9any agent for use on Windows (and elsewhere). The code for Plan 9 tickets is already in a Limbo module. --upas-xkdwzqxfjzlrwhifdfkuvybytt Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.198]) by doppio; Tue Nov 16 07:31:27 GMT 2004 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i8so800953rne for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:29:22 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=tY1WSWDBTiUwyttKM84llcCOJ4uboovVB121Kr+3HsU/vX8UnABF6gHxyUoKZpqZbgT0CJpdx5BzZyHTHXWVYMHQ7GhsC27AdvYP+j5p2MIY7WzAVXpMk6aaaxGFpJUtAzJcvKHpHuZoRBfrOr6uH+NuqSblicJIJHZ/OMxR+gs= Received: by 10.38.14.69 with SMTP id 69mr119022rnn; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:29:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.79.49 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:29:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32a656c2041115232913d92d67@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:29:22 +0900 From: Vester Thacker To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <9d3e869f8842e16599db1b2290ce69da@vitanuova.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20041114104459.GA15023@ns.0xfe.org> <9d3e869f8842e16599db1b2290ce69da@vitanuova.com> Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno to Plan 9 auth server connection Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 02:39:06 0000, rog@vitanuova.com wrote: > if you're running inferno under plan 9, it can use plan 9's factotum, > but at the moment, i don't think that there's anything in inferno that > understands the plan 9 authentication protocols. Interesting. I was under the assumption that 9p2000 was compatible with Styx. Apparently I need to get a better handle on the basics. Thanks for your reply. -vester --upas-xkdwzqxfjzlrwhifdfkuvybytt-- From gmail.com!knapjack Wed Nov 17 22:46:19 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.205]) by doppio; Wed Nov 17 22:46:19 GMT 2004 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 71so435005wra for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:44:14 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=psa+d7VG/nIIaQ8s1JoIjZRAdtbsyI3n1w8zvFBfxlJN1U99gu2/nf5beQx1ydMDTAwqnbCwKYwoTqte1ZYkgHJbjYdG17OxGjP+arobT59jtZTrNdNTRbqqGEN4zquqtQ7GBAIa6WgVbcMEbxxpRskjruph0vgT2KaHdVHpJqc= Received: by 10.54.4.26 with SMTP id 26mr238228wrd; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:44:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.51.10 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:44:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <6e35c06204111710443c322dfe@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:44:14 -0800 From: Jack Johnson Reply-To: Jack Johnson To: Inferno List Subject: SNMP & NMS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (sorry if this is a repeat question) I've come across a paper "Implementation of SNMP Agent by Inferno" at: http://casl.csa.iisc.ernet.in/OperatingSystems/Inferno/snmp/snmp.html and I'm also an OpenNMS user: http://wiki.opennms.org/tiki-index.php?page=OpenNMS+Home Though I like OpenNMS a lot, it seems a little complex for what it does, and it seems like a similar (maybe distributed) system could be done with Inferno. Has anyone else done any work with either service polling or SNMP on Inferno, or know of any publicly available code I could peek at? Thanks, -Jack From csc.com!cjones83 Mon Nov 22 17:14:10 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta01.csc.com ([20.137.2.247]) by doppio; Mon Nov 22 17:14:10 GMT 2004 Received: from amer-gw05.csc.com (amer-gw05.csc.com [20.6.39.241]) by amer-mta01.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id iAMGkRvn018451 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:11:59 -0500 (EST) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: sort To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:51:14 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW05/SRV/CSC(Release 6.5.2|June 01, 2004) at 11/22/2004 12:12:37 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII does anyone have a port of plan9 'sort' to inferno? i run out of memory using the current version. -caerwyn From mail.cu-portland.edu!BHuntsman Wed Nov 24 04:46:55 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from drax.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.179]) by doppio; Wed Nov 24 04:46:55 GMT 2004 Received: from vargas.ntdom.cupdx ([65.170.220.154]) by drax.ntdom.cupdx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:44:46 -0800 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: archmp Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:44:46 -0800 Message-ID: <7DD37218104E31429E79EB0BB136800E11C4E5@vargas.ntdom.cupdx> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: archmp Thread-Index: AcTR4FKUPc2TSH9hRGSTIB6nFW9GrQ== From: "Benjamin Huntsman" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: Return-Path: BHuntsman@mail.cu-portland.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2004 04:44:46.0582 (UTC) FILETIME=[52D58160:01C4D1E0] Li4uIHdhcyBsb29raW5nIHRocm91Z2ggdGhlIGZpbGVzIGFyY2htcC5jLCBhcGljLmMsIGFuZCBt cC5jLigzODYgb25seSkgIEludGVyZXN0aW5nbHksIHRoZXkgYXBwZWFyIGluIEluZmVybm8gdG9v LiAgTmF0aXZlIEluZmVybm8gY2FuIHJ1biB3aXRoIFNNUD8NCiANCklzIHRoZXJlIGFueSBkb2N1 bWVudGF0aW9uIG9uIGhvdyB0aGUgbXAgc3lzdGVtIHdvcmtzPyAgKEkga25vdyBJIGNvdWxkIGFs d2F5cyBqdXN0IHJlYWQgdGhlIHNvdXJjZXMsIGJ1dCBJJ2QgYXBwcmVjaWF0ZSBzb21lb25lIHBv aW50aW5nIG1lIGluIHRoZSByaWdodCBkaXJlY3Rpb24uLi4pICBIb3cgZG8gd2UgZ2V0IGFsbCB0 aGUgQ1BVJ3MgaW5pdGlhbGl6ZWQsIGFuZCBjYW4gd2Ugc3RhcnQvc3RvcCB0aGVtIGluZGl2aWR1 YWxseSBhZnRlciBib290PyAgQWxzbywgYXJlIHRoZXJlIE1QIHNvdXJjZXMgZm9yIG90aGVyIGNw dSB0eXBlcz8NCiANClRoYW5rcyBhbGwhDQogDQotQmVuDQogDQo= From gmail.com!russcox Wed Nov 24 04:57:20 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.202]) by doppio; Wed Nov 24 04:57:20 GMT 2004 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i8so54504rne for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:55:11 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=t9dqtKFcUF4Utp6oU/yq6QTWSmWbyimLhG6OruRL6UAtfVQ627p4VZKM6vkYC7KTq6Psf4TViE1nTGM8bV3mTxpP/OVWIDA7+KOG+zBJ8qFBQG027pWbIXHnRUdi00s9cjfop6DRngnyz2wywSVBKQ2htVE/qLfN9vqpV/frrkw= Received: by 10.38.150.72 with SMTP id x72mr178519rnd; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:55:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.65.44 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:55:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:55:11 -0500 From: Russ Cox Reply-To: Russ Cox To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] archmp Cc: inferno-list@vitanuova.com In-Reply-To: <7DD37218104E31429E79EB0BB136800E11C4E5@vargas.ntdom.cupdx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <7DD37218104E31429E79EB0BB136800E11C4E5@vargas.ntdom.cupdx> > Is there any documentation on how the mp system works? > (I know I could always just read the sources, but I'd appreciate someone > pointing me in the right direction...) How do we get all the CPU's initialized, > and can we start/stop them individually after boot? The source is the only documentation I know. The CPUs are not started/stopped individually after boot. You've already found the right files to read. Start with mpinit() in pc/mp.c, called as arch->intrinit() in pc/main.c. > Also, are there MP sources for other cpu types? Plan 9 has run on other multiprocessors. The most recent is the SGI Challenge, but agreements with SGI preclude Bell Labs from releasing those sources under the current license. The PC kernel is the only multiprocessor architecture supported in the released sources. Russ From rog Wed Nov 24 17:33:33 GMT 2004 remote from rogero To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] sort Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:33:33 0000 From: rog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > does anyone have a port of plan9 'sort' to inferno? i haven't seen one. i once looked at doing the port but a) it's quite large (>1700 lines) and b) it uses pointer arithmetic extensively, e.g. void rsort4(Key ***a, ulong n, int b) { Key ***ea, ***t, ***u, **t1, **u1, *k; Key ***part[257]; not the easiest of idioms to translate into limbo... actually, rather than going the whole hog, it might just be best to just to have sort.b do an external merge sort when the size gets too big, which shouldn't be too hard. From forsyth Fri Dec 3 10:20:21 GMT 2004 remote from doppio From: C H Forsyth Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 10:20:21 0000 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno to Plan 9 auth server connection In-Reply-To: <20041114104459.GA15023@ns.0xfe.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-opipijzmvvvptdgduyjpjtggfh" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-opipijzmvvvptdgduyjpjtggfh Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit last evening i implemented p9any/p9sk1 so that Inferno on non-Plan9 machines can authenticate with a Plan 9 file service. i've still some tidying up to do, but i'll bundle it up shortly. eventually it will be in Inferno's analogue to factotum, but until that appears, what i've just done might do. --upas-opipijzmvvvptdgduyjpjtggfh Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ns.0xfe.org ([211.8.214.187]) by doppio; Sun Nov 14 10:43:43 GMT 2004 Received: from vthacker by ns.0xfe.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CTHsR-0003ud-U0 for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:44:59 +0900 Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:44:59 +0900 To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-ID: <20041114104459.GA15023@ns.0xfe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040722i From: Vester Thacker Subject: [inferno-list] Inferno to Plan 9 auth server connection Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk I have Inferno hosted on a Windows machine. I am interested in using this machine as a terminal to access a remote Plan 9 auth/cpu/file server. What steps are necessary to make this work? Thanks in advance. -vester --upas-opipijzmvvvptdgduyjpjtggfh-- From csc.com!cjones83 Fri Dec 3 14:21:52 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com ([20.137.2.248]) by doppio; Fri Dec 3 14:21:52 GMT 2004 Received: from amer-gw05.csc.com (amer-gw05.csc.com [20.6.39.241]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id iB3EJbJB019585 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:19:38 -0500 (EST) From: Caerwyn B Jones Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno to Plan 9 auth server connection To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: Sender: Caerwyn B Jones Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:19:18 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on AMER-GW05/SRV/CSC(Release 6.5.3|September 14, 2004) at 12/03/2004 09:20:15 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > non-Plan9 machines can authenticate with a Plan 9 file service. yeay! excellent! From gmail.com!vester.thacker Sat Dec 4 01:36:42 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from rproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.170.194]) by doppio; Sat Dec 4 01:36:42 GMT 2004 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i8so228529rne for ; Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:34:28 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=ggap8mXufp+eazAtum1x6pp/yYC0RvbuvxlYXMWS8ttY8ZDzLNiyXtRVd9iIiYCuaHO3b9QAE4zZxcQG5klKSlbrkqZ5+D5yZIR4rnYrqBnWOvHhX7L5s6sQSbPwRCttmgzTBZ7teUDs1s78nqmmvp1TYbVOtiEarsLPLu6+Xz8= Received: by 10.38.99.9 with SMTP id w9mr1777673rnb; Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:34:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.89.46 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Dec 2004 17:34:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32a656c204120317343b37b342@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 10:34:28 +0900 From: Vester Thacker Reply-To: Vester Thacker To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] Inferno to Plan 9 auth server connection In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20041114104459.GA15023@ns.0xfe.org> On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 10:20:21 0000, C H Forsyth wrote: > last evening i implemented p9any/p9sk1 so that Inferno > on non-Plan9 machines can authenticate with a Plan 9 file service. > i've still some tidying up to do, but i'll bundle it up shortly. > eventually it will be in Inferno's analogue to factotum, > but until that appears, what i've just done might do. Thank you Charles. I'm completely amazed/awestruck. And I'm one step closer to dropping drawterm. -vester From gmail.com!ericvh Sun Dec 5 21:22:49 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.195]) by doppio; Sun Dec 5 21:22:49 GMT 2004 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 58so65681wri for ; Sun, 05 Dec 2004 13:20:34 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=c5Jcxwl2evpmbqISDPJRDRMedoJk1SVeE0EMl5NePOK9q7fk5ux2AVWxV3obT4EYzLLLju3siT35zj91Qi4UZhb4jEUXu0exv3eXfAIaNUeIRDyjvOygy6kNYzLBzlrjrIObj7Or9ahfOLyUsS9kjF0dAnwKtpZJq6TCl1SK/y0= Received: by 10.54.48.16 with SMTP id v16mr1138106wrv; Sun, 05 Dec 2004 13:13:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.57.14 with HTTP; Sun, 5 Dec 2004 13:13:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 15:13:42 -0600 From: Eric Van Hensbergen Reply-To: Eric Van Hensbergen To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Fwd: Plan 9/Inferno Birds of a Feather at OSDI In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Eric Van Hensbergen Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 14:03:02 -0600 Subject: Plan 9/Inferno Birds of a Feather at OSDI To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Cc: plan9dev@googlegroups.com, v9fs-users@lists.sourceforge.net Just signed up on the official board. The Plan 9 Birds of a Feather at OSDI is scheduled for 7-8pm on Monday (12/6) in the Barcelona I room (right after the IBM Research BoF). These BoFs can most likely be attended by folks not actually at the conference. If you need directions to the hotel in San Francisco, please go to the OSDI Web Site (http://www.usenix.org/osdi04). A preliminary agenda for the BoF: * Quick Overview of Plan 9 (no more than 5 minutes) * Quick overview of the current "state of the system" * Technology Transfer activities (v9fs, plan9port, etc.) * Community Discussion * Ongoing Projects Summary * Group Discussion on the community and plans for future The intent is to focus the BoF on the last topic. If folks want other things put on the agenda, please let me know. Hope to see lots of folks there. -eric From uolinc.com!aut_gbarros Mon Dec 6 14:33:04 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sandman1.uolinc.com ([200.221.4.69]) by doppio; Mon Dec 6 14:33:04 GMT 2004 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by sandman1.uolinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2641D12F for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:34:46 -0300 (BRT) Received: from sandman1.uolinc.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (sandman1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31640-05 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:34:46 -0300 (BRT) Received: from sahure.server.bl.corp.intranet (sahure.server.bl.corp.intranet [192.168.206.101]) by sandman1.uolinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A05FD15E for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:34:46 -0300 (BRT) Received: by sahure.server.bl.corp.intranet with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:29:05 -0200 Message-ID: <2814F26DA6908F41927A81C410C4991A02079BC8@siamun.server.bl.corp.intranet> From: Gabriel Cosentino de Barros To: "'inferno-list@vitanuova.com'" Subject: list archive Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:29:00 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C4DB9F.ED4595A0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4DB9F.ED4595A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello, i must be blind or something, but i haven't found a link to the list archives... can someone point me to it? Thanks, and sorry in advance if i'm just being plain dumb besides blind :) Gabriel ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4DB9F.ED4595A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" list archive

Hello, i must be blind or something, but i haven't found a link to the list archives... can someone point me to it?

Thanks, and sorry in advance if i'm just being plain dumb besides blind :)
Gabriel

------_=_NextPart_001_01C4DB9F.ED4595A0-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon Dec 6 14:44:08 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.142]) by doppio; Mon Dec 6 14:44:08 GMT 2004 Message-ID: <8fbbf0f2ec8da84ff382f0f654af142a@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] list archive From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 14:34:33 0000 In-Reply-To: <2814F26DA6908F41927A81C410C4991A02079BC8@siamun.server.bl.corp.intranet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-gkgbgmkqgvspexrtwkmcclgzih" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-gkgbgmkqgvspexrtwkmcclgzih Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the person that previously did it seems to have vanished again. i was going to do it myself, but haven't quite sorted out the free (but you'll spend your time) software that does it. --upas-gkgbgmkqgvspexrtwkmcclgzih Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([213.146.155.10]) by lavoro; Mon Dec 6 14:36:06 GMT 2004 Received: from sandman1.uolinc.com ([200.221.4.69]) by doppio; Mon Dec 6 14:33:04 GMT 2004 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by sandman1.uolinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2641D12F for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:34:46 -0300 (BRT) Received: from sandman1.uolinc.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (sandman1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31640-05 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:34:46 -0300 (BRT) Received: from sahure.server.bl.corp.intranet (sahure.server.bl.corp.intranet [192.168.206.101]) by sandman1.uolinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A05FD15E for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:34:46 -0300 (BRT) Received: by sahure.server.bl.corp.intranet with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:29:05 -0200 Message-ID: <2814F26DA6908F41927A81C410C4991A02079BC8@siamun.server.bl.corp.intranet> From: Gabriel Cosentino de Barros To: "'inferno-list@vitanuova.com'" Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:29:00 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C4DB9F.ED4595A0" Subject: [inferno-list] list archive Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4DB9F.ED4595A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello, i must be blind or something, but i haven't found a link to the list archives... can someone point me to it? Thanks, and sorry in advance if i'm just being plain dumb besides blind :) Gabriel ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4DB9F.ED4595A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" list archive

Hello, i must be blind or something, but i haven't found a link to the list archives... can someone point me to it?

Thanks, and sorry in advance if i'm just being plain dumb besides blind :)
Gabriel

------_=_NextPart_001_01C4DB9F.ED4595A0-- --upas-gkgbgmkqgvspexrtwkmcclgzih-- From uolinc.com!aut_gbarros Mon Dec 6 14:51:36 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from sandman1.uolinc.com ([200.221.4.69]) by doppio; Mon Dec 6 14:51:36 GMT 2004 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by sandman1.uolinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F547D1B4 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:53:19 -0300 (BRT) Received: from sandman1.uolinc.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (sandman1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32476-09 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:53:19 -0300 (BRT) Received: from sahure.server.bl.corp.intranet (sahure.server.bl.corp.intranet [192.168.206.101]) by sandman1.uolinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC9ED1BD for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:53:15 -0300 (BRT) Received: by sahure.server.bl.corp.intranet with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:47:34 -0200 Message-ID: <2814F26DA6908F41927A81C410C4991A02079BCA@siamun.server.bl.corp.intranet> From: Gabriel Cosentino de Barros To: "Inferno-List (E-mail)" Subject: inferno vs plan9 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:47:28 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C4DBA2.81E57520" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4DBA2.81E57520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I came to know inferno from the plan9 pages. It seemed to me a striped down version of an early plan9 at first. But from the features list in inferno's pages, it seems just as powerfull as a full blow plan9 distro. What i'm missing? does it lack something else besides Glenda? Does it have more funcionality that i didn't noticed? Thanks, Gabriel ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4DBA2.81E57520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable inferno vs plan9

I came to know inferno from the plan9 pages. It = seemed to me a striped down version of an early plan9 at first.
But from the features list in inferno's pages, it = seems just as powerfull as a full blow plan9 distro. What i'm missing? = does it lack something else besides Glenda?

Does it have more funcionality that i didn't = noticed?

Thanks,
Gabriel

------_=_NextPart_001_01C4DBA2.81E57520-- From terzarima.net!forsyth Mon Dec 6 16:01:49 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from lavoro.terzarima.net ([80.0.45.142]) by doppio; Mon Dec 6 16:01:49 GMT 2004 Message-ID: <2717114cdd1c277bd0a5027fdd013013@terzarima.net> To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] inferno vs plan9 From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 15:52:14 0000 In-Reply-To: <2814F26DA6908F41927A81C410C4991A02079BCA@siamun.server.bl.corp.intranet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-wisjextgknuvyoorrulbmsssuj" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-wisjextgknuvyoorrulbmsssuj Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the set of software provided is in some ways less than Plan 9 (there isn't an Inferno mail system for instance); in some ways, it provides more (eg, portable virtual machine, higher-level graphics). perhaps the biggest difference is that it runs hosted as well as native. that way we can write distributed systems (eg, the grid software, including user interface) in a reasonable modular concurrent programming language, on a range of host operating systems including Plan 9 but not limited to it, with applications seeing the same interface (resources as files) everywhere. because it provides things like /net everywhere, i can export a Windows /net to Linux & conversely. --upas-wisjextgknuvyoorrulbmsssuj Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp.vitanuova.com ([213.146.155.10]) by lavoro; Mon Dec 6 15:12:39 GMT 2004 Received: from sandman1.uolinc.com ([200.221.4.69]) by doppio; Mon Dec 6 14:51:36 GMT 2004 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by sandman1.uolinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F547D1B4 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:53:19 -0300 (BRT) Received: from sandman1.uolinc.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (sandman1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32476-09 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:53:19 -0300 (BRT) Received: from sahure.server.bl.corp.intranet (sahure.server.bl.corp.intranet [192.168.206.101]) by sandman1.uolinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC9ED1BD for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:53:15 -0300 (BRT) Received: by sahure.server.bl.corp.intranet with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:47:34 -0200 Message-ID: <2814F26DA6908F41927A81C410C4991A02079BCA@siamun.server.bl.corp.intranet> From: Gabriel Cosentino de Barros To: "Inferno-List (E-mail)" Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:47:28 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C4DBA2.81E57520" Subject: [inferno-list] inferno vs plan9 Sender: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Errors-To: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com Reply-To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4DBA2.81E57520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I came to know inferno from the plan9 pages. It seemed to me a striped down version of an early plan9 at first. But from the features list in inferno's pages, it seems just as powerfull as a full blow plan9 distro. What i'm missing? does it lack something else besides Glenda? Does it have more funcionality that i didn't noticed? Thanks, Gabriel ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4DBA2.81E57520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable inferno vs plan9

I came to know inferno from the plan9 pages. It = seemed to me a striped down version of an early plan9 at first.
But from the features list in inferno's pages, it = seems just as powerfull as a full blow plan9 distro. What i'm missing? = does it lack something else besides Glenda?

Does it have more funcionality that i didn't = noticed?

Thanks,
Gabriel

------_=_NextPart_001_01C4DBA2.81E57520-- --upas-wisjextgknuvyoorrulbmsssuj-- From cs.utwente.nl!belinfan Tue Dec 7 15:05:32 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from denhaag.ewi.utwente.nl ([130.89.10.11]) by doppio; Tue Dec 7 15:05:32 GMT 2004 Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by denhaag.ewi.utwente.nl (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iB7F3FkM021380 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:03:15 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iB7F3Fn9005045 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:03:15 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id iB7F3FT03220 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:03:15 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200412071503.iB7F3FT03220@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 2.7.0 06/18/2004 with version: MH 6.8.3 #20[UCI] To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: hosted on solaris/sparc: how to access /dev/tty[ab] ? From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from EX1.ACDM.DS.SAIT.CA ([10.72.36.161]) by acdm.sait.ab.ca (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30867) with ESMTP id <01LI42AIGDR08X2IMT@acdm.sait.ab.ca> for inferno-list@vitanuova.com; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:40:00 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:41:13 -0700 From: Dylan Saunders Subject: RE: [inferno-list] hosted on solaris/sparc: how to access /dev/tty[ab] ? To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [inferno-list] hosted on solaris/sparc: how to access /dev/tty[ab] ? Thread-Index: AcTccoJeBT+7oy9gTsuE+gvoKsBKyAAB6j6A Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: On Unix systems only the root user has permission to access hardware (serial ports) via the /dev/tty? device file. If you are running Inferno emu as a non-root user that would explain the permission denied message. You could either run emu as root or change the permissions on the /dev/tty? file to give the Inferno user access to the port. In general it is not a good idea to open up device file permissions to non-root users. That of course assumes that emu actually uses the device file for access to the serial port, perhaps someone who knows the internals of emu a little better could comment. Dylan Saunders -----Original Message----- From: inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com [mailto:inferno-list-admin@vitanuova.com] On Behalf Of Axel Belinfante Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:03 AM To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: [inferno-list] hosted on solaris/sparc: how to access /dev/tty[ab] ? (maybe a faq, I saw this has been discussed before) How can I access the /dev/tty[ab] serial lines on a sparc/solaris sun blade? (running hosted, on a very very basic inferno setup, just running emu after installing - no other setup as users have been taken place) Without doing anything special, the naive 'cat '#t/eia*' gives me 'permission denied'. Any ideas? (Context: I'm trying to get the lego brick working for which I need access to a serial line) Axel. From forsyth Tue Dec 7 16:54:43 GMT 2004 remote from penso To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: RE: [inferno-list] hosted on solaris/sparc: how to access /dev/tty[ab] ? From: C H Forsyth Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:54:43 0000 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>That of course assumes that emu actually uses the device file for >>access to the serial port, perhaps someone who knows the internals of >>emu a little better could comment. it does (i don't think there is any other way). the emu #t should show the underlying permissions and owner but doesn't; it would make it easier to diagnose such things without using {os ls ...}. i'll add it to my list. From cs.utwente.nl!belinfan Tue Dec 7 21:39:10 GMT 2004 remote from doppio Received: from denhaag.ewi.utwente.nl ([130.89.10.11]) by doppio; Tue Dec 7 21:39:10 GMT 2004 Received: from zeus.cs.utwente.nl (zeus.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.10.12]) by denhaag.ewi.utwente.nl (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iB7LaqFJ009215 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 22:36:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (zamenhof.ewi.utwente.nl [130.89.13.77]) by zeus.cs.utwente.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iB7Laqn9012165 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 22:36:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (belinfan@localhost) by zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2) with SMTP id iB7Lapb05649 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 22:36:51 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200412072136.iB7Lapb05649@zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl> X-Authentication-Warning: zamenhof.cs.utwente.nl: belinfan@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: inferno-list@vitanuova.com Subject: Re: [inferno-list] hosted on solaris/sparc: how to access /dev/tty[ab] ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:54:43." <521d660651e4128cc2f500bc9871b4bd@vitanuova.com> References: <521d660651e4128cc2f500bc9871b4bd@vitanuova.com> From: Axel Belinfante X-Organisation: University of Twente, Department of Computer Science, Formal Methods and Tools Group, PO Box 217, NL-7500 AE Enschede, The Netherlands X-Phone: +31 53 4893774 X-Telefax: +31 53 4893247 X-Face: 3YGZY^_!}k]>-k'9$LK?8GXbi?vs=2v*ut,/8z,z!(QNBk_>~:~"MJ_%i`sLLqGN,DGbkT@ N\jhX/jNLTz2hO_R"*RF(%bRvk+M,iU7SvVJtC*\B6Ud<7~`MGMp7rCI6LVp=%k=HE?-UCV?[p\$R? mI\n2/!#3/wZZsa[m7d;PKWiuH6'~ Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 22:36:51 +0100 Sender: belinfan@cs.utwente.nl X-Spam-Score: -4.3 () BAYES_00,J_CHICKENPOX_31 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 > >>That of course assumes that emu actually uses the device file for > >>access to the serial port, perhaps someone who knows the internals of > >>emu a little better could comment. > > it does (i don't think there is any other way). > the emu #t should show the underlying permissions and owner but doesn't; > it would make it easier to diagnose such things without using {os ls ...}. > i'll add it to my list. (assuming that /dev/tty[ab] are the device files we are discussing here, i.e. the right device files for the two serial connectors at the back of the machine, the files that are accessed by #t) then let me just add my confusion: it seems the device files _are_ accessable: [ls == plan9port ls] ; ls -l /dev/tty[ab] --rw-rw-rw- M 0 root sys 2147483647 Dec 7 15:55 /dev/ttya --rw-rw-rw- M 0 root sys 2147483647 Apr 17 2002 /dev/ttyb ; /bin/ls -l /dev/tty[ab] lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 Apr 17 2002 /dev/ttya -> term/a lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 Apr 17 2002 /dev/ttyb -> term/b ; /bin/ls -l /dev/term/[ab] lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 43 Apr 17 2002 /dev/term/a -> ../../devices/pci@1f,0/isa@7/serial@0,3f8:a lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 43 Apr 17 2002 /dev/term/b -> ../../devices/pci@1f,0/isa@7/serial@0,2e8:b ; /bin/ls -l /devices/pci@1f,0/isa@7/serial@0,3f8:a crw-rw-rw- 1 root sys 37, 0 Dec 7 15:55 /devices/pci@1f,0/isa@7/serial@0,3f8:a ; /bin/ls -l /devices/pci@1f,0/isa@7/serial@0,2e8:b crw-rw-rw- 1 root sys 37, 1 Apr 17 2002 /devices/pci@1f,0/isa@7/serial@0,2e8:b ; uname -a SunOS zamenhof 5.8 Generic_117350-02 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Blade-100 Axel. (confused)